For Meta or Verse

I, V, M. And not a competition to win or lose, but it's a feeling in which you care for someone more than yourself. Have a happy day. So Buddha said it in one of his earlier summons, so it's pretty profound.

And yeah, so I just love Buddha in that thing. Yeah. I don't know. I'm better than getting one but that don't actually mean it.

Yes. I think the profundities are getting more profound. More profound. The line between the joke part and the actual profundities.

It's getting like, learn. You're just getting so old that they're starting to feel like, yeah, like, I like, if this was the fourth, yeah, if this was episode 23 of Simplified, instead of 2.23, we would have made fun of that exam. But how do they go to coaching institute and all two of us, like, but now here we are contemplating. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's something or two. Yeah.

But, yeah. Yeah. Go, go. No, the incongruity of the image and the message is what sort of, you know, so, yeah, that that's so, you have something like this.

And it's a perfect and there are like a million inspirational quotes out there, all of the which makes sense. The thing is almost never do you read a quote, you appreciate it, but very rarely if ever do you change your life based on a quote. So it doesn't happen. So that's why these forwards are my lay hilarious.

That's not fair enough. So moving on from an actual profound profundity to moving on from meta to worse. So. Yeah.

First to meta from worst to meta. Yeah. Do you guys know what the algorithm that determines the forgiven set of sections provides a basis? Wow.

So I don't know. Okay. Fine. Basically, let me do that.

Do you guys know what the algorithm that determines the forgiven set of sections provides the basis for the model wide group of an electric surface. E tending to as well as is isomorphic to the projective line is called. Michael Andre. No, it's called the Cox sucker machine.

And please don't be bit out. It's C O X hyphen ZU C K like. Yeah. And why is this hilarious because these were two professors David, a Cox and Stephen Sucker who found each other.

And knew that they're like coming together will create something called Cox sucker and then they created something out of it. So lovely. Wow. This is brought to you from the wonderful Instagram handle depths of Wikipedia.

So. So moving on from Zucker to Zuckerberg, why we discussing meta versus because earlier this week, as we are recording on 7th of August, Mark Zuckerberg basically said that he wants to turn Facebook into a meta worse company. Right. So obviously we had to try and figure out what this is about.

Any of you know, I have heard about the meta was that what it's about. I mean, just expanding beyond physical, aging physical and virtual, that sort of thing. And he's been Facebook has been doing a lot of work in the VR space. I'm guessing this is a formalization of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much so it's about like convergence of physical existence in digital persona.

That's what the meta was. All those movies. Now we come reality. Yeah.

But also like accelerated massively by the pandemic. And so pretty much remote work or hybrid work or whatever you call it is here to stay. And now the actual discussion is not about, you know, if people will go back to offices. It's more about how can you engineer something like a virtual water cooler.

Right. So like the serendipitious conversations that happen in a workplace. Can you actually like have a model where it can be done digitally. Right.

So, and in a better manner because technically the water cooler conversation has the limit of physical presence. So only if you're in the same floor, do you run into people where as a virtual water cooler means you can basically have informal interactions with anyone like from the CEO to someone who's in the US or, you know, you're up or you in China for that matter. That's really where things are going for the future of work. But of course, nettowers has its first origins, probably in the gaming world.

Yeah. So, so this is actually a really interesting concept because I mean, it's the biggest conversation that's happening since the pandemic has happened and especially in fields like advertising where we've been having a lot of these discussions was. I mean, if you look at it from a net, technically all the jobs that we are doing, there are there is no real need, especially as to teach us. We don't need to be physically present at all.

But there are, like we said, these intangibles where you have those water cooler conversations and you are whatever. There was a bit more work that we put into this. It was all about a lot of life lessons actually come from situations you are, you find yourself in or are forced into unwilling. Right.

And is where all of this stuff comes in where there is no sometimes you need to just quickly have your lunch and you're stuck in one corner of the office and there is someone else over there and you end up having a conversation. If you were to be given at every point, we given a choice about where exactly you would rather be in this moment, You would choose those other situations and therefore not have those serenity pictures serenity pictures encounters in some way. So that becomes really interesting and conversely, what also happens is and a lot of organizations in this pandemic have tried to recreate that environment by saying, Oh, let's just do something calls where everyone's hanging out together. hanging out together similar to the metaverse argument, the meta was concept that you were discussing, but it rarely works.

So because even when you talk about a whatever conversation, there is it's a conversation is never between 20 people, a conversation is between maybe two people, three people or four people who are talking about one particular thing, right, the physical proximity brings a whole bunch of, I mean, it's about the way you're eating something, the way you're talking about something that sparks something else off. When that physical presence isn't there until we're able to digitize our entire self and wander in a space where we can actually have these interactions that feel like you're having a physical interaction. A level of these online interactions, they were quite will replicate that seremptitious interaction and so there is a there is a limit over there and when Zuckerberg says that we want to be a metaverse, I think there's a long way to go to realize that from my perspective. Yeah, but I think Zuckerberg is I think Facebook is beautifully placed to that.

He is at the forefront of it. Yeah, I think that segues beautifully into your research on this matter. Yeah, no, but speaking of right, basically he's talking about like a five to 10 year old who writes in there, Facebook is going to turn into a metaverse company, right. So one of his points was, I mean, even today you can spend a lot of time on the internet, but basically you're spending it on glowing rectangles, right, whether that's your phone or windows, right.

So his point was you're looking at the bits of faces on a screen and that's not how humans naturally interact and that's not how you process information. So technically, if you're in a physical meeting and you're sitting to my right, your voice comes to me from the right side or across the table and the view changes and stuff like that. So the obvious first thing, therefore, that would apply to this work and meeting context would be the virtual reality or hologram sense of meetings where you are no longer necessarily like physically in the same place, but you are technically in the metaverse in the same place. So that's one part of it.

I think when 9-11 happened, there was this thing about the biggest competition about flights is not, I mean, another airline company, it is Skype or something like that. So we've been discussing these things for the longest, but even before the work part, this has existed in some sensor form for a very long time. So the origin of the term metaverse is actually from a 1992 novel called Snow Crash. So basically there he proposes, I mean, he talks about urban environment developed along a single 100 meter road called a street that runs around the circumference of a planet, which is like 65,000 kilometers long.

And the point is that in that sort of world, all of it is basically virtual real estate, which is owned by obviously like a company. And then just like you buy physical real estate in the real world, you sort of can buy virtual worlds and basically exist in that entire sort of metaverse in itself. So that is the idea. And so it's about basically the convergence of basically existence and digital persona.

And you have seen this in certain gaming platforms, like Fortnite and Roblox, I think are the main ones, which I honestly have no idea about except for whatever, head up on this episode. But essentially, their funders that you get to have avatars, and there's also an economy that is there because how you appear in that game or in that space is important to you, therefore you spend money around it. And what has happened in the last couple of years is they actually have like real concerts. So a real sort of artist does a concert within Fortnite, which you can buy tickets to and attend virtually around that person, which is like the starting point.

So it's not just a game, but an entire sort of your persona and what you like and what you want to attend and stuff like that. Yeah, in fact, the trailer for Christopher Nolan's 10 it was actually premiered inside Fortnite. So a lot of things have happened. So it's more than it's become more than just a team.

So I don't think any of us here are game was saved, so similarly on Fortnite, the other thing was also I forget the name of the artist, but virtual concerts are becoming a big thing. A lot of the pop artists have done it. Some, I mean, you always hear reports of some metal band or something also doing their own sort of thing, not that this thing is a president. And a whole lot of other things have happened.

Like last year, for example, a lot of colleges recreated their colleges in Minecraft and did virtual graduation ceremonies and all that. And when I say virtual graduation, it's not like a Zoom call and just have the college first out in the background or something, but they've recreated the college and their little avatars are receiving the diplomas and all that. So a lot of these things are very cutely being recreated, but I think Zuckerberg's vision is really more than that. I think eventually the end goal to all this is when brain computing, interfacing also becomes a thing, we will all sit inside pods and our physical being will be somewhere, but our actual being will be somewhere.

I'm not necessarily convinced that that's a bad thing, but I think that's sort of like where all this seems to be going. Is that ready to hear what kind of. Yeah, it is exactly that. It is ready to hear one.

And that's definitely something that anyone listening to this interested in this meta was to either watch or read. Yeah, so we've basically at this point talking about like siloed meta versus like Fortnite is one, your work environment is another. But the metaverse technically is like the next internet, which means I mean, you connect to the internet through one device, then you can access multiple sites. The metaverse interoperability interoperability.

That's where it is. Okay, I think we'll come back after a break with more on the metaverse. It'll become a paravus. It feels like everyone's talking about two things right now, pickleball and podcast.

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And we just imagine a future of podcasts where instead of listening to us, you are in the same room as us. And you can't run away. Yeah, the only way to run away would be like the metrics you have to. So you have one life you can choose to.

I imagine a lot of people might actually like it's like I produced a bit. I would become like a virtual bouncer standing at the door like. I'm getting out. I'm getting out.

I'm getting out. I have a reverse club house, you know, so you have club. I'm going to reverse club. Like the other club.

Yeah, yeah. I love house. Yeah, but Tony, you have a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah.

So no, no, I mean, so we discussed about gaming where it's most naturally there. Of course, I used to be like second life, I think called, which was which did a lot of this. We spoke about work and basically the future of work or actually the present of work and the concept of infinite work, right? Because one of the things that's currently not working very well is these spontaneous conversations or innovations or actually just having the imaginary and transparency of communication because we are all, you know, working on rectangles and parts.

You really don't want to connect to beyond a certain point. But already this is applications elsewhere. Like fitness, for instance, we spoke about on our getting meta with getting meta episode about how like collaboration or, you know, working with certain people is very key to sustaining many things. And I would think like fitness is one of those things, right?

Where if you are sort of on the same path or journey with someone else and becomes a lot easier. So actually fitness as applications in this augmented reality format, right? Where you can take sessions with multiple other people and sort of be in the same spaces, them and do that as well. Yeah, not just that, but if you remember this device called the Microsoft Connect, which was a motion-insensing sort of thing.

So I've seen some version of that. There are some desktop games, for example, which are which uses the webcam to track you so that you can like burst bubbles and stuff. So it's some sort of fitness kind of game and I've seen virtual reality games where you actually have to jump and stuff like that. So I can imagine fitness actually benefiting greatly from the meta was you make it more fun.

So instead of just doing, you know, 100 jumping jacks in both piece, you're actually either on a trek or you're jumping to avoid sort of the sort of thing. So actually, I think it can, there are a lot of experiences that can be enhanced because of virtual reality and or. And one thing I want to say to me before before you move on, in case we don't discuss it again, is that whole thing about second life and all that, right? So some of these games have become so central to people's identity that they identify more with their virtual avatars more than the more than the character.

If that seems outlandish, I think there are I think we all know and ourselves have been guilty sometimes of letting our online personas dictate or be owned by other what we want to do more than this. So this is really cool where there is this game called choices, for example. It's a very silly game. All of you probably got to add sort of one point in time where you're in a certain social situation and you have to take a choice on whether to go on this date or not on the street or whatever.

Some of these people have so carefully maintained and built their avatars and reacting how their character would rather than how they would and they have virtual meetups of these characters and all that. And it's fascinating. Many of these people consider their physical bodies just to be a vessel whereas their real soul and all that is actually in their virtual avatar. It's incredible reading accounts of these things.

You find a lot of this obviously and stuff like that. Wow. Yeah. So actually, there's also lens too.

So a couple of years ago, we did a research on a lot of Gen Z and my week. My week means his company and not be a simplified simplify. My company and I did some research on Gen Z and we actually spoke to a whole bunch of gamers. There were a lot of gamers who were I mean, it was really particularly difficult to interview a lot of them because it became so clear about how uncomfortable they were in their real world.

What we was offered was meet space instead of yeah. So it's cyber space and. And we weren't getting very far with their idea with their conversation. So we actually brought in.

We actually got them to play with their friends while they were talking there and we literally talked to them inside the games. And that's where we actually got more like when they were playing PUBG. We actually got into their PUBG games and talked to them via chat. And only then they were radically different people.

They were open. They were not just like, and people assumed that, oh, the guys who are conservative, online, they go and start giving like, start abusing people and stuff. They were respectful. They were guiding.

They were trying to teach players who were kind of noobs to play better in some way or the other. Their entire facets of personality started opening up when they got in the game. But when they were out of it, they were just like quiet in the corner awkward, not very much. It's amazing because as a society, you would prefer the latter in some ways than the character form of your baby.

So actually the basis for the metaverse are already in place. And in fact, we also see this to some extent with the ready player one, referencing the movie where there's this one of the main characters or even his best friend who is a trans woman. And her identity is, her real life identity is really muted versus the online identity is a voice-stress person who's really expressive about all of these things. So the base of those identities with gaming with online expression are already in place.

To some extent, the building blocks are already there with a lot of the younger generation. I think the technology in fact needs to catch up to these abilities so that to kind of like really liberate them into that online world. Wow. It's almost like a fan of music.

Last class transform or a Fourier transform where sort of everything goes from the time domain to the frequency domain. Everything is very easy and then you come back to the time domain. So I don't know whether that analogy works for people who have suffered mechanical engineering. So two things there.

One is about the flattening of distances. It doesn't matter where you're physically. Second also about the social capital itself changing. It doesn't matter who you are in the physical world which is a pure accident of birth.

But in like these virtual worlds you basically get to be whoever you really want to be without the constraints of society. So that's actually a very liberating experience for a lot of people. Those are great. And I think what Zakobaga is saying is that it's not about getting people to spend more time on the internet.

It's about getting people to spend more time on the internet more naturally. And like Stikit said, the tech needs to catch up. And that is slightly where you can see Facebook's selfish reasons coming in. I mean, I'm not saying that in disparaging manner.

But it's great because currently if you look at Facebook or Instagram or WhatsApp, everyone's on it all the time. But what is their one hitch? Is that people access it through either an Apple device or an Android device? And the gatekeepers of the platform are these guys.

Whereas when we're talking about augmented reality or virtual reality kind of situation, it's likely that you'll connect to the metaverse through an Oculus or something like that, which Facebook owns and gate keeps to some extent. So this is probably why it's a great sort of pivot for them or evolution for Facebook. Plus, think of the new kinds of exciting ad formats you can see in the metaverse. I don't know if you guys saw this, but some, I forget which form is working on a technology where you see contextual product placements in videos.

So the original movie might have a Coke ad. You might end up seeing a Pepsi one or depending, like just think of this as banner ads, for example, within movies or something like that. So the movie that you see where the storyline and all that remains completely the same. I might see James Bond in one car, you might see completely on another depending on say browsing history or things like that.

And what you're saying Tony, like all that just takes it to an other level, the opportunities really become, I mean, opportunities to do so much more immersive sort of advertising. And that kind of, you know, when pro digital folks like us, we look at the opportunities that the digital medium offers versus print and radio. It's very easy to think that metaverse advertising and all that will make digital and what we think of as innovative and all that right now seem very, very outdated. Because the other way even YouTube is the two dimensional two and extended right now is the opposite to do three.

That's so much so if you work in advertising run because you're playing. All sorts of things. What is the metaverse strategy? For example, you know, PPD is coming up in three dimensional PowerPoint.

This is like fresh consultant. Yeah. Yeah. So they're already sort of doing this in sports arena, right?

Where you had those like painted ads on the ground. Yeah. Now, I mean, they can just be what you play. Where the thing is right?

And it seems like it's on the grass itself. Obviously, it depends on the broadcast and how will they do it, but that's possible. But I love how your mind first job to advertising. Yeah.

But from a designing and creator perspective, there's a lot to be done. So if you're creating a new world as the metaverse is, there is a lot of scope for people to design spaces where people hang out. And the creator economy in that sense is one thing that will see a huge boost. Yeah.

In fact, I was reading a report. I think it was by CTS that spoke about what the jobs of the future are going to look like and obviously many of them are fascinating. And one of them is virtual world architect. So it's not just for the metaverse, but even they're assuming that even workspaces or hybrid workspaces will either do a point where it's kind of interesting.

I feel it will be even more deeper. Like, I see once the concept peaks off, virtual world architect will be the equivalent of calling someone a scientist in today's game. What kind of scientists? What kind of virtual world are they?

So there might be some guy who just designs a making really good virtual grass. So he's like a virtual like terrain designer or another person is like a great virtual music designer or music designer or interior designer in some way. I'm already excited about this. If you take a step back, it's just amazing to think that all in 1930s, you've had companies that were struggling to get electricity into their homes and offices and essentially later, which is when I guess a lot of this was mature by 2030.

We are already thinking of making the physical body redundant and all of us are going to be living on the cloud or whatever. There is one dark thing. So in the real world, so if I'm bullying someone or someone bullying me, people can see evidence of that. And in like, you know, someone's really hitting me and I'll bruise and I know someone last week, why have you bruised and said this person hit me here.

I'm talking about kids. Okay. And in a multi-verse, there will be no evidence of that. So that's going to be a.

Actually different. You will have documented evidence of it. Technically, you will have. Yeah, it's sure.

Most of these sort of spaces, I don't know whether the way you're interacting, whether all of it is recorded. Yeah, maybe it is. No, but the worry that you have is actually points or something larger. Like you're worried about people hacking into our rectangle.

Our growing rectangles is one of you said, nothing about hacking into a metaverse or something like that, which is. I mean, hacking into your character. Yeah. So this is, you know, you have a self image.

Yeah. You have a self image and I can destroy you by destroying your self image. And if that happens, I don't know, maybe kids are easier to. Yeah.

If I make a prediction, I think a lot of this meta was high thing and all that will peak in the 30s. And then there will be this move back to the world as there always is like how we are finding bindal and all that sort of cool right now. I think back in like I think in 2015, we look a lot closer to 2010 2020 than a sci-fi Jetsons like future. So from what you said, one of the things that is actually there in all these kinds of metaverse is that there is obviously a gender skew and, you know, the basically liberated selves means that women don't necessarily have the same experience of these virtual world system and so on.

So, I mean, definitely there are going to be darker areas and how do you regulate and how does it get built when Facebook itself is being criticized for the existing version of what it is created. So those parts will definitely be there. Right. But think of when we spoke of the creators and designers, it also points to a different kind of economy.

Right. So we spoke of in the past, we've spoken about NFTs, blockchains, cryptocurrencies without really seeing where is the damn, you know, use of this thing. Right. So, you know, in your own workspace and you have an NFT of the, I don't know, my friendship canceled me when you haven't displayed on your wall, right?

Or I want to work in the space created by you and I sort of pay you a certain amount to do that or by real estate, etc. So it's going to be a completely different economy from multiple parts. One is to say that it doesn't matter where you're located. And Zuckerberg also talks about how there is scientific evidence of the zip code you're born in determining the amount of money you will make when you're 40 or 50 or something.

Right. That changes. And also the currency itself changes now. Right.

So many of these use cryptocurrency, but also like, there are things that actually just sell converted real estate from the physical world into virtual world, which take credit cards as well. So it's like the opportunity is fairly massive even from an economy standpoint. Yeah. It's kind of interesting.

I don't know, like, especially, I don't know what we get. Suppose, sapiens was being written updated rather than say, 2000 or whatever. I mean, where does this whole metaverse and that sort of thing feature on the, you know, on the scale of things right now? Obviously, you'll talk about the dangers of saying nothing and all that.

But how do you think this fits into, you know, human history overall in the perspective of, okay, the language was invented just about 50,000 years ago, printing press was invented just whatever 200 years ago, the Internet was created just 50 years ago, like that rapid acceleration. Yeah. So in fact, you all know, does address this not in sapiens, but in tears. Correct.

And where he does, I mean, the whole, I mean, how you reconcile with technologies as such is, I mean, he talks about it as in three terms, right? And this actually ties a little bit to our previous episode about China, where we were talking about the physical versus the metaphysical in something that there is the need for physical infrastructure. And once we set the physical infrastructure in place, transitioning ourselves to an online world would also so far what systems of control exist is to control our bodies, our physical bodies are controlled in a certain way, restricting us what to do. But if existence and so far online existence is just limited to thoughts and words and not physical presence online, like we don't live online.

I mean, we spend a lot of time there, but we are still restricted to our physical locations. But if our existence starts moving online, it will immediately mean governments will need to start exercising more control to that sphere. And it'll also be graded in some way where more advanced economies will develop systems of controlling and would actually prefer their audiences being online because they might develop systems that are told over there. But I can almost imagine like a situation in our country itself where people start a lot of people start living online and the government is not able to reconcile our drive systems of controlling that online space and literally have people snatched from their odds because they are doing something online and there's like not a government literally pulling the plug physically pulling the plug on the person in some way so that they can't participate in that online.

So there's a whole radiation of compatibility that comes from the very first thing that needs to be done just like in Maslow's hierarchy. The very first thing that needs to be done is to ensure physical security of the person who's trying to ensure the trying to go online because at the end of the day it does come from the physical D. So that physical security needs to be established and only then can you start talking about anything beyond that. And the other thing also that when we're talking about living the world on the line, we are still using resources from an offline world to transition our life online.

We're still going to be using electricity which is generated by some energy source. We're still going to be using silicon and materials and screens and all these kinds of things which are all created in the physical world. So completely transitioning our life online without focusing on the means of production and whoever controls the means of those production who's handing your data from who's handing your server from who's producing all these materials. Are going to get increased control over what the world is going to look like in the future.

Yeah, because your point is basically no matter how involved the matter was, there is still a physical limitation somewhere which I think really is the underpinning of a lot of this sort of sci-fi. No matter how here it gets exactly the same thing that you're doing, this is something not to be sci-fi. If you really want to get mind-bendy about this weekend, take it on 11 and say that in a few years, consciousness itself will get dissociated from this physical presence which at the end of the day is just a vessel for who we really are and show you that none of us are intoxicated. We are talking about all this but this is one of those conversations you can then have.

If you can separate consciousness and the true soul being all that sort of thing from the soul. To get liberated from your physical body. And then who knows what your virtual author will be? He doesn't need to leave the vibrant form.

These things will see so exist. And in which case there, so because the thing is human history, the core of existence and consciousness is humans need to control and humans fundamentally need to collaborate. And collaboration also leads to a level of control and hierarchy. And hierarchy needs to enforce its control from time to time otherwise it's easy to exist.

And in which case when we move to this world, we don't know how that control will come. It depends on how sophisticated the hierarchy is. I have one last question to ask Tony as the parent of somebody who is still in single digits. How does what she is studying right now for instance, prepare her for a world like this.

While there is some inevitability that we will live in, some parts of us will live and work in the matters. For me, the scariest part is not that kids have to be in that world. I think that's inevitably but that the education system right now is completely in equipped to or unequipped to for these kids to deal with what is coming. I've shown you thought about this a lot.

So, I mean, not really, but also like we grew up in practically a pre-internet era and then like they are actually growing up in an internet world. So, I'm not too worried about kids figuring it out. It's more going to be how we deal with it as like parents of caregivers. Like right now, even now, I mean, this is again probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but lots of people think that reading books are great watching.

I mean, it used to be maybe 50 years ago. Now, there are several ways in which you can get your information and get it more authentically rather than just a two-dimensional flat page. Of course, there is great value in that, but what you get on a curated channel or Netflix or YouTube or even virtual worlds is going to be much, much better than a book experience merely. So, and I see the greater pushback coming from educators and parents and caregivers rather than kids themselves who will just figure it out.

But then the real question becomes like what Narayan spoke of in terms of the safety and stuff like that. So, even now with these, even with YouTube, you're always worried about what kids are watching and you have really no way of sort of being in complete control. And that's something that we'll have to deal with. We are dealing with, it'll just be in a much different form.

No, and that really is my worry. See, if kids were left with themselves, they figured this out for themselves. The problem is there's society and then entire structure that is telling them, like, for example, don't go online completely. Everything that you see online is evil or you have to do these three, four, five, six, and kids will rebel and then they'll find out the bad things or whatever.

Their infact education should be locked and stepped with how technology is evolving so that they can actually sit them down in early agencies or these are the first to go to not go to this or this and all that. But maybe that's too much to ask for. I'm saying in some sense, this has already happened generation on generation. Three, four generations ago, you grew up in the same village, you met people from there, you shared the same religious, political beliefs, cultural beliefs, etc.

The next generation after a while, kids started going out to cities and got there and then you got back home parents were like, you know, what are you doing, not praying or not doing this or that. What is this haircut, for instance, right? And in the next generation, people went online and started talking to and having cultural exchanges with people from completely different job reviews and stuff like that and started speaking like that. The lingo and the language change, although you're physically here.

And now in this generation, it'll just go to the next level. I think we've always figured it out. We'll continue to be just as a parent. My only hope is that I don't inflict too much damage.

If there comes a situation where my child is hurt, I can be there for her. I think that's about it. I think it's a nice profound note. Yeah, actually, sorry.

I just want to cover one last thing, which is about how do we create a metaverse, right? Because currently we talked about extremely siloed things and are there like standards to creating a metaverse like the Internet XS, like W3C standards and stuff like that. So two key principles of the metaverse is going to be interoperability, which is to say different systems can pick up your speak to each other and exchange data. So like an identity interoperability would be that your defined identity in the metaverse gets carried across various places that you go to.

And the other one is about portability to say, okay, in the metaverse, I'm working in this workstation of mine. Now I just want to immediately teleported to the comedy show that's happening, I know, miles down the line in the virtual world. So far, idea of traveling fast, the imagination or the limitation of the imagination was around something like hyperloop, where you could travel really fast. But now with this, basically teleporting is really a reality.

So actually there is multiple standards that are evolving, but I guess the most important one is probably the virtual world's standards for systems virtual components, which the IEEE is running. So it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out because unless and until there is one sort of world that wins out, everyone will be trying to create their own competing. Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah, I think that's what we need to see. Basically, I think Facebook, Microsoft, all of these guys are in a consortium called XR consortium or something to build out the metaverse and I guess 10 years down the line on simplified episode 1000. We'll see how this turned out. Our first metaverse recording will be about the metaverse looking back at episode 223.

Lovely. I think that's a wonderful way to end this. So now in. Yeah.

So yeah, that was. Totally. Yeah. So stay safe, stay meta and stay simplified.

Use that to episodes back. But I will see you guys and see you in the metaverse.