Hi, it's Kate Snow and BC News anchor, host of the podcast The Drink. This month I'm grabbing a matcha latte with comedian Taylor Tonlinson. The drink is always about someone's journey to the top and Taylor's story is remarkable. She tells us all about her unlikely path, from performing in churches, all the way to headlining her own Netflix specials, like her latest, prodigal daughter.
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Hey, I'm just trying not to screw my own kids up, I'm not giving you advice on how much screw yourself. There's a parent chat on YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. If it's Wednesday, it's 4k and it's lashing out at each other, 40 points behind the front runner at just 40 days to Iowa. It's the fourth presidential debate, the fourth down of the battle for the Republican presidential nomination.
This is the Meet the Press special, live from Washington. Here's Kristen Welker. Welcome to Meet the Press special coverage of the fourth Republican presidential debate. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington.
Tonight, four Republican presidential candidates start on stage in what could be the final primary debate before voting begins next month. Over the last two hours, the action on this age in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, playing out once again without the field's front runner, Donald Trump. The former president has skipped every debate so far while weathering criminal indictments, fraud charges, trials, and pushback against inflammatory campaign rhetoric and threats of political retribution. But with the candidates about to walk off the stage tonight, the reality inside the Republican party and in these debate halls has been undeniable.
Donald Trump is running away with the nomination and the remaining candidates are running out of time. It was a night of personal insults and animosity with most of the fields fired to wreck it at each other, not the front runner. Instead, the night began with a rapid fire series of attacks aimed at the rising candidacy of former UN ambassador Nikki Haley. You have other candidates up here like Nikki Haley.
She caves anytime the left comes after her. Anytime the media comes after her. I just ask you, if you're somebody that's going to be the president of the United States and you can't stand up against child abuse, how are you going to be able to stand up for anything? I never said that.
That is the truth. Nikki, you were bankrupt when you left the UN. Where you left the UN, you became a military contractor, you actually started joining service on the board of Boeing who's back, you scratched for a very long time and then gave foreign multinational speeches like Hillary Clinton is. And now you're a multi-millionaire.
That math does not add up. I love all the attention fellas. Thank you for that. Well, Haley had the biggest target on her back of the candidates on stage with some of the most extreme attacks from Vivek Rama Swami who Haley dismissed as some following his personal attacks at the last debate.
And tonight there were more fireworks. Nikki is corrupt. This is a woman who will save her kids the guy so she can buy a bigger house. This is the problem.
The reason I give any politics more effectively than Kamala Harris and second time the double standards of people in this country are two having two ex chromosomes does not even actually represent them. Okay, thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.
Governor Haley, would you like to respond? No. It's not worth my time to respond to him. Rare moment where a candidate declined to respond there.
Well, those were just a couple of the more wild lines from Rama Swami who repeated a number of conspiracy theories on the debate stage. It was also a night of obvious urgency for former New Jersey governor Chris Christie. He had struggled to gain traction even among primary voters skeptical of the front runner tonight. He unloaded.
We've had these three acting as if the race is between the four of us. The fifth guy who doesn't have the guts to show up and stand here, he's the one who has just put him his way ahead in the polls. And yet I've got these three guys who are all seemingly to compete with Voldemort. He shall not be named.
They don't want to talk about it. The fact is that when you go and you say the truth about somebody who is a dictator, a bully who has taken shots at everybody, whether they've given him great service or not over time, who dares to disagree with him. And I understand why the three or two are saying anything about it. The fact of the matter is the truth needs to be told.
I'm in this race because the truth needs to be spoken. He is unfit. Now, apart from Chris Christie, the other candidates on stage had some policy critiques of former president Trump's time in office. But direct confrontation of his candidacy was pretty rare.
Here's Christie's attempt to press for the governor, Ron DeSantis, to answer a question about Trump's fitness for office. Do you think he's going to fit? I think we need to have somebody younger. I think when you get up to 80, I don't think it's a job for that.
I think it's just the answer. The question was very direct. Is he fit to be president or isn't he? The rest of the speech is interesting, but completely non-responsive.
And if we were in a courtroom, they'd strike the answer and say, governor DeSantis. No, they were smart. They would strike the answer because you're not answering. You did say you have a fan.
You have a fan. No, I don't know my thing. We don't. He's the thing.
We do not want to do something about 80 years old. You don't want to be 80 years old. You don't want to be 80 years old. I'm just thinking about it.
I'm just thinking about it. We should not nominate somebody who's almost 80 years old. He's afraid to answer. No, not.
He's either you're afraid or you're not listening. No, it's not. You don't want to be a president. No, you can hear that.
No, I can't hear you. You can't hear you. You can hear me. Look, I'm a simple guy.
Okay? I hear the question and I answer it. Is he fit or is it he? I can see you're fit, Ron.
You're a new generation. He's fit. And this is the problem with my three colleagues. They're afraid to offend.
So big picture of what we saw on stage tonight, the attacks, the deflection, the large-scale ignoring of Donald Trump's candidacy was an apt reflection of the state of this primary. Our NBC News team has every single angle of the Republican primary cover tonight. tonight, we've got reporters in the debate spin room and on the campaign trail talking to voters. We'll speak with top campaign officials about how their candidates performed on stage.
And we have got the best of the best panel here. So let's get it all started with MBC's Garrett Hake in the spin room. Garrett, what were your biggest takeaways a lot of fireworks tonight? They really work with some, but I think there were really two major storylines here.
The first is Nikki Haley. If you were to land from Mars in the middle of this debate right now and just or this race right now and just watch what happened on this debate stage, you would come away with the impression that Nikki Haley has been the dominant front runner in this race the way she was attacked by every other candidate. Now I do think Haley has proven herself to be a deaf debater. She had kind of quippy one liners and the ability to dismiss a lot of the attacks against her even when she chose not to engage with the Vigrama soami and his sign towards the end of the debate, but she wasn't as able to talk about her own record and her own plans and policies as she has been in other debates because she was so much put on her back foot over everything from her donors to her policies on transgender students and the list goes on.
But then there was the Chris Christie storyline here and boy if Chris Christie just barely qualified for this debate on literally the last day and what a different debate it would have been had he not been here on the debate stage tonight because he dragged this debate back to earth the actual planet we've been running this campaign on where Donald Trump is the dominant front runner and Christie is going to have a very difficult time winning this Republican nomination for a myriad of reasons but what he did on the stage tonight was remind everyone why the other candidates on this stage will also have a different time their refusal to grapple with Donald Trump and the hold he has on this party. A lot of folks expected to see this version of Chris Christie from the jump in this campaign but he brought an older version of Chris Christie to the debate stage tonight really forcing these candidates to engage with reality here. They reminded me of the 2016 debate when he essentially took out Marco Rubio we saw some of that here from Christie tonight especially in that exchange with Rhonda Santis. Garrett this is why you're so good.
Mars versus Earth it is a really great way to narrow it down it really is and it brings us back to the central question did anyone have a breakout moment enough to change the dynamics of course you can't answer that there in the spin room tonight Vivek Rama Swami sure tried to again and again but I'm curious for your take because he has run as the political outsider the younger version of Trump if you will it doesn't seem like his attacks are landing in the same way that they did during the first debate when actually he got a fair amount of applause seem like he got a fair amount of booze tonight Garrett. Yeah I think that's right I think Republican voters are getting used to the Rama Swami stick here I mean he's essentially a walking meme on the campaign trail he certainly does speak to a significant element of the Republican party but it seems to me like if he is not your flavor there's nothing you saw tonight that you haven't seen in another debate that would suddenly turn you on to Rama Swami. All right Garrett hey thank you so much for your great analysis and reporting as always we really appreciate it. MBC News correspondent Priscilla Thompson watched tonight's debate with a group of voters in Des Moines Iowa where we are just let us remind everyone 40 days out from the first in the nation's caucuses Priscilla thanks so much for being here so what are the voters saying what are they telling you who won tonight in their perspective?
Yeah yeah Chris and the countdown to the caucus is on and we've got a room full of voters you asked that question too so first let me just ask show of hands did anyone did this debate change anything for anybody? No so people are pretty dug in with their candidates here and I want to start first with Angela because this is your first time watching the debate you are a Trump supporter and so I want to know what did you think of what you saw tonight? I thought there are a lot of fireworks going on it's interesting to watch the candidates interact and Trump is still the winner. Trump is still the winner why I like the policies I like my retirement fund build the border drill baby drill the America's future is very bright under Trump's leadership and Angela found herself sitting next to JP who is a Nikki Haley supporter I noticed you all having some conversation during the debate what did you think of Nikki Haley's performance tonight?
I think Nikki is phenomenal um for a lot of reasons I love her in international experience I love her state governorship and the way she just holds herself I am not I supported Trump in the beginning I did not vote for him the second time because I know Trump sends way prior to the presidency 2004 and I did not like how he wasn't able to transition Nikki is a right person on the international stage and when she had her position at the UN she was highly respected and I just think she's a right person during this time with what's going on in the world to lead both on the international and the local level. And I want to move through the room a little bit this way Kristen because I talked to this corner of folks who are also Nikki Haley supporters and you told me that you think Trump's lead in the polls is not accurate that Nikki Haley could potentially chip away at some of that tell me about that. I have talked to a lot of former Trump supporters that like the gentleman just said it just seems like that his lead is too big to be real it just seems like artificial and all of you who told me you're supporting Nikki Haley so tell me a little bit about why why for you all why she your candidate I like to probably since the beginning but it's just growing stronger over the last few months I've been listening to her speak about four different events I like her experience as governor and with that leads her lens to the presidency so that she can get our economy under control of the silver economic experience and then being the UN ambassador she's been experienced for you know national relations and I just love her passion for her family and I just think she would be a fantastic leader. Yeah what we need and I want to thank her for being performance.
This wasn't the best of the board I think they attacked her because I think they understand that she is this far as those four go I think she's the one that has the potential to win the popular vote and bring the house to the congress to the Republican party the other one time. Yeah well thank you and Kristen I will leave it there this is what the voters and I will are saying tonight Kristen. Kristen it's such a fascinating conversation thank you so much to you and to all of the participants there in Des Moines. What do you mean now on set is MDC News Chief Political Analyst Chuck Tuck.
Chuck great to see you. Well thank you for being here so let's start right where they left off which is Nikki Haley. She was getting it from all sides tonight not a surprise do you think she gave as good as she got? Look at this was not her I mean I thought they left her of support or say it I'll quote the supporter I thought the same thing I thought she said better nights.
Yeah she was very much undersea she was you know I think the previous debate she was the aggressor right she was out there she had to make room for herself she had to go get herself into the top tier right she is top tier now and it's all been about her the last couple of weeks and the money stuff is just tough to respond to right. How do you have a problem with the problem? I don't think it's a huge problem yeah but it's an embarrassing thing I'm told you right you're taking you know the read off and money it isn't easy to defend and you can say she was struggling to say well you're just jealous that I'm getting this which by the way she's right like her that's all there's that about it but the fact is it's never a popular thing to be getting donations from billionaires right whether you're in a Democratic primary or a Republican primary so I do think she had a rough night but look part of it is this is a big promise for me guy. It's pretty clear he's not a serious candidate for president if you now look at how he's behaved it's very tactical right he is all about trying to find a way to almost hijack the debate in some form try to do it to the NBC debate try to do it at the beginning of this day try to do it at the beginning of the first box debate did it that way this is what he does and it's amazing perhaps it's going to battle I have no evidence but it seems that he is able to hijack and attack the person Trump would like to see fail the most and he just comes across like Trump's best asset on that stage ancient every time and then when he goes with his loony conspiracy theories what do they do they fit right into what Trump's trying to do so he's really an impediment I think for both the Santas and Nikki Haley like there's a point here you got to deal with a troll when they were present but he's such an impediment at these debates that you cannot break through because of his nonsense what's interesting tonight and I feel like we've witnessed this with each debate it seems like he gets more and more booze I don't think that matters right that's why you're sitting here his behavior is illogical unless he's doing it on behalf of somebody else because it makes he is you're absolutely right he's more popular every time his numbers have been going down not up you do wonder at one point or anybody physically gonna attack the guy on stage and I'm talking about I'm only half getting on that but that is what makes it like what are you doing because everything you're doing is pushing people away from you but you are rattling those opponents of Trump so it benefits Trump that's why you sit here you have to ask yourself is he serious about rank for president or is he just trying to be a Trump surrogate right well and you take me on an ex-point which is it led to this fascinating moment of Chris Christie defending Nikki Haley which no one saw coming but we're watching and saying could he could Christie be looking at potentially endorsing Nikki Haley down and make of that okay I mean I look at it's like if Christie isn't ready to potentially show that he's willing to support the same as alternative to Trump then he's not being honest about his own candidacy right what is his candidacy about he's not he knows he's not running running the win the nomination because he's running a Wednesday campaign but he is running to try to to weaken Donald Trump and if Nikki Haley finished a second in Iowa I assume Christie dropped out that interesting because if he doesn't then he actually only serves to help Trump because it would actually slow down Nikki Haley and I do think assuming this is the scenario that we're starting to see play out we'll look at this debate that moment will be seen as oh yeah this is when and I don't know if this is good for Haley or not because it may define her too much outside of the Trump wing of the party and I know there's only so much room to grow up on that swing over yeah it's hard to see how you win the nomination without winning over some of those voters right Chuck let me ask you about Ron DeSantis this was a really critical night for him because he's trying to gain back some of the momentum that he's been losing he kind of missed the opportunity or deflected the opportunity to directly go after Trump not surprisingly a number of times there were some critiques in there but not like what he could have done he's but he's he believes his path to victory is winning over Trump supporters yeah and he's probably right I don't think he's going to get there but he's probably right and you this has been the trap of running for president in that Trump's got all these votes you can't you got to go after Trump to dislodge him from his voters but how you go after him you got look he's tried it he can't serve two terms nobody's paying attention to that right but he's trying that oh he's going to be older than what Joe Biden was you know he's trying all these indirect bank shots and I just the voter hasn't gone on to it Ron DeSantis would be in a much better position if Joe Biden were leading Donald Trump by 10 points in the general election polls yeah that's Rhonda if Rhonda Santas once I win this primary he needs to hope Joe Biden's approval rating goes up 10 points overnight before the eye because that was his big argument that was his big argument that we're getting back right now Trump looks electable which means these four don't really have a case yeah great Chuck thank you so much appreciate it great to get all of your late night for me late night that's the time you know stay up this night oh you're going to be bored oh Chuck you're not going to be so busy thank you for being here coming up we'll hear directly from the Rhonda Santas and Nikki Haley campaigns on what's next for the two rivals after an explosive night of attacks you're watching me the press special coverage of the fourth Republican primary debate state with us up comedian Nikki Glaser to talk about the long career grind that has brought her to this starring moment hosting the Golden Globes killing at the time Brady Rose and now with another hit special on Hulu you can get our conversation now for Greek or every download your podcasts as they wrap up suck at this scoop on what's been happening with here's the scoop a new podcast from NBC News with me your host Gazzam to Sugium we'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News's trusted journalist it's a fresh take that's sharp thoughtful hands informative bringing closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world on the front page the zeitgeist here's the scoop listen daily on Amazon music I want you all to kind of picture in your mind's election day you'll all be heading to the polls to vote and that's something that Donald Trump will not be able to do because he will be convicted of felonies before then and his right to vote will be taken away you know you know look welcome back that was from a New Jersey governor Chris Christie being booed by the conservative primary crowd in a reminder of the former president's popularity and front-runner status so the question can anyone catch him without time running out joining me now is to stand this campaign manager James Outhmeyer thank you so much for joining me really appreciate it thanks for having me so as I just said time is running out governor de santis hoping to break some of the momentum that Nikki Haley has had we certainly saw a lot of attacks in her direction do you think he did what he needed to do tonight to regain that spot is second place to Trump ronda santis did exactly what he had to do tonight he showed up he's a fighter we know that but he's a fighter and he wins this is yet another debate victory for him and for him he wins not just because he's strong and principled he doesn't waver and give different answers based on what state or audience he's visiting what day the week it is he is principled he sticks to his guns and then he has the record of results he has accomplished everything in florida he ever said he would do from school choice to protecting women in the bathroom protecting children from mutilating surgeries minors that are gonna you know suffer from child abuse he has done everything he's made florida the number one state economy and he has proven that he's got what it takes to go lead this country and get the job done we noticed there were a couple of moments where he declined to directly take aim at the front-runner former president Trump he was critical but for example when he was asked if the former president is mentally fit to serve over and over again he said we need to find someone younger we saw a similar approach when he was dealing with the border do you think he missed the opportunity to go at the front-runner more aggressively as we have seen chris christido no look i think he answered the question some might just not have liked the answer he gave does donald trump have cognitive function yes he does but i think the governor was very clear that the country needs a leader who's not going up into the 80s who's not lost a step and one thing is clear donald trump is not the you know not the same guy he was four or six years ago he has definitely lost a step the governor said we need a leader who will spit nails who will fight our enemies and who will get the job done a new american leader a younger person and he's proven that he can do what what needs to be done but james respectively i mean you were just more direct that we heard from the governor tonight on the debate stage he didn't say what you just said he said we need to have somebody younger i think when you get up to 80 i don't think it's a job for that he chose his words very carefully and i guess the question is just taking a step back when is he gonna take the gloves off is it getting too late no look he is taking the gloves off he's pointing out the failures of the former president he's flipped a flop on many issues i mean he recently paraded around a blm endorsement the very same blm that was burning down the streets and cities of our country um so he's changed he's not the same guy i think the american public are you know they're frustrated that you know he did shut much of the country down he refused to fire fauci he refused to fire christopher ray and he did he was not fiscally responsible he led to over seven trillion to the national deficit so the governor's pointed out policy differences he doesn't get into the personal attacks and he's all about going out and talking about his vision for the future and he was the only candidate on that stage the only strong conservative that pointed out with the vision that also backed it up with all of his many accomplishments in florida everything he has ever promised he would do he did and then some no other candidate could do that especially niki haley who essentially fell off the stage tonight it was a very bad night for her um her inaction in south carolina is what was highlighted where governor santa stepped in and made it illegal for china to purchase land in florida niki haley gave away half of her state she's even caught on tape saying she worked for china when it came to protecting kids against mutilating transgender surgeries ronda santis made that unlawful niki haley no she says government needs to stay out of the way well she's of course rejected all of those characterizations you've just laid out that she worked for china and everything else but let me ask you big picture let me ask you about let me ask you about aiawa because obviously governor santa's has gotten the endorsement of governor kim Reynolds as well as evangelical leader bob bander plax but if he does not come in second place can he continue in this race or does he need to seriously consider dropping out ronda santis is going to win aia he's got the endorsement kim Reynolds which is not just a stamp of approval she's going around the state explaining to everybody why he is the best man for the job she's very well liked she has a lot of credibility with the caucus goers and we're saying a lot of success there ronda santis has over 42 legislative endorsements he's got the grassroots support more than twice any other candidate in the race over a hundred faith leaders sharing his campaign in the state he has 99 county chairs and just completed a visit to every single one of the 99 counties his rooms are packed for his speeches he has over 30 000 signed caucus commit cards the energy in that state is strong we're going to spend a lot of time there and he is going to win that state all right jesus mire thank you so much for joining me really appreciate it i know it's a late night there and joining me now is my panel for tonight any welter editor in chief of the political report hue hue hue it host of the hue hue hue it show and matt gorman republican strategist and former senior advisor to senator tim stocks presidential campaign thanks so much to all of you for saying of late with us really appreciate it a me let me start with you your reaction to what we just heard from the disantis campaign and i put the same question to you that i put to james did governor disantis do anything to blunt nicky haley's momentum tonight there certainly were a lot of attacks in her direction there were and i think that disantis especially in the second half of the debate did seem more stable he seemed stronger more directed than we have seen him in previous debates.
So that was probably that second half of the debate was probably the best he has been thus far. And at the same time, I don't think he derailed her. If we think back to other debates where a candidate who looked like they were surging and then got attacked and it took them out of the game, this was not that like the Rubio and Chris Christie situation or Bloomberg getting eviscerated by Elizabeth Warren in 2020 on the debate stage. So did he get himself into a better place, maybe stopping a slide or the constant stories about how challenging his campaign has been?
Maybe. But I don't know that it's enough to take Nikki Haley out of the gig. And by the way, that's just step one. The second step to that, Hugh, would be catching up to Nikki Haley and overtaking Trump.
And it doesn't seem like any of the candidates do that tonight. But Nikki Haley, I mean, she was just attacked from all sides. It's not a surprise. But how do you think she handled it?
Well, I thought she handled it very well. And she clearly got all the arrows. So she clearly has got all the momentum. I think Chris Christie is at Pete Chris Christie right now.
And that Pete Christie, if you're going to sell, sell now. So before New Hampshire, I expect the former governor to endorse the former ambassador. And the key thing here is to gather to Santas alienate Nikki Haley voters. Because if he does win Iowa and does want to get those Haley voters after the fact, did they come to him or they mad at him after?
Because there are really only two people out in this race for second place. The Santas and Haley and which one of those comes out of New Hampshire after tonight, I would guess it's Nikki Haley. I could be wrong. It could go either way.
Because he's well ahead in Iowa. But I thought she held her ground the person who lost. I think Paul all agree on the person who lost. Best line of the night goes to Ambassador Haley.
I don't need to answer that. I don't think we've ever heard that. No. I don't need to respond.
I don't need to respond. Mac Overn, what do you think? What was your take? And did Nikki Haley do what she needed to do to deflect all of the incoming that was coming her way?
To an extent, what I was very focused on tonight was she gonna be dismissive of most attacks. Was she gonna try and rebut a lot of the attacks? She did a very good job in passabats. You all remember, she was extremely good at wielding the Oppo book and cutting people down as they try to go after her.
To Santas had some very effective moments with her tonight, particularly on the transgender issue, but also Chinese scored some points with that. And I think to Amy's point, as the debate went on, he got more comfortable. But also, I think as these have been going on, he's been getting better at his back from showing improvement. Now, look, I think to your point also, Amy, he studied himself.
Most of the incoming, he's gotten from his super pack in terms of negative story. So I think he studied that. In terms of Nikki Haley, we're talking about five to seven points of change. Maybe it does a little bit.
I don't think it's time. Yeah, that's such a good point too. That so much of the challenge for Ron DeSantis is coming from inside the house, right? It is the super pack that was built up to support him is collapsing and all of the drama around that is wing that can't be a big harbinger of things to come.
I want to pause the conversation momentarily, because I want to get to Olivia Perez-Cubus, a spokesperson for the Nikki Haley campaign. Thank you so much for joining us for staying up late with us. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
So I don't know if you can hear our conversation here, Olivia, but we are talking about the fact that Ambassador Haley got a lot of incoming tonight. She was getting it from all of the other candidates. She clearly came prepared for that. Are you confident that she is leaving this debate tonight, having defended every attack that came her way?
Absolutely. And look, I think anyone who's been paying attention to this race for the past several weeks will not be surprised by the fact that every single person on that debate's age went after Nikki and attacked her and it is for one reason and one reason alone. And it is because she is winning. Nikki Haley is a threat to all of them.
She is the only candidate on that debate stage who is on the rise to any sort of momentum. She is now in second place in all three early states, second place in Iowa, second place in New Hampshire, and second place in South Carolina. This race is consolidating. It is consolidating very quickly and Nikki is benefiting from that consolidation.
So we're going to head into Iowa in these next few weeks. She's in a strong position and on the other hand you've got Ron DeSantis who has literally spent over $100 million in Iowa. He has put all of his eggs in the Iowa basket and at this point he's got absolutely nothing to show for it except a drop in the polls. His polls are half of what they used to be and Nikki is in second place.
So we're excited we're building off of the momentum and we feel good. We did talk to one of her supporters tonight who said he felt of all of the debates. This wasn't necessarily her strongest that she seemed to lose some momentum in the second half. How do you respond to her supporters who may be a little bit concerned after tonight?
Not at all. I totally disagree. Like I mean the arrows were after her. She defended herself.
She defended her record. I think you have to remember three months ago Nikki was underestimated. She's been criticized. She's been attacked for her name, her gender, her religion.
You name it. She has been belittled. And now here she is in second place and a threat to all the fellas on the stage. So I would say watch out because you're going to see more of her.
One of the attacks that we saw her taking from Governor DeSantis was about the donations that she has been getting. She defended that. She said you're just jealous you're not getting these big dollar donations. But is there any concern that that might not resonate with the Republican base with the caucus followers in Iowa, the voters in New Hampshire who she needs to win over?
Look I will channel Nikki. I think she said it best. He's attacking her because he's jealous. Be very clear that he saw all of those donors.
They were once his donors and they left him because his campaign is flailing. I'll also point out that Nikki just won the backing of the largest conservative grassroots apparatus in this country, AFD. She won this endorsement because she is the strongest candidate to beat both Trump and Biden. She won that endorsement because she's a tried and she's conservative.
She has a solid economic plan. This organization wants to expand freedom, limit government. That's the kind of conservative that Nikki is and that's the kind of president that voters are going to get. Is it fair to say she will likely be in the race through South Carolina but a South Carolina make a break for Ambassador Haley?
She is going to do as well. She can in Iowa. She's now in second place. The field will consolidate after Iowa.
She goes into New Hampshire where she is now in a solid second in double digits. She's going to do as well. She can in New Hampshire. The field will consolidate.
So we feel pretty confident that comes out through line. It's going to be a head to head between her and Donald Trump. As you know, she enters South Carolina. Her home state voters know her.
They love her. They have taken a chance on her before not once but twice and we feel good about it. All right Olivia Perez-Cubus, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me. And coming up, I can't paint surrogate for the Ramaswani campaign towards me after another fiery night with his rivals. Don't go anywhere. You're watching me the press special coverage of the fourth Republican primary debate.
We're marching towards fascism under Biden. Jack Smith, this is her. He never last retweeted that someone has issued from Donald Trump in the year 2020. The only person more fascist than the Biden regime now is Nikki Haley who thinks the government should identify every one of those individuals with an ID.
That is not freedom. That is fascism and she should come nowhere near the levels of power level on the white house. Welcome back. That was her fake Ramaswani showcasing some of the candidates highly aggressive comments tonight.
That was him accusing Nikki Haley of acting like a fascist. He also suggested the January 6th attack was an inside job that the government lied about 9-11, that the 2020 election was stolen and that the great replacement conspiracy theory was government policy all debunked conspiracy theories. Joining me now is Trish McLachlan, senior advisor to the Ramaswani campaign. Thank you for joining me Trish.
I appreciate it. Thank you, Chris, and for having me. So let's start right there. Are you comfortable with your candidate pedaling in these conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory which has been a rallying cry for white nationalists and violent extremists?
Chris and I completely disagree with the premise of your question. Your calling conspiracy theories and most of these are conspiracy realities. I mean, you're taking 9-11 for example. The government lied to us for 20 years about 9-11.
This is absolutely true. There was Saudi Arabian involvement. Which the 9-11 commission denied for 20 years until actually recent months where they offered sure evidence that Saudi Arabian intelligence was involved. Then we're moving on to the 6th presidential regime.
The list of theories that he laid out debunked. But let me move on to the fact that he had a gun. The 9-11 was not debunked in either. It was January 6th.
So I don't know why you're saying it's been debunked. The 6th being an inside job that's been debunked. As there's been 44,000 footage of that. There's no evidence of that.
That's not fully being released. So you're absolutely starting to show evidence that people were welcomed in by police officers. So I think there's absolutely questions about what happened on January 6th. And I think that you as a responsible journalist, you know that we should question what the government has told us.
Some people have cherry picked pieces of that footage that has been released to try to make that case. But there's no evidence that it's an inside job. But let me move on to my question. Let me move on to my question.
Because the audience reaction tonight was notable in that you heard from the candidate. And then on multiple different instances, his comments, his attacks were followed up by a series of booze. Are you concerned? Is he concerned that he's failing to resonate with the voters who he needs?
Kristin, who do you think built that audience tonight? The RNC who's helping run these debates. Who did they call on last debate to resign? Ron and McDaniel, who then has been booing Vivek and saying she wouldn't give one cent of R&C funding to Vivek.
Yes, I'm not surprised that they would stack with establishment Republicans. I mean, of course they did. Well, but the polls also bear that out as well that he's not resonating right now. And he's, you know, not with an striking distance of Haley or Trump for that matter, who he needs to defeat.
Is it his goal to defeat Trump? Because on that stage, and when he goes out onto the debate stage, it often seems like he is defending the former president. Is he running for office? Or is he running to be a surrogate of former President Trump's?
Kristin, I think you and the media are for a big surprise come January 15th. What we're seeing in Iowa is bigger and bigger crowds than the time the visits we've had before. And what we're finding is that more than 50% of those who come to the Vegas events are not registered Republicans. Only 20% are typical Republican caucus voters.
So Vivek is tapping into just affected Democrats, political independents, all of those people. We need to take, educate how to caucus and bring them around with us. I think that those people are not being pulled. Trisha, if he doesn't win in Iowa, is that game over for Mr.
Rameswani? I don't think so at all. I think if we perform well in Iowa, that's going to bring us huge momentum. But look at New Hampshire, New Hampshire is largely an independent state.
And what is it? 40% are registered independents. Vivek pulls incredibly well with independents. That's where we're seeing a lot of people from events.
We see people in Ron Paul has Ron Paul's shirts. These are people we're going to bring with us when Vivek actually sweeps. All right, Trisha McLaughlin. Thank you for joining me.
Really appreciate it. Thanks. Coming up next, you're looking live and watch party in Atlanta where battleground voters are reacting to what they heard on the stage tonight. We'll take you there after the break.
You're watching Meet the Press special coverage of the fourth Republican primary debate. Back with me now is the panel Amy Walter Hugh Hewitt and Matt Gorman. So guys, let's talk about some of the fireworks tonight. We were just talking to the Rameswani campaign.
And there were a number of moments when he was attacked, frankly, by other candidates, including Chris Christie, who was defending Nikki Haley. Let's play that sound. And I'm going to get everyone's reaction on the other side. We're now 25 instances debate.
And he has insulted Nikki Haley's basic intelligence, not her positions, her basic intelligence. She doesn't know region. She wouldn't be able to find something on a map that his three-year-old defined. Look, if you want to disagree on it, she's that's fine.
And Nikki and I disagree on some issues. But I'll tell you this, I've known her for 12 years, which is longer than he's even started to vote in a Republican primary. And while we disagree about some issues and we disagree about who should be president of the United States, what we don't disagree on is this is a smart, accomplished woman. You should stop insulting.
So a lot of people weren't expecting Chris Christie to defend Nikki Haley, but there he was. And as we said earlier, raise his questions about whether he might be thinking about endorsing her if he does drop out at some point. But this tension with Vivek Ronna Swami, the first debate, he actually got a lot of applause for his attack lines. It seems like it's wearing same with the audience.
I think it's over. I do want to come up with the government, Governor Honig gentlemen Lee Moemann. And I think there still is a place, especially among older voters who tend to go out to caucuses in the middle of the night and who vote in New Hampshire. And I think they will honor the fact that he was a gentleman and came to the defense of the ambassador.
But I also think that generally the debates that run their course until after New Hampshire, because we've heard everything. I mean, you and I did this before, I didn't hear anything new tonight because I don't think I think the moderator did a fine job. Yes, they did. I don't think I heard anything I hadn't heard before.
Matt, what do you think? What's your take? With the Vivek thing, there's always one candidate who you can just tell the other candidates cannot stand on the stage. You can tell from debate one, it was a vake.
And I think it boiled over certainly tonight. You had that Christine, I think a lot of us have been waiting for. One is going to have that moment that really breaks through. He's been talking about a big game for a long time.
But I agree with you, Hugh, I think there will be debates, there will be kind of offshoot debates where it might be a Fox show or this or that with among one or two candidates. But I think for the most part for right now, I wouldn't be surprised this was the last major organized debate. Interesting. Amy, Vivek is so interesting because, and I put this question to his campaign circuit, which is, is he running to be Trump?
Is he really running to be president? Or is he trying, is he running to get Trump's attention and to potentially be a part of a Trump administration if there is a second term? That your second point about really getting Trump's attention is the more valid and to be the next generation's Trump as we talk about going into 2028. None of those tend to work out though.
All those folks who say, well, I'm running now to get attention and then I'll pull myself on the stage for 2028. You know what, 2028 is a long time from now. And there are going to be a whole lot of other people to fill that vacuum. The other thing would be he runs for office somewhere else.
He runs for the Senate. He runs for Congress. I don't know if there's obviously not a Senate race right now in Ohio where he's living. But would he be, he's got name ID, but is that what he wants to do?
I don't get the sense because he thinks he should be president at whatever. That's not a Buckeye approach. That's not a question. He starts a targeting name ID.
It's also all his attention, all his national hits to go and be a house candidate. I mean, we were watching wait and see what happens with his campaign. I do want to pause this conversation because we've spent the last hour breaking down tonight's debate. But on election day, it's not our opinion that matters.
Of course, it is the voters. NBC News 24 campaign embed. Namdi Igwanu is with Republican voters at a watch party in Atlanta, Georgia. Namdi, it's so good to see you.
You do fantastic work. And I know you've been there with the voters in Georgia. What are they telling you? What did they think of tonight's debate?
Well, first and getting reaction from voters for Atlanta was quite easy. They actually organized a straw poll on their own during the debate and were keeping track of their opinions. By the end of the night, you have a big problem. I mean, I just watch party about 30 people getting five votes.
You got Ron is getting two. You can hear the Chris Christie having a soul one vote. I get this. One of our president Donald Trump is right now being on the stage guy 18.
So that's really reflective of the vibe of the night here in Atlanta. But you don't have to take my word for it a couple of times. He's agreed to stay out there and give us their opinions. And well, I want to start with you.
There was a moment tonight that got a lot of people riled up. What was the moment that caught your eye that left him on? What left him off for me was Nicki Hayley being called out for being the warm up this year is at the same time. I'm swam and holding up a note pad saying Nicki is a corrupt and it's got something that stands out really strongly in my mind and in the voters mind.
But they talk too much about Trump. I mean, they weren't on the stage. But the rule of the stage. And Chris, I have to tell you, when Vivei cut up his props, there were audible chairs in the room.
So we definitely got a lot of people's attention. I heard booms once and it was when Chris Christie was speaking and we have our lone soldier tonight who was supportive of Chris Christie. How do you think he did tonight? Well, Chris Christie is a proven leader, right?
He's he's got a record that he can run on. And to me, he represents like the Republican pragmatists, right? People that understand essentially that we have a situation where we have not one and we haven't had that consistency. If you attack Trump, currently, because of the number of people that are supporting him, it really makes it hard for him to climb the ball.
But I thought he landed some really right back approach to things that talk about rational things and people hear about. But unfortunately, he did also call it Donald Trump as long as he does that. I have a gentleman said, he's still leaving. And Peter, I want to tell you, because one thing that surprised me was you some of the big promise money getting more support tonight than Ron is anti-scent.
I'm curious, as some of the support is him, why do you think that is? The fact is passionate. He's clever. He's young.
And that's what a lot of voters, I think, are seeing. A lot of folks in this room. The Santas as military experience, great governing experience, understands state economics. I think what people get to understand the rational and the rationale behind this campaign will do much better.
And Marcie, you don't have the same time left. Majority of the people in this room supported Donald Trump, who wasn't even on this stage. Why? Because the people are passionate about President Trump.
We didn't need to be on this stage tonight because the four people that were on the stage were jogging for the second place position, maybe the VP slot or cabinet position overall. All right. And I have to tell you, for a cent, that is a baby hurt over and over again. The Donald Trump is not being on this stage left the biggest mark.
And you know, that's a story recurring again and again throughout this race. Nandy, fantastic job. And I think your watch party gets extra credit for having a straw poll. You're taking this to a whole new level.
So thank you. That was fantastic. Fantastic interviews. Looks like they're there for the long haul.
So enjoy those conversations, Nandy. Thank you so much. Amy, it's so fascinating. It's unofficial.
It's not a real poll, but Trump gets 18 votes. It says everything. That these debates haven't really done anything to move the ball, to move any of these candidates closer to where they want to get to. What's been really fascinating to watch though is the different theories of the case and that each one of these candidates has put forward trying to win those voters away from Donald Trump.
The Chris Christie, let's just punch Trump in the face. That's obviously getting him 2% all right, getting into traction in New Hampshire, but not much more than that. There's a lot of things he hasn't finished the job. He hasn't gone far enough on some of these issues, especially when we're talking about transgender or doing stuff with the wall.
That hasn't really gotten much traction. And now we have the latest person to kind of bump up in the consciousness here of voters, Nikki Haley, who's doing the sort of gold watch strategy that many had thought that Ron DeSantis was going to do, which is to say, you know what, you've done a good job on most things as president, Donald Trump, but we need a new generation. And also threading this needle of, I'm not going to criticize him that loudly, but kind of give some hints about it by talking about the chaos and the generational difference. So hoping that the more subtle approach will win those voters over.
But essentially voters have already, one Republican pollster said at best of age, she said, think about the voters who are open to voting for somebody else. They're like folks sitting at a dinner, looking at a menu, and they say they're open to different things on that menu, but they know what they really want. And Donald Trump is what they want. And these other candidates have to really get them to look at the menu one more time.
But don't you? Come on, they're really good here. What about the same? That's what's great here.
Well, it's such a great way to frame it. Matt, to that point, and to choose your words carefully, Trump's recent comments saying, I won't be a dictator except for on day one, did come up during the debate, which was fascinating. The question went to Chris Christie. Certainly the other candidates could have engaged.
They chose not to. Yeah, it's true. And the other argument you didn't hear, it's at the beginning that point real quick is you didn't hear like the bill you're going to see that everyone can see that the patterns now have changed with the polling. You can't make that argument anymore.
So you have to evolve a little bit on that. But I think also to your point, you do not want to, the one thing they didn't want to do was the second part of this state was talking about the border and talking about energy. So what they didn't want to do was drift in to critiquing him on that policy, which every part of the Republican base follows him on that. So they might not agree with the first part, but the second part was where they ran into danger getting a foul of the base on it.
Yeah, it's a great point. I mean, you heard Governor DeSantis and Governor DeSantis is trying to make the case he's going to be even tougher on the border than Trump. And yet he still doesn't give some specifics in some key areas. Tonight he declined to answer directly what should happen to people who crossed the border.
I'm going to give the Hackade football analogy. Sometimes you just hang around in a game and hope that something goes wrong. And so right now we've got Governor DeSantis and Ambassador Haley hanging around in the game trying to stay within three scores. It might be the fourth quarter.
They might have to pull a miracle. They might have to hit the Hail Mary, but they're hanging around. And those two hung around through tonight. I don't think Governor Christine, the fake promise from him he did.
And if they can't get some breaks, some theories of break, the former president is a prohibitive favorite for the nomination and a prohibitive favorite at this point, I think, to be Joe Biden. And that's where we are. All right, well, we will have to see what happens. We are just 40 days from Iowa, folks.
So it's really getting exciting. Thank you so much. Fantastic conversation, Amy Huw and Matt appreciate it. And thank you all for being with us.
We'll have more news and analysis tomorrow and every weekday at 4 p.m. Eastern on Meet the Press Now. Have a good evening. As the day wraps up, get this scoop on what's been happening with Here's the Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News with me, your host, Gazzam Visuya.
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