From Greenwashing to Greenhushing: Navigating ESG in 2025 with Bob Smith

In this episode of the Future of Finance, host Georges Dyer sits down with Bob Smith, Co-Founder, President, and Co-Chief Investment Officer at Sage Advisory. Bob shares his firm’s evolution since its founding in 1996—from two people and a Bloomberg terminal to managing $30 billion in assets—driven by a mission to align investments with purpose. The conversation dives deep into Sage’s approach to purpose-driven and liability-aware investing, their proprietary ESG scoring system (the Leaf Score), and how they’ve built ESG integration into fixed income and ETF strategies. Bob also provides a candid view of how today’s political climate has impacted sustainable investing, the retreat in corporate stewardship, and the dangers of “greenhushing” alongside greenwashing. The episode explores policy ideas like carbon pricing, the sustainability tradeoffs of tariffs, and the role of AI and blockchain in the future of finance. Listeners will walk away with actionable insights on building resilience, transparency, and values alignment in investment strategies. Keywords: ESG investing, purpose-driven finance, fixed income strategies, Leaf Score, greenwashing and greenhushing, political backlash on ESG, tariffs and sustainability, carbon pricing, AI in finance, sustainable investment frameworks