This is a Global Player original podcast. Hello, Sam here. Hope you're well. Hope you're looking forward to Christmas.
Katie and I are having a bit of a break before we're back very soon with a new series of You're Wrong About ADHD. But Christmas can be a stressful time for everybody, but particularly if you've got ADHD, with all the expectation, all the potential for overwhelm, just all the socialising, let's be honest. So we thought a good opportunity to go back to our conversation with Henry Shelford from ADHD UK, looking at different ways to manage a Christmas, how to cope and how to have a good time, but also give yourself some space for your ADHD. Hello Henry, it's lovely to see you again.
It's wonderful to be here. Can I start with telling you why I find Christmas such a stressful time for me? And maybe you can give me some tips on how I can handle it better. I have always felt I get to September and it's New Year without even looking up.
I don't know where four months to go. It just goes like that. And for me, it's about the lists. It's about the overwhelm of jobs to do, all the people to think about.
And at the same time, knowing that I've got to, whilst meeting everyone's needs, make it perfect for everyone. You know, everyone's experience of Christmas is riding on me. And along with all that comes that emotional overwhelm as well. So where do you even start with that?
Christmas just so much comes together at once, right? It's a deadline. You've got lots of different people judging you and a responsibility to them. And you've got that mix of different expectations and trying to fulfil them all.
And that respect isn't unclear exactly what success looks like. Yeah, and so little time to do all that stuff as well. Everyone wants to meet you for a Christmas drink in December. So, you know, the time in which you can get...
Oh, you've got more friends than me. I don't want to say that about that. Tell more to me. But, you know, it's like, oh, let's get together for just a quick Christmas drink.
I'm thinking, I have less and less time. Why can't we meet in January when the pressure is off and I don't have to think about where the flipping Christmas decorations are at the back of the attic? And there are so many different things to think about. And so many ways in which you can fail.
I think that's the thing that really stresses me out. I know that I can let people down in so many different ways. You know, forgetting to buy Christmas presents. Or another thing I've done is I bought Christmas presents twice because I'd forgotten that I bought it the first time and then put it in the place where I put the Christmas presents and gone, oh, no.
And now I've got to find the time to take the first one back having found the receipt because I don't know where that is either. Everything gets lost. Everything just goes completely wrong. Picking up on your point about forgetfulness, that leads us nicely on to our first question, I think, which is a lovely story from Pip who says she's newly diagnosed, 40 years old.
I've been waiting for every new episode every week. Really enjoying the podcast. Well, thank you for listening, Pip. I do have Christmas chaos, she says.
The worst was when I left the bags of Christmas presents for all my friends and family from my last minute Christmas shopping at the pub on the 24th of December when I popped in for a last minute drink with some friends. I mean, that's a really good illustration of the forgetfulness and the stress that we're talking about. How do we go about at Christmas time trying to reduce the stress so that we can perhaps try to manage our memory? You know, I am a four-year-old child in the respect of my back.
Like, if I have anything in addition to my backpack, it's tied to my backpack. If I thought it was socially accessible to have my gloves attached for a piece of string through my anorak, I would absolutely be doing that. Okay, let me tell you that I've had my gloves on elastic as an adult before for exactly that reason. Now, this is long before an ADHD diagnosis, but trust me, that was one of the best winters I've ever had because I didn't buy five to ten pairs of gloves to get through it.
But, you know, why not have your gloves on elastic? But it's so interesting because I am the same. I have one bag. It's a backpack.
It's a very special backpack to me and it has a pocket for everything that is important to me. So, you know, my paths to get into work, where my wallet goes, are all very, very, very specific places and they all have to go back in that pocket. And without the bag, I feel like a little bit of me is lost because it has become such an important part of my organisational process. And I love the idea of tying things onto your bag because that's the only way it works.
If you put it down and it's not in the bag, you can guarantee I will leave it behind. That's how my brain works. I forget to look. I forget to remember.
You know, it's a nightmare. When you're looking, you glitch. Like, I'll look across the sofa looking for something and my focus glitches as I'm doing it and I miss it. I had a pleasure of interviewing Harrison Bumdar and he came up with a phrase.
He just talked about the importance of being able to see things and then being really clear so he could do them. And he just said, tidying is hiding. It is. It is.
It absolutely is. Tidying is hiding. You need open shelving. You need glass doors on cupboards.
You need to be able to see everything in order. You know, my desk is always a mess. But the point is that the desk is a mess because I can see everything on it. And if you start putting it into tidy piles, I will lose it and I won't be able to see it.
I see, I can't cope with mess. I can't cope with mess. It stresses me out. I have to have everything tucked away and put somewhere.
Because if everything's got a home, then I know where it is and that's how I try and remember things. Which perhaps makes me unusual, but that's my method of remembering. But that's a stretch. Because out of interest, is the mess on your desk and then other aspects tidy?
So I'm tidy to a messy desk. Am I tidy anywhere? I'm trying to think. Is there anywhere in my life where I'm tidy?
No. No. I have to be. Because I'm a mother to two teenage boys and a wife and a daughter and a sister and, you know, all those different relationships mean that I have to be efficient.
So I have systems, but they're not very tidy systems. They tend to involve piles of things in the corners of rooms. And, you know, eventually those piles can get a little overwhelming. Like Christmas presents, actually.
At the moment, there are piles of Christmas presents. And people aren't allowed to go into certain rooms because they'll see their Christmas presents because I've got no better system for hiding them than that. You know, but if I put them away, I'll forget that I've bought them and I'll buy them again. So I have to leave them out where I can see them and hope that I remember to look at them before I head down to the shops again.
I don't know. I sound like a mad woman, Henry. Well, you don't do me like it to people listening. You don't like it.
Because this is our world. We're all unique individuals by saying HD. So there isn't a one-size-fits-all. I think the big step, the one that we often really struggle with is just that step back and go, right, how am I going to do this?
Something that I find works really well is you'll get other advice, which is you'll just chip away at it. Do a little bit here, a little bit there, a little bit there. And it's just useless, right? Because I'm either going 100% or I'm not.
I don't have that in-between mode. So what I find works really well is say, right, on this day, I'm doing the presents. And I just do all the presents, as many as I possibly can. And I find that just blocking it out and saying that's what I'm doing as a whole.
I actually find that goes beyond being a coping strategy. I just thought it works so well. I find it really nice. It does make it easy.
The only problem point is when you're like, you know, what do you want? And then you try to reply. Oh, yes. Now my day's gone.
Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. Or you forget. You forget that they ask.
I now have a note, a Christmas note that I send to myself in September, which has the list of all the people that I need to buy for. And I write on it. I have emailed to ask what they want for Christmas. I have to put every step down on that piece of paper in order to remember at which stage I am with each individual.
Because I cannot hold that information in my head. And the people who don't reply are so infuriating. The people who don't realise that you need to know a month in advance. You can't leave it until the week before because the week before is too late for me.
And by then I'll be frazzled and cross and shouting at everybody. I need to have got this stuff planned pretty much before December, actually. Otherwise, it's too late. It's too late.
And there's everything else to think about. And that's what you're saying, Henry, is making a plan, making a routine, making a structure for essentially what you're doing. Try and take that step back. The problem, though, is that it's the other people problem.
So, like, I've got kids. We have to put a list together, like, who's buying what for which. I discovered a list system, like this one in Amazon. You can do wishes.
It doesn't have to be an Amazon product. Fantastic. We've got two buses. One of my relatives didn't know that they needed to be ticked off as a board.
I thought, honestly, I thought I found a panacea to that problem. Speaking of other people, we've had a note from someone who wishes to remain anonymous. And you'll see why. She says she was diagnosed with ADHD as a 54-year-old woman.
And she says, I have somehow managed to hold together my family. But I'm aware they can all find me really difficult. And I am dreading Christmas with my in-laws. I spend most years secretly wishing I could hide away upstairs.
Oh, yes. Is there anything I can do to stop feeling so overwhelmed? And Sam and I often talk about this. There's a lot of guilt involved, I think, with the feeling of overwhelm and the desire to creep away and be on your own for a bit.
And I now look back and I realize there have been a lot of moments over the years where I've done just that. And my husband has come into the bedroom and said, what are you doing? Why are you not downstairs? What are you doing?
You can't hide away up here. And yet, I do feel I need to do that every now and then. I need to be on my own just to sort of reset the social battery so I can then go out into the fray again. Is that something you need to do?
So it's talking around like that feeling of overwhelm is something a lot of people experience. And I know something about the strategy is like, it's the nap strategy, where they say to the host, I've eaten so much, I'm just going to have to have an hour. And it's a really socially smooth way to be able to come out for an hour or so whilst making it about celebrating how wonderful the meal and everything's been. I think looking to see how you can curate the day to work better for you.
So if you're hosting, you're in control. If you're not, you've still got some opportunities. So it may be that you find going out on a walk, the fact that then you can just be talking to one person and it'd be much more managed than not jumping you around. Actually, that'd be really useful.
It happens. That's one of our family traditions to go out there with my parents and dogs. And I've never realized actually how important that is to me. It really gives me that time out.
We have a friend group who love a game of charades where it becomes a memory game. So first round is normal, second round, you're allowed to do less, third round, even less. And I can't remember any of them. I hate that game with an absolute passion.
It just makes me feel really dumb and I don't like exposing it. So what do you do, Henry? What do you do in that situation? Well, so thinking about your game, like I'm thinking about what games can I bring, because actually usually there's a bit of like, what should we play?
And you'd be like, oh, I have to have brought this. And usually there's some people in your family you can speak to and say like, actually like this thing, I hate it. Like if we could do this instead, it would really happen. They can be your ally going, I'd really like to play that game.
I have a lot of patience for games, to be honest. I just feel people firing questions at me or anything like that. I just think I'm either not interested in the answer or it doesn't move quickly enough for me. Or I can play it for five minutes, whatever it is.
Whether it's a board game, whether it's your answer, I play for five minutes, I think, well, this has been fun, let's move on and do something else. So yeah, I'm totally with you on games. And social situations, I know, you know, everybody says at Christmas that you have a room full of people, it can be overwhelming, it can be tiring. The difference for me and my ADHD is that I get confused.
I get mentally confused. I get to the point where I'm so tired that I can't then communicate and I have to take myself away. So I can be enjoying it, but even if it's with family, I need to go away and have 20 minutes or so and maybe longer, or I just am able to give my brain a rest. And I find that it's something that then brings a lot of guilt because you feel bad about, you know, trying to extricate yourself from a social situation where people are just trying to be friendly.
And I think what you said about trying to curate your day is interesting. It is maybe planning things in that suit you and knowing that when you're going to do something that doesn't suit you, can you have a conversation with the person who's hosting? I mean, that's probably the key, isn't it, is letting other people know that you're struggling. Yeah, yeah.
Actually, do you know what? It's been more open about your ADHD, I think, really, isn't it? And actually, you know, it goes back to what we have talked about before. The whole diagnosis element of ADHD can be a really big deal because for the first time, you recognise why you can't do certain things and why you need certain people to understand certain things about you.
And actually, that's a really big deal on a day like Christmas Day when there are 15 people in your house and loads of needs to meet and, oh my God, it all can get a bit of a pressure cooker because you're all in one room all at the same time. But to be able to say, you know what, I just need to go and have half an hour on my own because I have ADHD is a really, really big thing. It is. And some people are allies.
I know when you're talking about being open, obviously, we are all very open. But oftentimes you are deciding who to tell. Like some people, it's going to be positive selling and some people, you know, it's not. And one of the challenges in a family group is you might have people in both camps.
And so thinking about who's an ally, it could help you. Allies can be a great approach. There is, for me anyway, the thing that really makes me struggle with ADHD is stress. A lot of this is reducing stress, isn't it?
It's reducing pressure on yourself. What are some of the best ways to do that, do you think? I think that taking that step back and having a think, trying to build up a plan. If you're not hosting, talking to the host or someone who's been there for to understand what's likely to happen.
Otherwise, you're stepping into the unknown and you can't work out what to do, where you'd like to have issues because you don't know. I have a very simple issue. If you don't feed me at mealtimes, I'm going to be very angry. And I actually do think it's in respect related to my ideas, because you need enough sugar in your brain to fight for it, otherwise you start to have memory issues and you start to have focus issues.
And I've already got those. So if you make those worse, I'm in real trouble. There's a whole load of people who think that at Christmas, it's absolutely fine to have lunch at 3pm. That's totally true.
It's totally true. Alcohol at 11. Alcohol at 11 and food at 3pm. And I'm the same as you.
I need to have a meal in between breakfast and lunch. So basically, my strategy is Christmas is, instead of a three meal day, it's a four meal day. I'm having lunch. I'm just having this big 3pm thing as well.
Yeah, well, maybe. So maybe that's about thinking. I mean, that's about putting on my parent of young children hat now and remembering back to the times when, of course, with small stomachs, I had to have snacks available all the time to make sure that they always had energy. And maybe, again, that's about thinking about things like having a secret snack spot where you've got nuts or whatever it is that you need that will keep your brain and your emotions regulated so that you're not feeling.
So the alcohol doesn't completely throw your system out of kilter. And so when you are in the hands of someone else who isn't going to feed you until three o'clock, you at least have a little bit of control over you. But again, it's remembering to take them. I think that's a really good point, Henry.
You really make me think about that because I'm someone who absolutely food affects. And if I haven't eaten, I get confused. For me, it's all about getting confused. And I think the other thing on Christmas Day is sometimes that gap between breakfast and lunch, I think I'll just eat this mound of chocolate that the children have got, which doesn't help either because that just gives me a buzz and has the oxygen effect.
So I think, absolutely. So remembering to have another meal is key. I mean, that's a tip I'm going to take away with me. And also, in terms of snacks, just be the guest who turns up with loads of dips and chips and snacks and you're like, I'm doing your wonderful guests.
Also, I'm fair. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Coming armed.
Coming prepared. What you were saying earlier about planning your day, it isn't just about planning when you're going to, well, even planning the whole of Christmas. It isn't just about planning when you're going to buy your presents. It's not just about planning the time for dinner.
This is actually about planning, I'm going to eat this time, this time, this time, this time. This is when I'm going to go for my nap. This is probably how long I think I can manage going to a party. I mean, it is planning your time in that regimented way, I think.
That's what we're talking about, isn't it? It's also having just the self-awareness. So you can, you know, like, it's right, getting to one o'clock and I seem to be on edge. Oh, of course I'm on edge.
Really, really hungry. So having that awareness, for some of them will work, having quite an exact plan. And for some of them to be like, having the awareness so you can see stuff starting to be a problem before it is, I think that can be very helpful too. We've got another question.
Paul says, I'm 62. I was diagnosed five years ago. When I was diagnosed, medication was suggested. I was apprehensive.
I tried it for a week. Really didn't like the way it made me feel. My fear was that it might leave me less effective. If there was a part of ADHD which is helping me to be successful, then I don't want to lose it.
However, I believe that my ADHD has been problematic in my relationships and offered me tempted to reconsider. And Paul asks, how can you manage ADHD without medication? This is a really important question for people, particularly at the moment when there is a medication shortage. How do you manage your ADHD without medication?
And I say that as somebody who doesn't take medication. And what you said earlier about self-awareness, for me it is about recognising my symptoms. What would you say, Paul? The data is pretty clear.
The data is that about 80% of people find medication helpful. And the UK and US statistics suggest between 50 and 25% are not for medication. So we know people are treading both paths. And both paths are absolutely equally valid.
People talk about medication being a helping hand and making a very big difference for them. And obviously others not. And we do have a middle path of people opting to take medication to help them build up their own self-awareness and their own strategies to a point where they feel that they don't feel the need for helping out of medication. So there is that middle path as well.
So in terms of building up strategies, number one is education. It's listening to podcasts like yours. It's going to support groups. It's talking to other people with ADHD.
It's understanding how it's impacting you. It's finding where's the line between you and your ADHD. What's me? I find something really difficult.
For others it is a molehill. For me it's a mountain. And I need to have a strategy and a plan. I need to be kind to myself.
But I'm a complex human being. And I am totally capable of making a mountain out of a molehill. At which point I need to give myself a big hard job and go, come on, come on, you can do it. Get it done.
And recognise that you need to know the difference. we thought everything was give yourself a big hard push and force yourself over the mountain and not think about doing things differently and strategies for it and one of those strategies being just not doing it and uh recognizing that and it's often been pretty hard because we've always done that question so i think step one is the self-awareness piece and the awareness of adhd piece for someone with adhd for whom medication doesn't work the key for me is being aware of the things that are going to be a problem so for example on christmas day if i'm starting to feel overwhelmed or tired or or realize that i'm getting a bit grouchy you know do i need to go and take a minute actually do i need to have something to eat you know that has been life-changing for me to almost see the problem coming ahead i think that's one of the key ways to manage adhd without medication i think what you said about not making a mountain after a molehill is really interesting because one solution to that is to say that social situation is going to really stress me out i'm going to get really tired therefore i'm not going to see the family at christmas well that isn't the solution sometimes you do have to push through sometimes you have to say i'm going to put myself in a situation which is going to be perhaps uncomfortable i'm going to have to recognize it's uncomfortable but then i also know that maybe there's a time limit on that or maybe i give myself two hours to go to that party rather than thinking i can go all night i think that is self-awareness not to not do things but to just manage almost a test of how much you can manage and that's that's what really works for me yeah everyone particularly people with adhd who are successful they've worked out that they need to do it differently and we also we're usually talking about about work but it's actually about life okay it is about christmas it's about other events and doing it just a bit differently in a way that works that's the key so if we were to sum up all the things that we've talked about what would be your top tips for christmas henry bearing in mind also we're all unique individuals there's a breadth of us but certainly number one is our awareness of of you and christmas what are the bits that you find particularly challenging having that step back and having a having a think and to do that you've also got to know your day and if you're hosting you do you're in charge but if you're going somewhere else you don't and you've talked to people who've gone there before the person hosting understand what the plan for the day is what's gonna what's gonna happen having an ally like some people you spoke to like they know you understand where you might be having a challenge and they can help you and that can be as simple as like helping supporting you if you need a bit of time out to bring yourself back together and this one is a fantastic strategy it's just called a nap strategy where they're like i've had such a lovely big meal like i should have i need to have a nap and that's just a lovely way to have a gap on the other side of flip side about like there are some people who are offering something you know you're going to be critical like you might say things and that's particularly if you're newly diagnosed you've told people and they are critical something that you know is a part of adhd that can be pretty brutal and so recognizing that and thinking trying to have a plan for that that's pretty simple it's like you know i hear you and just moving on very quickly moving away and getting around i can help you and then my last top tip is like take control of the games like no memory games i don't even like i know i i will lose to a three-year-old at snap like let's control the games choose the game love it i love that one that's brilliant well it's been a pleasure to talk to you as ever henry thank you so much for joining us today it's been a pleasure talking to you um it's been absolutely wonderful thank you merry christmas good luck indeed thank you henry as always with henry that was really interesting and made me think about what i'm gonna do this christmas yeah and for me the two things i'm taking away were ally and snacks i am finding an ally and i'm taking snacks and gonna give myself a bit of a break i'm definitely gonna remember to have an extra meal about 10 11 o'clock in the morning maybe another one so breakfast big meal then i'll have christmas dinner and another big meal in the evening it's a four meal day and the thing to remember is that by the time you get to christmas day you've done all of the faff and you are through it and if something goes wrong it's okay i think try not to be too obsessed with making it perfect and just say you know what what happens happens and try and enjoy it and if it doesn't go exactly as you planned that's okay you can listen to you're wrong about adhd for free on global player download it from the app store or go to globalplayer.com see you next time lots of really useful tips from henry hope you have a fantastic christmas and new year and katie and i will be back very soon with a new series of you're wrong about adhd this is a global player original podcast