Hello everyone and welcome back to our brand new podcast where we dive head first into the universes crafted by our two favorite authors. I am Austin, your co-host for Saze Adventure. And I'm Abby, we are two book nerds who could talk for hours about the heroes and villains of Middle Earth and Westeros. What started as a couple of siblings comparing notes onto Powerhouse fantasy series has become a full-blown podcast and we are so excited to wonder these worlds with you.
So you're probably wondering why these two authors? Well, both J.R. and Tolkien and George R.R. and Martin have a profound ability to create these vast, intertwined universes that are easy to escape into and provide a wide array of characters to limit.
Absolutely. Whether you're a die-hard fan who can quote whole passages or if you're someone just starting your journey into these realms, we've got something for you. Our goal is to make these stories accessible to everyone no matter your level of familiarity. And a bit about us, Abby and I grew up surrounded by these tales.
Our dad mandated that we read all the lore of the Rings books before we could watch any of the movies and we would all meet up on the study diets to watch any of the thrones together. We've had countless discussions about our favorite characters, unexpected plot twists, and the sneaky foreshadowing used throughout both sets of novels. This banter fueled our desire to create a podcast. And in our upcoming episodes, you'll expect some deep dives into lore and the characters, some comparisons between the realms, and interviews with some special guests who love the series just as much as we do.
And don't worry, we'll try to keep it conversational and fun. We want this to feel like you're sitting around with fellow fans having a lively chat about your favorite stories. We encourage you to join our conversations online, share your theories, tell us your grievances, or just chat about how you deserve these epic songs yourself. What's your favorite character, arcing Game of Thrones, or your favorite battle scene in The Lord of the Rings?
Can you act it out scene by scene? We want to hear from you. So for the love of the lore, grab a flag in a veil and let's go on an adventure. So we're going to begin with the chapter three of the Summer The Elves are the first children to be awoken.
We did talk a little bit last time about the dwarves, their whole, their whole different situation. But if you haven't, if you're in that podcast, please go back and hear about the creation of the dwarves very enlightening. But on the elves, they rise under the stars beside the waters of the Qui the N. I'm going to say yes.
Okay. So this is in the four east and middle earth, and the wake of the elves is pretty significant of them. And you know, as a long time for the book, they are referred to as the, I wouldn't say the favorite, but the most important creation of the valor. There's some jealousy that goes on later with the door from the elves.
We'll get into that later, but they are considered the quote unquote favorites, just like grandma. You know, grandma has a favorite grandkid. They won't say it, but we know they do. So it is said that the elves awakening was party lived towards grand plan and was foretold in music of the how you are.
And so rightly so, the elves are called the firstborn or yeah, I know you know, it's almost like it's on page. So they are described as being fair and noble beings with a deep connection to the world around them. And they possess free beauty and strength and intelligence. And they are they are immortal.
They are natural and their lives are tied to the world itself. So that's why they care so deeply about cultivating it and keeping it good and healthy and what what not, if that makes sense. So initially they are united in their love for the natural world and live in peace in the Quibenan, but with there's not a little outside force in that so they can have free reign to make the world as they like and make it all nice and pretty with their trees and their birds and such and that, but they don't have much controversy yet. So it's a peaceful time for now.
But Tolkien does talk about, you know, I did a very quick rendition, but he does go into the how they also look and how majestic they are and how shaped their faces are and how people are how fair that's good word. And that's why I we were talking about this the other day about the casting of the elves in Peter Jackson's rendition, which I think he did a great job because what is our runs? Nastion Blanken Mr Anderson, that's a man. But he looks like an elf through it's just a certain facial features and of course Galatriel herself and Lord the Rings, like a long pointy long pointy tall.
It's just the epitome of else. I think he'd be great job casting them. So um, so now the ultimate awake, we are starting to dive into kind of factions of elves, if you will, it's kind of how I think of it. The group's factions, yes, clans.
Each of them kind of have their own unique outlook on life itself and how life should go on Earth and so first, this is more from refresher for me because like Alex, I've read the Summer Land before, but it was I was in high school and I had probably been half attention to what I was reading. You know, it's one of those. It's a lot. So I forgot about two of these groups.
The first one is the Vanyar. What I have is that they are the first group to respond to the summons of L.R. They are led by Inghwei and are the most devoted of L.R. and their way of life and they are they are the most closely allied with the Vallar and they are characterized by purity and time loyalty.
That's really all I got out of the chapter from them. I don't know if I read the next word has anything else. The only other thing is that yeah, so they're the first ones to to go over to Valar. They were the first ones actually make that trek and go across and they they almost never come back.
There's only a few Vanyar that actually never come back to middle Earth after that. Okay, pause because I am not an expert. So just a refresher of L.R is like the undying ones. That is where the elves utopia basically is what you can think of that.
So I didn't know they can go and come back. Oh yes. So we just for some context too. You can edit some of those for maybe about four weeks down in the three years.
But so context. Context matters. So we, Melkor is still before the elves awake. Melkor is still very much running rampant across the Earth.
And so in Discord. Yeah, so he's essentially he's got all his minions going all across these Korean dark creatures, dark forests, etc. The the Valar know that the elves are the firstborn. They're gonna wait pretty soon.
So they have a big debate. Hey, we don't want these guys to wake up into a mess with a lot of people creatures get either killed or or get turned evil. So they have a big debate and the end of the debate is mainly reminding them that they need to let these elves firstborn half rewell. They need a fight drone battles and that they it's been prophesied through the music that the only guidance they would have is from the stars.
So what about Valar creates the stars? And then once the stars are created, that's actually what sparks the firstborn to arise. And then the because there's such discord still from Melkor, they end up coming agreement with man way to where they can send ambassadors over. And I think a Romay the hunter actually first discovers the from a very search for actually first discovers the elves are awake when he's hunting and arta sees them.
They're actually terrified of family first. So you start like they awake that you speak, they kind of get attacked right away. A lot of evil creatures evil stuff run around arta. So they are very fearful kind of creatures naturally.
So when they see a Romay, Valar, they're actually terrified of him first, but he does end up being able to be able to talk to a few of them. In way, it was one of the first ones he talked to, he goes back to his valor, hey, these guys are awake, goes right back to the middle earth, and then tries to kind of coax and help guide them. And again, it is agreed upon with man way they can send ambassadors over to help talk to them and then get them to come over to Valar. So with that context, again, they have to do a lot of battles, kind of, you know, traverse if you will through arta.
And then to get to Valar, it actually was a big journey and there were no boats that they had to cross the sea. So Valar was across the sea, so you should go up and around to the north and all the way back down again. And I'm sure a lot of readers at this point know that Melkor's base of operations was in the north, so he up traversed very closely that his base of operations actually make it over to Valar. This was really impressive because this is touched upon a little bit later in the script and this guy just knew what I'm ready.
And so these three groups are kind of, this is an order of kind of a got to Valar. So they are the very first ones to latch on to Eningway, lead their leader latch on to a Romay, the other ambassadors from Valar. So yeah, we're going to go over with the eyes and they make the truck right away. Then over the second group to make that truck and then the teller, some teller actually never make the truck.
Some of them, the third groups have an image from all of the various Eldon clans, some stay in the alerts, but then some teller actually do make a truck over to them for more context. They really split in these groups because of Melkor's chaos bringing and doing and talking to some of these Eldon convincing them. Maybe you should listen to Valar, maybe you should be your own thing of Miller with me. And there's a lot of speculation that he actually recruits some Eldon.
I don't want to touch too much of Melkor's. There are future battles with them in this chapter that we'll touch on with the captivity. Well, I mean, the second group right here, the Noldor, that we're about to talk about, or our big pop going forward here. So yeah, the Noldor, the second group ends with some of the sons and they're led by Fenway.
And they are known for their great intellects, they are a great craftsman and they're known for their ambition. The Noldor are curious and eager to learn from the Valar, but they also, kind of like I said, it's hinted that Melkor's so is a little bit of this in their minds, the sea that they are independent and prideful of their own lives and don't need to deal with the Valar. But as Alex kind of just said, some of them think more to be at least some of the Noldor still think that the Valar, right, this is where we're really starting to get some conflict here. And the Noldor themselves are a group that will play a significant role in history of the North.
And as their leader, Fainor becomes one of the most important figures in the story. And we will hear a lot about Fainor next episode, a lot of Adam, he's a very interesting fella. And then third group, Talari, this is the largest group of the Elms, but they are the most reluctant to leave, they are led by Lilway and they are the most diverse of three groups, but they are not as eager to travel west and North-West really to leave. They kind of think that they want they want to stay Miller, they want to cultivate themselves and make a life here.
So that's kind of the three groups of El-Dulphyls you'll be hearing about in this chapter and going forward, but wanting to break them down for you so you kind of have some knowledge of what's... So we have to recap. We have the Vanyar, Noldor, and Tallari. Yes.
Got it. So as a bit of a recap, the Valar, who are the powerful menevilant beings, have been watching over the world and they are aware, as Elix said, other El's awakening. So they decide, let's get the Elms over here to Aman and this really hopes to teach them about the world and also protect them from Elquark. They are a little hesitant about making the Elms fight their fight, but as we'll see that the Elms actually come quite an asset for the Valar.
So they send some messages and many of them agree to Journey Westward, towards Aman, and Verney's long, and as we said, some of the Elms are pretty reluctant to leave. So at the same time that they're dealing with the aftermath of Melkor's first rebellion where he was cast and devoid and he is eventually released from this void and this is where he begins to sow his discord and tries to weave in some hatred from the Valar into the Elms as they start to migrate west. And as this division goes on, he is starting to become deeply envious of the Elms by their beauty and their immortality and he just is kind of an angry elf towards the Valar. He wants to sow his discord and the elves is just kind of a little laugh at you.
I get to be. Yes. Yes, this is family friendly. So while some of the elves like the Noldur or eager to learn from the Valar and travel to Aman others become a little suspicious because of the whispers of Melkor.
So he fosters these doubts and he's playing on the Talaar's reluctance to leave and kind of convincing them like maybe just stay, build your own world here, make it better than what the Valar are doing and they really start to buy it and Melkor's ultimate goal is to break up the unity of the elves because as Alex said when they first came they were facing a lot of peril, a lot of battle and they did for me nice unity but Melkor said if I'm going to beat them I need to break that up. So that's going to where he starts to convince them like yeah don't trust them Valar. Don't trust. No trust.
No trust. Not big trust. No trust. So now the elves, the ones that decide to leave begin their great pilgrimage if you will um to the west and the Van Yeram and Elor, they do agree to go to Valar or to follow Valar to Aman and while some of the most of the Van Yeram go some of the Lord's say but the Valar do prepare for the great migration and the elves, they begin their their long journey across middle earth.
I have no idea how long it's going to take them. I don't remember. I don't think he ever says a real thing. It's pretty big.
So during the journey there's a lot of hardships and you know some of the elves their faith begins to falter and a pretty large portion of the Talaar are hesitant to leave and they become they become known as the Cenar which now my Lord of the Rings nerds out there should know about the Cenarion elves. They are known as the Gre elves but they are eventually the elves that inhabit Mercwood and one of the goats. His Cenar himself, he has a Cenarion elf himself so he does derive from the group that was the Talaar he were hesitant to leave. Does your mind know if his father, the Valar at all that they wanted to stay?
No I don't think so. I think they knew that they were going to be some that we're going to want to stay in Aman and not go to the west. That's the point of free will I guess. They can make their choices to stay or not.
Just a little bit because we already talked about Tolkien as a Catholic and this a little bit reminds me of like 40 days and 49s where they were wandering in the desert in the Old Testament. So this kind of feels a little like that. Yeah. That was a little Moses.
Yeah. So now that the larger portion has left the once remain that's larry and some of the old where they begin to have a lot of vision among themselves a lot of arguments and this leads to a lot of critical things that are going to happen in the future in the north. We'll cover a little bit in this chapter but you'll see more as we go on and this actually reinforces the point we made in previous episodes that even though these Valar even though these semi-gods demigods and elves even though their portray is perfect. They're heavily flawed.
They have human characteristics of being flawed even though they have everything going for them even elves themselves can fall into darkness and go down a wrong path. So I do appreciate talking for not running a perfect character. I do love a flawed character adds depth to it. So now we get into the captivity of Melkor and the other half the name the chapter.
So meanwhile Melkor, whose power remains pretty great. That's been observed by the Valar and is eventually captured after a long period of deception and corruption and his influence are the elves. It's not absolutely not all powerful but it's something that echoes into his pawns sorry on eventually but it seems like Tolkien implies that Melkor has kind of a what's that silver tongue is that the word or that phrase? I don't know what it is.
Like he can convince people very well. He's a word Smith. He convinces people to persuade him. Yes I have silver tongues but he could be right.
I could be right. I don't know. But you know Valar is a no-corner that's how he does it in my head. It's just I assume he's kind of like an agent kind of like star on Trynabe and he's weaving some doubts and acting as if he's a messenger but he's really not but um some are able resist of course like we said and some give it but nevertheless his imprisonment is temporary and he will continue to escape and he will do what Melkor does best.
He will cause some issues if you will. Yeah so for the a lot of people who remember Sauron from the movies I think exactly what else I'm saying there. So there's two things that Melkor does throughout this time. He while he does try to convince them to not trust the Valar especially Romay who they first meet and then and then some more Valar and come over and too he does capture them and I think for some of you who I'm sure heard the bait how do the works first come to being and of course Peter Jackson.
He'll not to that in the with the in the first thing we fell into the ring with Eric or Kai as he's talking to them but it is implied I would say through the there's some already in my opinion that when he went talking writes that Melkor captured and tortured the elves the firstborn as they were making the migration though that was the creation of the works in my opinion so I just wanted to touch on that and this was a time period when he first said that so before think of Orcs as coming into being definitively after the first form arose in my opinion again it was after he had captured and tortured and mutilated as Sauron and the movie uh discussed with the Orcai and that's the reason power did come to touch on it too with Adar a lot of people had beef with Adar I actually thought it was kind of cool I thought he was one of the great characters of that show because he's like half turned almost he's like in middle turning the work it looks like yeah and then he turns back for a second to see his elf when he gets when he gets to let your reign turn back and it's it is never described this is our theory why do you want to say that because it told me never explicitly says this is how works are created I can't remember exactly what Christopher is come outside I think Christopher is pretty much said the same thing too that's it's never been was never officially published by talking himself about how the works seem but this is but it's implied in implied yeah okay and I think that's that's rather cool and then the other quick thing I want to say too is so for for the valor so obviously like I mentioned before before the first one we're gonna wake right that the valor knew there's massive going on the muck or was was selling a lot of evil creatures throughout the and just dark things throughout the country during the world should say but at that point I was trying to get them just to finish the work and the last of the work they needed to be telling was creation of stars so that when the stars were created that's when the first one arose but it definitely became apparent after made way allowed some ambassadors to because you know we're only came back saying hey these guys are getting they're getting beat down pretty yeah we need help them so he went back and immediately started helping as much as he could as much as he could get them to trust him and then we did a lot more valor to be become ambassadors and that's when he even invited the three leaders of the house to come over to gain their trust and then we was actually the lead to the valor correct he's the head of the lark down show yeah but then after even the ambassadors from the valor went back being three of the houses they did agree okay we gotta do something about milk work so this captivity milk work was at that point in time the elves are still making their journey most of the first group of the valor had made their way over but at that point in time they said we gotta do something and they had a siege of a two mill if i'm saying that correctly big bad fortress of milk work up in the north and then Tulkas who was one of the least valcar he was a soldier he's a soldier he's a soldier yes i think Tulka named after himself that's actually good point never even get to that time but yeah but Tulkas rasal or rasal rasal rasalal rasal he rasal now just like him just like to take rasal we're from the middle west we can't tell but yeah he wrestled milk work and eventually so they brought him back to valor and present him for many ages okay i will say it's awesome uh was certain to cast uh to foretell that would not be the end of milk work there's there's future uh doings of this but for the time being he just captured and uh imprisoned in valor and since referred to as the boy i don't know what that means he of course never escaped on that it sounds a little rubber Jordan he does it does it does because i get trapped in those under we know so it's a whole it is a whole this is one we'll start here thing yeah that's a whole but uh yeah milk or is a mischievous little fella and he will come back to so his chaos as he likes to do so much um so the chapter really concludes the out deals getting over to settling them on under protection of valor and uh i believe manway reassumes his post top and mount in front of and we can then let the i should know i'm dispoint myself anyways the mountain in front of valor where he's he watches over make sure no he gets past um so now the stage is really set for the unfolding of the great events um some of these events i'm just gonna hit towards i'm not gonna spoil too much but we are gonna pre-assume see the forging of the simmarills which is where the boat gets its name okay um there's the unfortunate story of the noldor and the eventual struggle between the valor the elves and the nold course dresses so these tensions between free will and corruption loyalty and rebellion and the division of the elves will echo throughout the remainder of the simmarillium so i think every week i keep saying now the stage is set but i think now the stage really is set because no we talk about the noldor next week and i think we're just a couple of things to add to that we're interesting tidbits of this chapter as i was reviewing um the summary of it was he does talking desperately say that when they capture at malcor when to a cross-rassle them that they did not capture a significant portion of evil creatures he had so because there's so many cavern secret interests as exits tunnels within a tumo there's no way the valor could capture everyone so they actually did not capture a significant portion of his his minions his creatures his lieutenants and specifically talking in this chapter calls out that saran that's the though we so we have you know the three groups of elves who did make a journey over obviously a lot of the elves so did not to say some were captured but it is important to note that even though this is a time of court of cool peace as as um malcor was captured and transported to valor in prison there was so evil things in arda being led primarily by saran as well as other of his lieutenants and minions so yeah basically the elves they're still back in the lore if they're gonna have some fights correct i have them i continue to be captured and be turned and all though so there is still discourse in the world but um no the big man for now is captured so i really think that's that's everything i got about this chapter i think that's i think now now the stage is officially right i think the only other cool little tip it was uh you didn't mention that some of the i think that they were the tellerry who did stay they were the first ones to cde anduin and uh as i mentioned there were a lot of different reasons why different lands of elves you know including one of them being the saran uh stayed behind but uh one of the bigger reasons i would say that talking strat is they fell in love with the beauty of arda and they didn't want to leave that and they thought they could create their own beauty craft their own realms within that land that they were viewing and they were saying okay uh you know so betting on valor being better i'm just gonna take the to give him i take this because i know this is good and i can i can prosper and we can mold this we can mold this so i do think it was actually not i don't know exactly which tellerry or where or if you even said it was but one of those did cde and it went for the first being cde and one of the beauty of it and that's what made the fall in love with arda what is the anduin it's a giant river um it goes on the east side of the mountains that we know it's the middle earth because the falls of the rocks and the structure throwing them the movie yeah or more you know he's spoilers pointer you know it's okay and start if you will speak if you will speaking of you with wrongs yes sorry that's my last one too this is why you're here so as much as i would love to go beyond this chapter and show you some wild things about the simrillion it's time to pivot to wisteros so we can go beyond the wall and to learn some wild things about wildlings i do not myself i'm pretty proud of that thank you thank you thank you thank you welcome back and welcome to westeros so like my co-host said we are going to be talking about some wildlings today but let me just clear something up for you real fast the term wildling is a westerosy term um the wildlings don't call themselves wildlings they call themselves the free folk because they have no kings or leaders they kneel for no one or democracy or democracy okay i tried um they actually call everybody from south of the wall kneelers because the people down there they're always bending their knees to the lords and kings so that's the the free folk kneel for no one but um then next before we dive into the clans and all of that good stuff let's describe the vest landscape that they call home so we are now north of the wall we know it's super cold up there um but we're not quite at the lands of always winter yet um that's way way north and that's where the others are from was it lost great job from monsie though um so yes basically it's just a big expansive taiyiga forest which i had to google which i guess i was gonna say i think i'm back in great school about tygens and um it's um it's um the tag of forest is with evergreen trees a lot of evergreen type plants um but plants there are they do have plants they have a forest it's called the haunted forest they have two coasts the eastern coast borders the bay of seals and beyond the bay of seals is um the shivering sea which kind of also connects to the narrow sea it doesn't sound like a nice place to live no you have a haunted forest and a shivering sea shivering sea i think i'm okay well and then you go to the west the west has a long mountain range called the frost fangs and the sunset sea lies over there since that sea never welcome back since i said sorry um the southern border of course is the wall and then no one really knows where the northern border ends because after a certain point no human has explored or documented anything in those uncharted lands or what we call the lands of always winter like it's always cold up there always cold that sounds awful um so to be clear up up here where the free folk live it is bitterly cold most of the time even in summer but it's not in inhabitable um and it's not always snowing and it's not always frozen i think the show kind of gives us that idea that it is but then when you think about it you're like people couldn't live somewhere where there was no vegetation and no animals or anything like that so they do have vegetation they have animals that roam around they do have some small farms that get tended and that's how they are able to carry on without needing to go to the south all the time so there you go no um the free folk do not have any marked borders between them they just have they're just kind of split into clans um but the clay between the clans there's no common law and no common language really there's no official religion you can just kind of follow whichever clan or leader you want to and you can change people have done that um some of the clans have a designated leader some don't some of them are nomadic so they're more like hunter-gatherers and they kind of travel all over some of them live specifically in a village together and they don't roam around a whole lot um so yeah interesting and then they all place a heavy importance on keeping your word and on the idea that the earth is meant to be shared not kept for one king or kingdom but shared is a loose concept because the vast majority of free folk clans gain all of their possessions by sealing them out if they're sharing without letting the person who owns it know that you're okay um so they they don't see sealing as dishonorable more so just like a necessary means of self-preservation so they're just survival of the fast yeah very very much so very Darwin knee yes um it's commendable if not quite honorable to seal yeah and they also do marriage that's kind of how they get a partner as they steal them they steal the partner uh for stealing wives out here yeah they come spear wide um so they do sometimes practice monogamy with someone but they feel affection for but never in a permanent way and john snithers certainly not in a religious manner no ceremonies are had yeah john snithers know nothing you know nothing so now let's dive into all these different clans that we kind of know some of these clans we know a lot about others are mentioned in like a sentence so we don't know a lot about them so we'll start with the ones that that we know a lot about um first is the sense and we know if you remember torman giant spain from show he hates he hates he says i if in the sense he does not like the then they live pretty far north they live in a valley of the frostbang mountains which is on the west side the little valley they live in is called then oh so they're just inventive real original they've been up there for a long time they still think of themselves as first men just like the starks in most of the north men um they speak the old tongue they don't speak the common tongue and they do have a leader that it's called a magnar and the leader is kind of looked at like a god almost almost like a like a zeus or something you know something like that and they're super obedient to this magnar and for that reason they're kind of more disciplined than most of the other free folk clans um and they have some pretty sophisticated methods of producing arms and armor they're fierce fighters and then in present day game at the rounds they're a pretty big deal if you remember rattleshirt from the show he is sothin so my thing is they're like man those southerners always been in the knee but it sounds like yeah they're kind of been in the knee to their magnar yeah and i think where it's different is that he's not asking for like taxes or like extra things to be given to them or is instructing me yeah but i don't i could hear um all right next up we're on the opposite end of the spectrum of the thins we have the white tree villagers white tree is a really small village like really small village it's not far into the haunted forest right kind of northwest of castle black so it's the closest will all settlement to castle black um there is a massive wherewood tree in the middle of the village which gives it what's called white tree and it's got four homes each home it has one room four one room homes they have a sheet fold and a well for water so it's this place has been visited by rangers from the watch enough times that it appears on some of the oldest maps that castle black has and then craster's mother we're gonna talk about craster in a minute but craster's mother was from white tree and then his father was supposedly a member of the wall but she's squirrer now we're gonna go that guy very bad guy so they go um onto craster he has a keep it's not actually a keep it's not a castle or anything like it they kind of call it crasters keep to like muck him a little bit the watchmen do i mean um so anyway he's he's a tenuous friend to the watch he he lets them stay there on their rangers north of the wall kind of on their way north um but he also is pretty he's pretty bad guy he has he does have a fenced in yard rare right so all your real trees if you're ever trying to sell crasters keep it's biggest selling point is a fenced in yard man they got a private backyard um and his house is on top of a low hill in the haunted forest there is a moat around the bottom of the hill um and then all along the back of the hill is his landville oh god but he also has a sheepfold and a pigsty he lives with nineteen wives oh my lord most of his wives are also his daughters oh god no gross he's gross um and then there are lots of other daughters who live in that keep as well that are too young for him to win yet but he will yes yes yes he has no sons which is pointed out frequently when the watchmen are at his keep there are no little boys only little girls and eventually the reader figures out that that's because he sacrifices any sons that are born to him to the cold gods what the and we don't really know what that means we not see this in game of crowns you see you see it but it but in the book you don't you just know that this is what he says but he does so the cold gods can give truns interpret that as the white walkers but in the books obviously white walkers aren't but they're not the main force of that yeah there's no night king in the books so it's not like you i think it's a john pov chapter um where you see him you see craster take a baby boy into the woods john sees it happen but john doesn't see what happens to that baby afterwards he just knows there's like a cold presence there in the woods with them the show tells you what happens afterwards and has the night king taking the baby and transforming it into it yeah which that we don't know is it's really not like that it makes sense um and then craster also likes to brag about how he's not afraid of winter because he has made himself right with the gods and we assume that is the cold gods uh they're not gonna harm him because he gives them all his sons so yeah that's craster he gross yeah he's not as elixir toky next for right now game with ron's ex for his son not a good guy not a good guy not a good that's the money one a lot of time no i'm good um all right next speaking of war rings this this little grip of free folk reminds me of hobbits a little bit they're called the hornfoots they live near the frostfangs so kind of near the thins and they are known for not wearing anything on their feet which causes their feet to turn black so it just a little bit reminds me of hobbits because hobbits don't wear shoes either um but they have some chiefs that they look to for leadership but not in a godlike way the way that the thins do um and they are always kind of at war with this other clan called the nightrunners but then mance raider comes along and brokers a piece between them uh mance raider is the king beyond the wall he's kind of this dude that gets all these different wilding clans to kind of get along and work towards a common goal so we'll talk about mance unifying the wildlings yeah he has one of the best names and and joty books me it's raider the great name and there's a lot of theories about him that we would get to in a different episode but um so speaking of the nightrunners that the hornfoots are always fighting with we don't really know anything about them because the only time they're mentioned is in that sentence where it says the hornfoots are always trying to fight with the nightrunners you give a really cool clan name and then write nothing about them it's the nightrunners like come on it's george they were uh and then next up we've got ice river clans these people live furthest west on the riverbanks of the ice rivers near at the kind of the foot of the frostfangs these people are said to be cannibals um and they they don't like the men of the frozen shore which we were going to talk about in a second um and then again they don't like these men of the frozen shore until mance rater brokers a piece between them like i get unifying all the wildlings but mance couldn't look at these people and see their cannibals and be like man we don't trust them maybe we leave them on the ice river we've let them do their own thing um and then the men of the frozen shore we know a little bit more about them they're they're actually split into two there's two clans within the clan um and the way you tell the difference between them is that one of them wears antlers on their heads and then there's others that wear walrus tusks kind of around their mouth um those two little groups don't like each other but they will join together to fight the ice river clans that's kind of their deal really yes um they're different from other free folk because they do actually have kind of a religion they worship what they call the gods of snow and ice uh rather than the old gods most of the other free folk would just tell you that they follow the old gods um and that's about it and then the fun fact these men of the frozen shore ride sleds pulled by dogs and that they do that so they can herd and breed reindeer they're pulled by smooshies we love reindeers i love reindeers um it's very fascinating especially tonyore yes see um and they raid bair island off ender island we know bair island but one soldier of bair island is that of 60 soldiers or whatever yes indeed so these men of sorry men of the frozen shore are the ones usually if somebody on bair island has been raided or stolen from it's probably a man of the frozen shore okay and last up for our clan section is the cave dwellers the cave dwellers live around like near and around thin valley in the frostbangs but they are not thin they die and paint their faces like blue green and purple but it's not really known what those colors mean they also filed their teeth into sharp points oh god again we don't really know why just yes i guess um and they are rumored to worship an underground god that is like a dark god so we don't we don't we don't we don't tease filing and underground god it sounds a little culty i'm okay i believe that not too we don't we don't bring them into the union we could um and then present day and notable characters that in a future episode i want to do like a character deep dive on a lot of these but since this one we're just kind of introducing you to wildlings and beyond the wall and all that type of stuff i'm just gonna give you a list that we will revisit later um first up was the guy with cool name man's reader great name great name but i think there's also a great name to torman giants vane oh wow i am torman to the good name it is um rattle shirt is a good name and he's a rattling shirt on he wants to made a bones oh this he is also called rattle shirt is also called the lord of bones is he a candle i'm sorry good uh and then dala and val those are two ladies that i like they're they're actually they're actually dala dala bills you know um val is actually one of my low-key favorite characters even though that she hardly gets she doesn't get mentioned very often but i do want to do a deep dive on her at some point and then i forgot to add her to the list but we can't forget egret oh yeah egret is gonna be a deep dive at some point in the future as well so that's it on the uh no not the children the uh wildlings or the free folk the free folk yeah you guys ready to dive into children of the forest yeah i want to questions on these people okay well they're not people oh they're watching those creatures beings yeah all right so children of the forest it makes sense to talk about them at the same time as wildlings because in present day game of thrones they only live um beyond the wall basically they're unless unless some of them maybe live on the isle of faces which we'll get to um but pretty much they don't exist in westrows anymore they only live beyond the wall so but the children they're old they've been around since the dawn age which is like kind of the first age in in the history of game of thrones the dawn age is like the beginning of time um they're only referred to as children by humans because they're small and stature but they are not human and they're also not childlike so they can live for centuries before the first men arrived they lived all over the continent of westrose kind of in tandem with the giants although sometimes the giants and the children would kind of war back and forth whole I know there's one sentence where leaf leaf is a child of the forest and she's talking to a brand and she says something like the giants are our bane and our brothers so they're like the bane of our existence but also our brothers from these from these so you've been talking about me from 12 to 16 for me new um the only places in western host where there's no evidence that the children ever lived are dawn the children called dorn the empty land so that's a desert yeah um and then they there's also no evidence that the children ever made their way over to the iron so oh the children speak the true tongue which is a language it's more so language of sounds in songs than actual words it's the same language I speak when I first wake up yes indeed the sounds of nature another grump in the morning um so they in their own language they call themselves the those who sing the song of the earth which is just indicating that they're very connected to nature earth etc kind of like the elves that we turn in border rings um they're nature centric yeah super grounded and rooted in the earth and taking care of the earth so the sounds in their language that they make are based on nature so like a babbling brook or like a soft wind or you know things like that so but their voices are said to be very pure you're yes this is what they look like they have nut brown skin it is dabbled with paler spots like a deer so think of like a baby deer that's you know dabbled skin it is until they do their closet you oh they have large ears that can hear things that humans cannot hear which is useful they have large golden green eyes that are slitted like a cat oh which helps them see well in a dark passageway they only have three fingers in a thumb but their fingernails their not fingernails their sharp black claws so they can climb they're able to kind of moles their whole pair of eye now yeah um they're quick and graceful they like to weave leaves vines flowers things like that into their hair and then all of their clothing is made from leaves this helps them blend into their surroundings easily as well as connects them back to nature um if a baby like a baby child of the forest is born with a big child with purely green or purely red eyes those are said to be chosen by the old gods and they have green sight where they're called green seers which means usually they can kind of see the future in the past they've got these like prophetic visions so i see a note coming up and it was my exact question um so they these babies the children these kids i guess it's hard to because they're called the children but um the green seers that are born to the children of the forest they typically don't live very long whereas most children of the forest can live like hundreds and hundreds of years these don't live very long unless they get bound to a wherewood tree i don't know what that process entails it's just what it says is just they have to get bound to a wherewood tree and then they can live for a super long time like even longer than regular children of the forest so my question is is this what blood raven has become we talked about blood raven in the last episode it does pretty specifically state he's like intertwined in the tree in the roots of the tree so i assume it's the same thing the green seers need to be which is a terrible existence i feel like but yeah but that's how he can see so many things that's why he's still alive after all this time future future schmoshur past schmast i'm i'm a food you can eat food for your stuck in a tree the roots feed you yeah but i want she's and then my better question is is this what brain will be i think yes but that's my theory tbt if you ever write that if you ever write or if brand refuses to do this does that mean brand is going to die young oh i like to say it definitely has been chosen yes yep yep so there you have that fun little question that we really don't have an answer to but maybe we will if you ever write so they will maybe uh other than so that's kind of their you know appearance the children's appearance culturally um they maybe kind of lived in clans but they were nomadic they lived off the land they did not use money no cloth no medals no cities no books no written language it's pretty clear none of that stuff existed they used stone and obsidian in all of their weapons and tools bark vines and leaves made of all their clothing so there was no need for like trade really or anything like that because they just used what was right in front of them men and women could hunt together power power to the power to the power to the women in yes they're here progressive so progressive um but the hunters called themselves the woods dancers and then eventually those that could hunt would eventually become warriors when the first men showed up and they started to kind of battle with the first men um it was their former hunters turned warriors but there they had their weapons where where would bows snares made from grasses and then obsidian tipped arrows swords things like i think we touched on this in previous episode but i'm baffled that you can make weapons from where would yes it's like this taboo yeah i would agree oh maybe it's like a twig that already fell that's true i don't know but yeah i would think you're not supposed to cut that's a good point yeah i don't think you're supposed to cut although we have established a tree set somewhat sentience a power somewhere maybe they gift a branch or something like that yeah that could be it's also pretty pretty much canon that the children of the forest were gifted with this powerful magic and they used it to their advantage on multiple occasions um that's a fun thing about Westeros is like this magic stuff like it's pretty confirmed in several different instances that not then they use the magic in the magic word um so whereas other i feel like on other series it's like oh we can science explain that magic away or whatever you know um this one's pretty pretty confirmed but um they have power over animals and beasts which comes in handy especially i would guess when they're hunting um they can wear an animal's skin is but that's word for word with the books as they can wear an animal skin it's form i'm assuming it means like warg and if you watch the show you saw there was a couple different characters who could warg brand can warg into his wolf i think that's what they mean by that i don't think they actually mean they're skinning an animal and wearing it yeah i think it just means they can like kind of get into the mindset of an animal um but it sounds yeah and then they create this beautiful music that's their language um but it's said to bring the listen any listeners to tears wow and then some of them have green sight we talked about them already and then some of them are also able to speak to the den which is weird but cool um the children are the ones who cut all the faces into the werewood trees oh they did that to keep watch over the woods i thought the trees just grew with the face on the children and they didn't do that until the first men showed up uh so the trees were just trees until the men so the trees don't have power well that's they do interest okay i thought they were sent in but they're not they just have power yeah they're the the gods use the trees to see it's almost like a facilitator of power the old gods i should guess um yeah um and another thing about the children they believe that once they die they become part of the werewood connection underground which is basically the old gods that's how they operate their connection of werewood roots underground so yeah um the next big thing with the children that i wanted to talk about is the pact we've already kind of touched on the pact in episode one but just wanted to revisit it real quick to point out some more details now that we've circled back so we know the pact happened 10,000 years before present day game of thrones it was made between the children of the forest and the first men after the children used their magic to bring down the hammer of the waters which broke the arm of dawn resulting in the stepstones which is a series of islands instead of a whole land bridge uh and the stepstones as you saw the stepstones in house the dragon if you remember season one um so that's where that came from we also know that the pact that they made the two parties made on the isle of faces which is an island in the middle of a lake the lake is called the god's eye and that whole area is real close to heron hall and we know there are some important events i take place we sure did at this very spot so let's dive into the pact a little bit so who was in the room where it happened we're on the isle we're on the right up in uh we know it was the green seers and the wood dancers on the children's side so kind of their leaders a little bit their warriors and their people that can see the future then the first men brought their heroes and chiefs don't know what that means but some big guns big guns were in the room where it happened what did they agree on they agreed that the children would retain the still standing forests so the first men would not try to fell anymore forest land and then the first men therefore can settle all of the open lands so the coastlands high plains meadows mountains bogs and then no more chopping of wherewoods that's a very important role no more chopping and then how did they seal the deal um one they carved faces into every wherewood on the isle before the pact was made so that the old gods could bear witness to this pact and remember the old gods know if you're lying they can tell and they do not like that they don't like that they don't like that cut that out and don't be lying never sometimes they made them put their hand into the tree yes the trees mouth before you would say a vow um and then together i still find this interesting and it's still a big old mystery there's not hardly anything about these people on the wiki or in the world of ice and fire so anyway here we go both of these parties children and the first men establish this sacred order called the green men to maintain and keep watch over this isle of faces where all these werewoods are which i would assume means there's lots of kind of magical power on this island um yeah we're gonna circle back to these green men in just a second so um how did the pact play out well it ended the donnage and then ushered in the age of heroes which is kind of the second age if we're doing lord of the rings that would be the donnage is the first age the age of heroes is the second age you know there were four thousand years of peace between the children and the first men and then the long night came and the birth of the seven kingdoms after that so then you know this held up pretty well for well until the andals oh boy until they done showed up missed you those andals um so yeah all in all the pact lasted about five thousand years which i would say is but you know i was not bad longer than most modern alliances and and uh yeah and became themselves yeah so i think it was good successful good deal successful pact yes all right so let's go back to these green men and then i think i'm done after that but all right the green men they're referred to as the sacred order so i kind of picture monks that like to garden oh you know that's some gardeny monks yeah um they there is some outlandish stories about them that claim they have green skin and horns i don't think that's true the masters from old town say it's just their clothing that's green and sometimes they might have a headdress with antlers um old man we love old man we love her she says that the green men can ride elk wow um and then but what we do know about them is that they were able to hold the isla faces during the andal invasion the andals could not even access the isla faces because the green men on their isle were able to fend them off i was i called down the west rosy hippies but they can fight so maybe i lord they can use it uh there it is yeah i don't know no one else but supposedly they are still they're um breeding you know ten thousand years later so who knows not know notable visitors to the isla faces one of them is strike through because it's a spoiler for house the dragons i'm not gonna talk about that one but the second one that we know about in the game thrones books is the night of the laughing tree from the story that mira and jojian tell brand about the attorney at her and hall that that nad star attended as a young child um and there was this magical night showed up and entered attorney ended up winning the turnie but he calls himself the night of the laughing tree he supposedly visited the isla faces before he entered himself into the turnie wow i'm sure in the show sure in the show sure in the show we will see however your house of dragons yes oh for sure i'm there's no way they're not gonna if they don't i'll be mad but yeah there's no way they're not gonna put that in there i'm guessing it's gonna happen towards the end of season three okay let me interesting say come on see what they what's picture like yeah i do too because you don't really get to see it in no though um so yeah there you have it i hope you enjoyed learning some tidbits about the wildlings the children of three folk sorry they're not kneelers no children of the forest there are some of my groups in a series just because they're so unique i think they're not yeah and they're in the kind of for the most part stay out of the politics they get straight to the root of like hey there's some bad coming and we all need to fight it they stay out of the southern politics for the most part but yeah and they've been around for so long i feel like obviously we're doing something right right yeah and then again especially with the wildlings we will come back to some individual character breakdowns in later episodes i just want to start with an overview perfect that was very informative very importantly well fellow adventurers that is a wrap for today's journey into the realms of we hope you've enjoyed journeying through the histories mysteries and fascinating lore of these worlds we will return with insights last and maybe even some unexpected dragons of wisdom along the way next up in our middle earth adventure we will learn a valinor valerian and seanor our tour of west rails will take us to the riverlands and we will be introduced to the tully family until then stay curious and keep the conversation going on our socials and thank you for tuning in and remember the best adventures are the ones we take together we swear it by the old gods and the new peace