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Hi, it's Kristen. We wanted to bring you much more for my interview this week with former Vice President Mike Pence. When we sat down at his home in Indiana, I asked him how he views the second Trump administration. Some of that you've already heard on Meet the press.
But Mr. Pence also spoke about his own political future and about his successor, J.D. vance. Here now is the full audio from our conversation.
Vice President Mike Pence, welcome back to MEET THE press. It's good to be back, Kristen, and welcome to DNA. Thank you. It is an honor to be here and to sit and have this conversation with you.
I want to ask you about the Trump administration. We're now past the first 100 days of President Trump in office. Mr. Vice President, what do you see as the single biggest difference between the Trump Pence administration and the Trump?
ANTHONY well, first, I want, as I did in January, I congratulate the president on his historic victory returning to the White House. And I think it was a testament to his appeal among tens of millions of Americans. But President, I also believe it was in many ways an endorsement of the success of our administration, where we rebuilt the military, revived the economy, appointed conservatives to our courts at every level. And I think the president's been off to a strong start moving on many of the same issues that we moved on.
He's secured the southern border in a historic way, engaged in internal enforcement, restored morale in our military, recruitment is now exceeding goals in every branch of our service. And I think taking the fight to the Houthis in the Red Sea all demonstrate that President Trump hasn't lost a step in terms of his bias for action and his instinct for leadership. But in the midst of all of that, I have seen some departure from the policies of our administration both at home and abroad, where we pass across the board tax cuts. There are some in and around the White House that are actually advocating raising taxes on upper income Americans.
And of course, economic policies of tariffs against friend and foe alike is very different from how we operated. We very much used the threat of tariffs as leverage for negotiations. Kristen. But on so called Liberation Day, President Trump announced broad based tariffs, so called reciprocal tariffs on nations all over the world.
And while he paused those and now has again paused tariffs on China, what I see in this administration is a steady drive toward a baseline of maybe even 10% tariffs that I think would be harmful to jobs in America, be harmful to consumers in America. And ultimately we've expressed that concern. And on the foreign stage, we stood with our allies, stood up to our enemies. And while I've been encouraged at the president's recent steps and statements with regard to to confronting the Russian invasion in Ukraine, the wavering support of the administration over the first hundred days, I think it's only emboldened of Vladimir Putin.
But my hope is that the president understands at the end of the day we will achieve peace in Eastern Europe. We'll secure peace around the world through American leadership and strength. Mr. Vice President, I want to follow up on something that you just said about what President Trump has called his big beautiful bill.
It would include extending most of the Trump era tax cuts. But there is some discussion about potentially raising taxes on the highest income earners. Is that something you would ever support or do you think that that should be a no? I think that should be a no person for two reasons.
Number one is the American people are still recovering from the failed economic policies of the Biden administration that drove the worst inflation in 40 years. But so the idea of raising the top marginal rate, there's some voices around the president outside the White House. They're talking about raising it to 40%, which is even higher than what Kamala Harris proposed. I think that'd be an enormous tax increase on small business owners and job creators around America and it should be opposed.
But it's not just bad economics, it's also bad politics. It's something I know something about as a 30 year old man. I was running for Congress in 1990, Kristen, when President George Herbert Walker Bush raised taxes in a bipartisan deal on Capitol Hill. It was heralded by many people in the press, but at the end of the day, Republicans pay a very dear price.
We're the party that cuts taxes and I think extending all of the Trump pence tax cuts has to be the leading domestic priority of this administration. Well, it is the big focus. We'll continue to watch the debate unfold, as I'm sure you will as well. I wonder, Mr.
Vice President, how do you think your successor, Vice President J.D. vance, is doing? Well, I would have a hard time Assessing that precisely. But he's an honorable man, Karen, and I pray often for him and Usha and appreciate his willingness to serve the nation.
But somebody told me the other day, they said, I know things are a lot different in the West Wing than when you were there. And I just smiled and said, actually, I don't think they're different at all. There's one person in the West Wing that makes the decisions, and I think everyone around him does well to make sure he has the broadest range of counsel and information to make the best decision for the American people. When you say you'd have a difficult time assessing that, why is that?
Why? Why can't you assess at this point, after 100 days, how the vice president's doing in office? Well, I think he's carrying himself well publicly. And so I don't mean to gainsay that at all.
But for me, the principal role of the vice president in my four years was the opportunity to be an advisor to the president. I was, more often than not the last person in the room and the president. I had a great working relationship. You saw it firsthand on many occasions.
We were different men, different personalities, but we developed a kind of relationship where President Trump was not just my president, he was my friend. And I took the opportunity, in the right settings, private moments, to share within those times when we differed on issues. And my hope is, whether it's the vice president or others, that there are those voices around the president that do the same, because one of the best guys secrets in America is that President Donald Trump listens. In our administration, we were able to build that extraordinary record of prosperity and peace around the world because we have a broad range of viewpoints and a president who knew how to make a decision.
Sir, given everything that you are saying, is there any part of you that wishes you were vice president right now that you were still in the White House? You know, it's a greatest privilege of my life to be vice President of the United States, and. But I have to tell you, in the last four years, including through my campaign for president, we've been blessed in every way that matters. And the opportunity for me to take that experience in the White House, as a governor here in Indiana and as a member of Congress for 12 years, and to put it into practice as someone who's advocating the kind of ideals and principles that have always made this country strong and prosperous and free, that's my calling in my life right now.
And we don't look back. All right, let me ask you about President Trump's first official overseas trip to the Middle east this week, where he met with the newly installed President of Syria. He dropped all of the sanctions against that country despite Israel's opposition. The trip occluded stops in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the uae, but he did not stop in Israel.
Sir, what message do you think President Trump's trip sent to Israel overall? Well, first off, I think it was a very successful trip for the American economy. The president secured a financial commitments in all three countries, including a historic contract for purchasing Boeing aircraft that'll really support American jobs. And I don't gain say that, but Kristen, I've never been a fan of American presidents criticizing America on foreign soil.
And to have the President in Saudi Arabia questioning America's global war on terror and describing it as nation building, an intervention, as I thought, was a disservice to generations of Americans who wore the uniform, who took the fight to our enemy in Afghanistan and in Iraq, and particularly giving that speech in Saudi Arabia where 15 of the 19, 9, 11 hijackers hailed from in not including Osama bin Laden. I thought was was unfortunate. What did you make of the fact that President Trump didn't stop in Israel? Yeah, in our administration, we had really two pillars of our foreign policy across the Middle East.
Number one, we made it clear that America stands with Israel. And number two, we contained Iran economically, diplomatically and strategically. And we marshaled, as the President did on that first trip eight years ago, we marshaled the support of other nations across the region, including Saudi Arabia and others, to join with us in an alliance against Iran's sowing terrorism around the region, around the world. In this trip, I thought it was a missed opportunity not to also travel to Israel, as President Trump did eight years ago, because I think sending a message to the Arab world that we're prepared to engage, we're prepared to support, we want economic commerce, we want strategic and security engagement.
But in that trip eight years ago, he also made a point to fly to Israel and make it clear that if the world knows nothing else, the world knows this, then America stands with Israel. Now, there were people that said that our efforts and the President's decision to move the American Embassy to Jerusalem to recognize the Golan Heights would be disrupted, that it would create and foment violence in the region. But there we were, seated on the South Lawn of the White House in the fall of 2020, signing the first peace agreement between Israel and two Arab nations in 25 years in the Abraham Accords. So for me, not only the President's decision to not travel to Israel on this trip was a missed opportunity.
But also I have concerns about excluding Israel from the ceasefire with the Houthis. And also I have concerns about what I hear about negotiations and discussions with Iran. You take me to my next question. Let's talk about those negotiations and discussions with Iran.
The administration is holding direct talks with Iran in an attempt to get them to give up their nuclear weapons program. And there's a big debate right now. Is the goal total dismantlement of Iran's nuclear program or is it okay for Iran to have a civilian nuclear program, as, for example, Secretary of State Marco Rubio has indicated as a possibility? Where do you stand, Mr.
Vice President? Does Iran need to totally dismantle its nuclear program in order for there to be any deal in your perspective? Iran is the leading state sponsor of terrorism in the world, and the mollus and Tehran cannot be trusted. They have breathed violence against our most sharest ally, Israel, for generations.
Now they possess the missiles that could fly to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in a matter of minutes. So I am grateful that President Trump has reiterated the policy of our administration that Iran will not be permitted to obtain a nuclear weapon. The security of America, the security of Israel, the stability of the region in the world demands that we enforce that. But from my standpoint, when I hear talk about allowing Iran to have an enrichment program at a certain level, it sounds for all the world like President Obama's Iran nuclear deal that we, that we got out of in the first year of our administration.
I mean, I think the American people know that Iran, that is oil rich and energy rich, doesn't need a civilian nuclear program. And our objective should make it clear in negotiations with Iran that their current nuclear program must be either dismantled or destroyed. And just to be very clear, I mean, Iran is closer to developing a nuclear weapon than at any point in the past. Is there any other option other than holding these talks?
Well, there's one other option. And we need to make it clear to them that, that America is not bluffing, that we will. We will not allow them to continue to enrich Iranian. We will not allow them to continue to develop a potential for a nuclear program.
I think the Secretary of State said that they're dangerously close. I think he's right. So you're saying an attack should be on the table? Well, of course I think all options should be on the table, but that's what negotiation can be about.
I'm very skeptical about Iran. I mean, we took action during our administration. We didn't hesitate to use force. We took out Qasem Soleimani, the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
We contained Iran. We made it clear to them that we would use force, and President Trump did in our first four years, to prosecute our interests in the region. As they sowed violence and discord, as they supported the militias across Syria and northern Iraq, and as they tacitly supported isis, as our military took down ISIS caliphate in our four years. I honestly believe that one of President Trump's great accomplishments in that first administration was, was the credible threat of the use of force and the willingness to use force, whether it be against isis taking down the Iranian general or firing cruise missiles into Syria.
I think that's a message to Iran, and I think we should send no other message. Then their nuclear program must be dismantled or destroyed or the United States will act. Let me ask you about another aspect of President Trump's trip. He said that he was going to accept a $400 million luxury jet from Qatar to use as a temporary Air Force One.
He said he'll eventually donate that to his presidential library. Do you think President Trump should accept a military aircraft from Qatar? Well, I think first we got to remember who Qatar is. We've got a military base there.
I have members of our media family that have deployed to the region. But Qatar has a long history of playing both sides. They support Hamas, they supported Al Qaeda. Qatar has actually financed pro Hamas protests on American campuses across the United States.
And so the very idea that we would accept an Air Force One from Qatar, I think is inconsistent with our security, with our intelligence needs. And my hope is the president reconsiders it. I think if Qatar wants to make a gift to the United States, they ought to take that $400 million and plow it into infrastructure on their military base. So you're saying President Trump should turn down this plane?
I think he should. I think. Look, others have observed there are profound issues, potential for intelligence gathering, the need to ensure the president of the United States is safe and secure as he travels around the world, and of course, other. There are very real constitutional issues.
The Constitution prohibits public officials from accepting a present, in the words of the Constitution, a present from a foreign state. Now, they may have some basis through chain of titles, through avoiding that, but it's just a bad idea. And I hope this president will think better of it. I wonder what your reaction is to something that former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley said.
She said accepting the gift, quote, unquote, opens a door and implies the president and the US can be bought. Do you agree with former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley? America cannot be bought. We're the most powerful nation on Earth.
But if I was talking to the president right now instead of you, I'd say for the security of our nation, for your security, you should recognize it's a bad look. Let's get. Let's get Boeing to get those new Air Force ones done. President want to give a new paint job.
He's entitled to do that. But that's a better course than accepting an aircraft from a country again that has supported Hamas, supported Al Qaeda, and literally played. Played against American interest across the region for years. Broadly speaking, the president's family has half a dozen active business ventures in the countries he just visited.
Sir. And this week, the president is planning to host a private dinner for the biggest investors in his meme coin. Back in 2016, right after the election, you said, and I'll quote from you, you said, I promise you he will leave his business life in the past. Do you feel like that promise has been kept?
Well, I know that in our time together, he divested contact with his business and. But I have no way of knowing the degree to which he is aware of these various business ventures. But most of us in public life, it's important not only to be above impropriety, but to be above the appearance of impropriety. And I would.
I would urge him and members of his family to reflect on that and uphold the high standards for the President of the United States. Do you have concerns about those potential business ventures that we're learning about for President Trump? Well, we, you know, we just spent four years tracking down a whole lot of business ventures in the Biden family that were deeply problematic and, and created an air of corruption around that family. And I think the American people are entitled to know all the facts.
People are entitled to transparency. And I would. I would urge the president and his family that I came to know quite well to live up to that high standard. Does any part of you regret saying back in 2016, I promise you he will leave his business life in the past?
No. Look, he built extraordinary business around the world. And in my time in the White House, my sense is that's exactly what he did. He focused on the work of the American people.
And I have to tell you, Kristen, I couldn't be more proud of the record of the Trump Pence administration. I mean, it didn't end the way I wanted it to, but what we were able to do to rebuild our military, to revive our economy, to appoint conservatives to our courts that gave us a new beginning for the right to life and upheld religious liberty. And all are going to be a source of great satisfaction for the rest of my life. Let me ask you about an issue that you raised.
President Trump's tariffs obviously have been a big theme of the second administration. President Trump says foreign countries pay for the tariffs. He says they're going to make the country rich. And yet you have said you.
You've called them the Trump tariff tax. Why? Well, first off, the initial reciprocal tariffs that he unveiled would be the largest peacetime tax hike on the American people in the history of this country. As I said, I'm glad he's paused that.
And as we're seated here, I understand the president is going to make an offer to 150 countries. But look, he and I talk many times about trade here in Indiana. We're one of the leading exporting states in the country. What we make here, what we grow and raise here, we sell around the world.
I've always believed that trade means jobs, but I came to respect President Trump's willingness to use the threat of tariffs to negotiate, as we did with the new trade deal with Canada and Mexico, renegotiated South Korea. We were well down the road of a trade agreement with Japan, with the UK with the EU during our time. But there's no question in this administration that he is surrounded, it appears to me, with people that nurture his more protectionist instincts. And as the president has said to me many times, he has a sense that other countries pay tariffs when the reality is when Americans buy goods overseas, the company that imports those goods in this country pays the tariff more often than not, passes that along in higher prices to consumers.
And I worry about inflation. We just heard Walmart made the announcement that they'll be raising prices in the wake of these tariffs. My view of tariffs overall is this. We ought to be aggressively negotiating for free trade with free nations.
We ought to use the threat of leverage to bring down trade barriers and subsidies. But with regard to China, Kristen, I will tell you, I don't think we can be too tough on China. I know the president has paused. He's brought it down to 30% now.
But we proved in our administration by imposing $250 billion in tariffs on China, that they came to the table. We did what came to be known as the phase one trade deal for the United States and China. We saw it as just the beginning because China has been engaging in decades of trade abuses, intellectual property theft, and I think, again, free trade with free nations. But let's stay really tough on China until they come to the table, open their markets and address these long term issues that have beset our relationship.
Well, to that point, let me ask you about the tariffs from the first term. They added some $80 billion in higher prices for Americans, increased prices on things like tires and washing machines. Why didn't you say there are tax during the first administration? Well, I probably did in the hallways, but the President gets to make the decision.
Told President Trump that directly. Well, sure, but when you're Vice President of the United States, my view was always this. I'd favor the President with the full range of my opinion in private. And then when he made the decision, my job is to support his decision absent some higher calling or higher obligation that one has.
And I fully supported his approach on terrorists. But I was never confused about who pays tariffs. But look, look at the record of our economy. I mean, 6 million new jobs, factories that came back to America, the steps that we took, rolling back regulations, unleashing American energy, these are all the policies that will make America grow.
What we did not do was the kind of across the board broad based tariffs that at the end of the day, I think is the goal of this administration is a minimum tariff of 10% on every country in the world. And that would be essentially an increase of four times the average tariff in America today. American consumers have paid the price. So do you acknowledge, sir, that Americans did pay higher taxes in the form of tariffs due to the tariffs imposed on President Trump's first term?
I really have to go back because the economy is growing so rapidly that in those specific areas where we impose tariffs, particularly with regard to China, there may have been some price impact. But remember, wages were rising at the fastest pace in a decade under our administration and more Americans were working than ever before in minority communities around the country. And so there may have been a de minimis impact, but overall it was a, it was a prescription for American prosperity and it still is. Let me ask you about the war in Ukraine.
There were talks in Turkey this week between Russia and Ukraine, but none of the principles were there. President Zelensky was there. President Putin wasn't there. President Trump wasn't there.
President Trump said the only way to get a deal is for him to meet with Putin face to face. Knowing what you know about Vladimir Putin, Mr. Vice President, do you think he will be ever be serious about making a deal? It's been roughly three years since Russia launched its unprovoked, brutal invasion into Ukraine.
Hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost at the odds of the war. I actually traveled with my wife across the border to a refugee center, saw hundreds and hundreds of women and children of every age fleeing from the Russian invasion. I would return there a year or so back and meet with President Zelensky and hear again about the horrors and depredations of the Russian military. I've met Vladimir Putin.
My judgment is Vladimir Putin only understands strength. And President Zelensky has agreed to a ceasefire, a 30 day ceasefire that our European allies called for. Vladimir Putin calls a meeting that he doesn't show up for. So I honestly think the time has come for President Trump to impose harsh sanctions on Russia and also to increase military support for Ukraine.
I think those two messages making it clear in combination with President's good recent dialogue with President Zelensky that took place in the Vatican, in addition, the new mineral deal, which I think sent a definite message to Moscow that America and Ukraine are here to stay. I think the time is now for sanctions against Russia, additional sanctions against Russia, Kristen, and also a renewed military support for Ukraine. I think that and only that has the potential to bring Vladimir Putin to the table and achieve a just and lasting peace. What you're saying is significant because there's discussion about imposing new sanctions.
The administration has said that would scuttle any potential talks. You're saying the time for talks right now is over. That in order to get put Putin back to the negotiating table, sanctions need to happen right now. Look, if Vladimir Putin has proved anything over the long and brutal history of this war is that Putin doesn't want peace, he wants Ukraine.
I mean, he, he attempted to redo international lines in the country of Georgia under the Bush administration. He took a Crimea from Ukraine under the Obama administration. But because of the strength that President Trump showed and our investments in our military and the willingness to use force, he never even tried to redraw international lines during our four years. It was under Joe Biden, after that Afghanistan disastrous withdrawal that Vladimir Putin and the Russian tanks rolled across the Ukrainian border.
It's clear to me, just as an individual, my assessment, having studied Putin for years, what his ambitions are. He wants to reassert the old sphere of influence of the former Soviet Union. The only way he will be prevented from doing that is if we make it clear that Russia will pay a price in sanctions. I think secondary sanctions against countries that are doing business with Russia should be on the table and should move forward immediately.
Renewed military support. I honestly believe it's the only hope to Adjust and lasting peace. I do have to ask you about that Oval Office disastrous meeting, that blow up between Vice President J.D. vance, President Trump and President Zelensky.
A lot has happened since then. But, sir, when you watch that unfold, what was your gut reaction? Well, my gut reaction was I've been a lot of meetings in the Oval Office like that. Just only one I remember with cameras on.
Look, it is a virtue of President Trump when he's dealing with foreign leaders that he doesn't gloss over things. He gives it to him straight and that allows for a real dialogue. I thought it was unfortunate was that that took place in front of the worldwide media and involved an ally who has been beset by an unspeakable and vicious invasion by the Russian military. But I want to give President Trump credit.
Traveling to Pope Francis funeral, sitting as he was needed in the Vatican, securing the mineral deal. I think the president's providing the kind of leadership that could provide a pathway for peace. But I think now is the time for more sanctions on Russia and more military support for Ukraine. You were a part of the first Trump administration where there was an aggressive effort to deport immigrants who were here who were undocumented.
Now this White House, in an effort to speed up deportation, sir, is considering suspending habeas corpus. And just so our audience understands that's the constitutional right to challenge one's detention by the government. Would you support the Trump administration suspending habeas corpus? Well, first, let's remember that the Biden administration threw open the southern border, created the worst crisis at our southern border in the history of this country.
10 million people, many of whom were, frankly exploited by cartels, who took them on a long and dangerous journey up through Central America to come to our border, and they've disappeared into the country. But among them are many very dangerous criminal illegal aliens. And I support President Trump's leadership in securing the border, and I strongly support their efforts at internal enforcement to identify dangerous criminal illegal aliens and remove them from the United States. The Supreme Court made it clear that individuals in that category were here illegally and committed crimes, have been a threat to our communities.
And our families need to be given reasonable due process. But I have confidence in Tom Holman, who I came to know admired in our administration, that he is exercising that. But with regard to habeas corpus, I would tell you the Constitution says that it can be suspended in the event of an invasion. I think that issue, which I think President Abraham Lincoln used in the midst of the Civil War, ought to be an issue of last resort.
But I strongly support what the administration is doing at the border and an internal enforcement. And ultimately, I believe the Supreme Court stepped in with Abraham Lincoln, said, look, this has to be up to Congress. And the president told me the border is secure. Do you think there's an innovation right now that justifies spending?
Higgs Court Justice Quickly well, I think that's the right question, Chris, and I really think it is. And I think, you know, I picked Constitution very seriously and but this is a matter that I'm confident our courts, especially our Supreme Court, will get right and doing a way that reflects our highest ideals. When I asked President Trump if he needs to uphold the Constitution in reference to his deportation battles, he told me, quote, I don't know. Do you trust President Trump to uphold the Constitution in all instances?
I think President Trump understands his obligation. So, yes, support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Watching that interview, I thought he was deferring to his lawyers on a specific question. But the president, I have had our differences, but I think he understands what his obligation is to support, defend the Constitution and see that the laws are faithfully executed.
Former FBI Director James Comey posted a picture of seashells he says he saw on a beach that were arranged to say 86, 47. Some of the president's allies interpreted that as a threat, and Comey deleted the post, said he did not understand it to be a threat if it was. President Trump is now saying it is clear that Comey meant assassination. Do you think that is what former FIA Director James Comey meant?
Well, after two assassination attempts against President Trump, well, I thank God he was fair. The former FBI director should have known better and should have been more careful. Look, you know, I have some experience with threats against me and my family, and I think threats against any public official need to be thoroughly investigated and where appropriate, prosecuted the fullest extent of the law. So I, I expect the US Secret Service is doing their due diligence and they're going to do an investigation.
But, Jim, come, you should have known better. Last month, President Trump directed the attorney general to review two people he considers to be political foes, including Chris Kreps, who's the election official who called the 2020 election the most secure in American history. Do you ever worry that President Trump will order an investigation into you for your actions on January 6th? I don't worry about it.
I regret some of the review thinking this administration's been doing for people that did their job. Some of the cancellation of security details around people like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and John Bolton, I think, have been regrettable. Elections are about the future. And I think the American people elected President Trump to return to the White House to focus on the future.
And if I had a word with him, I'd encourage him to keep eyes forward and. And embrace the better angels of his nature in all these issues. You were recently awarded the Don F. Kennedy Profile Encourage Award for your actions on January 6th.
President Trump pardoned nearly 1600 people who were criminally charged in connection with their actions. On January 6th. You said that pardoning people who assaulted law enforcement, quote, sent the wrong message. What message did those pardons send, sir?
Well, first, let me say I was deeply humbled by the recognition that we received from the John F. Kennedy Library. President Kennedy was a hero from my youth. Still is.
And to be in any way associated with his. His legacy and Americans that he wrote about in his famous book was one of the greatest honors of my life. And I'm truly grateful. Look, I will always believe, by God's grace, I did my duty that day to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and see the peaceful transfer of power.
But individuals who broke into the Capitol, who assaulted police officers, I said that day, and I believe this moment should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Now, I will say, Kristen, I know there were people that came into the Capitol that day that just walked through an open door, meant no harm, did no harm. Those people, every single one of them, if they were caught up in the legal system, they should have been pardoned. But the people that engage in violence, you know, we're at the end here of Police week in Washington, D.C.
that's where the families of fallen officers come to our nation's capital every year to remember those who died in the line of duty. And the heroes on January 6th were all wearing uniforms. They held the line. They made it possible for us to secure the Capitol, reconvene the Congress, and complete our work under the Constitution the very same day.
And for my part, I will always believe to have pardoned the people that assaulted police officers that day was wrong. Okay. We're talking about the past. Let me ask you about the future.
When I asked President Trump who he sees as his successor, he named two names. Vice President J.D. vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Let me ask you, Mr.
Vice President, who do you see as the next leader of the Republican Party? Well, I think they'll be for the American people to decide. But my profound belief is that it will be a conservative man or woman. Look, I think on the issues that we've talked about, I think President Trump has changed the agenda of the Republican Party with regard to tariffs and some extent with regard to our role as leader of the free world.
But I don't think he's changed the Republican Party. Everywhere I've gone since I left office, including in my presidential campaign, people come up to me one after another and thanked me for our years of service, for the record that we created in the Trump Pence administration, but for my long record in the conservative movement advocating limited government, the right to life, a strong military. And I believe that's what Republicans still believe. And so we have a very deep bench on the Republican side, which is a little bit different than the Democratic Party these days.
We've got a lot of great men and women. And for my part, my goal is to make sure that whoever leads our party in the future, that's someone who embraces that broad mainstream conservative agenda that's always made America strong and prosperous and free. Would you ever consider running for president again? You know, I don't see that in my future.
Our family's been blessed in so many ways. I'm a guy. I grew up in a small town here in Indiana, just dreamed of being the congressman from my hometown, and I got to live that dream. The opportunity to be governor here in Indiana, to go on to be vice president of the United States, was beyond anything I imagined.
And I had a chance to run for president. We did that last time. But I will tell you from my heart, Kristen, what I feel in my calling is exactly what called me to the Republican Party in the days of Ronald Reagan, and that is that I want to be a voice for conservative values. I want to be a voice for the policies and liberties ensuring in the Constitution of the United States.
That's what defines us as Americans. I want to be a champion of the conservative cause, and that's where I'll stay focused and let the future take care of itself. So just be very clear. Do you rule out running for president ever again based on what you're saying?
Yeah, I have no plans. I don't see it. But as I said, we'll keep standing for everything we've always stood for, and we'll let the future take care of itself. Just finally, sir, do you still feel at home in the Republican Party?
I do. Because I will tell you that, well, while many at the heights of our party are articulating a different agenda, everywhere I travel across the country, I mean, everyday Americans who are part of the conservative movement, part of the Republican Party. And in airports and at diners and street corners, people will stop and thank me for our years of service. And it's deeply humbling to me, but I do feel at home in this party.
It's a conservative party. It's the party of Ronald Reagan. It's the party of Barry Goldwater, it's the party of Abraham Lincoln. And however many times I get around the sun on this earth, I'm just going to continue to fight for a Republican Party that articulates and advances the principles that have always made America strong and prosperous and free.
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Mr. Vice President, you say that you don't think President Trump has changed the entire Republican Party. What do you mean by that? Because a lot of people think he has, in fact.
Well, look, there's no question that President Trump has changed the agenda of the Republican Party in some respects in terms of America's role as leader of the free world policies of tariffs and taxes at the border. But I don't think he's changed the Republican Party. I mean, all throughout my Life. I've heard people come up to me and express appreciation for our strong stand on limited government, fiscal responsibility, the right to life, strong military.
And I believe in the White House, none of that's ever changed. Even in my short presidential campaign, people would come up to me more often than not and say, agree with everything he said. And I'd say, can I count on your vote? And they'd say, no, I gotta do with Trump this time.
So I get it. I understand the president's appeal. But I think at the end of the day, this is still a mainstream conservative party and it gives me great confidence about the future. There's also, though, an element of populism to President Trump's governing strategy.
Do you see that? And do you think it is shifting key parts of the party, for example, in terms of how he deals with foreign policy and traditional United States allies? I do believe that the highest levels, what you're seeing in the party today is, is a debate over whether we're going to stay on track for that. That Reagan conservative agenda that really defined the Trump hence here we cut taxes, we rebuild our military, we pointed conservatives to our courts at every level.
We stood with our allies, stood up to our enemies. But today in the Republican Party, that traditional Republican conservative agenda is being challenged by a populism unmoored to conservative principles, a populism that questions whether America needs to continue to meet our obligations around the world, a populism that argues for raising taxes on working families and raising border taxes, and frankly, a populism that wants to marginalize issues like the right to life. No longer talk about them. But, Kristen, I really believe with all my heart that the vast majority of people that ever vote Republican still here to those common sense conservative principles.
And the calling of my life right now is just continue to give voice to that, encourage many women around the country to take those stands. And I really do believe conservatism will carry the day in the Republican Party in the years ahead. You, of course, recently saw President Trump at the funeral for former President Jimmy Carter. Do you ever talk to him?
Does he ever reach out to you for any counsel at this point or. You know, there were difficult days at the end of the administration, but what's not widely known is that the president and I parted very amicably. He thanked me from the tarmac commander's Air Force base and my family by name for the service we rendered to the country and to him. We'd speak several times a month in the days after we left office, the day I went to the inauguration.
The President called me. We talked for an hour about conversations I had with people on the platform. But what saddened me was several months after we left office, he returned to much of the same rhetoric that he had used in the run up to that fateful day of January 6th in talking again about the election being stolen, suggesting that I. I could have had the ability to overturn the election.
And that was where I just came to the conclusion that we best part ways. I did see him at the Carter funeral, and we had a warm exchange. I stood up, I shook his hand, and I said, Congratulations, Mr. President.
And I could tell you he softened and said, thanks, Mike. And I congratulated the first lady as well. It was a good moment. I pray for the President often, and I want him to be successful.
I really do believe in my heart the policies, as well as his great political skills accounted for our success in those first years. And so I think the best way that I can help him help the party and help the country is by being a voice for those policies that made our administration successful. America secure, prosperous, and will again. When I think about your time after you left office, you obviously ran for the presidency.
What did you learn about this country, sir, that you might not have known before you ran for office yourself? I just. I just learned even more that the American people are the most resilient, the most generous, the most faithful, the most patriotic, apparent people the world's ever known. And my hope for the future of this country is based on my belief in God, who I believe has ever had his hand on this great experiment in freedom.
And it's based on my confidence in the American people. So many people from every political background over the last four years have made a point to come up to me and express appreciation for the stand that I took on that fateful day in January of 2021. They often begin by saying, I don't agree with anything else you stand for, but I want you to know, and there's been a graciousness. There's been people who come up to me and said, I totally support President Trump, but I know you did what you had to do, and I'm grateful.
And when I see that character of the American people, it fills me with confidence that the best days for this country yet to come. Vice President Mike Pence, thank you for your time today, sir. I really appreciate it. Good to have you, Nadia.
It's such an honor to be here. Hey, everyone, I'm Dylan Dreyer, co host of the third hour of today and bonded three wild boys. I learned a lot my years as a parent. Mostly that I don't have all figured out yet.
And I'm not the only one. This is my new podcast, the Parent Chat. Each week I sit down with someone new. Ron.
This conversation and real world advice about parenting. I am over here just like winging it. Hey, I'm trying not to screw my own kid. I'm not giving you advice on how to stream yourself.
There's a parent chat on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.