The aspects of ourselves that cause the most drama and most chaos in our life, for the most hated aspects, are actually the parts of us that are working so hard to protect us. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. Today's guest is one of my dear friends, one of my favorites, and someone that is so deeply important to me, and I'll tell you about something special in a second.
Today's guest is the one and only Gabriel Bernstein, number one New York Times best-selling author on multiple occasions, spiritual teacher and speaker known for making personal growth accessible and practical. Gabi has written multiple New York Times best-selling books, including The Universe Has Your Back, her latest book, though, Self Help, brings internal family systems therapy into everyday life. If you have no idea what that is, I promise you it is going to change your life, stick around for this episode, because Gabi is a leading voice on wellness stages around the world, and continues to inspire millions through her talks, courses and online community. Please welcome my dear friend Gabi Bernstein.
Gabi, it's so great to have you back. I love that we were just talking about how the first time we met was literally nine years ago to a couple of weeks from now. And I remember I had just launched this brand new show at HuffPost called Follow the Reader. You were at the top of our booking list.
You said yes, and I must have interviewed you in like my second week at the job. And we became instant friends. You became such a dear mentor, someone that I turned to for advice. And I'm so grateful to you, because from day one, when I literally had nothing to offer you, you were supportive, kind, helpful, you're the real deal.
And I love saying that about people, because it's very rare. So thank you, and thank you for being here. I walked out of that interview, and I looked at my publicist, and I said to her, first, I'm going to be friends with that guy, like that guy's my friend. And second, I'm like, he's a superstar.
I was like, just watch this career blow up. And here we are. So I love you. So grateful.
And I'm so grateful you put this book together, because my wife actually interviewed you on her podcast. And the first thing she said to me, she was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea what internal family systems is. And I have no idea how powerful it was until I spoke to Gabby. She was raving about like, she couldn't.
I was like, yeah, I love Gabby, obviously, but she couldn't. It was something that really impacted her. And I think that's what this book has done. I think that's what you sharing of IFS has done.
Please, for all of us who may not be familiar with it, what is internal family systems therapy? How does it work? And what's the goal? Internal family systems therapy, which is also known as IFS, is the therapy that changed my life.
And it is a practice of befriending the activated parts of ourselves, the aspects of ourselves that often we might like the least. So the parts of ourselves that can be hypervigilant or addicted or extreme in any way, or the belief systems and patterns that hold us back to what we really want. Oftentimes we want to just shut those parts of ourselves down, right? Oh, I hate that part of myself, or I don't want to be there again, or how did I end up in that situation again?
It's about befriending those parts of ourselves and healing and accessing this relationship to these parts, rather than making them bad or wrong, but starting to get into relationship with these aspects of ourselves, because really, Jay, they're just little children inside. You saying that, I mean, hearing that just now is literally giving me goosebumps because it's so profound, because I feel like most of our self-help efforts, or most of our self-work efforts as of now, are all about never feeling that way again. Exactly. So it's like, how do I never, ever feel anxious ever again?
How do I completely block out the inner critic? How do I never experience this ever again in my life? You're nailing it. Pretty much, what happens is, as young children, we have these experiences of trauma with a big T or trauma with a small T.
We all have them. It doesn't matter how big or small we've all had them. Maybe you were bullied on the playground, or maybe you had extreme trauma, like an abuse, or a parent that was alcoholic. No matter what that moment in time was, as a child, or multiple moments in time, those experiences of feeling terror or unlovable or inadequate, not good enough, those were such extreme feelings that we would do whatever it took to protect against them.
Just like you said, I never want to feel that again. So what we did was we started to build up protection mechanisms, and those protection mechanisms could be like controlling, or they could be people-pleasing, or perfectionism, or in my case, control with a big one, or rage, or then addiction. And these protection mechanisms become these aspects of ourselves that really run the show. They're called protector parts.
And so in IFS, the whole intention is to start to get to know these protector parts, soften to them, recognize them, and these protection mechanisms that we've been living with for as long as we can remember to recognize them as young little children inside who need the care of our inner self, of our higher self. And that's what in IFS is called self, which is why the book is called self-help. And I've been going on about the inner workings of self-help, which we'll do today. But really my intention with this book, Jay, was to democratize and demystify and simplify this extraordinary therapy that my friend, Dr.
Richard Schwartz, created. And I got on to be trained in the model, and after doing the therapy for a decade for myself, with my own therapist, and then getting trained in it, it was very clear to me that I was going to do what I do, which is translate and simplify. And that's what this is. It is a self-help practice based on the principles of IFS.
It's so counterintuitive to what I think we've been told for so long. And so it takes a second. It's something at the start of the interview a few moments ago about how it actually changed your life. And what was it that took you and drew you to IFS?
How did that come to be in your life? And where were you at in your life when this became something that was relevant for you? It was a real accident. I didn't know that it was there.
I was with the same therapist for about seven or eight years. And midway through my therapy, I actually remembered in a dream trauma from my childhood. Extreme trauma, big tea trauma. In that journey of undoing that trauma, she began practicing IFS with me.
I didn't know that we were doing it. I just was doing the thing that she wanted me to do. It's actually really hard for me to do at the time because she was wanting me to start to tap into these aspects of myself and start to get to know, get into a relationship with the addict or the anxiety or the extreme patterns of rage or the controller, which were all protection mechanisms that have been blocking me from remembering that trauma. And I remember it was about 2020.
I was at home as we all were. And I'm watching this YouTube video with this man, Dr. Richard Schwartz, I just stumbled upon it. And I'm watching the video and I'm like, this guy's talking about this therapy he created.
And as I'm hearing him talk about it, I'm realizing that's the thing I've been doing for all these years with my therapist. And it was so exciting to me. It was just around the time that I was starting my own podcast. So I reached out to him and he was one of the third people I had on the show because it was just my mission to uncover as much as I could about this therapy that was really healing me.
And then Dick really encouraged me to go on and get the training. And so as one of the last people to do the facilitator training that isn't a therapist, it isn't a licensed therapist. So it was definitely divinely timed. And I think when you get trained in something and you know this, when you do the training and you undergo what it would mean to be a facilitator of that work, it starts to get into your system in a way that it benefits you even more.
I think we borrow the benefits as teachers. We start to experience the work in a different way, it becomes so integrated. And that accelerated my experience of IFS, which then made me realize, you know, I can't just expect that everyone's going to be able to get to this therapy because they won't be able to afford it or there's not enough therapist out there or they won't even know that it's there. So I've got to make it easy and accessible for people to use.
And particularly right now, people need resources and they need tools to access on the fly. And we need an inner sense of safety inside. So what do people start? To start, you have to just first recognize that there are parts of yourself that are activated.
So just, you know, if you've ever said something like, uh, there's a part of me that gets really angry and rageful when my wife does acts or a part of me checks out when I'm around my parents or a part of me is really defensive at work when I'm around authority figures. Those parts of yourself are not who you are. They're parts of who you are and they're protection mechanisms. And so having this experience of being the witness without any judgment of these aspects of yourself that may actually be aspects of yourself that you've really judged and really hated for a long time, but being that non-judgmental witness of these parts of yourself and recognizing how long has that part been around every time you're gonna say as long as I can remember since I was a kid, since I was five and then asking yourself, okay, well, what did that part really trying to do here?
It's trying to protect you. And so that's the first step is to recognize that the aspects of ourselves that cause the most drama and most chaos in our life or the most oftentimes hated aspects are actually the parts of us that are working so hard to protect us. And you know, I've been sober now 20 years, 20 years right now, and I can look back at the cocaine addict part at 25 years old and just look at her with so much love and so much compassion and just say, thank you for working so hard to keep down these impermissible feelings that I was not ready to face. So it starts by spotting a pattern that you see repeated that you don't like about yourself.
A belief, maybe a belief, a pattern, a behavior that you find to be extreme in some way that's causing some issues in your life or oftentimes the parts of ourselves and I'll just give a bunch of examples. So for me, a controller with the anxiety, the addict, there's a part that I named called Knives Out. It was really like, if you mess with me, knives are coming out and she's a really unburdened part. Now that part is doing okay.
But for a long time, it was like, I could be the greatest person. If you mess with me, it was just like this defensiveness was gonna just come out in such an extreme way. And even parts of ourselves that might be praised, for example, for years, I was just sort of a workaholic and people be like, wow, Gabby, you write a book a year and you're doing so much and you'd be praised for these aspects of yourself. But meanwhile, it was destroying me and you've known me through that time.
You've seen me through those sort of destructive eras of my life where I was just pounding and grinding. I was running. I was protecting against deep feelings that I wasn't ready to face. And so these aspects might not necessarily be perceived as bad, but they're causing and creating chaos nonetheless.
And the thing that's really important for me about this work is that it's very spiritual work. And as you know, all my work up to this point has been really grounded in spiritual beliefs and faith and my own faith and my own truth around my spiritual practice. But what's gorgeous about this is it's really marrying therapeutic processes with a spiritual experience. And I can get to that.
That's what self is. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that. I mean, I was going to ask you that you're saying a lot of these protection mechanisms, they ultimately bury the self.
They are blocking us. Right. Yes. Because there's a beautiful quote by IFS practitioner and I'll just, I'll share it.
It's that self is like the sun behind the clouds. And when the clouds dissipate, the sun begins to emerge naturally. So anyone watching has had experience, anyone listening or watching has had experiences of self. Those moments when you're just in complete flow, when you're playing pickleball with Lewis, when you're cooking with Radi, when you're, you're, you're in self right now, you looked me in the eye before this, this show started, you asked me one of the most beautiful questions I almost started crying before we began.
That's your self energy. It's calm. It's courageous. It's curious.
It's connected. It's clear. Creative. I think I said, and confident is the sea quality, compassionate.
It's almost an oftentimes very childlike wonder. It's just, and then the reason actually I think that you're such an excellent interview is because you interview with a lot of self, the curiosity, the connection, clarity, you know, that's also what comes through as what people feel even healed in the presence of self. And so that self energy, all of us have, but we blocked it. We blocked it with all these protectors, but the good news is it never left us.
Yeah. And that's what you're saying. We've all had these glimpses. Yes.
Of our compassionate self, our creative self, our kind self. Yes. And you're so right that all of our triggers block that even I was thinking about this just how trying to think of someone I spoke to the other day who you could tell there was this almost fight inside of them, where their insecurity about something was unlocking their ego when in reality they wanted to follow their higher self and be compassionate. Yeah.
And I think that's what we all go through. Yeah. I think the truth is Gabby that, and we can speak to this, you've done this work for so long now in helping so many millions of people across the world. People are exhausted right now.
And doing this work requires a lot of effort and energy and time and courage. How do people bring themselves to actually do this to unlock their self when it just feels like it's so far blocked and it's so far removed and we feel so far away from feeling that creative, compassionate, powerful self that we all have and that we all are? Well, I think if someone's coming to this with that energy of, I don't have time for this or this is too much or I'd ask that person, well, how is it all working out for you this way? Because we think it's hard.
We think that self-help practices are harder, spiritual practices are hard, but the truth is is that not having that foundation is much more difficult and not having that foundation in this critical time. This is a very critical time. If we don't have a faith of our own understanding or a therapeutic or spiritual or self-help practice of our own understanding or a tool of accessing some kind of interconnection to interwisdom, inspiration, intuition, and inner guidance, if we don't have that right now, we're going to be like a fish out of water, we're going to be flailing around, we're going to feel really unstable, really uncertain, really anxious and really scared. And I think that's most people right now, anyone watching or listening you to this interview is on the track of wanting more.
So they've already begun the first step. They would not be following you if they weren't interested in seeking their ability to self-soothe, to self-correct, to feel a sense of safety inside. So they're already 90% of the way there because they're listening. But the practice that I've created that I've outlined here is taking this big body of work that does oftentimes feel like a lot to go into therapy every single week, to sit down, to open up to some of those deepest, most vulnerable parts of ourselves.
And so this is really a way to scratch the surface and to do it safely because I'm not going to those exiled parts, I'm not going to that little traumatized child, we're going to the day-to-day protection mechanism. Yeah, yeah. And it's a four-step practice. It's a simple four-step practice.
So what do we do once we've identified this pattern, whether it's anxiety, people-pleasing, avoidance, control, what do you then do once you've found this pattern that has been a protector that ultimately is a blocker for himself? Yeah. So these patterns are the way that we check out. And so the practice in the book is called the four-step check-in process and it's checking in with the part.
So if you have enough space between that stimulus and the reaction, so let's say you are at work and your boss triggers you and you're like, I got to get out of this office right now and I got to go into the bathroom and I got to check in with myself because otherwise I'm going to do something I'm going to regret. So you step away or typically stepping away is very valuable. Or maybe the next day you want to check in because it's still lingering. You get out of the instant of the trigger and then you choose to check in instead of check out.
So it's focusing your attention inward as the first step, just looking inside, just even closing your eyes and focusing your attention inside. The second step is curiosity. So that's where you start to just tease it out a little bit and you'll say, okay, where does that part of me live in my body? Do I feel it?
And you'll notice it's in my jaw or it's in my stomach or my chest or my shoulders or wherever it lives. You'll ask a few more questions. Are there any thoughts or feelings or sensations attached with this belief or pattern? And then you'll hear, you know, I'm not good enough or you know, I can, or maybe you'll have an image, you know, I see myself and I'm five years old and the bully on the playground is yelling at me or whatever that story line was.
And or you know, my dad just left or whatever the experience or you'll see the image or you'll hear words. So you just keep teasing it out, just noticing thoughts, feelings, sensations, what's happening inside. And once you have a little bit of connection, remember that self, you're going to connect deeper with compassion, which is the third step, and you're going to ask the part, not yourself, you're asking the part of you, the activated part of you, what do you need? And Jay, you'll be blown away.
The part will say, I need to dance, I need to rest, I need to play because what do these parts need? They need to be kids again. They need to return to that natural role of being innocent or I need, I need love. And then once you have that third step, the fourth step is very easy and it's really checking for self.
So you're going to check in for those equalities. Do I feel calm? Do I feel more compassionate? Do I feel connected?
Do I have some clarity? Do I feel a little courageous? Do I have creative energy buzzing inside of me? Oftentimes you'll very quickly feel calmer, you'll feel some courage and clarity is a big one that comes through quickly too.
And so those four steps, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And I've prescribed this, I've looked at my audience and I've said, okay listen, what about one minute a day four steps is bothering you? Everyone's like, nothing, I can do that. And so that's one minute a day four steps because the thing is once you do this one time, then you can realize, oh wait, I can do this maybe in an hour from now, or I can do it before I'm going to bed when I'm having anxiety, or I can do it after that deep conversation with my partner that really activated me.
I can keep coming back to this really simply without feeling like it's a burden. It can be a little or as much as you want, but I've always taught as a metaphysical teacher that the miracles that we experienced in our life or the experiences when we changed the way we experienced something, not that the things outside of us change, but that are experience of our experience changes. And that's what this will offer. We all want to feel better, to have more energy and more focused throughout the day.
That's why I co-founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenic drink made with powerful ingredients like ashwagandha and lion's mane. It's designed to boost your mood, support your focus and give you natural energy or without the crash. A new classic reimagined. We're so excited to officially launch our new lemonade iced tea flavour.
When we created Juni, my goal was simple, I wanted to make drinks that help you feel balanced and energized without compromise. Our upgraded take on the classic Arnold Palmer is crisp, refreshing and crafted with adaptogens to support energy, focus and mood, all with zero sugar. Be among the first to try it, available exclusively at drinkjuni.com where you can use the code on purpose 20 for 20% off your first order. Cheers to your daily mood boost.
We all want to feel better, to have more energy and more focused throughout the day. That's why I co-founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenic drink made with powerful ingredients like ashwagandha and lion's mane. It's designed to boost your mood, support your focus and give you natural energy or without the crash. Get your daily mood boost with Juni at Whole Foods Market or head to drinkjuni.com to find a store near you.
What I really appreciate about it is that we're going back to being guided from within. Yes. And I feel that somewhere where we've lost in society where it's constantly being what your parents thought, what your friends thought, what your family thinks, now what social media thinks. And we're so overexposed to everyone else's opinion.
And it's so common for us to ask questions about what we should do with our life in the group chat, trying to get someone else's opinion to give us the answer. And I think we've lost the ability to understand that all of the answers are right there within if we were simply to sit with ourselves. Your body will tell you, your heart will tell you, your mind will tell you, and this practice really allows you to do that again. So it's not like here's a fix it all the situation.
It will tell you something different every time. When someone does it for the first time, how can they do it in a way that they have an experience where they get a taste that it's real? Because I think when we hear these things, and do you know what the truth is today, I've been thinking about this a lot, and you're the right person to ask this. Because you've shared so many great pieces of advice over the years.
I feel everyone knows what they have to do, but we don't actually do it properly. And so we never have the qualitative experience that convinces us we should keep doing it. Whereas when you've had that qualitative experience, whether it's an amazing meditation, whether it's the four step practice, once you've had that qualitative experience and you've felt the impact, you'll do it again and again and again. But the first time, how can someone really lock in the first time they do this?
Selfie gets more self. So the first way to step in is to look at your life and ask yourself, is this what I want? Is this it? Those are really magic words.
Is this it? Is this all I've got here? I want more than this. Even just saying, I want to change.
I want more. Everyone listening is in some way, shape, or form, wanting some aspect to change. And that desire is there. And that desire wouldn't be planted in your heart if it wasn't ready to come forth, if it wasn't ready to be birthed.
So I think that that's the responsibility that we have to give ourselves, is to ask ourselves, if this is our beautiful Mary Oliver quote, if this is our one simple life, I'm botching it, but this is one beautiful life that we have. And am I going to take it to the max? Am I going to live to the highest and the best? And that's one question and that's one place to come to this or the other places that there may be people listening that are hitting a massive bottom in their life.
And for those folks, Jay, it's going to be a lot easier to pick up this book and start. A lot easier. Because when we are, there's that beautiful roomy quote, the wound is the place where the light enters you. I love that one.
When you are in that moment of hitting some kind of bottom or you're having that addiction come to an end or you're in the divorce or you're having a crisis at work or you've lost the job or you've gotten the diagnosis, those are the moments. It's when the light enters you. So the question you want to ask yourself is, am I willing to do whatever it takes to get to great? Am I willing to do whatever it takes to feel great?
And that's the path I've been on. I've been on I want to I want to get to great. I've lived through a lot of a lot of different difficult experiences as all of us have. And I've just been on a pursuit of feeling great.
This is an interesting thing that I heard in a 12 set meeting early in my recovery was if they want what you if you want what they have, do what they do. So sometimes that's just enough to be listening and be like, well, Jay and Radi, you know, or if you want what they have, do what they do, there's a reason that somebody is in and when I say what they have, I don't mean the external things. I mean, the inner piece. If you want what they have, do what they do.
And the thing that happens that you said that was also quite interesting is that why this is a spiritual practice is because when you start to reflect inside and start to tend to these protection mechanisms, these burden parts, they start to feel seen what a child what a child needs to be seen, soothed, loved, cared, calm, common, compassionate energy. So it starts to feel like you have this internal parent inside and you realize, as Dick Short says, that you are the one you've been waiting for, that all of the external validation or love or connection or support, all that outside stuff that you've been seeking to find completion and safety is actually inside of you. And I know that's something that people always say in spiritual, you'll really experience that with this. What's the balance, do you think, Gabby, of how much external validation and how much self-validation we need?
Like does external validation play any part in our ability to self-validate? Or do you believe it's a full self-validation process and external validation is should be irrelevant at some point? I can really speak from my own experience, the more self I've accessed inside, the more self-connection I have to that inner parent, that inner wisdom, the less external validation I need. I don't need it.
And I'm a human. So it's not like, honestly Jay, I don't really think I need it. I don't feel like I'm grasping or looking or needing, and I think the other irony is that the more self that you have access to, the more self you attract. So the more calm, connected, compassionate energy you bring into your life, so you do get that love and that connection because you are always receiving back what you are vibrating out.
So the more you access self, the more you become that point of attraction for more self in your life. Yeah. No, I love that answer because I've been talking to a lot of friends about that recently, about this idea of if you have the power to self-validate and self-to-soothe and self-regulate and honor your hard work and intensity, then you won't crave it from others. And what I was explaining to someone was that anytime I've wanted someone to validate me externally, they can never fully satisfy my need for it because they haven't lived in my life.
And in the same way, I haven't lived theirs. So I can't validate them effectively either because I haven't been up with them on those sleepless nights. I haven't gone through the trauma that they've gone through. And so even if I'm just saying, well done, you did great, that's amazing.
It will still never fully satiate their desire for validation because as you just quoted Dick Schwartz that you're the one you've been waiting for, it's only when I sit with myself and I cry at the thought of everything I've been through and honor myself for every way I've showed up for myself, whether it's my body, my mind, my heart, my soul, that's the only time when I'll actually be satisfied. And I've noticed that again and again. So I completely agree with you. The point isn't that I don't appreciate external validation.
I do. The point isn't that I'm not inspired when I'm validated externally. I am. But the only type of validation that really, really affects me deep in my heart and my gut is when it's coming from me.
That's right. Because I have all the details. I have the record books, I have the files and the notes on every difficult moment I've been through just as you do for yourself. We are the ones we've been waiting for.
I had the experience just yesterday, a really epic experience where I was, my son is a six and a half years old now. But we belong to this really sweet lake club in our community and the countryside. And it's like 1950s and there's these docks and grills and it's kind of like the dirtier your sweatpants are, the better the cooler you are there and clay tennis courts and it's just really idyllic. And my kids at the age now where he can just like run around and do his thing and I'm not going to do a great swimmer.
I'm not stressed out about what's going on. So I'm like, go do you man. And I'm sitting on the dock by myself. My husband was out for a drive.
I'm sitting. I just played some tennis. I'm sitting on the dock. I've got this new book in my hand.
I'm in my, you know, my red bathing suit. I've got my ice coffee next to me. It's dirty all over the dock. I didn't care.
And I was just sitting there on this cozy chair and I'm looking out of the water and I had this incredible energy just pour through me, this energy was just like spirit, it was spirit coming through. I mean, that's the way I would just define this and it's just self energy, just so connected, so in the moment, so present, there wasn't anything else that I was thinking about trying to get to trying to do. And it was just this moment of whoa, this is what we've been training for. It just flood in and that isn't a fleeting moment.
That's how we can live our lives. We can live not all day, every day we're going to be in self. We're going to get activated. We're going to get triggered.
The best of us are going to get triggered. But it's the triggers become less, less, what went with years would be days or minutes or five seconds. And we start to access more of that presence and that taste of that, that energy, that self energy, you want more of it. And also, I think that there's this thing I always call spiritual proof.
When you have an experience of something where you say, oh my God, I just did that four step thing and actually feel a little bit calmer. And Gabby said, all I need is to be a little bit calmer and then I've done the job of done this. If I even feel the slightest molecule of self, I've done the work. That experience of that molecule of self is something you crave.
You want more of it. It's like going to the gym. You want more of it. You have to keep practicing it.
Yeah. What's one of the ways people experience a protector or a trigger is self judgment and self criticism. They're in a critic. How do you even reconcile the fact that self judgment is a protector in some way?
Self judgment is a huge protector. I actually wrote a book called Judgment Detoxed. It was a little bit ahead of myself there because it's very much what this work is about. It's judgment is a way of judging ourselves is definitely a protector.
Because if there is something big too uncomfortable to access that's being activated, feelings of being inadequate, unlovable, we are going to do anything we can to numb that pain. So one, we're going to judge others so we don't have to feel the pain inside or two will judge ourselves, start nitpicking and judging ourselves because it's easier to judge and attack ourselves than it is to feel the pain. And what happens with this beautiful practice is that as you start to tend inward, you recognize that you don't have to re-experience the pain. You can just be present with what the protector needs in that moment and that moment it can just soften and it's these moment by moment unburdening of the pain of that you've held on to you for so long.
So what do we do with the self-critic through this force of practice? Great question. So you'd notice yourself in that self-critic or that attack or judgment and you would have, again, you have enough space between the attack and the response to it. And sometimes it might not happen until the next day when you have a little bit of a judgment hangover or whatever it is, but you notice it.
You say, OK, I'm going to check in. And so you'd check in with the judgment and you'd focus your attention towards that judgment inside. So instead of being in your head, you'd get into your internally and I like to close my eyes with this. I can also suggest that people do this with journaling.
So at the top of the page, you could say, I choose to check in with my judgment. And then the compassionate, the curious connection, that curiosity coming inside, you'd ask the judgment, you know, what are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to reveal? Because the judgment will then speak.
And this is really helpful. You asked earlier, what's a great way to start journaling is a great way to do this because if you're just journaling with it, you'll let your pen flow and that stream of consciousness will start to come forward onto the page. And you'll be blown away with the part we'll start to say, just journal with the part. So you ask it, what do you need?
And then you'll just journal journal journal and then it's going to carry on with the four questions. So check in, curiosity, compassion and what do you need and then start to journal more. How do I feel now? Yeah.
It's almost starting to treat ourselves. It's earlier, and it's resonating more as you explain the practice. This idea of treating those parts of yourself as small children. Yes.
And it's like if a child is crying, the first thing you say is, Hey, what's up? Like, what's going on? Like, how are you feeling? Like what happened?
Are you okay? Whereas when we see the parts of ourselves crying inside or kicking up a fuss, we're just like, go away. Go away. Go away.
I don't want to talk to you. This is an actual question I asked my audience is, you know, if your little child in your life was having a hard moment or saying, I'm really scared or I'm really activated. The first thing you would do is calm connection, your self energy would rise to the occasion, calm connected, curious. What do you need?
But the way that we speak to ourselves is insane. It's horrible. We just are so mean to ourselves and so aggressive with ourselves and wanting to shut it down. That's exactly right.
Why do we find it easier to suit others and not suit ourselves? Well, because we need, we believe or unconsciously, I don't think we know this, but we unconsciously believe that we need these protectors to stay alive. So I'll give an example. I had very severe codependent addiction before I was a drug addict.
And in that codependent addiction, I literally had a belief that if I'm not in a relationship, I will die. It wasn't right. Could I say that? But it felt like that.
It felt like that. You behaved like that. You're actually like, oh, my God, if I'm clinging and fawning and if that does relationships work, I'm going to find another one. And I was actually talking with a woman yesterday who identifies as a codependent and has a very serious addiction to this one partner that she's been trying to release and she keeps going back and she keeps going back and she's like, it's just such a drug.
And I said, what does it feel like if you were to end it, she's like, I literally feel like I would die. And that's the thing with these protectors is that we don't realize it, but they actually are protecting us from feelings that we think and believe inside unprocessed trauma feelings that we believe will take us down. We believe they will take us down. And it's only when we start to self-soothe and access a little bit of that self inside that we can start to realize, no, no, no, no, actually there's some safety here.
I feel like I can actually be a little bit more resilient than I thought or it's not that terrifying to go there. I can go there and I can be okay on the other side. But we have to have that spiritual proof in order to actually have even any desire to keep going. So that's that part where I'm like, the first time you do this for anyone who's listening and watching, really give it your all because you can experience spiritual proof early.
And as soon as you have that, you just set because you now know what you're working towards, not that you want the same feeling or the same emotion will be different, but you know the process works. And I think sometimes it's almost like everyone knows they need to work out and everyone knows they need to take supplements and vitamins. But when you don't do that properly and you don't do it consistently, you don't have the proof that it works. Let's give them the proof right now.
Let's give them experience right now. Because one of the things I don't love about this sort of therapeutic book is that talking about it. Like people are like, you know, and also protectors get up, like other protectors like literally like, you're gonna have to believe me, but they're like, this, I don't want to go there. And so that's why it took me years in therapy.
And I wish I'd had this book because I think it would have been a more gentle access to it. So let's not talking about it. I'll give it to them. Okay.
And you can do it for yourself. I think everyone listening, maybe you close your eyes while we do this if you want to. And for your own sake, just think of a protector that you might be aware of. And you don't have to say out loud what you're working with unless you want to later, okay?
And everybody listening, check in right now with, at this point, maybe you're aware of a part of yourself that is a little activated at times, or maybe very activated at times, the parts that are controlling or addicted, or maybe the part that runs through a refrigerator or checks out with YouTube or the aspects of yourself that you want to check in with and choose one right now. And once you're aware of that part, if you're not driving, you can gently close your eyes and focus your attention inward and choose to check in with the part. And now noticing inside the little curiosity, where does that part of you live in your body? Where do you feel it inside?
And does it have a shape or a color, or is there any words or thoughts or memories attached to it? And give it a breath. Take a deep breath in like Jay just did, breathe in with it and just be present with it and let it know that it's safe to let you know more to any memories or feelings or sensations. And don't judge anything that comes forward, just let it come through.
And now they have a little bit of access and connection to this part. You can ask it one last time, is there anything else that you want me to know? And now, with that access to the part, I want you to check in a little bit more closely and offer it a little bit of compassionate connection, asking the part, what do you need? Just listen, don't overthink it, don't judge it, just listen.
And now take a deep breath in and maybe place your hand on your heart and your other hand on your belly and just breathing in and just let that part know that you've listened, that you're here and take another deep breath in. And now just check in and notice how you feel. Do you feel even the slightest bit more calm? Do you feel a little bit of compassion towards that part?
Are you curious? Would you like to know a little bit more at some point? Are you willing to get to know more? Do you feel connected?
Do you have more clarity about it? Can you create energy buzzing through? You feel a little buzziness? Just notice those sea qualities, courage, be confidence.
And just take one last deep breath in and just let it go. And then whenever you're ready, you can open your eyes. See how you feel? I watched you go there, it was beautiful.
It was great, it was what I really liked about it, the part that really helped me was being able to approach something head-on, which we don't do. And then to actually sit with it with compassion in a good way. So my normal reaction to it would be, God, why do I do this? Why am I doing that?
God, it's so annoying. Oh, I know this came from something in my past. That's the kind of energy that it often has. And to not have that energy for that protector was new, because the energy that I have for the protector is most likely negative or condescending or some sort of derogatory feeling.
It was really pleasant to see in, oh, you're not all that bad. You've been needed, you've performed a purpose, you've been useful, and it's not perfect, but I'm grateful. And that was quite new. I'd never done that before.
There's a lot of clarity there. See, that's a lot of self-jig. That clarity. So if you're walking for the listener who's walking out of this or experiencing this just for the first time, and they're like, oh, I learned something new, that's that self.
Did you feel a bit more calm? Yeah, self. You felt some compassion towards himself. So anyone that's listening, even the slightest, like I said, the molecule of calmness or compassion or connection, you've done it perfectly.
Because this is perfect. And if you're like, actually feel worse, that's fine too, because you tried, right? You did that. You went through the journey.
This is just the first baby step in. The experience, like I shared earlier, is about getting into relationship with the part, not pushing it away, shutting it down, blaming and shaming, it's getting into relationship with. And here's the cool part. The more you do this, the more you can actually speak for your parts rather than as your parts.
Yes. Wow. That's really powerful. So that again, because that's really good.
The easier it is for you to speak for your parts rather than as your parts. I mean, that's it, right? I'll give you an example. Yesterday, you know, I have a part that's, that's, she's doing okay, she's called knives out.
She's been really at bay and the person that she likes to bring the knives out to is my husband and foreseck. So she loves to bring those knives out. And, but we've been so good, you know, like my husband and I do IFS therapy for public therapy. So like we are, we're in a great, we're a rocket.
I mean, it's amazing that marriage is going to get that much better over time. The, and we have a language around it. And I said to him, it suddenly happened where he said something that was really triggering to me. Or like, I did something with my kid that he didn't like and he was kind of shaming me, but not on purpose.
But I felt shamed. Because when does knives out come out, Jay? When I feel shame. Right?
Like, I don't want to feel that shame. So instead of feeling that shame, I'm going to literally bring the knives out, go and become completely overtaken. You'll come, if anyone that read my books on me, they'd be like terrified and cry and run in the corner. And knives out comes out.
And she's like cursing. And she's like, go after yourself. But you know, and like outrage and later that night Zach was just like, I don't know what to do with that part. Like, like what the hell was that?
Why did you? We've been so good. I said, I was triggered in the moment and I was taken over by the part and I want to speak for the part. There's that part again that when she feels shame, she goes into a nut.
She checks out become blended with the part. You literally could take on like a different physical form. Your face can change. Your voice can change.
And I just said, I'm really sorry for how I acted and I want to take ownership that that part gets really, I don't know, saying, Oh, it's just a part to get over it. I'm saying, that's that part that I'm still working with. I'm going to speak for the part. The part got really activated.
She felt shame. When she feels shame, she goes crazy. And so I'm going to keep working with her and I'm sorry that she acted out. But I'm speaking for her that rather than as her as her, we've been like still in that rage.
I'm protecting no matter what, yeah, fighting for the part and this is really cool and work environments. So if you've got coworkers that you work with or boss that pisses you off, you can start speaking for the part. You can go to the boss and just say, Hey, listen, depending on the environment, but you could in your own way say, Hey, listen, I just want to let you know that when I get really flustered when I don't know the answer, I just want to let you know that the part of me gets really activated when I don't know all the answers. So if you see me acting weird, I just want to let you know because I'm not trying to bullshit you, but I actually just get really flustered.
Yeah. We're starting a relationship with somebody and you have this language and you're like, listen, a part of me is like a very anxious fashion style. And I just want you to know that like I might act a little nuts at times because this is part of me that gets activated. If I was dating a guy in early in a relationship and he said that's me, I'd be like, bro, let's do this further.
Yeah. And if they can't, then that's not your partner, right? Yeah. But speaking for these parts just makes you so much cooler.
Yeah. It's like the animation inside out. Well, inside out is based on IFS. Yeah, right, right.
That makes sense. That makes sense. That's right. That's right.
That's why I love it for kids. Yeah. Yeah. They can speak for these parts of yourself.
Talk to me about how you've been using IFS in those two ways. So you talked about with your husband's act and with your son. Let's talk about IFS in that context of being in a relationship and a romantic relationship and then having a relationship with a child. Let's start with a romantic relationship.
If someone's starting to do this work and they want to encourage their partner to be included in it, how do you do that? How do you go about that conversation in a way? I feel like so many people today are like, I don't want to date someone who hasn't done therapy. I don't want to date someone who hasn't healed.
How do you actually have that conversation in a healthy way? I'm going to answer that with a story. Okay? Because I get this question all the time.
When I first started this yoga practice almost a decade ago, and I was so deeply into it and I was like doing the sad night. I was wearing the turban. You remember? I was like in the whites and I was like, every day all day going to the teacher training and I'd come home and I'd be like, Zach, you have to do this like five hour breathwork practice with your hands in the air with me.
And he was just like, go after yourself. Like, no, I'm not doing that. And I kept being like, well, why isn't he doing it? And I went to my teacher and I said, listen, my husband isn't doing the practice with me.
He doesn't want to do it. What do you mean? She said, the second that you walk in the door, when you get home, she said, take off the turban and shut up. And that was it.
That's my answer for everybody. Take off your metaphorical turban and shut up because if your partner is not ready for it, they're not ready for it. You do the work. You are the one you've been waiting for.
You get to work. You start tending to the parts of yourself inside. And when you change, everybody else around you has the opportunity to rise up with you. And that's in relationships.
If you start to rise and they don't rise with you, then that's your side. Okay. It's time to move on. But when you rise, you give somebody the opportunity to elevate with you alongside you.
You got to do the work. Yeah. You can say I'm, you know, tracking a partner that wants to do the work, but their work might be different than your work. And so I've been on my own path.
Zach's been on his own path. We find intersection. But he's not sitting and going to Ashram or he's not going to go and do a two-hour meditation, but he will do self-help with me. He'll check in with me.
But this is a journey. You got to do the work for yourself. Yeah. What about when your parts, even when you learn to speak for your parts and not as your parts, what happens when your parts have pushed people too far away?
Yeah. So for example, with your knives out, Zach is an understanding person who's doing the work with you. Oh, I'm sure he has his version of whatever it is. What do you do when your parts have acted out and you've realized too late that they've actually pushed people quite far away?
Is that repairable? The word is repair. I think that that depends on the relationship. We as an addict, I know very well what it means to make an immense a lot of times we as addicts can have those are addicts are very extreme parts.
They're called firefighter parts that are literally at wit's end. I have to do whatever it takes to put out the fire and the flames of this impermissible feeling. And so that's why addicts deserve a tremendous amount of compassion because oftentimes we're traumatized people who do not have the resources in that moment to actually heal and help ourselves. So in the scenario of an addict, let's just say they may have pushed a lot of people away.
They might have created a lot of wreckage. And so it's first in the inner work of self forgiveness. There's a chapter in the book called Self-Forgiveness in the inner work of getting in a relationship with those parts and recognizing that that was a part that was working really hard and forgiving yourself first because you won't really be able to even be in an energy that could be resonant with someone to receive their forgiveness if you don't forgive yourself first because then you're needing them to make it right for you. You have to make it right for you.
And when you do that, that's when your amends will really land. So I can look at Zack now and say, I know that this part needs me and I'm working really hard with her. And so I'm going to forgive her and I'm going to ask for your forgiveness as well. And so I think that's the answer, Jay, is that if you've pushed, if your parts have created a lot of wreckage in your life, then you have to really, no one has to, my suggestion is to go deep into your own inner healing and forgiveness of yourself and forgiveness of the parts and acceptance of the parts.
And then you'll be shown, self will guide you, you'll be self led, self is spirit. The self is God, self is the energy of love inside of you will show you, okay, when you feel you have access to that self forgiveness inside, you're going to know that it's time to go and make amends and maybe get the forgiveness or maybe you don't, but you don't need it, but you're there to ask to really to make amends. I think that all relationships, if there are two parties that are interested in this, this is an extraordinary practice for a couple, extraordinary, extraordinary practice for a parent. Dr.
Becky Kennedy is a good friend and she's also very good friends with Dick Schwartz and she practices a lot of IFS in the work as well. And it comes through in her work a lot because in curiosity, you have a DFK, deeply feeling like I do and they, the child needs your self energy. And the case of my child, so to answer the second question, how do we do this for kids? Some kids might like the four steps, some kids might like, you know, they're really activated and you're like, okay, let's check in, you know, let me check in and you actually could go through the steps with them.
Let's check in with that part out. Where do you feel at in your body, baby? And just checking in. Okay.
Oh, and then what do you need? And how do you feel now that mommy is giving you a little bit of breath? And remembering that our children are always co-regulating with their, they're regulating with our energy. So we're not co-regulating.
They're regulating with us. And our self energy, the more we do this, the better a parent we will be because what does a child need? A self-led leader in the home. The child doesn't need a lot of child parts parenting them.
They need the adult resource undamaged self as often as possible as the parent because that's what's safe. And so that self gets more self in the case of my child. If I start trying to go through the four steps with him, he's like, are you kidding me? He is so allergic to, you know, these kind of conversation.
You're like, how are you feeling? He's like, yeah, I mean, I have to do it all backwards ways, you know, I'll just be very casual big. You know, bro, how are you feeling? Like what's going on?
Like what happened today? I'm really cash. I know you're kid. Yeah.
Don't try that on me. Yeah. And that's the beauty of it though, is that it gives you a language to speak to the other people in your life as well. Yes.
So if you have friends or other parties involved, it gives you a collective language. So it's really funny whenever I'm around my friends in the IFS community, I did a call yesterday with Dick Schwartz and his wife and we were talking about AI stuff and I was giving them some guidance and they were getting activated by it because it's new and it's like, what do you mean? Are you like a clone? Like, what are you talking about?
And I looked at it and I was like, so guys, you know, I know I have a really aggressive part that likes to get really excited about things, so just warning you as we enter this, as we all speak for our parts of these relationships. And it really is quite funny when you're around as IFS people, because we're all just like, my part feels this. But it's beautiful. Imagine the whole world is walking around being like, hey, I'm just going to speak for a part of myself before I act like an asshole.
Yeah. It's incredible. It's a totally different way to live. It's- The people use it as an excuse though?
Definitely. Definitely. You don't want to start being like in that sort of wounded place. It's kind of like an offence.
And that happens in all practices, right? Of course. You're going to be like, well, I just needed my four hour meditation or I didn't do enough mantras this morning or whatever. But in this instance, I think that we- this is about taking ownership of our parts, but not in a way where we're judging them, but where we're befriending them and speaking for them and taking care of them.
Is there ever a time we've talked about self-soothing, self-regulating, self-help overall? Is there ever a time where being hard on yourself is actually useful and effective? You asked the best questions. They're so good at this.
You know, I think that there's- so this is actually a beautiful question. There are protectors that also have really valuable- they all have valuable roles, right? I think from the standpoint of my workaholic really created a lot of drama and chaos in my life and gastro issues and just constant paper vigilance, but she also wrote 10 books in 14 years, right? And she's helped- served a lot of souls.
So we didn't want to shut her down or blame her or shame her. She was doing the best she could. And she also did a lot of good along the way. And we can be in difficult times and still be doing great things in the world.
So I think that the part that is sort of beating us up or not even beating us up, maybe like an encouraging part that's like, you know, push harder, go more- it's a self-like part. It's not self. It has more self-aspects than protector aspects. And the real question isn't, is that bad or good?
It's really is- is it extreme? Because if it's extreme, that's when you really need to start to tend to it. Because remember, we could be very praised for our perfectionism or very praised for our work ethic or very praised for how hard we hit the gym or how much we practice that tennis and we could be really praised for that. And it looks like a great quality.
In many ways it is. But when it's extreme, it's oftentimes a very extreme protector. Yeah, and that's the- that's- and that's why you've got to approach it in the same way. You can't judge that part of you.
That is hard on you. Yeah. And the thing that's happened, and here's the miracle. When you start to check in with these parts and you start to befriend them and you start to self-soothe and you start to create this relationship inside, it's not that the parts have to go away, Jay, it's that the parts now become the best versions of themselves.
They gum- they've returned to their natural roles. So my workaholic part, look, I've got you today and then I'm going off to the next thing about three more podcasts tomorrow. I'm still showing up, but I'm doing it in a less extreme way. You know this.
You've known me for almost a decade. My energy's different. I'm not doing- I'm not doing less. I'm just more intentional.
And I'm more aligned and I'm more resource and I'm having more fun and I'm more child-like. Can't tell you how many friends like you and Lewis and brothers of mine have been like, Gabby, you're like so youthful and child-like, you guys said that to me when we had dinner. And that's just unburdening because it's going to make me cry. It's like you returned to this child like presence inside that was always there.
It just got taken from you. Yeah. I mean, when we were at Lewis's bed, I didn't actually tell you this. I told you at dinner, which I think we had like a year ago, but when we were at Lewis's wedding earlier this year, I was just thinking about it a lot and I was like, wow, Gabby's just so at peace.
I just had this ease about you these days that not that you went and you were like, when I first met you, you were like, you were buzzy and you were like, you know, you had all these good energy. You always have. I've never felt anything different, but I could feel that like ease and grace and peace from you. Yeah.
And that's a really beautiful thing when you experience it in someone because I think we're used to being around high-performing people who have big goals and targets and things like that. And that's not a fun energy to be around. It's kind of, it's not like, it's not attractive that it's, and we're all ambitious and stuff. So there's nothing wrong with that.
But if that's someone's overarching energy, it's not the same as when you're around someone who's kind of just at ease and peace, even though they are driven and ambitious. Talk to me about that kind of paradox, because I think we think that if someone's at peace, they're slow. Yeah. And if someone's ambitious, they're fast.
Talk to me about slow, fast, peaceful, ambitious one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, oftentimes high-performing entrepreneurs do have a lot of shadow parts, but oftentimes that is the reason for so much of their successes.
Yeah. And it's when those folks begin to alchemize and start to recognize and do the work however that work shows up in their life that they're real successes, not external, but that they're actually able to achieve what they're truly capable of. And so achievement is not a sign of self-energy at all. Achievement is oftentimes a sign of a lot of protectors working their ass off to get something going, to protect you.
What happens when we are in that self-energy, when we're in self, is that it's not that we, if we are a high performer, just by nature, certain people just have different energies, that we're born with different frequencies, if that's in your nature and that's a part of you, it's not that that goes away. It's just that you can do it in a more sustainable way. You have more boundaries. You have more ability to say, yes, say no, you are clearer, so you're making better decisions.
You're clearer, so you're not surrounding yourself with the wrong folks. You can actually move even faster and create even more, because you're not burdened. So it's not fast or slow. It's what is the energy that's moving through you.
When you have self-energy, you can move for real fast, but it's so intentional that it has so much more power. And you actually can do a lot less and attract a lot more. Let's talk about boundaries. Yeah.
Because I mean, I feel like boundaries is at the heart of every human issue today, in the sense of when we think about interpersonal dynamics, whether people having issues with their friends, their family members, it's all boundaries based. Many of us are willing to break our boundaries because we care more about people pleasing. We care more about living up to everyone's expectations. We care more about everything else.
And we think we have a boundary. We say we have a boundary, but we don't really keep up to it. So I'll give an example. I was talking to a friend the other day, and she said she only wanted to hang out if all of the friends were invited.
And another one of her friends said, no, I only want to hang out with you. And she was like, well, if we hang out, then everyone's going to find out, we hang out, and then they're going to be upset that we hang out. So I think we should invite everyone. And the other friend said, no, I just want to hang out with you and a couple of other friends.
But I don't want to invite everyone. So you had these two boundaries that were almost at odds with each other. One boundary was we should always invite everyone because it makes everyone feel included, which almost was people pleasing not even a boundary. And the other boundary was, no, I think it should just be a small group of us.
And the person who wanted to invite everyone ultimately gave in and said, no, okay, fine. We'll just have a small group of us. Yeah. Now, this is a very small example.
But to me, it's that dark heart of all the problems that we have. It's like people being upset that people didn't invite them to their wedding. People being upset that they invited them, but didn't give them an important role. People being upset that their family didn't prioritize their birthday.
People being upset that they're always the ones organizing vacations. And no one else does. Like these are the real challenges in life that we're all going through every day. What do we do?
How do we set boundaries that we actually stick to and that we're okay with letting people down, it seems. The sounds like in the case of your friends, the one that was wanting to invite everybody to be people, please, or part. And it might sound like the other one probably had a pretty clear boundary. I'm clear about it.
I mean, listen, boundaries are only good if they're led by self because you could also be really like, I've got all these boundaries. That's a protector too, right? So whether it's boundaries, whether it's, it's control, whether it's anxiety, whatever the protector is, if those parts of you are happening in extreme ways that are misaligned with that calm, clear, curious, compassionate, confident, courageous energy, then it's a protector. Then it's a protector.
It's across the board. When it comes to boundaries, I find that the more we do whatever type of personal development or spiritual practice that we have, and the more we start to access self inside, the more precious we realize our energy is, the more connected we feel inside. So we begin to know, I can't do that anymore. The more access to self that I have acquired, the easier it has been for me to be very boundary with the people who work for me and literally speak thing that in the wrong tone could be very upsetting, but with the self energy or fine.
So saying, Nope, I won't do that anymore. That's not my thing. Or look at somebody in the eye and say, actually, that's your job. I want you to do that.