Giving Risk Professionals Agency with Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall about working with Spencer Educational Foundation. They discuss experiences outside the classroom, including mentoring, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals. They discuss the importance of participating actively in conferences, not just sitting there. Lawanda shares some of the gaps she sees between students' preparation and the readiness employers will expect from them. She explains how coaching can prepare them for entering the risk management workplace. Lawanda encourages RIMS chapters to give the mic to students so they can understand the importance of their voice. Listen for wisdom on listening without judgment and communicating responsibly.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is a risk management student mentor. She is going to talk about how she is helping to guide the next generation of risk management professionals. But first… [:45] RIMS-CRMP! RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. A link to the week's events is on this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification. [1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is helping shape the future of risk management. A link to Certification Week is in the show notes, or find it at RIMS.org/Webinars. [1:20] On September 9th, the Classroom to Career series concludes. Join experienced risk professionals for an engaging discussion about what it's like to build a career in the field of risk management. This session is complimentary for members and nonmembers. [1:38] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience." [1:49] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." [2:00] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th. Their topic will be announced soon. [2:06] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight." [2:15] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon. [2:20] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register. [2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:48] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala will be held on September 17th at the newly renovated Waldorf Astoria in New York City. Visit SpencerEd.org and the link in this episode's show notes.  [3:05] On with the Show! I mentioned Spencer just now because one of our favorite Risk Managers on Campus is rejoining us here on RIMScast. I'm talking about Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is the CEO of Intelligent Intentions. [3:21] We will talk about the habits, mindsets, and professional skills that are consistently distinguishing students who are making lasting impressions on recruiters and hiring managers, from those who need to sharpen their skills. [3:34] Also, some of the trends she is seeing among risk students, habits that they need to develop, and some that they need to break. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get to it! [3:44] Interview! Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, welcome back to RIMScast! [4:09] Lawanda says students preparing for a risk career need a menu of options. The next step would be aligning their appetite to the options, having the courage to create something that may not be on the menu, and having the courage to ask for off-menu options. [4:31] Lawanda says, as we navigate this industry, emerging technologies, and emerging risks, wrapping our minds around companies that don't exist yet and may come to exist, students look to the future, understanding that sometimes the options are not yet on the menu. [4:57] Lawanda encourages them to keep an open mind, keep a creative posture, and have the courage to ask, what are they not seeing on the menu that could also be an option, or how they can co-create an option aligned with their interests but also what the industry needs from them. [5:45] Lawanda and Justin agree that it is a heavy lift for students. Lawanda says students nowadays have such a broad reference that we didn't have, and that puts them in the position to be more creative and thoughtful about the future. [5:57] Lawanda says, tech change is happening much more rapidly for students than it did for us. That gives them a different posture for looking into the future. There's new technology every year. Lawanda says, we didn't replace our cell phones every year. We didn't have cell phones. [6:21] When we got cell phones, we weren't replacing them every year. Now, students are almost expected to update their technology annually. That's indicative of how they feel about the future, changes, and evolution. They have an accelerated understanding of the possibility of change.  [6:40] Lawanda says social media plays into it, where everybody has the latest and the greatest, and they think that they need to have the most updated thing. Lawanda says she gets anxious every time there's an update. Will she have to figure it out all over again? Chances are, yes. [7:43] Lawanda says students embrace that change. They look forward to it, and they expect it. That gives them a different mindset around forward thinking. [8:05] For experiential learning, Lawanda recommends coaching, attending conferences, and making sure students understand responsible communication with industry professionals. If you're not responsible and thoughtful about how you communicate, it can backfire. [8:24] Lawanda says she coaches students before conferences. She helps them understand how to maximize that moment, and not just be sitting there or standing there like a wallflower. She wants them to maximize the moment in whatever way they can. [8:43] Lawanda does coaching. She makes sure they attend conferences, not just the big ones, but also local events that are hosted by professional organizations, including RIMS. Students need coaching, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals. [9:18] Justin comments that attending a large conference and speaking to people takes a certain degree of confidence. Justin asks if being in school during COVID prevented young people from picking up social cues and networking cues. [10:00] Lawanda thinks that young people's social connections were declining before COVID due to social media. Students aren't communicating with each other. They text or use social media as armor to make them feel more comfortable and confident in their communication.  [10:22] Face-to-face interaction is awkward because they don't practice it amongst themselves or amongst the community. Lawanda says COVID amplified it, but it wasn't the beginning or the cause of it. [10:38] Social media continues to create that challenge because students are comfortable on their phones and engaging in that space. When students show up, the confidence and courage don't translate from social media to the real world. [11:01] Lawanda says students need to understand social etiquette and multi-generational communication and connection, the things we were taught because we didn't have a phone: you have to make eye contact, speak up so people can hear you; things we take for granted. [12:11] Lawanda says she's very curious. She is intrigued by students, and she listens to them. She wants to hear what they have to say. She doesn't have to agree. She doesn't sit in a place of judgment or offense. If you don't listen to them, they are not willing to listen to you. [12:46] From listening to students, Lawanda gains an understanding of their language so she can use their language to talk to them. It also shows her where their deficiencies are, so she can fill those gaps and help them understand how to take the next step toward their objectives. [13:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information. [13:34] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [13:51] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [14:08] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni. [14:19] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [14:32] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! [14:42] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [15:02] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lawanda Hall! [15:19] When Lawanda works with students, she starts with the end in mind. What are their objectives? What are they trying to accomplish? This generation is very focused on getting things done. They're go-getters. Impact and results are what propel them. [15:37] They may be stopped, like any human being, by not having the confidence or by fear of what people will think. Lawanda starts with the end in mind by focusing on getting it done. She coaches them through the process and gives them the benefit of her perspective. [15:53] Lawanda reminds them that everybody they talk to are human beings, too. They're imperfect human beings. She tells them, they're here to listen to you because you have a perspective they're interested in. It's going to work out. It's a conversation. You're not on trial. [16:14] Just think about the objective and keep it in mind to push through. [16:49] Lawanda says students want immediate impact, as far as the next step or thing, and instant feedback, but not necessarily instant completion. If they have a big goal, or big things to accomplish, it's not going to happen in a moment. [17:09] They want instant feedback. They don't want to be told they will figure it out later. Do they follow up? They want to know that this step is complete to get ready to go to the next step. Lawanda says that is realistic, and it accelerates what they're trying to accomplish.  [17:36] Justin says that his daughter zones out over context when she asks for help with her homework. She just wants the instant answer. That's the future workforce of the industry. [18:23] Lawanda says the students don't value context as much as earlier generations. Our responsibility as a generation is to help them learn how to think. Critical thinking is a dying art. Lawanda challenges them on how to think things through. [18:42] If they ask a question, Lawanda may ask them another question to help them think through it, and walk them through the thinking process, versus just giving them an answer. Also, she may use a reference that they have in their world. [19:03] Lawanda has godchildren who are young enough to keep her fresh with what's popular. Lawanda likes to use a reference that's familiar to students, to pull them into the thinking game; thinking through a process. Just asking and getting the answer is not transformative. [19:36] Justin says we don't want them always asking their phones for the answers. Lawanda says that flattens their thinking. It's important that we call them up to be critical thinkers. [19:50] One More Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year's honorees are two of our recent guests, Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and Marya Propis of RT Specialty. [20:14] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes. [20:18] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Internship Grant applications opened on August 15th and will close on October 15th. A link to the Internship Grants page is in this episode's show notes. Visit SpencerEd.org for more information. [20:39] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Lawanda Hall! [21:16] Lawanda says there is a communication gap between generations. That's not new. Every generation has that gap of understanding, based on where they sit. The socio-emotional gap is new and growing, created partly by the helicopter parenting, everybody-gets-a-trophy approach. [21:42] Lawanda says people who are entering the workforce are looking to work and contribute to make a living. People who are hiring are looking for that, too. They're looking for a good work ethic. The disconnect is in the how. The work they do hasn't changed as much as how they do it. [22:09] Lawanda has heard of people bringing their parents to work to advocate on their behalf because they don't have the courage to have the conversation with their boss. She has heard of this generation bringing their parents into interviews, because they're not sure what to do. [22:50] Lawanda leans into her curiosity and asks, How did we get here? Why are students not courageous enough or able to do these things on their own in their early 20s? She has questions of parents and questions of students, and the educational institutions? What are we not doing? [23:21] Lawanda says we have co-created this. We can't just put it on the students. They didn't raise themselves. They're not in a silo. We have to look at the entire environment and ask, Who contributed, how, and why? [23:40] Lawanda continues, Why are we here where we don't have adults who have the courage to show up in the way that they have in generations past? Justin displays his shock at the scenario. Lawanda doesn't know if the parents volunteer or if the students ask them to go. [24:39] Lawanda wants to examine that construct and ask what's going on here. Parents have gone from coaching to coddling. Lawanda says that's a big contributor to students' inability to sit as an adult with other adults, have courageous conversations, and show up with confidence. [25:08] Lawanda says if she had asked one of her parents to go to an interview with her, they would have laughed and told her she was crazy. They would not have entertained that. Why are parents doing it? These children did not raise themselves. [25:24] Lawanda says coaching is very important. When she coaches students for an hour, she can see the shift in their understanding. They're getting information, agency, and authority over their being that they didn't have before she talked to them. [25:40] Lawanda says, for some reason, there are parents who are not handing over agency and authority to students at the time that they need to, so you have 25- and 30-year-old teenagers who don't understand how to adult in the workforce. That is a big disconnect. [26:05] Lawanda says students are smart and capable of doing the work. How they show up for work, and the socio-emotional disconnect, is one of the biggest challenges for this generation of students and employees. It feels like babysitting. A business is not a day-care. [26:29] Lawanda says, you want them to come in, do work, and contribute, without having to feel like you need a whole team of Social Workers in HR to make sure that employees are OK. That's counterproductive and antithetical to adulting and what you expect from an adult. [27:35] Lawanda says judgment and criticism create more distance. Our goal is not to create more distance, but to close the gap, embrace them, bring them forward, and call them up into their power, into their authority, and hand over the agency to them, so that they understand. [27:48] It's not that they can't do it. They haven't been given permission to do it. They lack social opportunities in their everyday life, the things we took for granted, like going outside and playing kickball and hanging out with other kids. [28:06] You learn so much in that space. Your confidence grows, your courage grows, your problem-solving skills, and your thinking skills; all these things are taking place. These students aren't getting that. [28:17] They're in their room on their phones, scrolling, hearing opinions, giving opinions, being judged, judging, and not socializing. Justin says, it's all noise; it's not constructive. There's a difference between controlled chaos and chaos. Justin will not sit in on his kid's job interviews. [28:40] Lawanda says it starts before job interviews. At some point, you hand over the agency and say, you handle that on your own and then come back and tell me how it worked out. If you need me to come, I will, but you do it first, and let's see how it works out. [29:27] In restaurants, Justin makes sure that his children deal with the server. They hear and speak, and they know what they want. He doesn't speak for them. [29:43] Lawanda says that when you speak for your children forever, you never hand them their agency. You teach them that their voice is not valuable, that their voice doesn't matter, and that they don't have to think or speak up for themselves. That's not healthy evolution. [30:40] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is amazing. They do more than write checks. They embrace experiences for students. They give them opportunities to engage in industry exposure. They are great at holding folks accountable for how they spend the money. [31:08] Spencer Educational Foundation makes sure their dollars have wings, that evolution and growth are happening, and whatever the intention is for the money, that it is happening within the organizations and institutions they support. [31:26] Lawanda says this creates accountability and an environment of respect, generation after generation. Lawanda is happy to be part of the Spencer family. She also encourages others to be part of the Spencer family. [31:51] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is a place that operates with amazing integrity; she knows it will be around for a long time, just based on how they do business; not just what they do, but also how they do it. [32:07] Lawanda says, Spencer Educational Foundation is a beautiful investment of not just dollars, but also understanding, and a beautiful culture of accountability. [32:24] Lawanda is in Atlanta, Georgia. Justin mentions that RIMS has a very active chapter in Atlanta. Justin asks Lawanda what she would hope every RIMS chapter listening today would do to better support students and strengthen the next generation of risk professionals,  [32:48] Lawanda says, it's simple, but it's a big impact: Give the mic to the students. Lawanda has been in RIMS since she was in college. One thing the Atlanta chapter did was to have a session where students would do a case study on a topic and present it to the professionals. [33:12] Lawanda says every year, students had an opportunity to present their case study. When Lawanda was in school, they presented on TRIA because it was new. The professionals wanted to know more about it, so the students worked with professors to understand it and prepare it. [34:01] Lawanda says, We were able to present that to them and add value to their experiences, and also add a tremendous amount of confidence that encouraged the students to know they were valuable to the professionals, and the professionals were valuable to the students. [34:14] Lawanda says we have to be open to allowing ourselves to learn from the students and value their voice. When we value their voice, it calls them to understand the importance of their voice and having agency over their voice. That's one thing chapters can do to help students. [34:54] Justin is glad Lawanda brought up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), because next week's guest is former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski, who was instrumental in helping Congress understand the importance of TRIA in its earliest stages. [35:08] Next week we are going to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the September 11th  terrorist attacks, here on RIMScast with her. [35:22] Lawanda says in 25 years, she went from being mentored to being a mentor; Impact does not come in a one-size-fits-all package. You can have impact in a five-minute conversation and give them the opportunity to learn from your missteps or your mistakes in the industry. [35:50] You can have a longer relationship as a mentor, where you do check-ins and touchpoints, and kind of coach and cultivate, and help someone to understand what their possibilities are in different segments of their career. [36:08] Lawanda says she has understood that just because things are packaged a certain way doesn't mean that's the only packaging it can exist in. Micromentoring is valuable because not everyone has the capacity to take on a mentor for a year or six months. [36:34] Lawanda says if you encounter somebody, and spend three to five minutes with them, and give them the benefit of a lesson that you've learned, it can be a seed that will blossom beautifully along the way. Understand that impact exists in a variety of packages. [36:56] Justin says, It has been such a delight to see you! I hope to see you again at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Lawanda says she loves New Orleans and looks forward to being in that space for some good, productive meetings, and some really good food. [37:24] Lawanda, we appreciate all you do for our next generation of risk professionals. Your affiliation with Spencer is always valued. I look forward to seeing you in April! [37:50] Special thanks again to Lawanda Hall for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her prior RIMScast appearance is in this episode's show notes. She is one of our esteemed Risk Managers on Campus through the Spencer Educational Foundation's program. [38:05] The deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus Grant has passed, but I've put up a link so you can plan for 2027. [38:13] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information. [38:31] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [38:47] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [39:01] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected]. [39:13] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1 | Complimentary for all "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026 ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 | RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected] Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall — Intelligent Intentions Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22-24 | Complimentary For All "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau" "Choosing the Challenge with Johnell Holly" "A Menu of Risk Options with Elle Michell Hall" (2023)   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before a Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) 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RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, CEO, Intelligent Intentions Risk Manager on Campus   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.