The low post is presented by Amazon music. Did you know you could be listening to this episode of the low post ad-free on Amazon music? And now the low post. Welcome to the low post podcast where I am back from lovely Chicago, not so lovely the drive to O'Hare, just a complete nightmare Chicago get on it.
It shouldn't take me 90 minutes to get to go O'Hare no matter what time of day it is. The lottery happened. I was in the room. Victor Wembanyama will be going to the San Antonio Spurs.
And let me tell you, John, think of only, I've been in that lottery room so many times that they ask me to do their, you're here again, aren't you tired of this? I am the Elgin Baylor of the drawing room. And I have never been in a room as tense and nervous and frantic as that one. Not the Zion Lottery, not the AD Lottery.
I was there for both of them. This was something altogether different. Everybody understood the possibility of getting this guy on what it means. What was your initial reaction to the Spurs getting him?
And I read your piece today where you talked about how, in your opinion, and from what you've heard about people around the league, at least the people who are not bitter that they didn't get him because they had a chance that this is a great fit for him. What have you heard about that? What was your reaction? I was happy for him because, you know, I spent a lot of time with him now the past few years and with his family and his camp and so a lot of calls, you know, setting up all the, you know, different victor appearances that we've had, that we have still more coming here that we're going to see here on ESPN.
And I was just excited for him because, you know, I mean, these guys have no choice whatsoever about where to go and it's such an important thing for them to end up in the right spot. And I think it's really important for the NBA and for the basketball industry and for global basketball. And so I was, I know that he was really excited to end up in San Antonio. You can see his reaction, you can see his family's reaction privately, they were all saying the same thing, that that's really where he wanted to be.
And I think it's just great for the Spurs, you know, just been toiling and mediocrity for years now. And they were looking for that, you know, that face of the franchise and they got it now. They have this brand new facility that they're opening, the Sports Science Center and you know what, there's no better guy to cut that ribbon than Victor and for pop, you know, like one of the great figures in basketball here of our generation and just to see him, you know, kind of rejuvenated for a couple more years, hopefully. And, you know, usher in this talent and go out on a strong note, I think it's great for basketball.
So I was happy for him. And I think, you know, you are in the room, we were on set, you know, watching it, you know, kind of be unveiled and all the team officials and agents and all the players earned it, tends everybody except for Victor. And there was an incredible amount of tension in that room too and just like the gasp that you heard, you know, when Detroit fell from one to five. And then just, you know, I mean, the lottery is, is an incredible event, you know, just like seeing kind of the face of a franchise, people's careers, you know, being turned on, you know, it's something that they have just zero control on.
It's remarkable a year after a year. I love it, it's my favorite thing. It's just beyond ridiculous and in the best possible way. And this is not to demean the Spurs at all.
The Spurs record speaks for itself. They drafted Tony Parker 29 or whatever it was. They drafted Manage and Obly in the late 50s. They swung an all-time trade for Kawhi Leonard at 15.
The record, and it goes beyond that. But it is a reminder that for as genius as you are, as good as you are at your job in finding Manu playing in Italy and getting on him at age 18 and all this, it's Tim Duncan and it's Victor Wienbanyama and it's the luck of the lottery. And none of it is possible that that, like you said, the Spurs, ever since the Leonard situation went sideways, this is a team that's just been in total purgatory and they made a decision over the last 18 months. We don't want to be in purgatory.
We want to bottom out. We want to bottom out with this draft is our target. And they had an 86% chance of not getting the guy that everybody was targeting and a 14% chance of getting him. And they got him.
And now they have a nice score of Wienbanyama. Devin Vassell, I think is going to be a great complimentary player. He's got to work on his play, making a little bit. But I like him.
Kelton Johnson, Kelton Johnson's contract is going to be a ridiculous value contract. It declines to 17 and a half million in 2027. I love Sohann as a jack of all trades. They still have to get some guards and figure all that out.
And by the way, everyone's like, are they going to make a playoffs next year? How fast are they going to hit the accelerator? I don't know what you've heard. My guess is that they are not going to rush this at all.
They're going to take a year, see what they have, see how they think it's best to keep Victor healthy, see how many games he can play. Yeah, maybe they'll add a veteran point guard here. I mean, it's Slim Pickens and Free Agency. They have all these picks in the bank from Atlanta and other places.
Like I don't get the sense yet that at least for the next calendar year, they're going to go like, whole hog, we got to start winning big time right away. Maybe in a year, if he proves really good, like all star level good immediately, that changes it. But that's my best read on it. What is yours?
I agree with you. I don't see them cutting corners here and making a short side move just to try and get the AC'd next year. I mean, like you said, they've got a very strong core here with Vaselle, Calvin Johnson, Branham, and Jeremy Selhan, who to me is the perfect compliment for with Victor when Vignama, that's exactly the kind of guy you want next to him. And I just, I don't see them tanking next year also.
I think that they're going to kind of let the cards fall as they do and they're going to try and compete. And they're, you know, if they make the play in game, great. I mean, a lot of it is going to come down to how many games Victor is going to play, not because he's going to get hurt, but because I think they're going to bring him along slowly. I think they're going to.
I totally agree. I don't know where to even begin setting the over under on games played for Victor next year. Like, it's, I wouldn't set it that high. They're not going to tank you right.
And that's going to be a fight though, because Victor is going to want to play every game. And so there's going to be some push and pull there. We're going to have to explain to him long term what they're trying to do because this is a guy that did not miss a single game this year. And so he's going to have to explain to him, hey, Victor, you're healthy, but we're scratching you tonight.
You're going to be in sweats on the bench. He's going to be like, what are you talking about? That's not the way I'm wired. So we'll see how that works.
I wanted to ask you about that because you and Brian have spent a lot of time, and especially you, around Victor and his team in France. And you published a wonderful story with Brian this week about the making of Victor Wembeyama and his work ethic and him watching pistol peat videos and him remaking his hand position on his jump shot independently. If people should go read that story if they can. There was one quote in there that I wanted to make sure to ask you, but I can't remember which member of his team said it.
I don't have it in front of me. I think it was one of his agents said, Victor will not be put in a box. You're going to have, and the second half of the quote is something. You're going to have to work around what he can do.
I wanted you to add a little more context to that. How that played out in his career in Europe, because he changed teams several times. Did you outline with an eye on his development, with an eye on making sure he found a team that was going to be tailored to his development? And B, is it possible to translate that mindset to San Antonio?
Like, how does that translate to the NBA that won't be put in a box thing? I think it's possible to translate it because they need a face for the franchise. They need a guy that the organization revolves around. And he's the star.
And I think that's what he was looking for. And that's what excites him so much is that this is Victor Wembeyama's team right now. And they're going to build around him. Now, that doesn't mean he's going to be doing all these stupid things.
You know, like, they're going to steer him because Victor is a guy that you can coach at the same time. And he picked Vincent Coley not because he wanted to go to some circus show where he's going to shoot the ball 30 times. To be clear for people who don't know, that is the longtime coach of the French national team, who is his most recent club coach in France. Yeah, Vincent is a tough coach.
He's going to, he didn't go somewhere where they're just going to roll out the ball and let him do whatever he wants. And so I think it's going to be a similar thing with pop at the same time. Pop is going to coach him. They're going to go at each other.
But pop has the gravitas to tell Victor, no. You know, like I coached Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, manager, this is how it's going to be. But at the same time, the Spurs need Victor to be great. So they're going to do what it takes to put him in a position to be successful.
And when they say Victor would not be put in a box, that means he's not going to be this guy that, you know, he's a traditional center that uses post up, you know, 30 times a game. He wants to have that freedom to be on the perimeter, to create his own shot, to play pick and roll, to take a defensive rebound and push the ball 94 feet and throw a skip pass to the corner. And so that's what he means. And that's what he hasn't always had throughout his career.
And he's told me, said, when I have been put in that box, things don't go well. And that's when you maybe see him mope around a little bit and not give 100% on defense. And so that's those are the things that the Spurs are going to need to work through. He's gotten so much better in that regard with his competitiveness and his willingness to do the little things to defend and box out and rebound and be that, you know, that guy that plays both ends of the floors.
I mean, honestly, the best thing that he brings right now is his defense. He's learned how to impact a game on that end of the floor. And so that's what they're going to work through is surrounding him with the right pieces to make sure he gets the most out of himself. You and I were both in Chicago for a lot of the week.
Obviously, everybody, the whole NBA is there. Minus Bob Myers, whose contract negotiations are ongoing, we'll see how he was planning to go there later this week. You might be there today for a long time. It's a big deal, by the way, Bob Myers contract negotiations.
And the athletic reported late last night that they are far apart and the warriors and the rest of the league are bracing was the quote for Bob Myers to leave the warriors. I heard that same kind of pessimism being whispered around the combine. We'll see. It's going to impact their negotiations, but that's it.
You're here. Nor there. Let me tell you, and I'm sure you've heard this too, the level of exuberance about what this guy is going to be in the NBA and how much hype is too much hype. So here's what's too much hype.
Chris Prusard, who I've worked with and like a lot said yesterday that if he is not better than Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant, or if he's, I think it was if he's Anthony Davis Kevin Durant, another player, that will be a disappointment. There's no sentence in the world where being Kevin Durant is a disappointment. Kevin Durant is like at worst the 15th greatest player in the history of the NBA. So that's too much hype.
Here's the conversation I had with a lot of people. It's not how good this guy is going to be. It's how fast he's going to get good. Is it going to be like a slightly slower burn?
Like it's going to take two or three years for him to become an all-star? Or is he just going to walk into the league and become a top 20 player immediately? There are people who think that that's in play. There are other people who are like, hey, he's not like Tim Duncan was 22, right?
When Manama's 18, not going to be 19, whatever he's going to be. He's got to fill out a little bit. Let's pump the brakes on that. But there are people who think he's going to be immediately a great player.
And if not immediately, it's just a matter of time. Like that's the level of like what people are saying on TV about his potential is not hyperbole. This is it. You will not find anyone.
I can't find anyone in the NBA who's like, maybe he'll just be like decent. That's like doesn't exist. Does it? I haven't heard that.
I haven't heard that from anyone credible. I am in the camp that thinks he will compete for an all-star nod his rookie year. Maybe it's an injury replacement or whatever. But I mean, again, it's going to come down to how many games he plays, which we're going to see.
But I think just the impact that he's going to make defensively is going to be immediate. Just with the... That's what stands out. I mean, you've watched it way more than I have.
Seven foot five, eight foot wingspan. The feel for the game, the anticipation skill is the mobility, the fluidity, the cover ground on the perimeter. He can switch. He can drop.
He can play in a zone and protect the rim. He is the zone. Exactly. Just good luck scoring on that guy.
He just puts his arms in the air and he's going to be an impactful guy. And then in the floor, and then you talk about what he does. He's probably not going to be a great shooter from day one partially because of shots. He's shooting in the low 30s or the high 20s or whatever on the season.
He's a great shooter who is figuring out which shots to take right now. But I think the NBA game is going to suit him much better than the European game. We saw it in the night games, 36 points, 37 points. I think he's going to be a 20 point for game guy from day one.
So I do think he's going to compete for an all star nod and it's going to be really, really fun to watch. The shot blocks that catch everyone's eyes are the ones where he like rotates from the rim to the corner and blocks of three. Those are awesome. Like don't get me wrong.
Those are ridiculous. The ones that make me go like, oh my god, is when he's guarding someone at the elbow and he's guarding them. He's at the elbow. So he's at the foul lane and someone drives baseline and seems like they have a layup.
And he makes that rotation so fast. And he's so long that like the ball doesn't even leave the poor guy's hand. Like it's not even up on the way. It's not even on the way up.
It just is in Victor's hand. And those are the blocks that are going to be more available to him more often than those like spectacular corner close up. That's like an every possession kind of rotation that's there. It's it's it's remarkable what he can do.
Let me tell you what the can I tell you what the room was like for those who don't have ESPN insider. So there are four teams inside or come on. There are people who don't want to pay for it and that's fine. So there are 14 ping pong balls in the machine.
One to 14. There are a thousand combinations of four numbers and each team owns a certain number of those combinations based on how bad they were the previous season. So the worst teams have 140 each I think. And they have all the low numbers.
So like one and two and three is Detroit's in Antonio Charlotte. If your four number combination has those numbers in it, it's if the one that comes up has those low numbers and it's going to be one of those two teams. Ball one 14. Everyone's in.
Everyone's in right away. 14 14 is the highest possible number in the back row Teresa Rush from the Raptors who had the second worst odds Elbowd Bryson Graham from the Pelicans who had the worst odds and was like, Oh, we're in. We're in. It's not loud.
It's not like I heard that they told me they told me afterwards. We're in second ball five. Okay. Most most most teams still in no low numbers yet.
In the ball eight, there's 10 seconds between balls. Let me tell you right now the 10 seconds between 14 and five, five and eight and eight in the last ball were borderline excruciating because almost the whole room is in at 14, five and eight and everyone has this eight page document. Every team representative has this eight page document that has all the combinations and who owns them? Everyone is like flipping through right through papers like people are shaking and you know who had it the best, not even at the best chance, but okay.
So 14, five, eight. Every single Washington Wizards combination started with five. They had no numbers lower than five. There were 11 balls left in the hopper.
Six of those 11 balls deliver Victor Wembeyama to the Wizards, six of them, most of the high ones. Brett Greenberg, who's the assistant GM of the Wizards realized it right away. And if you watch the video, he leans over on his sheet and he's like, and he's leaning like hunching over on the sheet, gripping it. And then the last ball comes up and it's two and everyone's like, two.
Okay, that's going to be one of the worst teams. So most of us just got eliminated. Brian Wright, the Spurs GM is sitting there like he's trying to figure out who wins it. And the Rockets guy elbows Brian Wright and is like, man, that's you.
That's you. So for like 30 seconds, the whole world was in play for Wembeyama and then it went to the Spurs. Did you read the thing about RC Buford's chair? I did.
So let me tell people about so I run out. So they let us out of the room. We're locked in the room. We're not locked in the room.
Like if someone had a bathroom emergency, they might let us out. But we got no phones, no laptops, no, I think they let us out as soon as the show's over. Everyone scampers up to the ballroom looking for the right people to get a quote. And I see RC Buford by himself.
I was like, I gotta go see hi, say hi to RC. And I ask him the stupidest question possible with the only the only question, just like, did you flashback to the Tim Duncan lottery in 1997. I'm not expecting some pithy, spursy and like, you know, we're really fortunate. We're just gonna have to develop another great player.
And RC looks and he starts laughing. You're a goddamn right I did. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, let me tell you this story.
I was sitting in my office when we won the 1997 lottery and I was sitting in a blue leather chair. It's my lucky chair. From that moment on, it was my lucky chair. When my daughter went to college, I gave it to her.
She took it to college. Never, it's gone. She's the blue leather chair belongs to her. 3 p.m.
Central time ish. RC Buford arrives at his hotel room in Chicago. Opens the door. The chair is in the room.
He has a card on it because it was his birthday and it was a birthday card. And he's like, that's the chair. At that moment, the lottery gods were like, you know what, you've gone the extra mile. He's going to the spurs.
I just can't believe that that chair needs to be, it needs its own private room at whatever the arena is called down in San Antonio or in the practice facility. All right, that's the end of my tales from the lottery. Then there were, then we had some post-it-sallad and some sandwiches and watched the television show. And some people were sad and some people were happy.
Brian Wright was especially happy. There was disappointment that he didn't react. He was criticized in the room for being too professional. People wanted a lack of professionalism and he was very professional and everybody was universally disappointed.
We got a great reaction on the set. Let's go. I mean, that was, I've never seen time before. That was amazing.
That was good. And Peter Holt, the Spurs governor, it's not a peek at the envelope and just got a head start on the celebration. He saw the number two envelope. He was like, okay, here we go.
Well, it was teal because the number two pick is the Charlotte Hornets and the number three pick is the Portland Trailblazers. And as I wrote that night, as soon as Portland came up three, the whole league began speculating about are they going to trade this pick and package it with something to get Damian Lillard? Because the expectation is as of now in less name, and this is like fourth straight year of saying this, like changes his mind and really forcefully ass out, which there's no indication that that's happening. They're going to try to win.
They're going to try to win around here and they're going to be signed Jeremy Grant and this pick will be in play and Joe Cronin, like pretty much acknowledged. I'm going to listen to offers for this pick. But Charlotte it too. That's where the draft gets interesting.
You released your mock draft right after the lottery and you have Brandon Miller going to Charlotte over scoot Henderson. And now there's this big debate over can scoot and lamellow work? If not, should they just take Brandon Miller? Do they try to flip flop picks and get an extra asset if they want Brandon Miller?
What is your latest read on Charlotte's intentions? I, you know, the best part about being here in Chicago is that the access that you have to every single person in the NBA. And honestly, like it's a near consensus in the gym that Charlotte is going to take Brandon Miller. I'm not ready to go that far because knowing Mitch Kupchak, the workout is going to be very, very important there.
So scoot Henderson has an opportunity to go in there and blow the doors off in his workout. And I think he has that type of talent. I've watched him work out individually. I've seen him practice.
He's an exceptional talent. Just the body right away when he walks in the gym, you're like, holy cow, this guy's huge. Long arms, you know, incredibly explosive and has very, very dynamic shot making ability in a workout setting, which, you know, he's not a great shooter at this stage. But I think that's going to alleviate some of the concerns around do you have enough shooting with lamellow and scoot Henderson.
And I think lamellow is a type of guy that can coexist with almost any player. I mean, he's a Halliburton type, passer, cutter, off-ball mover. He loves, you know, hitting ahead in transition. He's not a ball dominant guy.
He's also not a disincredibly explosive athlete that you want, creating his own shot every single possession of a game. So I don't subscribe to this series that scoot and lamellow can't coexist at the same time. But I just think that you look at their wing depth at the same time. And you look at the season that Brandon Miller had, SEC player of the year, first team All American, you know, Mitch Kupchak was front and center for his best game of the season.
He dropped 41 points at South Carolina. He was very, very excited after that game. I was told and Scoot Henderson had some, he did not have the kind of season where you're like, okay, he locked up to number two pick. So done deal.
He only played half the games. He looked like he was in cruise control half the time. He didn't make a lot of progress with his defense, with his shooting, with his decision making. He really opened up the door for a guy like Brandon Miller, who's like, every team in the NBA is looking for this type of player.
Six, nine, big guard can handle the ball, pass out of pick and roll, make shots off the dribble, defend multiple positions, rebound. I mean, that's what people are looking for. At the same time, he is not in great shape right now. So I don't know how great his workout is going to be.
His interviews have not been great. I've been told both publicly and privately with NBA teams. And so the door, I think there's, I would put it 60% Brandon Miller at two, 40% Scoot Henderson. I think it's, and I do think they're going to have trade conversations too.
I'd be shocked if they traded, it'd be out of their minds. Honestly, like the best thing in the world that could have happened for them is getting the number two pick. But then there's also this kind of cloud hovering over them, you know, who's going to own this team in three months, six months from now, you know, this MJ decided to hold on now. I mean, it's for them to move up and forward to two is huge.
I would assume the value of the franchise went up a little bit, not as much as had they gotten number one. I think a lot of question marks here. And you know, you talk about Portland. I don't see them trading it either, honestly.
I think they'd be very happy with Brandon Miller or Scoot Henderson. I was thinking if they're going to kick the tires on the Thompson twins on cam Whitmore, I think this is going to be a process here where they're looking at a lot of different options, you know, show. I wonder, so you would, you would predict they keep the pick. If the draper cannot, yeah, I think they would keep the pick.
That's interesting because look, what trader you're going to make that makes them like a finals contender right away, you know, like, I mean, that's, I don't think that, you know, Joe Kohnen just signed this extension, you know, like he's there long term. Mike Schmitz is there long term. They want to build for the, I mean, they are committed to game 100%, but at the same time they have this incredible window. Shading Sharp is, he looks like he's going to be an All-Star Zack, but it's not going to happen next year.
So this is like the best that could have happened to them. Moving up to three, getting a guy that in two or three years from now as the day window closes is ready to make that leap to being an all NBA player because it's not going to happen for Scoot Henderson from day one also. I mean, so guards, especially it takes them a while to get good. It takes them a while to impact winning.
And so I mean, maybe I'm wrong. We'll see what kind of trade offers are out there for them. I don't see them trading with it. It's interesting, you know, we're in Chicago when the Marant stuff happens, right?
And that reminds everyone of the 2019 draft and how Zion just never plays. And six, eight months ago, Memphis and New Orleans were like the two great rising powers in the Western Conference. And there's a sense now that like, huh, maybe the West will be kind of quote unquote open in the next couple of years. And so you ask me what trade makes them a finals contender.
And on the one hand, well, hey, the West is open. And if we could package number three and Anthony Simons, could we get Mcale Bridges? I don't think that gets you there. Could we get OG and an OB?
Not sure that gets you here. Does that make you a finals contender? I'm in the West, maybe. On the other hand, maybe the West is so wide open.
You try to thread the needle like you just described and collect all these young guys, maybe one or two of them pop at the same time. Maybe Nurgage gets healthy. I, it has a great season and all of a sudden you're like, Oh, we're pretty darn good. But if I'm teaming Liller and I'm 32 and I'm looking around, I got Simons in sharp and Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson and like all these guys are exciting.
Are they that exciting to me? I don't know. Maybe they are. And I also think like the degree to which the West is quote unquote wide open, like Demerang going anywhere.
Phoenix isn't going anywhere. I know everyone's disappointed them as long as they have those two dudes that are not going anywhere. Clippers and Lakers, you know, they'll go for it. Warriors will see what happens.
Like, you know, it's a really interesting choice to me what Portland does there. And at the same time, Houston at four, you have, you have, I'm in Thompson going there, right? Yes. Everyone is very excited about him.
The Houston stuff. First of all, I think you may have to go do a very good job there. Just getting that house in order. Second of all, I just don't really get, I don't get any of the noise coming out of Houston.
I don't really get the infatuation with bringing a declining James Harden back on a potential four year max deal. I don't get any rumors at all. This has been reported elsewhere, not by us. I have not heard this independently, but that like they'd listen on jail and green.
No, I don't. That might be that might mean again, I haven't heard that. That might mean they listen if you like, just, it's just ludicrous, but I would not. I don't get the, I don't get any of that.
Can you enlighten me on Houston? Cause if I'm them, I'm like, what's just, I know they owe their pic next year, but I'm not rushing this just for the sake of rushing it. I haven't heard that stuff. But honestly, if you look at it from the outside and you're in that front office, you're wondering if we have just an okay year if we lose in the first round of the playing game or whatever, we get swept in the first round of the playoff, that would be amazing for Houston next year.
I mean, you hear rumors about, you know, are they looking around and adding something to the front office? Do they, you know, like do you have a job in a year from now? And that's when front offices tend to make mistakes is when they don't feel long term security coming from the ownership and they decide, I need to make a win now move right now. And then you start to look at their pieces and all that they don't have their draft pick next year if it's top, top four protected.
And so that's where I could see them trying to get as good as possible right away. You know, you, you keep hearing that hard into them. You know, it's likely if not a done deal. And so I will say, I will say the dock firing, the whispers going around Chicago when that happened was, ooh, I wonder if that, if that complicates hardens path to Houston a little bit.
If that makes it more likely that harden will come back to Philly, I don't know, I don't know James Harden, I don't know James Harden's people like that. So who knows? I think both possibilities are probably still in play. And to me, like what would have happened if Houston won the lottery?
My, my, I was, this is what I was pulling people the day of the lottery. If you're the Rockets and you win the lottery, does that make you more? If you're the GM, does that make you more or less likely to go after Harden? What would you have answered that question?
More likely. Really? I would have gone less. I would have gone like, we got when Panyama was, wash our hands with this 32 year old guy.
No, he's a franchise legend. Let's just pivot totally. Other way you, you think let's try to like actually make a huge jump right away. I think Victor is ready to help you win games.
I mean, I think that that's how you make a jump defensively. It's bringing a guy in with an eight foot wingspan who blocks everything. So yeah, I mean, again, he's not looking to lose, you know, so you want to get that train going and not, you know, keep this vicious cycle of losing and more lottery picks, that's not how you get on the right foot with him. Baseball fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN, all in one place.
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Sign up for activate now. Can I ask you about two other teams that I'm curious about? Sure. Team number one, Orlando Magic, who were over 500 for about the last 55 games of the season kind of backs a little bit their last three games, but I think prove themselves a legit decent team.
And they've been over patient trying to win games. Like at some point, they're going to have to just do something to try to win games. They have the number six pick that's their pick. They have the number 11 pick courtesy of the Bulls, the end game of just all time disaster trade for Chicago.
What is the early buzz on? I mean, to me, they have cat room. They have those two picks. They have a window, I think now is the time to hit the gas around Wagner and Bancaro and some of the other pieces they have there.
I mean, they could package those picks and move up. They could package those picks for a veteran. They could just keep the picks. I mean, everything's in play.
I have no idea what they're going to do. What do you think? Yeah, they have a lot of flexibility. And that was what people were questioning.
They said, well, what is 611 and one of their young players, not, you know, obviously Paulo or Franz Wagner get you, you know, how high does that get you? And we're what kind of veteran does it get you? Who's available for them? And so like I think that they're ready to take the next step and try and start winning some games here, you know, they're not going for the lottery again.
Like next year's draft, it looks to be our paper pretty weak at this point. So I mean, people have that incentive to try and be better next year. And I think they're going to be one of those teams that's going to try and make a push. What do they give them to specifically?
I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm fascinated by another thing is everyone now knows what the new CBA is, that it's looming. And some of the teams with cap room are in the middle or just some executives who kind of study this stuff and try to try to sort of game plan it out. The anticipation is that some of the expensive teams, not all of them, some of them in anticipation of the crunch that's coming when all the new rules kick in, which that there will be a couple, a few gettable good players that those teams shed just to get off money.
And if you have cap room and flexibility, you might be able to get them for cheap. So I think a team like Orlando, San Antonio, even they can look to pick off a player like that for very low cost instead of going whole hog with these picks. I think there's a lot of option out here and play the other team. Everyone wants to know what Utah is going to do.
Everyone because Utah has up to just a banana of cap room, depending on a couple of decisions, they have all the Minnesota picks, all the Cleveland pick picks, a Philly pick, another pick I'm forgetting. And in this draft, they have nine. That's their pick, 16. That's a Minnesota pick in 28.
I can't remember who's picked that is. Three first round picks in this draft. And everyone's wondering, are they going to try to speed this up more than they anticipated based on exceeding expectations last year? They have a great coach and will Hardy, Kessler, and the whole thing.
I couldn't get a read. I couldn't get a read. I was in the lottery room with Ryan Smith. I tried to get a read.
I couldn't get a read. And I think the question they'll have to ask themselves is, I think they'd be happy to try to win more games next year and hit the accelerator a little bit, not floor it, but the question is going to be, well, who's the guy? Like who's not like they're going to go trade for Bradley Beale or somebody that just doesn't fit their timeline. I think who's the guy is going to be tricky for them, but I bet they could.
I'll bet they'll look around as some names. Yeah. I think that they were surprised a little bit at how good they were. I don't think that necessarily was the plan there.
So I just don't know. They're not going to be any worse next year. Just when you play that hard, you're going to win games in the NBA and you've got really good players, you know, like with Larry Markham, especially. So I, yeah, I mean, but they've also got some real holes in the back court that they need to fail.
I think that they're going to build slowly. They're going to, you know, they're going to, they have these three first round picks. I anticipate them using them, maybe taking some swings on tower and you're trying to hit a home run because they have that, you know, they have the stability there to not have to make a win now move right now. So I think they're, they're in like, you know, one of the best situations of any team in the NBA right now.
Yeah. I mean, if you look at their books, Clarkson player option 14, too, probably declines that THT who went bananas in the last month of the season. Player option 11, that's interesting. Rudy Gay player option six and a half.
I'm going to go ahead and check that one off. And then a Linux deal is non guaranteed for the most part, like 75% non guarantee. Like they have a lot, they just got lost tough man. I don't know what they're going to do in their Utah.
So it's not like if you're going to trade for someone, it's going to be someone who's under contract for a good number of years. Can we go back to the LaMello scoot thing? Sure. So we had scoot on NBA today in Chicago.
There's just me and Malik and scoot. And I asked him this is, I had this. It's the obvious question. I said, you know, you're either going to play with name or you're going to play with LaMello.
Two guys who had the ball a lot. And he said he did what he's supposed to do, which is say, well, I can play with anybody, but he, you can tell when someone's just saying stuff and you can tell when someone with a bravado believes it. And he's like, I'm an also off-ball player. I don't know why people don't think like, I can't play off the ball.
My jumper's going to be fine. I can cut. I can move. I love playing defense and like he was animated and he was into it.
I know he's giving the answer he's supposed to give. I have no real issue with like a double back court like that. The one thing I would push back on is I thought LaMello did veer into ball hog territory last year. I didn't like the way I felt like he got away from himself as like, he's an incredible passer and he did average eight and a half assists.
He took 21 shots per 36 minutes. And I think he was like one of two or three guys in the league who took that many shots per 36 minutes and less than four free throws per 36 minutes. He was kind of like chucking a little bit. And he only played 36 games, obviously because of the ankle stuff.
If that's just interesting to me, and that was a lost season for the horn. It's just injuries up and down the roster, the miles, bridges situation. It was a season to chuck. If you want to chuck, chuck away.
I just am interested to see how he plays next year and how he would, how he would adapt to a scoot Henderson. I'm like less interested in how scoot would adapt to a LaMello ball than the other way around. Is that there already friends? I mean, LaMello is friends with everybody.
I mean, there's not a single basketball player who doesn't like LaMello ball. They're already friends off the court. And I think LaMello would be very excited to have a guy like scoot who some people wonder, like, does he maybe pivot towards maybe like the Donovan Mitchell route, you know, like not being, you know, like this, you know, natural point guard. But I think he's wired to score.
And LaMello to me is naturally unselfish. So I think that that combination could work. I just don't know if they want that's the direction that they want to go in. I mean, I think they just they're probably tired of losing, you know, and those two guys are not going to win you many games next year.
And again, you start to talk about the stability of, you know, like your position, you know, the front office long term with ownership and all that. And that's where things get complicated, you know, so like that's where people maybe make a short term decision that's best for them knowing, hey, we got to show some progress and we need to, you know, maybe make a run to the AC like they've, you know, that's their historical track records. So that's where, you know, a lot of people think Brandon Miller is just a more natural fit for their roster. Um, and that's why, you know, you have to have some creativity to put it together a back court of school, head, or single metal ball.
And I just don't know if, you know, people see that vision there in Charlotte. Are there any other teams in the lottery that we didn't talk about that? You think I've interesting decisions to make or that you had a hard time pegging for your, your first mock draft that you wanted to talk about? Yeah, I mean, the situation in Washington is really interesting.
You know, like how do they go about their pre draft process, you know, without having a lead decision maker in place? I mean, how do you conduct workouts? How do you, you know, figure out, you know, what you're going to do with Christoph Worsing is and Kyle Kuzm, so like, I think they need to hit the accelerator here at some point and figure out, you know, like which direction they're going in so they can, you know, decide what do they want to do without a pick and what do they want to do with Brad Beale and with Coosmine for his English, you know, like you try and be bad. You go through like an actual rebuild, which they probably has been overdue there for some time.
So I think, you know, that's one of the comments, you're like, what is, who is like, they've been keeping things pretty tight, you know, like you hear Trajan Langdon, you hear Michael Winger, you hear Elton Brand, you know, like, but nobody has a real post. I'm like, what are they actually going to do? So that's going to be an interesting one for the basketball nerds. Those three names.
Trajan is the one I know, least of those three. Those three names suggest to me that they are zeroing in on the right kind of people. Those are those are all people based on what I know and what I've heard. And now I've talked to them that I would trust to run my team that are going to be creative decision makers, courageous decision makers, guys who are going to be not particularly Elton will go against the grain if he thinks it's the right move.
And I think you need that Calvin Booth is like that too in Denver. And I think that has served in August 12 when he was number two and now he's is the number one. That's interesting. Really interesting week in Chicago.
I only got to spend three or four days there, but the GM meetings were interesting. Did you see some of the stuff that came out? I had it in my call about the GM meetings two day draft or you up for a two day draft. I think that might I wonder if that's like connected to a potential third round.
Do they want to make it a two day TV event? I honestly think the second round, it goes by way too fast. And I do think they're leaving something on the table there with like yolkich being drafted during a Taco Bell commercial, you know, I mean, it's just it's hard to keep track. All the pics being swapped and all that.
I mean, to give it a little bit of breathing room every kid, you know, here's his name called and then they can actually talk about him on the broadcast, you know, having the five minute window, I think would be a lot better. And so like, can you stretch that out to two days? I don't know what the format for that. Maybe like I guess that means the first round be 10 minute pics, 15 minute pics.
I mean, there's so much happening during the draft with the trades and all that. And you know, whoa, going nuts. And so I do think that there is, you know, there's a window there to make it something bigger, you know, more similar to the NFL draft. I'll just list them here.
A couple of other things that came out of the GM meetings. I was told the most lively topic of discussion was, have we become too much of a scoring league? How can we help defenses even to score a little bit? I don't know what concrete solutions there were for that.
Flopping, big movement to like we got to start penalizing flopping. I love it all about it. How can we make the last week or two of the season less awful, which is an interesting conversation. There have been ideas about after a certain point, if you're in the lottery, like you get credit for winning rather than losing.
I don't really know how that would work. And I think it'd be hard for fans to understand. And I think the seating juggling really got on people's nerves this year. With all the like every team looking for games, head and be like, that thing's going to lose on purpose.
So we should lose on purpose in this game, trying to find ways to make the higher seeds more valuable and also make the lower seeds less valuable, maybe in terms of like your ability to pick your opponent. The easiest one is just let every top seed one to three pick their opponent so that you can't control here. You're going to play that idea has never caught on. And if you want to propose something more aggressive, like I've heard, you should you get, you know, five home games if you're the number one seed.
I don't think that's ever going to happen. Should you get more TV money if you're in the top two or three or four seeds? Then if you're like, I don't seem a little crazy to me, but I thought those were interesting. Really?
I'm jealous you're still there. Yeah, last day of scrimmage is today. And then the pro day, bananas tomorrow, you know, go home for a couple of days and get on a plane, go to LA and then four more days of pro days. Yeah.
And then the U16, the USA basketball training camp, I'm looking forward to that camp booster. So yeah, no, it's a fun time of year for sure. Yeah, you don't get to linger too much on this draft. You're already like, you're already 24, 20, 25, 26.
That's why you are you are John Thinkaboney, go down to the lobby at the anonymous hotel and meet up with all the NBA people who are there. I was talking my talking my mouth off the last three days there. Have fun. Thank you for your time.
Enjoy Chicago. Thanks, Zach. All right. Let's talk about the actual basketball that's going on because it's conference finals time one game a night.
You just sink your teeth into it. The bow or it nuggets Lakers resumes tonight. So we're not going to hit it at length here. I might do an episode tomorrow of tonight's game is interesting enough because it's not not a lot of point talking about games can happen soon, but we'll see if Yolkich can solve the riddle of Ruihajima or a spoiler alert.
I think that he'll be okay doing that. But the Lakers, they just play their ass off, man. They play their ass off. I think it's going to be a really fun series.
I think tonight is going to be a really fun game. Lots of adjustments and counters and all that stuff. But let's talk East Miami, Boston, game one in Boston. I think ESPN analytics or I think you don't have some called them assalytics or something like that gave the Miami heat a 90s 97% chance of losing this series and the Miami heat just continuing one of the great borderline inexplicable runs in the history of the NBA postseason storm into Boston with their 26th ranked regular season offense and hang 123 on the Celtics just the Ho-Hum 16 of 31 from deep took more threes in the Celtics, which is so much surprising.
Jimmy Butler. Sure. I'll give you 35, 7, 5, 6 steals. Sure.
Caleb Martin, 15 more points. Kyle Lowry, turn it back to clock. This is this is just crazy. The heat in the regular season, 112 points per 100 possessions, 25th in the NBA.
The heat in the playoffs, 116 points, 6 points per 100 possessions, 4.5 points more. That's third in the playoffs. And when you consider that the level of competition is all good teams, and I know they haven't well, they face the bucks, which is a great defense and extra just okay. It's just incredible.
And if you look at like, how are they doing this? Is their shot selection any different? No, turnover rates a little lower other than that. Free throws, offensive rebounds.
No, they're just shooting better. They're shooting better from three. That's really all it is. They moved the ball like all hell.
They cut and they move and they screen until they get what they want. And Jimmy Butler is just, is just being the best guy. Chris Herring. How are you?
Zach, I'm doing pretty well in yourself. Did you pick Celtics in five, six? I mean, what was your pick? There's just no, I just have it.
I just can't, my brain is still digesting that the Miami heater here. It's, it's really incredible. Yeah. I picked the Celtics in seven, but it's really.
But, but you know, honestly, it's mostly out of respect for the heat. It's, we think about it and obviously there are questions about it now that I think are going to intensify about the, the Joe Missoula, Eric Spolstra, match up, you know, a guy that is in this for the first time. And, you know, I'm sure we'll get to it in a lot of your podcasts today. There's that aspect of it.
Yes, the Celtics have more talented papers. So did the, so did the Bucks, you know, granted the Bucks were without your honest, but there's a factor here that just keeps the heat in it. I think a lot of it gets down to their identity. They know exactly who they are.
And, you know, when we talk about a team that plays more zone, defense than any other team, statistically over at least the last 20 years or whatever it is. This is a team that knows who they are this time of year when we're talking about the playoffs that goes a long way. I don't know that it makes you a favorite necessarily. But also as we've seen now for at least one round, maybe two, maybe this would be a third, you know, you can't really put a ceiling on, on a team that knows exactly what they are, who they are when they have a closer like Butler and a guy that can just impact a game the way that you're but looking.
Jimmy is just, it's just unbelievable. The shot making hunting Derek White, hunting Peyton Pritchard, whose appearance in the rotation is just bizarre to me. I don't understand how Peyton Pritchard jumped. Grant Williams in the rotation.
I continue to think that Grant Williams must be stealing people's lunches out of the refrigerator at the Celtics team facility because this banishment makes no sense to me. Not that it's like a big deal during the conference finals. Um, Boston, I thought gave him switches way too easily. But part of the reason that's happening is because teams used to go under on Jimmy Butler pick pick and rolls to avoid switching.
And they're like terrified to do it. Now they're terrified to give him any space. And I thought Robert Williams on switches gave him too much space. And he was like, Oh, I got, I got like a cushion here.
This is like a 13 foot jumper for me. Easy speeds. I thought Robert Williams had a bad game in game one defensively. Um, and I just want to shout out Jimmy Butler.
Here's just a partial list of players that he has been the primary defender on during the postseason. Yannis Brook Lopez, when they needed someone to guard Brook Lopez, because they want to ban on Yannis, maybe Jimmy can do that too. Jalen Brunson. Okay.
Then Jimmy, you know, has the ankle issue. We got to take them off. Jill Brunson, RJ Barrett. All right.
Well, can you guard Mitch Robinson for us? And I say, hardness time because we want to ban on Julius Randall or we want to we want to do that. Okay, sure. Do that.
Jason Tatum. Okay. Jalen Brown. sure.
Every position, every guy, he's ducking nobody despite the fact that he is single handedly carrying the Miami offense, every guy, every position, every type of player. And again, last night, both Boston wings, you and guard, Horford, sure, I can do that. Like it's the guy is having an all time great playoffs. And other than that, give me your one big picture takeaway from game one, something that struck you, something you're going to be watching at in game two, just one issue you're really dying to talk about.
I mean, I think the big thing that I noticed is just Marcus smarts, playmaking in that first half. And when this Boston offense is rolling, working properly, space properly, has floor balance, what all they're able to get and who all is able to kind of really shine. Marcus Martin, particular in a first half versus when those things aren't right. And I think that's kind of what you saw in so much of that third quarter.
And a lot of the Celtics players said it last night, at least just reading the quotes and reading people's stories and stuff like that, that they weren't right. They weren't going right. You look at the fourth quarter, I know Tatum scored. He didn't take any shot attempts.
And so it just kind of, you know, it felt like they tried to in the last three or four minutes kind of force all the stuff that they weren't doing before. Tatum with his turnovers, looking indecisive and credit, obviously, to Miami for their defense and get exactly what I was saying for knowing who they are. But Boston will look back at the film and realize there were a lot of things they could have been doing better, certainly in the third quarter. They were making defensive mistakes and stuff like that.
But really just, you know, it was very much like that, that meme that became popular over the last year, the two people sitting on the bus, one person looking out smiling and the other, just looking like they're filled with horror. And that was what the first half of the second half were for the Celtics. I think that they can do better here. Miami has to shoot themselves in the foot to really keep themselves out of it.
Butler will always keep you in a game. We'll have you with an opportunity to win a game, a series. But Boston can't do certain things wrong and still expect to win these games. We saw this happen last year, by the way, too.
I think exactly a year ago to the day where they gave up, you know, a big quarter, where they were outscored by more than 20 to essentially start the series and found themselves losing. So I don't think it's unfixable, but I do think that Choma Zula has to keep us in the game. I don't think Peyton Prichard to just play and get hunted with, you know, the thing about Peyton Prichard is this is the second time now he's in the rotation. The first time he played after being not in the rotation was like a game five, Philly, let's find a spark.
He's not involved on offense at all. Like there's no point in playing him. If you're not going to try to use his shooting somehow as a screener and have him pop out or flare out, he's just a non-entity on offense who's getting picked that by Jimmy Butler, who's a nasty MF or bully. And again, they're just giving that switch and you can't give him that's what you're going to eat, Peyton Prichard for lunch and you're going to send help and he's they're going to hit open threes because they he'd have apparently become like the freaking warriors from 2019 in the playoffs.
Yeah, I mean, and literally I want to say it was the first play. Prichard was out there. Butler ends up getting him. Butler scores.
He got him later in the game too, where I think, you know, the Celtics realizing, okay, Prichard's not going to have to guard him. Send a second guy out of it. So Butler picks that apart. They score up that.
Lowery got him later on a play and he hits a shot over him. It's just kind of like you said, I kept wondering was there more to that? And I even tweeted, I think at one point last night, this is why I couldn't be a coach because I wouldn't have had Prichard appearing in the first quarter, little on the fourth quarter on my bingo card, someone that has more or less been out of the rotation for the most part, you use them in spots, mostly using them in garbage time when these games get to be blown out. But when he was there early, I figured there was a purpose to it.
Maybe there was and they just got off schedule. But Grant Williams to me playing against a physical team, a guy that I thought did pretty well. I don't, I don't get it. I just I don't, Jones will just like him.
Like, you may have Doka love them. Like the Celtics have a great top seven. They want to play eight and they keep just doing this eighth guy roulette between Sam Houser and Grant Williams and Griffin appeared out of nowhere, one game and never never came back. If you're making me choose an eighth guy, I'm choosing Grant Williams, but that's not again, that's not going to decide.
Maybe it could be a factor, but it's not going to decide. Seriously, let me be clear. I still think Boston is going to win the series. They're just better than Miami.
But the more Miami does this, right, the more you're like, okay, I got to be tired of us, man, because like they're just like, yo, how many times do I have to teach you this lesson, old man? And it's, you know, they, they, they, they looked apart. I was impressed. I was by Bam, Lowry looking like Toronto, Lowry.
Yeah, I don't want any more Bam slander. I don't want to hear anymore. Like, why doesn't this play out in a game? He's got to back it down and do it.
Bam is awesome. How many times do I have to get deep in the playoffs with Bam score in 18, 20, 22, his shot making last night in the third quarter, their shot making is a whole at the beginning of the third quarter to close that gap from double digits down to three before he even drew, said a huge, like contested three Bam had two floaters and like drew a foul at Bam out of bio. He's never going to please the guys, I don't know, never, but not in the near future. He's going to please the people who are like, why isn't he given 30 points to this guy?
And that's just not who he is. You know what he's going to do? Win a lot of goddamn basketball games because he's one of the best defensulators in the NBA. He's a playmaker.
He pushes it up the floor and and there was also a stretch in the second half when when they put love on when the Celtics go small with only one of the bigs, they put love on the big guy because he can't guard wings in space and they put Bam on jail and Brown and you get that cross match sometimes on the other end. And when they got it, he beat Tatum for an and one. He played his little bully ball. Bam is awesome.
And Kyle Lowry, I have the stats in front of me because he looked like dead man walking in the regular season. Regular season, he shot 41% 34% from three. That's up to 45% 38% from three. And he's just got his pick and roll game going.