Going Deeper in the Dark – A Conversation with James (Audio)

What if the place you fear most—the unknown, the “belly,” the darkness—isn’t punishment, but rescue? Right after stepping off stage at the Men’s Retreat, James sits down with Joe to talk through what God is doing beneath the surface. James shares the anxious build-up before teaching, the moment worship “broke it open,” and the relief of realizing God can use our stories—especially the ones we’d rather not revisit—for His glory. We talk about why men crave control and convenience, how we manufacture drama just to feel alive, and why the “unknown” feels like bad news even when it’s where God is doing His deepest work. James unpacks the Jonah story with honesty and imagination, connecting the belly to spiritual formation, surrender, and the difference between conviction and condemnation. God isn’t waiting for you to clean it up first. If you’ve been resisting obedience, numbing out, or stuck in a loop you can’t name, this conversation invites you to notice what’s happening in your soul—and let Jesus meet you there.