Grimm!

You're listening to the Wisps wasatch in wasatch investigative studies wasatch investigative studies a paranormal science show Which apparently is yet another acronym for a super natural hour of wood. Why are you doing this to me man? Which one's yours? Well, it's not hard you're plugged into the first spot.

I'll hit the first mute button. We're good to go. You just sold one Welcome to the wish show. I'm your host castle and we've actually got a special show here tonight The end is not with us Special show D.M.

Gone. She's gonna listen to this and her feelings are gonna get hurt. She's gonna think you guys are celebrating that she's gone We're not we're actually we've replaced again today with a guest and not just any guest Yeah, I probably had to go through before I introduce our guest and introduce everybody out quick So we got Tim this lob whisper what's happening? We've got brandy aka peaches What's up?

And we have got lurch hello and our guest and our special guest is Paul Wheeler He is the owner of Grim Ghost tours, which is a company in Salt Lake. Well, we'll have you explain here in a minute But go ahead and introduce your Paul. Yeah, so I'm just Paul Wheeler on the owner of Grim Ghost tours Basically our Salt Lake City, but we do investigations all over the state And then also out of state too, so we try and let people actually have a good time to experience a paranormal when it's not always easy to do that And I met Paul through some of his private investigations. He actually does well I guess I should say public investigations and Paul actually run some Investigations I've been to South air with Paul.

I've been to a silent 49 with Paul. I've been to the factory of Paul I've been to a lot of places with Paul. So I yeah, so Paul I'm gonna ask you about how did you get into this stuff? Well, honestly I've been kind of interested in the paranormal my entire life So as you could say I was a kid at Scout camp that I was getting in trouble from getting into weird things So nice, but as far as getting into the actual ghost or business so Being interested in the paranormal I decided and looked around and there wasn't anything like that in Utah So it's like okay Let me figure out how this is gonna happen because I want to do this But I can't afford to go to a lot of these places because you call up a building say hey Can we go to a paranormal investigation?

I'm like sure I $1000 like I don't have $1000 and I know a lot of other people that don't either So I decided to create a company to let people experience that and you can share the cost with everybody else too Going to some of these really cool places experience what it's about to do paranormal investigations and have a good time doing it Teach those people kind of the techniques that they need to learn in the beginning to be a good paranormal investigator And then from there if they want to join a group they're a little bit better prepared to do that I know exactly what you're talking about We've looked at a few places and they want a small fortune to get into them seriously It's just it's not the easiest thing to do fact we've actually as Wisps we've set up I'm watching everybody watch the cat get stuck behind the microwave I was wondering what the hell is he got looking for? Nobody pop popcorn But I mean we've as was we've set up some public investigations and I'm gonna be honest with you and I know lurch and Tim Both kind of help me with these it can be really stressful You know getting the price from the venue trying to get people on board You know trying to collect the money and hoping that when the big day comes you've got enough people there to make it happen You know I've told him the bag yeah Yeah, and the other part too is one of my big goals was I was hearing that there was some problems with other Like teams or other businesses that were given the paranormal bad name And that's something I wanted to turn around and show these places that hey the paranormal aren't bad people were here We're gonna respect your place we're gonna have a good time and we're gonna share with you What we've discovered in that way by having good reports seems like you get able to get into more buildings and we try and keep it that way unfortunately There are some other people that it's hard to keep battling and fighting that because frankly there's some idiots in the paranormal and there's some really great people in there No idiots what do you mean? Skalpants is that one that you're talking about? Oh, yes Okay, okay, no skullpants better than we do so so you mentioned some of the places that you do investigations where some other locations You mentioned a 749 fear factory actually castled it Yeah, so honestly I try and find any place we can go that has a lot of activity where there's gonna be interest for people to go You see a lot on our calendar.

We've got fear factory. We have a sound 49 We go out to Fort Douglas. We work with a lot of these places and since we have good report They like to have us there and so besides the ones that you guys know that around here a lot of people go to we also go Clear out of state. We go a lot of hot springs in is another big one gone down to Mount metals massacre area nice So we've gone out to topaz in term and camp But some people may not know what that is it's kind of a concentration camp from World War two Sadly enough they took all the Japanese citizens and rounded them up in a concentration camp and put them there during World War two And a lot of people don't believe that or like oh, this is America that doesn't happen But it did happen there was a lot of paranoia and stuff going on right at the beginning of World War two And yeah, I mean you don't think that kind of thing happens But they did actually rounded up any Japanese American citizens and shipping off to internment camps They weren't like Nazi concentration camps where they were like not fed I mean they took care of them, but they weren't necessarily free to leave or go about their business right and the one that we have here Actually, it sounds like they had a pretty good report the locals and she wasn't terrible But it wasn't great either I mean if you can imagine if you've ever been out there you're in the middle of nowhere in a very cold field over by Topaz mountain It's not very good living conditions And the sad part was the parents were there in these internment camps was some of their son direction their military fighting so but there's A lot of interesting activity in those places by the way for those who can hear that rambling the cats It's crazy crazy.

I think it's lost its mind. Anyway, so speaking of love of hot springs. How was that? How was that big and zack?

You know he was actually a pretty nice guy in person So I know he's got kind of a bad what's the best word for that reputation? It seems like for people thinking he's completely stuck up has a huge fan of Zach You know I haven't been huge fan lately though I've talked a lot of people like Paul who knows that I know Chung is talking about Zach and I think he has kind of this persona on TV where he's kind of too cool for everybody But everybody who knows been alive says he's actually not that bad. He's actually pretty decent guy. Yeah.

Yeah, in fact Here's I'll give you an example. So he had fans that were trying to sneak around the building the entire time We were there instead of being like a jerk to him and tell him to get lost He's like, okay, I've got to deal with situations We actually went over there and started signing autographs for him up one of our investigators Rachel Her daughter Demri was there and he actually took the time out to record Demri doing his little intro on his phone So he actually interacted with her and it was kind of neat how he did that when you get on set when he's doing stuff He's all about business, but I understand that I mean you got to get the show done You got to get everything lined up, but there's a lot of stress involved. So that's pretty cool said he wasn't that bad of a guy So Aaron was really cool as well. So see I'd love to meet these guys I'm hoping one of these years for the panel festival that they can somehow get these guys to come down to be guest speakers I think that would be awesome.

So I'm not too far from Las Vegas. They can make the drive I'm gonna put you a little bit on the spot here So having worked with Zach and I we've talked about a little bit on our show just a normal shows 10 to I don't want to say fabricate But they'll exaggerate that's a better word exactly right there evidence. Did you run across any of that drink on the particular episode? We didn't know I have heard about that and even in the film business myself I understand some reasons why they do and I can maybe explain a little bit about that They don't want to fake it even happens goes to underskites So they don't like to fake stuff.

They want to get stuff every time But you know paranormal best to get it. We have nights where nothing happens now They got a boss producer who will come up to him and he will say you guys will get something tonight or you will be canceled Now if that's your livelihood and that's your job What are you gonna do? Are you gonna go off there and have to find another job or you're gonna fabricate something in order to? Do it.

I mean they probably don't want to do it I don't think they ethically want to do it But sometimes I believe they have to you know But as a I enjoy watching several of the ghost hunting shows and their format it's really good I mean the way that they have things formatted the editing the the videography they do a really good job You know, I'm not really a big fan of like some of the other shows But ghost adventures they they make it interesting and engaging and it's one of the shows that I can really get into Right and if think about this to if you were to have a show And if you actually showed what we really do in paranormal investigating if you're sitting in a room and nobody really talks for the entire time And it's like six hours long. How long are you gonna watch that film? It's kind of funny cuz that's what paranormal investigating is an anyone who's ever been on a paranormal investigation knows that There's a lot of just sitting there in fact I used to make a point on public investigations to say you know I know we're just sitting here but check your audio after cuz you're gonna get some evidence more than likely Yeah, and it's not necessarily waste of time But you know I did this well, we all do this a lot and sometimes it can be boring I mean there's really fun times and there's other times I'm thinking oh my gosh is this night done yet I was I was reviewing audio the other night from what have how many hours audio do you have there much? I don't know anyways, you're you're taking me away from the story.

I was reading audio and some people you know They were all kind of new to investigation is one of the chunga Investigations and I picked up some people standing close by that were whispering and he was saying You know, that's and I'm sure Paul this is probably a huge thing For you because you do these pay ghost orders is trying to keep people entertained on what can normally be Kind of boring on some occasions Yeah, and I try and explain that up front too And this kind of the model that we have we have the bus doors and we kind of get people prepped in on those bus doors We tell them hey, you want to take it to the next level There's a paranormal investigating, but you really need to think about it is investigating this isn't a carnival You're here to investigate and there's nothing cooler than when you have your audio recorder in your recording and you capture your first DVP that's when people get hooked that's when they're like, oh, I know who is in the room I know that no one else sounded like that or there was no kids and we just heard a kid on the recorder and At that point they're hooked a lot of times of people that take it seriously they get hooked and then you are investigating That's the whole point investigating isn't always fun But when you do capture something when you get that little that nugget that you're looking for that's when it becomes very exciting and very fun For people I know that I've mentioned this before in our podcast But the very first investigation I did with the castle and with the sister Dann we went to a silent 49 And I heard an audible EVP where we were sitting in a conference room and there's a young boy Christian Oh, yeah, and you could and we had broken up into two groups But the other group is on the other side of the building and about 20 feet away You can actually hear a little boy say mommy I'm over here and we all kind of comment like was that someone else? And then you know even reviewing like the the tape recorder you can hear it on the tape recorder as well So that's what got me hooked too is just getting that first taste of something. You know, I'm just like this is awesome Let's not quickly complain that I've actually got that Let's play that yeah, it's not the best quality EVP. I mean there's a lot of static and background noise in that But I mean you can hear I'm over here mommy and it's obvious little boys voice But if I remember right like you're saying lurch you guys you and your group heard that audibly I was the one that pointed out I was like did someone just hear that and and I mentioned at first that has to be the other group And someone else agreed they're like yeah, that's someone else and then Deann who said cross-label from me She's like no, I I have seven kids and that was that was definitely a child and there wasn't anyone under 18 Well, I think there's one person that was maybe 19 saying I was actually with the other group and we're like on the other side of That's what I mean we're near where you and this it was definitely close by it was probably felt like it was about 20 or 30 feet away just at the other end of the conference hall the conference room where we were well It's interesting because when you investigate long enough you were gonna hear audible stuff I've heard on both things on a few occasions.

I've heard audible words We were just talking before the podcast about being at a fear factory and hearing audible footsteps and I That really tripped me out why I say and we were in the hillside I was actually a destination around with Paul and we're in the health silo and you actually learned one over to check it out And when you got over to the area because we there were those some chains that were like banging and we were getting to bang on command You know bang two times bang bang and so you walked over there and it seems like the wind or something was clanking around So you got over there boom all activity stopped and then when I walked back then it picked up again, right? I'm getting a good pimples. You can see my arms all the hair stand on it I just think about it That's even you can do stuff It's on command like that So it's easier to debunk it too because if you're telling it to do it and it does it and then it stops and yes get to stop It's a lot easier to debunk a lot of stuff too and know that it's real. It's something that is actually happening now to back up Just a little bit we mentioned, you know when you have these investigations You're trying to keep everybody entertained and you kind of mentioned a story about instant you had last night Do you ever have people come in that kind of ruin investigations?

I know that we've actually kind of check over the individual we call skull pants Yeah, well, we had a little bit there though. I mean it was still an eventful investigation We had a lot of good evidence. Oh, we did but how do you deal with that and does it happen very often for you guys? Luckily doesn't happen very often, but it does happen obviously you get people who don't take it seriously and it's it's a struggle Because people come they're paying customers.

You want everybody to have a good time But unfortunately not everybody has the same idea of a good time So you have to kind of explain to people that say look we're actually serious about this We don't think it's a joke like some people think oh, I just got done watching Ghostbusters I'm gonna go do what they do and I'm gonna try and blast Slimer It's like no in the echo plasma you see on Ghostbusters and the same thing as what it really is so you have to explain to them and luckily Sometimes people see it okay. They are serious about it We need to tone it down a little bit and you know there's times when people are just so bad that sometimes you have to come out Unfortunately, but if that's in the best interest of the building the best interest of everybody else there then unfortunately You have to do that sometimes but our goals to make everybody have the best time they have calls we can and like you said too You know, I think a lot of people go in on the first investigation and they're expecting to see like a full-figure Apparation, you know just appear right in front of their eyes on command and it's not like that It's usually an algae of going fishing You know some days you can go fishing and you're pulling fish out the lake just one after another then you go back another time And you can sit there all day and not get a single bite Yeah, in fact, I had somebody asking that last night that goes along with that They said what's your favorite place to go? I told them what depends on the night. They're like what do you mean?

I said I have to agree with that place has changed one night. It's completely active crazy the next time you go there Maybe nothing happens and that's just kind of the way it is. I've been to fear factory and had phenomenal nights I've been for factory and had Okay nights. I've been to a 749 and had just a absolute blast.

In fact, I had a sign on 49 investigation I think is the one yeah, I run that we had that oddly VP that we just played but there was also the time we were there and There was like a thunderstorm outside. Oh, yeah, I think she's going crazy from all the electricity in there But I was literally getting an EVP probably about every three minutes I mean it was just you know very in quality But I'd say probably one really good EVP about every 30 minutes But I mean you could still get little EVP's here and there You know, but I've had nights are going to asylum in fact the last time with you I went to so I think I got two EVPs that whole night and they were of Midling quality like classy ones. Yeah, but classy That night we ended up like teaching Cami and her crew how to investigate so that is true We didn't really investigate on that one but regardless I mean there's just certain nights that some places that are just red hot and there's other nights where it is just pardon the pun dead Yeah, that's exactly it and you never know it's not like you can plan for it and you try and tell people that too It's like okay. We are here.

We're in a haunted building We're trying to pick the best possible places we can but since we don't fake things That's not what we're about we can't guarantee that you're gonna have something happen every second It a lot of times it does but you can't guarantee that well I think people get a lot of investigation based on what they put into it if they just show up expecting like lurks I think it's just like pop out of closets and say hey, I'm a ghost What's up? They're probably not gonna have that great at a time But if somebody goes in with a mindset to actually look for something find something just be patient Just open up your your body to well not to step up your body But just be receptive to you know anything that you feel in the air That was aliens that the probing Mine I always eventful I love investigating with you Because it's like I don't know what's going on bigger It's like yeah, there's there's nothing over there. I go bug it. Okay, so we go on the public towards the public Oh, so her and I try to like hide from everybody else because as soon as like someone finds out that she can do what she can do It will be just our group has like gone from two of just the two of us to like you know The entire group is following us around we actually have one night at a 749 where people were like asking I think they're trying to talk to Sarah the little girl that live the things out down that hallway They asked if she was gonna show herself to somebody and apparently she said yes So like people are actually like getting all pissed off because the spirit wasn't gonna Apparate for everybody to see her and for just like that's not how it works Like right like if they want you to see them and they're they'll know when you're ready to see them They'll show you but I mean like you can't just go in and expect like we've been saying for the last couple minutes You can't just expect something to happen on demand.

Oh, it's kind of funny because we talk about investing with brandy and Tim and I and brandy and a few others went to one of the homes well Lara from life on the rocks podcast She was having some stuff going on her house and so we took brandy over and we to see what it was We thought there might be some something from family tree that had followed her home based on an incident they had and One thing I enjoy about investing with brandy's we show up and I say so what I got brandy She looks looks me goes figured out which I like because you know It gives me a chance to actually investigate a little bit she did the same thing And by the way if you want details on that particular investigation we may have hijacked their podcast last night So go listen to their paranormal episode It's actually kind of gonna be the wish show with them there I think I think their show is gonna air a week before is this one. Yes, so listen to last time Because we may have taken over it's their show, but yeah castle night pretty much around the whole thing I'm not a fun again People get impatient too because like he gave an example of somebody asked me about Sarah and I said yes She wants to show herself to someone it would just be that one person and they're kind of giving people I want you gonna do it and I'm like when she feels like it They follow that guy around a time clock time doesn't exist for her so I mean you have to be patient I think people don't get that I think they follow that guy around to just like oh she said she's gonna show herself to him So like people just follow him around waiting for it to happen It's like no she said she's gonna show herself to just him so you can follow him all you want is not gonna happen I don't I think what people don't realize though are ghosts are people and some people like certain people and some people don't like certain people and You know people have good moods people have bad moods and you know if lurch shows up at my house I may lock him with my doors pretend I'm not home. He's not I was just gonna say like I think Tim's cool But I think you're a total diva Exactly, you know, it's just how you feel with someone and so that I think kind of plays a little bit into you know How active spirits are if you have somebody there who has sprit doesn't like they may hang you the proverbial spiritual middle finger and go sit in the closet Not play whereas if you have somebody who really catches a ghost interest they may come out and really Flock about her work perform. I mean they're not circus animals But they'll come out and play and manipulate things they might literally give you the finger you wouldn't know You can't see them in fact actually that reminds me when I was at fear factory last with Paul was it George Who doesn't like you?

Yeah, and it's it's because I basically had yellow at one point because he wasn't behaving so yeah, in fact it was funny because we were in by this late as an old lathe and Brandy said that George was there in the area She's like oh George is hanging out over there and we couldn't get any activity we couldn't get any flashlight activity We weren't getting anything at all no K2 and Paul basically said you he doesn't like me I'm gonna leave the room and as soon as Paul stepped out boom we're getting a flashlight activity. We're getting the K2 activity It's interesting because again just George didn't like Paul there George was not gonna do anything Yeah, that's the same thing as I am with Tammy the Guardian wouldn't do anything Well, she was in the room and as soon as she walked out K2's were going crazy Yeah, I think that's why it's so important to educate people to and we do like little one-on-one class in the beginning for that reason Is to let people know kind of what to expect how best to investigate or else they get this ghostbusters mentality or from the ghost hunting shows They think they need to provoke everything in like you said it's so important because as in life as in death And I try and tell us people if you run up and start yelling at somebody right up the bat if you just what's gonna happen They're either gonna punch you or they're gonna run away same thing's gonna happen with the spirit So think of that as in life as in death Josh Hanson We had a incident Well, I think a lot of chunkers listeners and our listener for their for the investigation where Josh was getting the work But some of the type three entities that we had in the basement for Douglas and it it got ugly that night Yeah, that whole building and just had a palpable ugly dark. You know, you do don't yell you want to fight fight me Yes, don't do that. That's bad.

Everyone's just like a collective. No So what's one of the most memorable experiences that you've had in the entire time you've ever been investigating? What's one of the experiences that stands out most? You know what I've had so many but honestly the one that makes me laugh the most is just because how ironic it is So I had kind of a group of people and I was talking to them and behind me on the wall They had some little shelves and things of figurines and the spirit there was rattling that the door handles and some other crazy stuff But I'm talking to people and a lion king figuring flies across the room and hits me in the back of the head Now everybody was watching this happen since my back was it I didn't see it.

I just felt it so they're all looking in awe with their eyes like whoa Did you guys just see what happened here? I am running the back of my head because I got it so But that's I mean you don't always get stuff thrown across the room at you But that did happen that's probably one of my most memorable But honestly I get something memorable happens every time I go on investigation like every VP And I think the neatest thing I try and tell this people to is if you go once Then you probably might get some stuff But if you start going more to a place you build a relationship with those spirits and then that's when it really opens up They get comfortable with yeah Yeah, you build that relationship and then they they really open up and things really start happening and then it's like you make a new friend I know that sounds really weird. Can I purchase friendship? I was no I was thinking what's what's her name at the bottom of the Opera with theater Audrey Oh, Audrey down by the ladies room.

She loves the red velvet. Oh, she loves me. Yeah No, she was a girl from a teenager. Yes, that was a bag of on teenager Charlotte she was the lady of the night.

I think Audrey was she was kind of a hippie from 70s teenager early 20s She's in a you're thinking Stanley hotel. Yeah, yeah, there was so many I don't you know remember most of them I'm just like hey there. They are yeah. Yeah, I was killed in a car accident She's a car accident.

She likes she likes litch and then Charlotte likes castle So she's attracted to bald heads and it's interesting because every time we go to a off-Broadway theater Kind of predict her personality She does because she doesn't like you put out flashlights and ask Audrey what to do or tell her what to do excuse me She won't do it She'll just kind of sit in the corner and hang the middle finger at you But as soon as you start yeah, exactly stop paying attention to it as soon as you start talking the group and kind of ignore her It's like hey, hey, we'll be here flashlight start crazy k-tos and then when she start paying attention to her She kind of salt back to the corner again. She likes to play that game moaning Myrtle right That's kind of fun. We did episode on box 13 with big Buddha and there's a dog Broadway and he was down there He got a little scared because of that So I don't think you expect anything to happen when it did he kind of got startled I actually got Audrey though I was cleaning up for the night I left a couple flashlights down there and as I went to pick him up and I actually had a couple Guests there with me who had paid to come on the hunt went downstairs with me and went to get these flashlights I was able to pick them up They both want to roll on across the countertop they want you to leave huh? Yeah, so that was that was kind of neat for those two guests to see those flashlights go rolling off Yeah, every place is a little bit different and each spirit has a normal personality Just like what people do and that's kind of her little trademarker She will ignore you unless you ignore her and if you ignore her then she tries everything She can her power to get your attention until you get it and then she goes and silks back in the corner Tim has a friend over at the side on 49.

Yes, I do. He likes to follow him around so Who is that that follows you over there? Jeremy Jeremy Jeremy Jeremy Yeah, ever since the first time I was there he follows me around and it's funny because I think he kind of acts like a protector over me for some reason He just follows me around and makes sure I'm safe from the other spirits there Well, that's kind of neat. Yeah, he's a nice individual people get pictures of him They think oh I got a clown I got this or that but they don't understand that as in life as in death He's got feelings and he really doesn't try to protect people.

He's a really good guy I think we're like some of the only people that when we go there actually try to talk to Jeremy I think most people kind of they want to talk to the kids and they want to talk to the guardian Right and I think we actually sat in the hallway the first time we were there And spent most of the night talking to Jeremy. I think that was the first time I investigated with you I hadn't experienced like that at the Benson-Gris mill the first of two nights that we were there where there was a Charles yeah, Charles That was trying to remember his name He followed me around the whole night and I would hold a k2 meter And it would be like two thirds of the way lit up the entire night everywhere I'd go And I swapped out meters with other people and I'd hand mine off to someone else and it would die And the one that I would hold would light back up again two thirds of the way and what I thought was real interesting about that I guess I reminded him of someone that he knew so he followed me to just kind of keep an eye on me But when I'd go to the areas that were really dark and that's how he would hang it off to the side until I would come back up Yeah, if you went down by like the fire pit to the dark area, yeah that k2 would just stop So you left as soon as you left the area and then right back And I swapped out meters with like two or three other people just to make sure it wasn't some sort of odd malfunction But the whole night like two thirds of the way lit up the entire night in fact that pretty investigation second night I don't think you came the second night. I did. Were you there at second?

I think so Maybe it was the next time there was a time you didn't go where he was going you guys have gone two or three times But the first time I was there for both nights, okay It might be the second time where I had the second night brandy was there and she kind of explained who it was And Tim and I went upstairs into the middle we found a picture of Charles And we were trying to figure out which one it was and we got down to two people And we I was holding a k2 meter and I said light up a k2 meter if it's this person And it didn't light up and then I pointed at Charles and it lit up and it's this kind of a middle-aged man I want to say like early 50s with a handlebar mustache kind of gray hair and a beard And I guess I just reminded him of someone that he knew the second night was the night you enjoyed that wonderful Delicious tasting dike. Oh, yeah, and you drank the whole thing didn't even know it Whatever you drank it and came back for more Yeah, Colton who's a what is it a nephew of Dan's yeah? Gary had just gotten a diet Pepsi and we had this constant debate about what's better Pepsi or Coke And so Colton and I were like hey, let's get his bottle of Diet Pepsi and pour it out and buy a bottle of Diet Coke And so like during the the you know intro he's there talking and Sheung is talking and he's like going through a spiel And so Colton and I are like dumping out the bottle of Diet Pepsi and filling it up with you know this cold diet Coke So it has the exact same color the exact same temperature and put it back and he drank it the whole night and Commoned about how delicious and tasting and refreshing it was and then when we told him what it was He's now now he's like oh it was it was pissy and it tasted awful and it's warm and hot and not even Not even the not even the case that's fun to do to somebody except you put in like root beer and then they do know They weren't expecting it. It's a good trick to play on people.

I hate all of you So if there's many investigations, she's been on paul How many Apparitions have you actually physically seen with your eyes if you had many experiences like that? Let's see physically seen with my eyes. I've had actually quite a few I don't know if I could count them, but I probably let's say physically with my eyes it probably be less than 20 honestly a lot of time You're seeing your pictures. You don't see the full body operations with your eyes as often up I said they're pretty rare.

I've only seen handful Yeah, and honestly the ones that I have seen with the eyes the most of those that I have seen were shadow people so oddly enough I used to see those quite often how many apparitions have you seen Brandy? I lost count. I had to laugh because Paul was talking. I've seen her around the table hold up fingers at how many they have and Brandy's like picking her shoes off and Ran out of digits doing long division long location.

Carry the one squared Now remember the very first Investigate or not investigation, but one of the bus tours I did with you and we went to Ted Bundy's place And I took all those photos of that what was left of his home And then I started showing it around the bus and everybody could see that one Operation down there and I took more photos and they're like why are you getting all these photos? I thought it was interesting that there was one guy that was like getting nothing But the more he kind of worked with you and I the more he kind of started believing you can see his attitude changed Just from the start of the tour to the end of the tour and it was awesome to see at the very end of the tour We one of the stops was the MQ and mansion and this guy that was getting nothing the entire tour But was kind of working with us a little bit. This is when we were still new This is the first thing we ever did as far as paranormal went This this guy actually got three operations in one of its photos in one of the windows of the mansion Just kind of kind of cool to kind of see that go from this guy was like I'm not sure anything can happen to actually he started getting evidence as well, which is kind of cool Right, and you were asking earlier kind of why I did that and I wanted to because I've been on ghost tours and around the country You know Boston other places and they were lacking something it was it was cool But if they were lacking something I wanted to bring in that paranormal part of it That's kind of why we have to do meters and stuff on there to bring it people to see that look This isn't just a tour in some way I'm kind of selfish because I want to push history on people a little bit to learn about the history It's kind of buried and that's the way that they will do it because if you say hey Let's go on a history tour how many people's gonna raise their hand and sign up? I'm someone else do but a lot of people won't so it's like let us tell you the history that's been buried that you don't know See in the history books sometimes that gives us a black eye because some people don't want to remember history But I think that's important to remember history so it doesn't happen again And it's kind of funny too because I've noticed it lately like when I if I'm going to a new city I like to kind of find out what there is to do and I see that more and more often like paranormal segue tours at night You know go segue tours like Austin does one some my family just went out to I think Boston and they have one out there as well But it's kind of interesting there they're starting to pop up more and more yeah Yeah, Boston's a really cool place and you ever get a chance to go there.

That's their history from there You're talking 1600s. I mean it's one of the oldest cities in the United States and it's it's so cool so talking full-body operations Tells me more memorable stories dealing with something along those lines my more memorable stories So probably this one's a little more heartfelt than that is a residential area and it's a kind of a dark time of my life Honestly, and I believe that's probably why I was a little more open to that because I was letting those things in and On this particular occasion that was a shadow person that would constantly follow me around always messing with me I'd be sitting on the couch and they'd be off to the side of me you know just doing stuff just weird crazy things waving at you just always trying to mess with you and It kind of made me open my eyes at one point and say hey, okay What's going on here? Why is that maybe kind of estimated a little more and change some things in my life? Honestly because of that because it's like you know I don't necessarily want to be attracting such dark entities around me all the time at the time in my life Then I was so that's probably one of my most memorable as far as trying to change things around and realize that hey There is another world out there and these spirits are there and from those experiences to it's like you know I want to help other people and from that let's learn what we can from other ones It's on the other side that maybe needs some help that they haven't crossed over or that maybe aren't 82 or they need some help explaining things of Kids you see a lot of times when they're just not sure what happened They don't understand and when you can help somebody or even adults to you see it they they're scared sometimes Maybe they took their own life and they're they're worried about what's gonna happen to them So they don't even they put on the blinders I guess is the best way so those things are very memorable to me too and you can actually have your meters going crazy You're talking to somebody build a relationship with them And then you start working with them time after time at a place and then you finally get them prepared to move on And then your meet your meters will be going crazy and you're talking to them You say you're ready to go you help them move on and then just everything false silent and you know that they left and that's I mean It just gives me the chills right now just thinking about it because I mean it's there's nothing cooler than that Knowing that you actually helped somebody that couldn't help themselves You know it's interesting you say that because that's what as you're telling that story kind of We've had experiences like that.

I can't speak for lurch Tim or brandy But I know that once I really started getting involved in this field I mean I've studied it literally for over 30 years But actually getting involved in doing it not nearly that long But as I have gotten involved doing it my whole perspective on life and everything else in general has changed Man, it was been a fairly religious guy But once I started getting involved with this once I had seen some things I kind of had to Take a step back kind of do a life inventory and kind of stepped it up on that Front a little bit because you know it kind of made it a whole lot more real And we've had experiences just like that too that Paul was talking about just in the group here Where we've gone to places and there have been little kids that weren't sure what was going on and there have been people that have been Confused to know what was happening and uncertain and afraid and you know brandy's helped cross people over and it's really awesome to have Those kind of experiences that's actually you're actually helping someone progress You know one thing that will always stick with me is it was the second investigation I did with Paul We were the Union Station up in Ogden and I remember we we did a large We had like the primacy tag group on the stage in that theater room and we did the human pendulum there And then afterwards I kind of wanted to go back off and do their own thing But I think there was Pete's and I and two other people in Paul State on the stage and did kept doing the human pendulum with Pete's in the middle and there was that little boy That Paul actually talked to and you know using responses through the human pendulum Helps that little way find the light and cross over and it was really interesting because we actually had I think like two or three different apps going with the Ghost Raider Classic And I think we had some Ghost Raider pros going as well And it was it was interesting to see that Ghost Raider pros were giving the exact same response as the human pendulum all at the same time And then as soon as that boy crossed over she fell on the stage and all those like everything was my crazy I'm on the Ghost Raider classics. You just see all these blips just also like showed up Like everyone was kind of like running like me next me next It was it was a really neat experience and that was that's part of the reason why I just continued doing what we're doing And it's just getting that having that feeling of knowing that you're helping someone Out and getting them to where they need to be well That's my two favorite things with this whole field in general is you know helping spirit get where it belongs Which is what we did last night We helped a little boy spirit cross over and the other one and we won't touch on this very much tonight But if I've got a family that's kind of in distress because I've got some dark negative entities in our house That's really messing with them I really enjoy going into those homes and I like about work kicking some ass and I was as you mentioned that too I just remembered that I'm not sure if we were able to talk about this but the investigation in uh, it was uh, It was a murder suicide Where a father had, uh, gone in and, uh, shot his two small children His wife and his mother-in-law and then committed suicide And uh, we had the opportunity to uh, to go there in between uh homeowners And uh, got to actually make contact with the mother-in-law The mother-in-law was actually very protective of the uh, the children She kind of forced them to uh, stay behind her and not really come forward and communicate But uh, by the end of the night we got to get everyone crossed over and in fact the husband That did the murder suicide. He ended up showing up towards the uh, the lot of part of the night He was very angry, very upset and it took a little bit of uh, convincing but we got him to cross over as well So he got to face that to the things that he had done And that was an interesting investigation The reason we got involved in that is actually the new owners once that house went back in the market The new owners asked us to come in and see what was there before they moved their own family And wanted to make sure there wasn't a dark entity anything of that nature Uh, but yeah, that was kind of an investigation That's very cool And that's one of the few times that we've actually got somebody who's done something that dark To actually cross because usually when someone's done something that dark They don't want to They don't want anything to do with cross over Don't have to face up and I can understand that because you know, if you're religious at all You know, if you cross over then that's kind of Standing before the judgment bar Yeah, you get some judgment bar stuff going on and That was one of the many investigations that we had scheduled When we started getting the Latin text messages and we weren't sure Yes We thought that was one of the possible locations that was sending us Latin text messages Yeah, and I think we talked about that in the last podcast and we had the Latin text messages I think so I think we also talked about it on life on the rocks I think Paul's looking confused so we're gonna catch Paul up on Latin text messages We had uh Sounds intriguing It was about almost two years ago, I want to say it's been almost two years Yeah, uh, we got just inundated with residential cases I think we were doing sometimes three or four weeks Uh, um, it was crazy We were like double-looking and we were splitting the team up Uh, Cleave Evans we've had on the show His house was in the middle of this and we've had Cleave on as a guest and he's talked about his experiences in his own home Um, but we had all these investigations all coming in all at once and they're Every single one of them was just incredibly dark Um, and about the same time this happened, um, I started getting, well, the group did And then I started getting personally but we get text messages in Latin And they were threats basically to stay away Actual text in, yeah, they were actually coming from Peaches, Facebook account and phone work Really? I just had no recollection of ever sending them at all Well, even during one of them that was sent, Tim was with her and she didn't send it but it came from her It showed her as the sender on the phone So were they using you to send it or were they just taking over your phone, do you believe?

Um, from what my attachment says from what Annie says that I would message them But it wasn't me that was doing the messaging And so that's when I have what I call a loss of time where I do things or say things And I have no recollection after what happened Sure, yeah, that's true And sometimes, yeah, maybe it's just them taking over, you know, my media I mean, the monicsperience are smart You know, they know how to use things that, you know, people think that when they think the monics they think old school And sometimes that's the case and other times it's not they're smart The devil is very intelligent also Probably one of the most intelligent people and he's had a lot of years of practicing Right, so I mean as modern times come, I mean, you learn how to manipulate things So I'm thinking it's, you know, maybe a bit of both And one of the things, and I would agree, it's both, but one of them is that we get responses quickly So it's a kind of thing where it would say something, I'd hurry and hop on Google and translate it Then I would respond back with something and I'd get an answer almost immediately So if it had just been brandy, there's no way she could have Possibly translated that and sent it back that quickly Right, you speak Latin, right? I do not, but he does I do speak, okay, I remember one of you spoke Latin Yeah, lurchard actually once we were getting these lurchard to learn Latin Okay, and it really pisses off some of these negative entities When he starts about in Latin, in fact, we've actually had a few occasions Fort Douglas comes to mind particularly where one of those negative entities Or demonic spirits, whatever you want to call them, pipe threes Decided that lurchard's gonna be his buddy and was following him around all night Yeah, that's his fault Yeah, we were Yeah, that was one of the few opportunities where I've actually had like physical interaction Trunga investigation, we were back in the Navy room And there were probably about six or seven people And then Trunga, he had a spirit box going And he kept asking questions and the response to the spirit box was just I'm a demon, I'm a demon, I'm a demon, just over and over and over And he had asked another question, the same sort of response would come through And at one point, Gary had his recorder set up So I kind of bent forward to say something and his recorder just to be funny And I keep a pocket knife in my back pocket And I remember you were standing behind me to my right And at one point- He's just passed by who? Oh, since- Oh, peaches, I'm sorry, I pointed at peaches I was bending over to say something in Gary's recorder And my pocket knife was pulled out and flew about three feet behind me And I turned around and I was like, what just happened? She's like, yeah, that just happened She knew what was going on, but I was like, did that really just take place?

Did my pocket knife really just get pulled out of my pocket? And that was crazy It is crazy when you get entities that are that strong, they can do that And I've seen that at Family Tree, we were standing there in the main dining area And we're standing there, no one's around the table whatsoever And a salt shaker just flies across the room and the entity is quite upset And I remember too, that's when I started throwing out a few Latin phrases I asked in Latin, are you evil? And through the spirit box, you can hear Eggomelum, which means I am evil Pretty cool stuff Family Tree is one of the darker locations that we've investigated In fact, because of some of these things, we probably do have more dark cases than most teams in the state, we seem to kind of get all the dark cases In fact, it's rare when our cases are not dark, last night was kind of surprised Because it was positive I think that we get a lot of those, because we're one of the very few that will deal with those, because a lot of other groups won't respond to you If you have something dark, they're like, no, we don't handle that kind of stuff And there's a lot of inexperienced I think in that area too, and maybe it's probably good that some of them don't I think some of them don't realize that that's what they're dealing with either So I have to ask Paul, with all the investigations you do and the tours, what are some of the darker things that you guys have run into? Oh, luckily they don't happen too often because I try and do a lot of protection and things So we have had them happen though, Family Tree is one place that happened, and luckily it wasn't somebody that was on our tour, but it was actually an employee there And she got possessed Was it Ashley?

Yeah, we talked about that Yeah, we've had a, they like controlling her, I've actually had some instances, in fact we actually played a some audio from an attack a couple episodes ago where she basically like you said got possessed and essentially I was talking to her She's okay because she was physically crumpling for lack of better words, drops an F-bond slams the table Yeah, she's a big gallon, she vaulted towards me, you know quit f-ing talking to me And then as soon as that happens she collapsed essentially again So she got back in the building now because last day I heard I didn't know if she had been She got, for a while she was really nervous and she's kind of got her courage up again I don't know that she goes in the basement anymore because the last couple times she's gone in there It's really Lucy is who we call that dark entity there Really wallops Ashley every time she goes in the basement She didn't even go on the basement last time we were there with her and she still got walled She still got, yeah when she happened on ours she was actually up in that main dining area And I was walking by her and I noticed that it wasn't right and it's like all right come over by me for a little bit And starting to do is there with me as well and got it out of her but it's I didn't want to go out The other place that's happened is a sign of 49 that particular instance it was they were asking for it Pretty much but bluntly it wasn't that it just happened by chance this person came in we warned them And we tried to warn people not to provoke not to do these certain things this particular person wanted to come in They wanted that to happen they went in the room and They pretty much got exactly what they asked for except not just once we got it out once it came back in Twice they kept wanting to go back in and we had to get them out of the building and Yes, they were asking for it. Were they actually looking for that particular experience or were they? Yeah, yeah, they wanted possessed and they went in there the whole thing that they did the rituals to try and call it into them and I don't know if they really thought it was gonna happen But it did and then after that they kind of got freaked out especially when I jump back in again And I wanted to go back in again We had to get them out and I think they got what they wanted but it wasn't exactly what they thought it was gonna be So, you know, you're really playing with fire when you stuff like that and people don't realize that The severity of what they're doing there. They think it's a fun game type of activity You know, but wegibords they're sold the toy section at stores You know, I went to toys the rest couple months back and it's like there's a pink wegibord marketed for little girls Which is in there right next to all the other board games and just like really that's they don't even know what they're getting into I know you're doing all your tours, but anything that we're involved with involves a public we always do a real big Safety briefing that's one of the things we say is don't invite don't invite stuff to come with you Don't invite stuff to come into you don't challenge something because once you challenge you're essentially open yourself up for that time Not just that but the whole group as a whole I mean if you do that and they do jump into you can hurt other people that are there So you're risking everybody at that venue basically at the same time.

It's kind of negligent on that person's part Yeah, that's why it's so important to take it seriously and some people don't realize how bad things can turn and how fast it can turn bad If you're not doing things you should be and some people think it's a joke until it happens and then they're freaked out And as long as you handle things right, I mean, you're gonna have a good time investigating it's when you Delven things you probably shouldn't be is when things can go bad and nobody likes it when it goes bad Even people are experienced investigators when it goes bad. You're not happy either No, you don't want to deal with that and saying the scary thing is if you got folks who are Dabble and that and they don't know what they're doing Not to sound cocky bad as you say we've dealt with enough of it that it's not really scary for us anymore But it's still not fun. You know, we know how to deal with it, but it's it's not fun I don't know people their expectation is like Hollywood They think it's gonna be like the excesses or insidious or any of those things and then once it happens and they realize that's not What's actually happening or how scary that can actually be you like, oh crap Yeah, I think that's exactly it's a little bit too late. They don't understand that it's it's not what you see on Movies that they glamorize it, but hey you want to do this.

It's gonna be cool. We're gonna have a great time It's like okay. Does someone controlling me. I don't think that's gonna be a good time and it usually never is well And you like you said they glamorize it, you know, Hollywood you see people levitate not the ground and things like that and that can't happen it can does it happen Incredibly rarely I've never seen it.

I've read enough accounts I know some of those things happen, but for the most part the stuff you see on TV and on in the movies is not the reality Yeah, yeah, those are like the worst case scenarios and when it does happen those entities that are strong enough to make that happen I mean you you can know what you're doing when those things go on or else you can get in trouble real fast So to kind of switch gears just a little bit Paul I know you go out and investigate on a regular basis What are your favorite pieces equipment and what would you say your least favorite piece of equipment? You know and I tell this on a lot of our tours and I always bring it up My favorite piece is equipment for one is yourself because you're gonna feel stuff better than any other piece of equipment All the other equipment doesn't just validate it and the other thing I like to tell people is you don't have to have a lot of this expensive equipment You can go buy a flare camera for four thousand dollars and you can see thermal maybe out there But if you go back to the basics the original tools if you get a compass I mean there's your original emf detector you get some dowsing rods I mean you're equipped to handle pretty much anything to talk with something right there get a camera get a Digital recorder those are the things that the equipment that's gonna work the best and those are my favorites It's a simple one I have to laugh as you say that because anyone who's ever investigated with me knows I carry two Pelican cases around with me full of equipment and you use like two things out right as I say I use a k2 meter Recorder on rare occasional perhaps not else but I say there's about three things that I use that all brandy Pelican case though, yeah, it's funny you say that cuz I used to tear you tons of equipment And I still have a pretty good bag that I passed out to everybody on the tours But I learned to it's like after I'm like huffing it around all night with all this equipment And it's like you know what I didn't use a lot because a lot of time I'm helping other people anyway I go out on my own sometimes I'll use it but those key things are usually what you're gonna capture that most with anyway And the other stuff just kind of gives you a little bit of extra edge But honestly camera did your recorders and housing rods and compass and you're good Well the other one you mentioned I is prime my favorites, you know my own physical body or brandy's physical body So if you talk about that all the time whenever we do like the introductions to a public Investigations is that he does mention all the time that your body is gonna be your best piece of equipment because you're In-line you're susceptible to those feelings and you know when when the hair on the back here next stands up You're like okay There's something here with us and there are times where you'll be trying to have communication and you know the room is empty that there's nothing There wanted to communicate with you it's weird and it's hard to define the feeling When there's something there in fact I think last night the investigation last night I came part of the best description I can think of because I walked into the house and brandy immediately told us that she wasn't gonna tell what was going on But I could feel I was facing kind of southwest and to my right and behind me I could feel kind of a pressure almost like when you got a really big fire a little ways away And you can feel kind of that heat on you and almost a pressure It felt like that without the heat and I just I kind of put my arm back like this and I as I say that I'm having my arm Kind of behind me and outstretched and I said there's something that way isn't there and brandy said yeah There is it's down the basement, but it was just feeling that pressure And pressure is not even a good word anyone who's been on investigation Was exactly what I'm talking about and I try and explain it to people and show people when I come on investigations But you can actually feel a difference when there's something there and sometimes it's stronger Sometimes it's weaker see for me It's like I feel I need to be in a certain room in the house like it's like I need to go to this room But I don't know why that's kind of how I determine where spirits are when I'm investigating and I made very well be different for Different people I don't know but I said I've learned to kind of listen to what my body's telling me and I can get a lot of Information off of that alone. I've gone to many places or walk down there's another something in that corner I don't know why I know that but there's something there right and I think the most important thing too and people ask this Well, how come kids can see spirits and I can't and it's what you're saying you need to pay attention Everybody's so distracted these days you've got your cell phones your brain is going a thousand miles an hour wondering what you're gonna do next But nobody stops and just listens and I think that's why you got to train yourself again when you get on investigation mode Just sit to listen and people ask how can we always do these at night? I tell them that's not because the spirits they don't care what time it is The reason why we do it at night is because you lose one of your senses when you lose your sight because it's dark the rest Your senses become more cute and you pay more attention and you get that mode and that's when you're gonna really start noticing things And the more that you do that the more stuff's gonna happen to because you start becoming more tuned to that as well So now we talked about favorite piece of equipment as our piece of equipment that you don't think is worth it wouldn't nickel oh That's a good question honestly I'm a capitalist there's some cell phone apps out there.

They're just absolutely worth it I would probably go cell phone apps first. There's there's something I think may have some value I know the egg box in particular does but yeah, I think there's a lot of cell phone apps It's just making a quick buck. Yeah, yeah, like there's an app someone showed to me and this is probably my worst one And for those that are uneducated on ghost time you could seem like it's authentic But it actually is your camera and it's using what's called augmented rally can you talk today? So what it does is they're they're holding a phone around with the camera looking around and every once in a while this programming language Bring in an image of a spirit so they think whoa I think a spirit on my actual phone, but it's just augmented reality So they're freaking out look at the spirit is my phone.

I'm like, why can't you see their eye? Well the phone's much special this way. I'm like okay. It can work that way.

Yes, but this this is a fake app It's not working unlike notice the same face. It's not because that same goes to following you around Yeah, so that's probably the worst one and here's the other thing I tell people to there is some great apps on cell phones But realize if they're using an old cell phone That's just barely a smartphone and it doesn't have all the sensors on it But that app is still acting like it does because sure your magnate or you can't talk today your cell phone can sense emf Right and if you have a compass app, that's what it's using to determine where north is But if you've got a phone that does not have those sensors in it then it's not gonna work But the apps still sometimes instead of saying oh you don't have that it will still act like it's working and that's like no Wait a minute Let's see if you actually do have that app because you need to check stuff out And I try and teach people to try and debunk stuff first the first thing you see try and see if you can replicate it Because if you're K2 or if you're using a myth detector if it's always going off in the same exact location every time you come by It's probably not a spirit that's standing there. It's probably some power in the walls or there's a hotspot There's something's causing it a lot of times the spirit is not gonna stand there every time you walk by and that's one thing that Tim And I've discussed and I think everybody on our team lurch is really good at it and mark on our team is really good at it is You know if you're getting some kind of activity try to figure it out Yeah, you know make sure it's not wiring in the walls I think one of the last residential investigations we did I was going to the back bedroom I was like man my k2 is just spiking back here and then I look around and then I saw the wireless router and like oh that's it Ah, let's try those in their office upstairs. Yeah, you showed me you were like yeah, it's going crazy all over the show I can hold it up high and it goes away and then in the middle it comes back up and then down low it goes away again I was just like this is crazy I'm getting weird spikes all the room that I start looking take my eyes off the meter and start looking around and there on the desk Is a wireless router with all the computer clean sure enough as you got close to the router It's spike red and as you would pull it away from the router it would go back down to green So definitely you try to debunk things first and that's a good rational explanation That's a good hallmark of a good investigator because everyone in the room.

Thank you I know has basically investigated that one person that everything's paranormal everything's going really quick Yeah, those in fact it's kind of funny and the peaches can contribute to this But we've been investigations where I've in fact off-bread way theater comes to mind specifically where we're seated up in the balcony And I've said Randy is there anybody up here? No, and you know I can hear people like you about going there's something pulling on my hair Touching me There's nothing over there there foolish. Yes psychosomatic. Yeah, and granted they may be really thinking it's happening But again, not everything that happened, you know, sometimes you're closed just reposition themselves I'm just like okay, okay I'm glad to have a better word you the times you'll get that attention or who doesn't matter They're gonna say everything's happening to him that night and you're watching you're like Okay, nothing's happening to you, but I can see your attention for I know what you are We're just gonna like you do your own thing and have fun But I can think of a few of those two you should have come across you should go investigate in a haunted closet by yourself The scrying rooms and you say that but I do send some people in there So your historical tours and we talked about that a little bit earlier.

How often do you run those so right now? We've gone Fridays and Saturdays every weekend all year long in October We run pretty much like Wednesday to Friday sometimes too It just depends on how many people we got what's the website where people can look up and find more information right? So the website is www.grimghosttours.com and that's Grima 2M So I kind of name the company that way Grim because brothers Grimm kind of told stories exactly how they were they didn't sugarcoat it And hence why we decided to use that name for Grim Ghost Tors It's actually the name of all my cats Grim and it's funny too because you know you read some of those old fairy tales and they are scary Yeah, you know, they've yeah, they've kind of modernized them a little bit made them all nice and palatable for the kids But you know you read some of the actual stories that they wrote and you're like these are dark This is almost like Edgar Allan Poe, you know kind of stories right if you go back and look at history I don't know that we should have sugarcoat and honestly because a lot of those stories were lessons To teach exactly not to do that now that we've sugarcoated it We've kind of blended that good versus evil line and in today's world. It's kind of blended together We're back then it was a little easier to tell between the two.

Yeah, I could definitely see that in my line of work Never where else it's not a little cloudier than it used to be. Yeah, so now you do those tours Like you said not cover you do them longer because that's obviously the busy season You do them every Friday and Saturday night. How often do you do your public investigations? So we do those typically about three to four times a month depending sometimes we'll do more depends on the demand and then also the schedule for buildings So we don't like to get too many to where people you know don't go So the way we like to work it on the buildings is that we try and share the cost across everybody Obviously, we have to plan for you know if people don't show up We still got to be able to pay the bills and then we got overhead to some people ask go How come your expense your investigations are more expensive and that's typically the reason they don't understand that I've got a Pay insurance on there.

I've got to pay for my employees from investigators. I'd love to do it free, but you know Yeah, so I don't try and make a lot of profit people ask about that on Grim's like were you doing it to make profit? No, that's just a side job. Just enjoy doing it That's not my bread and butter and back it just barely survives and I like to keep it that way Just because I don't that's not my goal on my goals They have people experiences have a good time and maybe experience something and look at it the world in a different way And I've actually enjoyed and I know Tim and Brandi have actually enjoyed as well coming on a lot of your investigations Because it gets us into some buildings that we wouldn't normally be able to get on his website like once we're looking for investigations I haven't done and periodically for our listeners if there's not a chunk going on because obviously we Since we are part of the radio network if the check hunt's going on We would love everyone come to our check hunt investigations, but I totally lost my train of thought Oh Tim generally if he sees an investigation that he's interested in he'll post an our website We'll try and get folks to come with him on a couple of them when my schedule's permitted and I think the last one we did with them assault there, which was really fun Yeah, we've had some really fun and good investigations that we actually had a great time assault there Tim and I discovered the negative entity in there named a part Which he didn't like it's a crazy location and I never know what I'm gonna find there and it's interesting This is the other part that I really enjoy is seeing what other people get because like I said as in life as in death Some of these are gonna interact with people more that would never interact with me and getting to see that is kind of cool When you were there with us when we were getting the name of one of the employees coming through the Echo box and our husband's name came through the Echo box And just having that information validated by the employee that was there with us at the time like that was just I just remember looking at you You're looking at me and we both just kind of like jobs drop like holy cow did this just happen It's actually really it's really awesome to get stuff like that Yeah, when you get validation of that and that's when you investigate you try not talk too much a little bit So you can't get that validation But then when you're together and you talk to somebody else it had no knowledge of what you just did and they validate and I think he had Like a newspaper or no, this was the one the sister.

Yeah, I found her name on in an article That's right. I'm like I asked him I'm like there's this person here with this name But you store here do you know she still works here? He just looks and he goes yeah, that's my sister. Yeah, I think that's when he mentioned her Husband's name and that's when you and I before do each other like holy cow because it's yeah I just barely got into the echo box like minutes before right and then it seems like right after that Hunt she sent me an email saying hey I heard you guys got some stuff I need to know and then I send her back to you guys so I don't know whatever happened with that But but it's cool how people yeah, it's neat doing that kind of stuff And that's one of my favorite things and I do this to Pete's quite a bit But I love my get information bring her in and I don't tell her what's going on and have her explain to me what she is getting And it's great to get that validation something like that happened to me as well at the Fort Douglas where I was with a Group of I don't know six eight people and we were doing a spirit box session And we were getting the names Michael and David and one of them sounded like a father and one of them sounded like a son We're and through these questionings we kind of figured out okay Maybe that's the dad and David's the son or vice versa I come up exactly and then Brandy another one of our mediums not not you peaches But yeah, I remember that I was the next group in there and she came in and she says I'm getting two spirits in here One of them's Michael one of them's David So how this person come in and validate everything that we had just concluded through our online of questioning have her come in and Verify all that with the exact same names and tell us exactly what we figured out that was really cool Know that we're on the right track.

It's cool when you explain that to people too And it's like matrixing you need to know about this and they're like matrixing you mean with Keanu Reeves You're like no Right, yeah, we're the second and third. You'll be fine. Right? So it's the validation It's key with EBP's a lot of people here different things and it's interesting when you all come together and figure out what they'll say Unless you got a class A and there's no question what EBP says, but when you get some bees or C's then there's some questions It's interesting to validate that with each other.

Yeah, I'm saying it's interesting to go on investigation You'll get tons of classes C class D EBP's, but it's neat when you get a class A your class B And they're not terribly common, but when you get them they're pretty neat It's like it's clear as a bell that they said this right now real quick for our listeners. Can you explain matrixing to them? Yeah, sure so matrixing the way I explained it on the tours is when you look at clouds people see different things in clouds And matrixing is when your brain is trying to actually make sense of chaos is a simplest way to explain that So when people look at a cloud some people see a dragon some people see a little minion You know It just depends on what they're looking like and the EBP same thing when you're listening to it some people may hear one thing another person may hear another thing Now it doesn't necessarily mean one person or the other is wrong It just means that hey, maybe we need to investigate this a little further and see what it's actually saying because your brain does try and make sense of chaos And it can lead you to some false positives Well, I say I'm the interesting thing about that So I know that we've all had EBP's I'm like listen to this I think it says this and you play and I was like no it says this and you listen you're like oh, yeah I'm an idiot you're right and I totally had that wrong I can think of a few examples to where I've been listening to audio playback And especially even with the spirit box sessions where someone will be like oh I just heard this and you're listening to it on playback And it's like no that that doesn't even sound remotely to what you think you heard and I've actually have the opposite happen to where you hear in spirit box And I'll play back you're like that was crystal clear. How did we miss that?

Yeah, we had a lot of the salt air Yeah, in fact, we sit back to the salt air echo box There's a lot of stuff that we miss there was there's probably more stuff that actually came through than what we actually thought we heard Yeah, cuz I heard a lot of it on the playback when I was reviewing audio going Why don't we pick up on that when we pick up on that right? That's why I was gonna say and the stuff that we're missing a stuff that just further validated what we were already getting it was just More clearly laid out and we just miss the and I'm starting to I think I'm starting to favor the the echo box over the spirit box because you don't have that white Noise it's a lot clearer. It's a lot clearer. Yeah, it's a lot more easier to listen to it's easier on the ears Well, I think we're about out of time So again WWW.Grim goes towards calm it's grim with two M's make sure you follow the the Facebook page as well Yeah, we posted it on Facebook or join our email list will send stuff out there too We have special discounts as well and if you want to do private Huts some people want to do their own private hunt we do that on the bus or paranormal investigations, too And we've actually used Grim goes towards for when we did our wisps fear factory investigation We actually had Paul set that up and range it and we paid through Paul and Like Paul said it works for him because he can cover the cost to go investigate and work for us cuz we just Bob go ahead and cough on the ball, right?

Make sure you watch the episode of ghost adventures where they go to Idaho hot springs You'll see Paul on that before we call it night that we should probably plug the other shows and talk about one thing We didn't talk about and I'm kind of excited for this I know it's a couple months out. It's not quite the holiday seasons yet, but I know every Christmas He does his Christmas stores and I've missed the towards the Christmas Last two years, but I'm definitely gonna go on one this year I'm like I'm super stoked to go on with the Christmas stores Alright, tell me goes back to the grim stuff because we talked about Frampus and a lot of the legends that they still celebrate in Europe But they don't have an America we kind of lost that because of the sugar coating and crampus. It's pretty interesting individual You got Santa Claus, but they kind of took out crampus in America He's the one for the bad boys and girls something interesting looking my father's Swiss And he's mentioned that a few times about how there's a dark Santa that if you're if you miss be hey Then he'll show up and you know has his bag of coal and he'll put you in the bag and carry away and they can't Go back to like the grim fairy tales where they were teaching kids if you act bad bad things are gonna happen to you Right like here. It's like oh you can get a lump of coal, but there you're bad.

You're gonna go to hell with crop Right a little more incentive for the head that movie came out last year crop was came out. Yeah, I remember last year It was really entertaining it was it was bad movie It was more anything it was like it was like almost like gremlins level where yeah, right supposed to be scary But it turned out to be like kind of funny it was it's more entertaining I have not watched that for a few reasons Brandi never watched the scream movies because she sees all the actual scary stuff. It's involved with those We got a scary movies all the time. No, it's things with clowns in them.

Oh, that's right Oh, yeah, I did I did call her after it was over and tell her that there was a giant Jack in the box with a really creepy clown face Yeah, you can't watch that movie So real quick before we call it a night Tim you want to talk about the paranormal stuff. Well, let's talk about the paranormal festival By the way, Graham ghost tours will be the paranormal festivals right. Yeah. Yeah, there's well.

He is a another sponsor Uh-huh. Yeah, so I have it here in a second. I know it's October 1st from noon to 9 p.m And tickets are $10 if you pre purchase them in advance. They're 15 at the door children 12 and under are free and I know that there's discounts.

I don't think you need to discount. It's only $10 Um, I know we'll be there. We'll be recording podcast I'm like adjusting sound like a madman. Um, I know on our last episode we announced that Elizabeth Saint was gonna be there Right, but they actually she ended up Yeah, she had a cancel, but Bill Hartley who's also from goes to ship a town.

He's gonna be a guest there He's gonna be taking her place instead. He was nice enough to step in and say, you know, I'll go to it The address here. I can't find I know it's it's at a conference center. That's near the South I'm looking there.

We'll be interviewing some people. Um, and so come say hi to us and we may interview you if you've been on investigation or two of us One of the things I'm looking forward to there this year that didn't have last year was the zombie in UFO panel and for those who came last year Which is probably not a view based on the attendance I think there's like three tickets sold in two of those ticket holders are sitting in this room right now They're going for free anyways. This is not the same event as the past year This is different organizers. It's been organized much better than it has in the past.

And so this it's been renamed No, first one was bad. It just wasn't very well because you met me advertised. That's true But they also had the name Paragon which I think a lot of people had no idea what the hell of Paragon is They're expecting a lot of a quadriplegic athletes or something to be there hanging out or parry lighting Yes, or super selling super knoll's down the aisle. So I actually got the address here now It's at the Caron Gell Miller Conference Center on 97 50 South 300 West on number 150 E in Sandy, Utah I had to adjust your microphone.

That's what I do. I never make it easy for you If I'm in it easy for you then it would just be easy for you. I'm gonna say easy for you a couple more times, too Okay, easy for you. They've renamed it the paranormal festival Thanks for your truly because when they're organizing I said let's not call it Paragon because that's a terrible idea If you call it paranormal festival people actually know what it is and come to it So it should be pretty good this year.

I've seen some of their plans and what they've got going on. It's As far as I know they do have one more fundraiser investigation coming up on September 10th at the Leslie Family Tree restaurant Tickets for that will be $40 if you plan on just investigating if you want dinner as well It's $50 and if you go to that say hi Lucy for me But we have got some other investigations planned that night and the next night their private investigations Which we'll talk about on that podcast because we'll be podcasting the 11th So um so just so you know if we have anything on September 10th, I will not be going I'm we do I can't we do it's cleaves Kevin. I wish I said I could go I'm walking in but I can't go I have sports events to go to you. So you're gonna be supporting That's when it's working You tell sorry, I'm pretty sure it's in it.

I'm gonna open the day because I would like to have you at least yeah It's uh should be at the BYU guitar game. Okay, so listen listen to the other podcasts listen to radio running I listen to bacon sale level 22 listen to us on life on the rocks, please Greg's guided music Damn this is like the first step that I keep and my constantly adjusting your sound well, you know I'm getting excited now. This is the part of the show that no one listens to anyways Yeah, it's true So it's not gonna matter if I keep going up and down like what else have we missed so run cast or we prepared yet At athlete life on the rocks, but I think you mentioned bacon sale listen to us on life on the rocks, please Yeah, go back and listen to last week's life on the rock episode because we That's not a question that's the name of the show. Yeah, yeah on the rocks, please listen to all the Wisps show again Yeah, we went and we rated their studio We took it over but it's a whole different content than this one so it's it's an episode in its own right So this is how we plug stuff on their show we said listen to the wisp show and then there's also the wisp show Followed by the wisp show and then the wisp show we really like wish show you should listen to the wisp show anyway Thank you Paul for coming as a guest.

Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, we appreciate having you and that's it Have fun storm in the castle. Nice.

Oh boy. Hurts You're listening to the Wisps was that you investigative studies for paranormal science They're grown as adults that like to sit in the dark and talk to each other But they all love their moms so that should account for something