H.H. Holmes

In the dead of night as people sleep, that is when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three dark things take power, we like to call it the supernatural hour. Hey welcome to the supernatural hour podcast, this is your host Raven. This is Chad.

It's Moon. I'm Whiskey. And I'm. So Doc couldn't be here tonight and Drake, it says birthday and so he got kidnapped to go do fun birthday stuff.

It was a surprise for him, right? It's a surprise birthday party. It's a surprise. So it was a surprise for us.

Yes it was. For the business, which is brought to you by Castle Photo Art, go to Castle for all your photo needs, we are still trying to line up next investigation. We haven't heard back from the venue that we have been in contact with and I will follow up on that and we'll try to get something up quickly on that. Yeah, so it's them, not us.

Yeah it's been that way kind of all year hasn't it? It has been that way that she's going to believe. So that's about it. We'll do that.

We just want to give a shout out to all of our patrons and say thank you to everyone that supports us. You know it can be kind of tough with the way the economy is right now but we really do appreciate your support and your help. So thank you very much. But if you know anyone that enjoys listening to our podcast or someone who might enjoy listening to our podcast, we are going to be doing a big Patreon push.

We're going to have some new things for you, like a special little package for anyone who signs up a Patreon on your recommendation. So we'll start. We haven't put that package together yet, but it'll be something cool. We'll start scouting around for the people you're going to get to recruit.

Recruit, yeah. Alright, hey thanks. Okay, but we have a ton of residential to talk about and petite. Just let's start with petite.

Let's start with petite. Let me tell you, I have never seen so many people run out of a building scared. What happened that night? You know, my group was actually fairly tame.

You know, I had split up the group and kind of my goal, not goal, but what I thought I thought I would do was just kind of, you know, I had the three groups and I was just going to kind of, you know, group pop to make sure everyone was happy. My son and his friends ended coming. And so I took them so that your guys' groups wouldn't be humongous. It was a pretty active petite night.

Yeah, it was for sure. The last time we went, you know, people were complaining, I know Emmett was complaining that it was a little slow. Hey, wait a minute, Drake's here. Hello.

Did you finish your birthday stuff? We did. Awesome. Was it fun?

Yes. Okay. So we were just talking about petite night. It was a crazy night.

We had a ton of people just kind of run out scared. Yeah, my group. We had a lot of activity. We had some really good flashlight activity.

We had some knocks that we couldn't explain. We had people seeing people that weren't there. You know, I mean, I mean, obviously they were there because they were seeing them, but they weren't part of our group. How about, you know, Whiskey?

How about you guys? Yeah, I mean, we had a pretty good time. We had a new apps trainee in my group following us around. So that was pretty cool.

But yeah, we went around a lot of stories. And I think one of the things that was nice is, you know, we had like one of the people in my group had like a construction background. So it was nice to see somebody appreciate my nonsense. And I'm like, well, there's pipes.

As we all know, I like to stare around the roofs and things and say, well, I ran up and on the stairs at one point. I got my steps in trying to figure out that basement light. So I did get a little sweaty once Raven joined my group, running up to see if we could figure out how to trigger that stupid light in the basement to go on or off. I thought I was onto something and I wasn't.

I just did a bunch of stairs for nothing. Well, and the interesting thing is Dave, kind of our guide while we're there and guide is a, he just lets us do our thing, but he unlocks the door for us. And he says that that basement light only comes on when we're there. And there's not a Swiss.

It's not like there's a switch that we lean on that no one else leans on. He has actually put tape over the sensor. So it won't come on. Yeah, it's got duct tape over the sensor.

And he says it's only our group that it does that too. And there's two other groups that go there. He says it doesn't do it for the other groups only ours. It's not because I'm really pale either.

I feel like so, you know, it's just unique. We also were testing. You've heard me talk about it and I'll get into a little more in the text segment, follow up on that, but the magnetic polarity bell got its first little test there. So that was fun.

A lot of cat ball stuff. Some people got lightheaded and sick and went back into kind of the type three area that was down the down. Yes, out in the underneath. Yeah, where it's all dirt.

So you know, it can trigger people's allergies back there. Not a lot of air flow, lot of dirt and dust in the sky, but we're not sky, but in the air. There is no sky underground. But yeah, it was interesting because you could see some people having their first paranormal experiences.

One person in the group was like, I've always felt weird about this place. I take my kids here for dance lessons and it just felt weird. I'm like, Hey, you might be onto something. We heard the blacksmiths and film make a little ding sound that drew us to that room.

We kept hearing somebody else in our group following us around. Yes. They would just hang out in the hallway and it was driving me nuts. Now, wasn't I with your group at this point?

Yeah. Yeah. I kept having to leave and go check to see who's walking the hallways. Yes.

And you were the only person that saw it either. There was someone else that was saying it too. Yeah. And after I was after I checked a couple of times, they finally were just like, what is this weird guy keep going looking for?

And they stand there and they watch this thing just walk by the door and I'm like, see, what is that? And that's about the same time that we kept getting some weird orbs that we couldn't explain. Yep. So visible orbs to not even just in the like we saw one go over to a K2 meter.

That was right next to Raven, visibly move over there. I think the dress room or was this in the, uh, all the heart, like where the stuff forces and stuff. The stuff to our show. Blacksmith area, just outside the blacksmith area for the orb thing.

And the funniest part of the night is when we thought we were here in the shave and a haircut, like the knocks, because I heard some knocks and I knocked back and then it knocks back with a, and so I did it. And everybody's like, oh, that was crazy. And so then I do the, you know, and knocks back. And so we were like, right now the other night, people are all free.

They're like, that was the coolest thing ever. The first thing when we get upstairs to moons crew, we're like, Hey, were you guys just in that room above us? Yeah. Were you talking and the disappointment in both of our faces when we realized we were each other's ghost at the end of night.

We're like, boo. So it was like, I mean multiple times. Well, what was crazy too, is those radiators that emit the heat, you know, it was just clanking so badly. And people in my groups, they started running out the door, like they got real scared of me and Batman on the team.

We ran toward it and they're like, Oh, crazy. Like, yeah, a little bit, but that's all right. So we went over there and we're trying to figure out and then we're hearing knocking and then the radiators like just making these clanking noises. And at first second, you know, before your brain processes, you just think something exciting is happening.

And then you realize, no, but it wasn't anything. And that disappointment. I will say, there's the disappointment when you're like, Oh, that's the radiator. I'll say those radiators.

So I swear you have given intelligent response. I'm like, the upstairs immediately, I was like, Hey, you know, we got all these rooms upstairs. We had pretty limited time in that portion of the rotation. It's like, if you're in any of these rooms, make it sound immediately.

One of the radiators in the far room just goes cling and then doesn't do it again. Yeah. I mean, that happened to us a lot. It was clinking when we'd asked them to and so I'm like, uh, is that?

But I don't know if the heat turned on or not, but Batman thought it was the radiator. So it's definitely the radiator. It's just like weird how it answers kind of like the timing of the radiator can be a little suspicious. So I just loud.

I didn't think it was interesting. There were a bunch of people that left that were scared, but there was one lady and one or two kids that were with her at the presentation when we started. She's like, is it okay if we leave, if we get scared, I'm like, of course, you know, but you're not going to get scared. And she was there at the end of the night.

So she was not one of the ones that left. So a little shout out to her for being brave. Yeah. And that was her.

I think her nephews. And that was the first time they had done paranormal investigations. No, they had a great time. They were really excited about it.

Had a great time. They go and do it with the thought that you might be too scared. Usually you do better than the people that are like, nothing's ever going to scare me because they tend to be a little more rational because they're every response like, oh, it's not that bad. Oh, it's just not that bad.

But the person that had no preparation all of a sudden something knocks are like, I was not ready for this. I'm out. Yeah. I think I had a lot to do with your attitude.

So there was an investigation that the residential that kind of came through you. Do you want to start that one off? Yeah. We were going, we went to this house and there was paranormal activity according to the family happening to some of the boys in the house teenage boys.

There was scratching in a laundry room. There was lights being turned off during showers. I learned that somebody's door got shaken in the middle of the night pretty violently. Not once.

I thought once, but I talked to him later. It happened three times. Oh, well. Yeah.

Scary. And so then he also told me this is a 17 year old. He was telling me that he would hear his back door open at night, which I didn't know about. And so he got up.

He said it was pretty funny. He's like, yeah, I was going to go there to beat somebody up or get beaten up. He didn't know which. So he goes out there because his brother sometimes don't lock the door and nobody was there.

So that freaked him out a bit. And so we wanted to go help the family out. We got there and headed to the laundry room. Got some activity, like K2 activity.

Raven, I think you got scratched there. Do you want to talk about that? Yeah. So I don't get scratched very often, like hardly ever.

And I got scratched, but it was way up kind of in my hairline. So you know, I didn't have anyone take a picture of it because you would have been in this. Yeah, we could see it. But yeah, I've never been scratched before.

Oh, so that was the first time. Yeah, absolutely. And what I find interesting about that investigation is usually when we go into a home and we were getting quite a bit of activity. Yeah, we had determined at one point that there was a female spirit and the homeowner, the wife did not want us to contact that female spirit, which I don't know.

I don't want to say I was taken aback, but it was very unusual because usually, you know, they want to talk to the person. They want to find out what's going on. And this type one, you know, according to our yes, no answers and everything, you know, was a protector spirit, but she did not want us to talk to that spirit at all. Yeah, that was strange.

We ended up having some information come through. We had a spirit box going and there was some creepy, diabolical laughter in there, which was unsettling. Right. And there was mimicking.

I was listening to the audio back and it was mimicking some of us. So Batman was there and it's funny to say Batman, but Batman was there and he would say something and it would perfectly mimic it. Same tone, same pitches, same everything was pretty crazy. You would hear it right after he said it right through the spirit box.

It's like, wow, there's definitely something to that. So you called me out from the laundry room to come and salt the kitchen because we found 3D type threes in that house. I think so. At least two, maybe three.

There was three for sure. And we wanted to isolate them. Mm-hmm. And so you did.

And then she was not happy. Again, the homeowner, she was not happy that we were going to, she wanted them to stay. Can I say what she said? Yes.

She said she felt like she was supposed to do their work, which also took us aback because we've, I have been on the team for three years, three and a half years and nobody has ever said anything like that. I was like, what? You want them here? Yeah.

And I don't know. I don't feel like she fully understood what it was that she was dealing with. I mean, you might have other things going on mentally. Yes.

There could be some mental health issues going on there. And so we're trying to be as tactful as we can. We actually called Newman because he is just a miracle worker with talking people through things and hitting some aspects that we may miss as far as things that they're going through. And without disclosing too much, he actually pegged some issues.

He talked to us personally about how he didn't say to her, but he was walking her through some affirmations. And the interesting thing is when he does that, the clients really like that because they're really feeling heard and they're feeling like their opinions are valued and everything that they've been going through. He was going through these things of affirmation and he got to the part where he said, you know, you've got to forgive yourself, which is a very true thing. And she stood up and she was like, I'm out and she left.

And I'm sitting there going, I don't know what to do now. My jaw may have hit the floor about five times that night. It was very shocking. So we were able to get those type threes out.

I'm not sure where that client is as far as everything going on in her home. We did tell her that the female that was there that she didn't want us to talk to, but wanted to remain there is still there. It was a type one. It was a protector spirit.

But the interesting thing, I had to go home because I had a ton of homework, but everybody else, you guys went and got sushi, right? We got some Chinese food. Okay. And everybody, including me, who did not go eat, all came down with a really bad stomach ache that night.

It happened before we left that house and I don't know what was being thrown out there, but I just just felt like we were being pushed out the door when nobody was there. It was just really different and my knot was just in a like rock pit of us. It was just really strange. So I didn't even feel like eating, but we were going to go eat.

So I did. And I did feel a little bit better after eating, but it just was very different. And then Newman usually never texts me afterwards because, you know, he does this thing. We're done.

We're clear. Everything's good. He texted me not only as I was driving home to make sure we were okay, but he texted me the next day to say you guys, he has all okay, which is very unusual. So that was a dark one.

Yeah. The type three there, Newman claimed was a shape shifter, which I think is higher on the scale of type threes. Just she's not a little know me. That's not scary.

It was a pretty intense one. Yeah, a little more. A little more. Old for behind him.

Yeah. And then he was like, uh, investigation in Florida. We want to hear about that one. Yeah, it was, um, my first one of me like taking charge and doing it because, you know, I only get to go with you guys when I visit.

So, uh, it was interesting, but it was a small little salon that my, I had gotten my hair done like we could do before I did that. So this is probably like a month ago. And my friend is also interested in like paranormal stuff. So I was talking with her and she goes, Oh my gosh, you have to talk to my coworker.

And her coworker was telling me that she had come around the corner from the back room to the main room one night after closing. And there was like this old woman just standing there smiling at her. So I was like, okay, well, that would be interesting. And my friend was saying how she went to, like she was sitting in the back room and she saw the shadow go from the front to the back and into the room, like the closet with the color in it.

And there was like rummaging around it. So I was like, okay, so we were able to get permission to stay after closing and get to investigate. And so a couple of things, but I set up the cat ball, which is one of my favorite things. I really like the flashlight.

So one day I'd like to get those because that was really fun. We did in Virginia city, but so I use my cat balls and didn't really get anything from that. And I use the, what is it, the K2 meter, I think? I went a little orange, late and it has the dial.

Oh, the ghost meter? Yes, the ghost meter. Thank you. I am half alive right now because it's 930 and I'm teacher school night.

So I had those things together and I just see if anything and I kind of let it be there for a while. If we walked out, just kind of see if there's anything and just around the corner is a tiny place, which is why I felt comfortable doing it. We went to the back room. So I use my SLS that I got for Christmas from my mom.

And so my first time I was like, like I said, it's such a cool experience when you do get interactions with it. And we saw a figure in this chair in the break room area and it looked like a small little stick figures and you like a child. We couldn't get it to like, you know, hey, wave if you can, all that. But when we had, because I didn't have a spirit box with me, so we used the phone app, which, you know, I don't 100% think it does a whole lot.

But when we asked for like a name and had been really quiet for all, it gave a name. So that was pretty crazy. And then we went back into the other room and we're kind of sitting at the little, the chairs that have the, the dryers on top. And I was like, man, this corner feels like heavy.

Like when I sit here, I feel gross. And she's like, yeah, when I sit there too. And that's also like the corner where the lady was seen. So I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense.

So we decided to do a thing. We're like, okay, where do we start feeling that feeling? And it's literally like when you cross over into the room just before the chairs, you feel it and it gets worse as you go into the corner where I was sitting. And so we were doing that kind of feeling and my friend was in the other room and we're like, Hey, you come in here and you tell me where you start feeling that feeling.

So we all figured out where we thought and she came in and she said the exact same place. It was this very specific spot that you felt just like a weight on you. And it was hard to like breathe. So it was really strange.

Other than that, like we listened to, you know, see if we got any EVPs and nothing. Now I didn't listen to the very last little thing that we did. I still need to do that. We're like, okay, you know what?

This is the other night. Any last thing you have to say, you know, because it seemed like it was very much just moving around and saying, I'm here, but not really. I'm just doing, you know, I don't really want to bother because right actually right before that I forgot with the cat ball. We are always also in this one other spot across the room by the shampubles where I had the cat ball and stuff.

And I was talking to my friend here and I put the, the, I was kind of like standing in that area and I had the, the ghost meter in my hand and I put it down and I said, oh, the cat ball went off and I thought maybe I hit it or was something near it. And so I kind of smacked it around it to see it went off again. I was like, okay, that was just me. So then my cross room and one of the girls was like, did you know that that thing was lit up before you walked over there?

Cause I was kind of talking when I did it and I had turned and I was like, oh, weird. I'm like, let me go back and smack it some more. So I smacked it all over the place. I hit it and it's like a cement kind of thing.

So it wasn't like a vibration much possibly because it was like super blocky and secure on this wall. And we all smacked around it and we could not get it to go off again. So that was interesting, but it just seemed like I was a little bit here. But there's nothing much, but the very final thing you were sitting at the shampoo bowl chairs, me and other friend talking to people across the way at the dryer seats.

And I felt this vibration on the back seat that leans back. And I was just talking. So I thought I'd hit my arm on the armrests that made it do that. So I was making sure to be aware.

And then I like felt it again. So I said, in my head, this is all my head. I didn't announce this. And I was like, let me specifically start smacking and then let me not smack it.

And then it vibrated like real hard, all of a sudden like shook and I mean, the girl I was sitting next to me, look each other exact same time and jumped up and went across the room. I have never felt anything before. So I was like, that was a little unnerving for me. And I said, why did you get up?

And she goes, my chair moved and I was like, mine too. So that was like, it was really spooky. It was like the very final and night before we're going to leave and that the touch it will the back chair vibrating. Because then we tried to see if we're vibrant and it's an independent thing.

Like you literally have to shake that section of chair with your hands to make it move. So driving home is to say my 45 minute drive home was very spooky at night. And I saw everything in my review mirror. And so I called and it talked to him about it to get calm down a little bit myself.

But OK, but I'm done. All right, last but not least, whiskey, you have an investigation to talk about. And then we can talk about our main topic. Do I have a pizza party?

There was pizza. We went to a pizza party and a paranormal investigation broke out. I think it's not a friend who was having a lot of kind of really bad things happening at their house. And one common theme was like this dog to the point of like during an act of domestic violence, like whilst being attacked, just the dog blocking eyes and like staring.

And it's a stuffed dog. OK, I was just going to say it's a stuffed dog. It's not a real life dog. Well, kind of real dog.

But here's where that's kind of weird is this stuffed dog was gifted to them while the real dog was still alive and attempt to get them to put down this real dog much sooner than it needed to be put down. Because their spouse was just sick of it. The dog only had three legs and was getting older, but really just needed help like in the morning, put in its wheelchair on. And it's about it.

Not not anything too crazy. You know, stairs are a little hard, but yeah, definitely not any like any real real issues. So it was it was kind of created in this idea to like take life away from something and replace life, which is like not a great idea to create things to do. You know, the person is safe now from their from their, you know, perpetrator and the dog is though with them.

Their actual dog has since passed away. Now they attempted to talk to their dog through a spirit box and some phone apps and things started happening, including them finding random bits of broken glass next to the dog. I advise them, call back to the discord where you probably remember me saying like, Hey, did you think we could actually like talk talk to animals through a spirit box? Or wouldn't it be more like, you know, you feel him crawl up to the foot of your bed at the end of the night type B?

And we all agreed like, yeah, they're little tip taps, you know, you kind of feel them like that. But they're not going to be like, Hello, I'm formerly your dog. Let me answer some yes or no questions for you. How about a wag or tail?

That's true. If you see a tail wagging, a paranormal tail, I have you a new one. I guess we are telling her normal tales on the podcast. But yeah, so they suddenly like after talking with me, you know, we kind of staged their house and calm them down a little bit.

They felt like this was really just getting some control in their life and they need to get rid of it. And so they felt very compelled to send it to the Zach Vagan's Museum in Vegas. You don't know why they were dead set on it. They sent it to me to check out first to see if we get some evidence.

I still have evidence review from that. I'm behind on my paranormal stuff. But we decided, you know, we investigated the team. We haven't really had a cursed object investigation yet that I've been a part of.

So I'm like, what a fun little thing. Just mail me cursed objects in my house. And I will look at them. So we did that and their behavior.

Initially, they told me everything about us was better. Their their current dog was behaving a lot better. Their kid was actually going to sleep on time. Like they felt a weight lift out their shoulders, which is great.

But the very weird part is, is their communication with me changed drastically. They became almost obsessed with like, where is it? What's it doing? Hey, when it gets there, you should just take it out of the box.

Take it out of the box when it gets there. Just take it out of like, they were very pushy with me about it. Keep in mind, they also put treats in the box for this dog, which is an offering, in my opinion. And I was like, Hey, I don't even know if I'm going to put it in my house till the team gets here.

I'll decide when it gets here. And I did, I put it in the box and they're like, what's going to get upset in the box? I'm like, good. It'll be real exciting when we let it out.

If it wants to get upset, the first night that it was actually here, both of the and she mentioned sharp objects broken glass and everything. Both of my animals, two of my animals, I have more than two, had a very close running with their eye in a sharp object. Sunny started sniffing and some scissors like shifted off of a TV tray, almost sitting in the eye. And I was working on a 3D print with just kind of like a little dental pick type things, easiest thing to describe it.

And Sam's came jumping up in a direction she never really jumps up on and almost caught it in the face. And I was like, all right, twice in a day after this comes in my house, we're going to salt it for extra effect. I sent a picture to Raven. I didn't put that much salt down.

If you notice how much it looked like there was in the picture, but a reasonable amount of salt. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't crazy. I put a bunch of Arm and Hammer carpet cleaner around just to really make it look like. But it's not nice afterwards, but here we took it out.

It really seemed like it just wanted to go to the Zach Bagan's museum. Like it's a Hall of Fame. I don't think it was that powerful of an entity. It was it was there.

It was something. Oh, yeah. But I think it took advantage of somebody who was buying in a lot, giving it a lot of power over over them with the emotions and the attachment. They had an attachment to the object much like this entity decided to attach the object because the emotional investment in it.

And it also strangely brought a type two that just wanted to be there, which is rude. That they said they wanted to be there. So yeah, it was good. We got to knock over.

We got some good, some good evidence, but ultimately it was pretty hyped, but very uneventful. Yeah. And we got we kept seeing shadows down the hall, movement down the hall. I got really kind of sick, which I don't get sick and investigations often, although I have the last three.

Maybe maybe it's something with me. I don't know. But I got really sick to my stomach. I actually had to go out and sit in another room for a few minutes.

But I mean, that passed pretty quickly. We got some cat balls to turn on. We actually got the entity to tip the stuff dog over. We got a lot of relevant words out of the, out of the Oculus.

Can you think of anything else as far as activity that we got? I also got like, I feel like my throat was being choked. Yes. And I got like a really bad headache.

And then when I said that, whiskey's like, well, her has, I don't know if we can say that. Is that okay if we say that or not? Yeah. I mean, there's files that time did attempt to straighten.

Yeah. So that was really interesting. I was like, oh, I feel like there's something around my neck. And then he's like, yeah, they got strangled.

So pretty sad. Yeah, that's that's that's the instance where like the dog just was like staring them in the eyes while it was happening. And they also included some pictures of the initial house that they got it in in Magna, which was a terrifying looking basement to say the least. So I think the moral of the story is that you're going to start a new segment called Paranormal Tales and it's going to be out spirit animals.

I like it. Yeah. Well, we'll keep we'll keep we'll keep an eye out for some more possessed objects that we can intercept before they end up somewhere and tell my cat tells me to stop. I think is the basement guardian.

I plan on visiting Zach Bagan's museum when I go to Vegas in July. So I'll go visit and say, hey, what's up for you? Nice. We did kept we did keep threatening that we would throw it in the dumpster or take it to the dump if it wasn't going to perform anything for us.

And he did tip himself over. So yeah, it's a look. And then it did it and we're like, good enough. We've been here for two hours.

So back in the box. You go. Let's go. We cake.

All right. Sorry. So we had we've had a ton of investigations. It seems like we have all or nothing.

So are we ready to talk about our main topic? Yeah. So our main topic is brought to you by Otayos and, you know, first first look, it was it's a serial killer H.H. Holmes.

And, you know, we're not a true crime podcast, but serial killers are interesting. And there's always a little paranormal angle to them. Sometimes it's a bit of a stretch, but holy cow, this has got it all. This has got serial killings.

This has got curses. This has got paranormal just out the wazoo. This is fantastic. So have you guys ever heard of H.H.

Holmes before? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So you've heard of the old films, to be honest. Well, that's where he got the name from. And I never heard of him before, actually. So he said to be the first America's first serial killer.

So I've heard several things on him. So I was really excited to do this podcast. The first one they caught. There you go.

Those caveman serial killers. You know what's happened? So I think it's interesting. They call him the Beast of Chicago.

And I noticed that in a lot of the things I read, they they felt the need to point out that he was a Taurus. So for whatever that's worth, he's a Taurus. So he was born Herman Webster, much it. And I think H.H.

Holmes kind of flows easier off the tongue. He was born in 1861 in New Hampshire. He was actually privileged, intelligent. There were some signs though.

They said that they had a friend when he was younger that died. And now they're kind of suspicious that he may have killed that friend. But they're not sure. Yeah, they fell off a roof.

I also heard when he was five, he went to the doctor's office and some kids bullied him and threw him in a closet with a skeletal mannequin. I don't know what the word is, but anyways, it was probably pretty traumatic. Oh, he ruled it'd be with a real skeleton. I would think so.

But he was in, I mean, he just got into a lot of nasty stuff early. He was into frauds and scams. He would steal corpses at the University of Michigan and then try to get false insurance claims off of them. He would experiment on them.

He was a biggamist. I mean, he kind of did everything. So they're not sure how many people he killed. They're guessing between 20 and 200.

Ultimately, he was only charged for one. I've heard that he confessed to 27, but they feel they were a lot more than them. You know, up into the 200s. Yeah.

So yeah, that's kind of up in the air. But we can guess anywhere from 20 to 200, but he was essentially charged later on with just one. So around the time of the World's Fair that was in Chicago, there was a drug store on a corner. And the drug store owner died.

And so he talked to the widow and convinced her to let him buy it. That being said, afterwards, they wonder if the drug store owner died of cancer, like they said, or if, if I'm home's killed him. There's some other versions of that story that the drug store owner didn't die. And they actually ended up selling it out to HH Holmes.

They lived up in the upper area of the drug store for a while. So again, this is one of those things where there's a lot of speculation on a lot of different things. Yeah. So there's almost anything.

There's a couple different versions of the story. So if you're interested, do some research. Yeah. And I'd heard it both ways.

And the research I did, I heard that the drug store owner died. I heard that they had done that. There was another one that said that they said they moved to California. And that was refuted by even yet another story.

So there's a lot of speculation. Speculation. A lot of speculation. So essentially this hotel or this drug store though had two stories.

He built a third floor onto it. They ended up calling this place the murder castle. And I don't know if you guys read about this, but it has a lot of Winchester house-esque stuff going on. Yes.

Yeah. There's going to nowhere. Oh, go ahead. Oh, sorry.

Yeah. Like, apparently, like, they say it was soundproof room, secret passages, trap doors. But interesting enough, like, I've seen, I saw some articles that they were talking about. Well, actually, maybe it wasn't so much like this.

It was really weird. It's just, there's a lot of back and forth, kind of how many victims he had. Right. And people were saying, well, people were saying that it was a hotel.

But actually, it was apartments upstairs. Like, it was kind of weird because I always told it was like a hotel. But apparently, I don't know. And maybe he used the concept of saying, hey, it's a hotel to get people to come in.

That's what I heard. Yeah. Yeah. He had done that.

Yeah. And I heard that they found a lot of rooms where there was no windows or doors. Like, completely sealed off rooms, which, you know, if you're a fan of a certain ride, you probably are like, I know, windows, no doors. But like, literally, no windows, no doors, just room.

But I'll burn down. So, no. Well, the interesting thing about the house, too, is that I read in several different places that he actually hired three different contractors. He'd hire a contractor and then fire them and then hire a new one and fire them.

And the idea was that way, no one knew what the final plans were. And whiskey is for your, you know, the rooms with, this would have been back in the day where they had gas lights. And some of the rooms, the gas, the control for the gas and the locks would be on the outsides of the rooms, not the insides of the rooms. And then there's a little discrepancy about the basement.

Some of the trap doors that were on the third floor supposedly. And I think that there were, so you could drop bodies into the basement. Where the discrepancies come in, as they say in the basement, there was a crematorium. Like surgical tables where he could perform experiments.

Some people say there were like acid vats and lime vats. And some of the places that I researched said that there was a crematorium, there was the... Well, one of the businesses that he did was, they called it a glass bending business, which would require extreme high heat and a lot of those other things that you were just talking about. But it was never really a business.

It was never a going thing. But they did advertise as that it was a glass bending business. But nobody really knows what that was. Or there was never any product that came out from the glass bending business.

Or was that just a cover for creating the crematorium and all the other things. Right. He said a lot of things. Like he said he was building the hotel.

And that was just to get money from the bank so he could just keep adding, because they were needing hotels at that time with the World Fair coming over there. And so they're like, yeah, take our money. And then he just built whatever he wanted with it. So yeah, he was the biggest scammer of the 1800s probably.

Oh, absolutely. They also thought that he paid off police to keep it going. Because like you said, whiskey wasn't you that said you didn't think it was actually a hotel. I think it was because it was in a very prominent area, very close to the World Fair.

So it would make sense that a lot of people would want to go there. But he would lure people in with, you know, hey, I've got a job before you. You can work for me during the fair. And they would go in and they would never come out.

They said that someone said, I think the post office made me give a tour. Said that there was a possibly an escape hatch with like a little lead to like a tunnel room or something. So like that's pretty interesting. Because you can take a tour, I guess, of the post office as there now, I guess the basement or something.

Yeah. Before we get to the post office though. In 1895, the building was actually gutted by fire. And some people, a lot of people say that they saw two men going in before it lit on fire.

So they don't know if it was arsonist. They don't know if it was paranormal. And then it stood until 1938. And then like Velma said, it's now so it's not there anymore.

But it's where the Inglewood branch of the US post office is in Chicago. And if you're close to Chicago, it's on South Wallace and Gizrall Street. I hand-wrote my notes. So...

When you get there, just tell them to call us if you can. Yes, just say hey, we know people. The interesting thing, before we start talking about the curse and some of the paranormal stuff, just to kind of end with Holmes himself, he was hanged. He asked his coffin to be filled with cement after he died.

Because he was afraid of body snatchers. Because he was one. He was a body snatcher with his professor. Exactly.

He was a medical school. Do you guys know there's evidence to suggest that H.A. Tomes was Jack the Ripper? Ooh, yeah.

Have you got Yuri? Yeah. I have not. It's so intriguing to me.

So with H.A. Tomes, he could have been Jack the Ripper. The murder of five prostitutes in London, if you know about Jack the Ripper, who doesn't right. There's a gap in paperwork in America from mid-1888 and early 1889.

The exact times when Jack the Ripper was in London on his murder spree. Also, there are ship documents of an H. Holmes on a passenger ship returning to the U.S. from London, England, after the Ripper murders had happened.

Ooh, interesting. Yes. So that's basically the serial killer part of the story that you have to have the background for to make the rest of the story even more interesting. So if you go to that post office, the post office itself doesn't cover the exact same footprint as the murder castle.

But if you go down in the basement, part of the basement does extend into where the basement of the murder castle was. And they do believe that part of the foundation is the same foundation. There's been a lot of ghost sightings there. All the post office workers will tell you that it's super, super creepy down there.

There was one story of the lady. She was down there. One of the postal employees. And she was just doing her work.

And she heard a noise and she thought it was her co-worker. And so she called out her name, kind of looked around the corner. And around the corner, it was just an empty hall with some chairs, five or six chairs, just kind of in a row. Didn't see her co-worker.

So she turned back, you know, started doing her thing. Just seconds later heard the noise again and looked back. And all those chairs had been stacked up just in the matter of a couple of seconds. And they all say it's really creepy.

And they say that they just kind of see the things that you would expect to see. They say, you know, sounds, shadow figures, a lot of people call it the most haunted area in the Inglewood area of Chicago. They claim to see the apparition of the young woman. They hear a woman humming and or singing.

So there's a fellow named Jeff Mudgett. Have you did you guys hear about him? Yeah. It's his relative, right?

It's his great-great-grandson who didn't realize this was his grandfather until he was in his 40s. And so he decided to go visit. And so he went into the basement and they said, like, don't go down there. And he says it was really creepy, really dark.

And he said he went down into the basement as a non-believer. You know, thinking of all this a bunch of hooey. But he said he experienced severe physical and emotional effects from the visit. And he came out of a leaver.

And he didn't really go much into what happened. And I think it's interesting. There's a quote that I found in several places. So I think it's a legit quote from Holmes.

He says, I was born with the devil in me. I could not help the fact that I was a murderer. No more than the poet can help with the inspiration to sing. And so it kind of makes you wonder, you know, was he?

What did he mean by that? Was he possessed? And he knew he was possessed. Was he influenced by a negative entity?

You know, by that, did he just mean that it was just him? He was just compelled to do it. But I found that very interesting. To kind of go towards maybe the spiritual stuff too.

I heard about someone named Patrick Quinlan. I don't know if you guys heard about him. He was a janitor employed by Holmes at the murder castle. And he claimed to be haunted by the spirit of the serial killer.

And he ingested Streis and I and an apparent suicide intent, a tent leading some to believe he was tormented by Holmes's vengeful of the host. So I didn't get much about him, but yeah. I thought that was interesting. That's one of your crazy theory.

Yes. Yeah. I want to tell you about someone one, tell you problem. All right, listen, listen, this guy, he says, allegedly, they say he killed like 250 people, right?

We only know, I think about like eight for sure. And then like about another maybe 20 that are like, probably everybody that like, even if they defended him, accused him, anything, anything reported on him, even. So watch out. Us has fallen ill to different things randomly.

It almost kind of reminds me, can you talk a little bit? Yes, this is the first. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm segueing segueing us.

My thought is here, my crazy theory is that 250 people will die and he will be the cause of their murder or death, but he didn't say he was going to do it when they were alive. So a little bit of foreshadowing. Yeah. So like you said about the curse, I found that interesting.

So it said that everybody that was involved in his trial had some, some just weird illnesses. I mean, they just didn't die of old age. So there was a detective that followed him was the actually the only one that didn't die and everybody else did. So the coroner and his assistant died of weird illnesses.

The warden at his prison committed suicide, the priest that, you know, intended him at the hanging and did kind of like last rites was found beaten to death behind his church. The office of one of Holmes's insurance agents burned to the ground and the only item that was found intact were Holmes insurance forms and his picture. So yeah, he's he could still be just wreaking havoc as a spirit. Gas explosions, electrocutions, sudden misdiagnosed illnesses, suicides.

Yeah. I mean, well, and then people have people have said that they think so that they call it a grassy gnoll, which to me, I just think of Kennedy and Dallas. Yeah, I was like, you're like wrong story, Raven, come back. They call it a grassy gnoll and it's just kind of the grassy area where like the basement kind of goes under, but on top is where the murder castle would have been, but not just grass.

But a lot of people say that they see an apparition that they think is Holmes himself talking to grounds looking for victims and the area that they see him in is actually quite a secure area because it's a United States post office. So you can't just, you know, traipse around wherever you want, but they say it's in that area. And in that area, they say they hear disembodied voices, disembodied music, feelings of being touched, especially on their armor shoulder. They feel their hair pulled.

They feel slapped and pinched. Yikes. So I'm just saying, if we were to go to Chicago and have a picnic on the grassy gnoll, maybe we could have some ghost hunting equipment with this. Um, or maybe we could have a basement.

So, I mean, it's something I wanted to kind of add when we just talked about the murder castle, he actually owned a bunch of other businesses because like now we can go visit those two, I guess where they used to be, but he owns a Frank Wild. He, he used that name a lot of apparently his fruit and candy store in wicker park. So we can check that out. ABC copier company in the loop and police found a furnace large enough for commutation, cremation at the glass bending factory that you're kind of talking about earlier, along with items related to Holmes's other adventures.

And the fact was also linked to the mysterious disappearance of one of his wives, many Williams. So I didn't know much about that. But, and then the one thing that I thought was interesting, there is a theory that maybe he wasn't the one actually hanging to get someone else in his place. But yeah, anthropologists in 2017 at the University of Pennsylvania, I zoomed his body and did a test and then it was his DNA.

That one was apparently debunked. So he actually, what was awesome about that was they said with, since he was so well preserved in that cement, he had his mustache still intact, which was his trademark. That's just creepy. There was a quote about that that I thought was pretty interesting where they said, you know, he cemented himself to stop people from reaching in, but it never stopped him from reaching out.

It's so cool. That's deep. All right. So our next segment is sponsored by hypnotherapy, but you back in control of your life, your body, your relationships and your surroundings.

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