Han shot first (Friends)

Welcome to changelog and friends and weekly talk show about open source of boating systems. Thanks as always to our partners at fly.io, the platform for devs who just want to ship, build fast, run any code fearlessly at fly.io. Okay, let's talk. Well friends, I don't know about you, but something bothers me by getting actions.

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And you should too. Namespace.so. Well, it's been far too long. But finally, Brett, Canon is back on change logging friends.

Thanks for having me back, guys. John Wick and Doon and we're just not talking about the thing though. We're skipping that. We're skipping that maybe even a little bit of indoor, you know.

And yeah, actually watch and or specifically to come back on for I think backstage before stop doing it. We're not doing that at all now. But you know, I'll mention that I've had the pleasure since the holiday break, like some of December, January, and then obviously we're here in February now, my son, my oldest son has gotten into Star Wars. And so we've watched all nine of the main movie shows, the main movie movies, you know, and then now what order did you do?

Well, chronological. So this is a really interesting phenomenon. I think that was a really phenomenon. Maybe it's not maybe it's just a luxury, is that, you know, we grew up in an era where we got we had to watch them out of order.

And so we kind of watched, you know, episodes four, five, and six with a lot of context missing, a lot of mystery. But if you watch them in chronological order, you watch four, five, and six with all that context and all that mystery ruined essentially. Yeah, which is kind of a sad thing, but it's kind of cool in a way to appreciate the watching from two different angles. We watched them chronologically, you know, we knew that spoiler alert, okay, it's on the horn, that Anakin is Darth Vader.

Okay, if you don't know right now, then what rock, okay, what rock? But you know, you kind of didn't really know, but there was mention of Anakin Skywalker a couple times in episodes four, five, and six that we never really probably pinned back to a person that mattered in the story, although they were mentioned, because we didn't know that Anakin was Darth Vader. Unless maybe you were like a super crazy critic, then you just knew this stuff. But anyways, we've watched them.

And now we're watching Rogue One, which I believe is the best, the best. Yeah, the best Star Wars movie of all time is the best. Wow. Awesome.

Awesome. Yeah, I'll say it's awesome, but not the best. Maybe the best of the modern era. Well, okay, let me say where I'm saying it's best from storyline, maybe not so much, but visually, wow, such a cinematography.

Yeah, the director of the was amazing. The detail in the things we didn't have detailing, like the Death Star, so much detail, like the detail in the ship, the detail in the world is in the land, like so much detail. That's why I think it's the best. And it has the, I would say the beginning of the cinematic era, like the certain look that it has, that's what I mean by the best.

And so that's one kind of, not so much the storyline itself, but those details, in my opinion, elevated above a lot of them for me. So this brings up a big topic, which is the order that you show your kids the movies in, because discerning parents and Star Wars nerds have been arguing, debating like what's the best order. I chose order of release. For the reason for the reason of, that's the order that I experienced them in.

So I'm gonna let you experience them in order of release. At the time that my kids were first watching them, the sequel trilogy wasn't out yet. So it was four, five, six, one, two, three. I had a note about machete order, which right?

You just mentioned machete order. So you must be all about this. The machete order is like even more intentional than that. Do you know the order that that is and why?

Yeah. So just for everyone else, because it has been a little else has been on, I've become a parent since my last appearance. And so I've been thinking about this because getting ready for that day, our little one there. Star Wars enough that they recognize the Imperial March and go Star Wars, Star Wars.

So got the machete order is doing one, two, skip over three, four, five, go back to, go back and do three and then jump to six. Basically, it's let you lead up, see kind of how things start, hide the show on three, right? Let you kind of go, okay, something happened, right? And oh, my big reveal, and then we'll go plug, fill the hole, and now you can live that and then okay, we'll finish that start.

Now this was all before I or to the third trilogy, right? So seven, eight, nine, it's not a part of it. So I haven't decided quite how I wanted this. I mean, one of the reasons I'm interested about machete is because Phantom Menace was very much made for children.

And so it's going to be age appropriate sooner than episode four, which helps me at least kind of sounds a little weird to say that's controlled the narrative so that our little one can watch as soon as I want think they're ready to watch and not be at a friend's house and have kind of shown to them without me being there to experience it. Because as a big Star Wars nerd, I want to be the one that sits there with them on the sofa, watch these films, watch their eyes, watch to have a conversation and really be part of that versus some kid on the playground going, oh, yeah, yeah, haven't you seen a blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm just like, all right. So yeah, that's my shady order. And I haven't quite decided if I'm going to do it or do like Adam didn't just do chronological in terms of timeline.

But I've got some time. I mean, our little ones, not even two yet. So I'm just planning at a time must plan ahead, though, right? I mean, the fact that you're even thinking about a podcasting about a social great parent.

I mean, congratulations. They're really taking care of the important stuff, you know. Oh, yeah, they already miss the message and failure is groggo. So is that the right?

What are they? I'm looking at, I did a quick Google curse research, Mercedes movie, Star Wars, and I got back. It could be four, five, one, two, three. What's missing even two?

I think one is like one isn't in the list. So it's four, five, two, three, six. All right. I remember they skipped one because they thought it was so bad.

It's good for kids. Like we might not appreciate it and it had a lot of flack. And I know actually, apparently, generationally, the kids who grew up with one, two, and three actually have way more appreciation for that trilogy versus the four, five, six trilogy that we all grew up with. That's right.

Today ourselves. So who is this person that made this up, though? I mean, it says Hilton, argued. Who's Hilton?

I'm trying to catch up to these details. Person on the internet, I think. But I think actually right down to that, I have parent brain. So memory is not so great anymore.

But yeah, I think you're right. I think it was like four, five, two, three, six to start original trilogy, go. There's a shock and go back, fill the history of it and then continue on without, yeah. That's right.

Well, hey, I'm down for a rewatch. So I mean, at this point, let me just expose myself here. Okay, right here on the air, my diaphragm movie fans are in love this. I had to go and reorder all these things in 4k, because you know the computer I have, right?

And so I watched it on Disney Plus, which is like, it's okay. If you're an audio file movie guy like I am, I just felt like I was just taking a bath in your water or something like that. I just didn't feel good about my life watching it via Disney Plus. Okay.

So here's a real quick question. What version of last Jedi do you have? Do you have the Dolby Vision version or the later version that dropped it only has HDR 10? Oh, tell you a second, because that's the one I have on Plex.

Let's see what we got. I don't know. I can't remember. But yeah, the first release of the last Jedi on 4k had Dolby Vision support, and then they've re-released it probably one episode nine or something came out and it dropped it.

You said the last Jedi, right? Yeah, absolutely. Let's see here. I have the DTS HD MA7-1, and I don't know what the vision part of it is.

So I got HD. Is that indicating to you? No, I only know because I have the disc, and I was able to check the back of the disc. What would be different about it?

So the key details is Dolby Vision versus HDR 10 and 10 Plus is just- Yeah, I don't have the vision on this then, that's for sure. Yeah. So probably not. Usually that's a disc thing.

They don't keep it because it adds bits, because it's the color depth of record. And also how detailed the color depth is per scene. Like Dolby Vision, Dolby and HDR 10 Plus is a per scene slash frame color depth versus the whole movie. So Dolby Vision can give you slightly more color detail.

I think that there's a lot more bits. I have requests for you then. When I do purchase this, I would like to screen share live record and stream this for our listeners, okay? You will help me push the final button on which button to push when I order this, if you're willing to, obviously, to make sure, because I'm with you, that's why I want the 4k.

I want the HDR. I want the color depth. I want the audio. I want whomever went back to the source and remastered these, but hopefully with the utmost care and importance, I want that.

I want that in perpetuity. That is why I've rebot the Star Wars trilogy and all the versions all in 4k and have bought them from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray and to 4k and very much because I want that disc experience. Like you out of mine. I care.

I actually bought a Blu-ray player, so I could play the 4k discs. Now granted, I haven't upgraded my TV yet. I keep postponing. Well, we moved.

So it was one of those. Not showing you that. Yeah. Could have bought for our old place, which would have been a certain size and then apply for the space and get the proper size spout rule permitting.

We've talked about it. We'll see. So one of the things we're trying to do with our kiddo is we have what we call the screen room. So here's my desk.

Partners desk on the other side, hence, if you hear any weird noises, they're here working too. And the TV is right there. So that lets us isolate screens time for our kid so that they don't get tempted. The biggest temptation they ever have is if we're on our phones because they've gotten smart enough that they know how to ask for Thomas for Thomas to take engine or ask for a home or system history and we'd say no, and usually pretty good.

But if you started at all and then cut them off, not that not happy tears. Same with music. We even found like getting upset in the car, play some music, maybe some sesame Street. They want to see Elmo show them Elmo on your phone because it's the artwork, the cover.

Still not happy when you cut them off because like we're Elmo. I want Elmo. I was like very visual. So it's one of those.

We try to be very stringent about that just so that they don't get that hook early. But because that we have a TV and it's small enough space that a projector wouldn't work. But if for some reason they moved up here when they became a teenager because it's the third floor of our house, we would probably put a projector in downstairs, which is how we'll reach out to you. I'm Rachel.

Yeah. Well, happy to help Elmo. I can't enjoy the best films ever in the world. So you guys care about the visual and audio depth and all the information.

I just went hot to shoot first. That's what I care about. I'll watch it on VHS. If we can have Han shooting first, please don't change things after the case.

That's my beef. I've always hoped that Disney would re-release the original versions and we'd have those. But I'm a mastermind. Yeah, how amazing would that be?

Well, the problem is, is George, what is this? Han shoots first. What is this detail? Oh, wow.

Okay. So there's two things here. First, the redo's. George gets destroyed a lot of the original copies.

So you can't really go back and get them because he claims that the remakes, the re-specialization special effects versions he did are the actual versions he wanted to do, right? Like he was complaining that most likely didn't meet expectations for him in his head. It was supposed to be his star port. He didn't have the budget, but he was able to CG it in later.

I'm more sympathetic to that than the actual change of the storyline or the characterization. Yeah. So what, I mean, do you want to tell Jared or do you want me to do it? No, you go ahead.

You've got the okay. So there's a famous controversy that if you look at the original versions of episode four, in the cantina, most likely Han Solo shoots Greedo first, right? Like when they're the whole talk and all that, you see him cock the hammer on his blaster and then he just. He had it on the table, right?

He had it on the table. Han shot first. Lucas didn't like that and thought it's hit the wrong message. So he changed it so that Greedo shot missed Han past the head and then Han shot simultaneously.

Turn it into self-defense. He turned into self-defense, which softens Han Solo's character. Exactly. And it doesn't give him the kind of redemption arc of being that scallywag as it were, or rogue person who's only kind of realizes that there's more to life than just me, me, me, and Jabaka.

And there's more to it and becomes memorable and so that arc kind of gets taken away. Yeah. So this became a huge thing. There's t-shirts like Han shot first t-shirts by people who are just mad at Lucas.

Well, because you changed the movie that we loved in small ways, but small ways have big ripple effects, you know? Yeah, I'm fine with him going back to most easily and like adding creatures and stuff like I think they look bad. So I don't really love it because it's like the digital Java didn't live up to the public in the 90s. Like if they read it now, maybe it looked better, but I thought it looked bad and it's six out of like a sore thumb.

Yeah, he went and added in but it's not changing the actual it's just like, yeah, I get that he wanted it to be more. He couldn't do that with the budget and the technology constraints. He wants to go back and make it a buzzing spaceport. Don't change the nature of Han Solo, you know?

All right. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, like when you take especially the character that Han Solo is throughout the entire series from, I guess not episode one, two, three, technically, but you know, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, as soon as you consider seven, eight, nine, cannon, whatever. Okay.

Okay. He's been a mall. He's really important to color and Ben, you know, it to the end of the movie to the very last movie. That's right.

In the current canon, if you call it the canon, he's there to the whole thing. So that story arc really is important. I never, I see I haven't been this deep. I've been a fan, but not this deep of fan that even know there was this, you know, hunch up first, you know, fan iconic fan scenario.

I didn't know. Well, we had a lot of free time between the originals and the prequel to reality, you know, had a lot of free time. You really didn't have very many opportunities to watch it because you got caught it on VHS or you wait for the re-releases and when the re-releases were coming out in the 90s, 90s, you know, you wanted, I mean, typical fans, they wanted to see what they saw on screen the first time. And so when these were coming out and there were changes, you know, people got, you know, the hardcore nerds, nerd it out and they started saying stuff like, not lovers.

Well, and the other thing is, is the episodes one through three, the second, the, I don't know, prequel trilogy, those all came out from I remember like, turn the century, right? So 2000s. And so all that was also coming out when the internet was really booming. So I think it was also a lot of buzz and a lot of real evaluation of 4.5 and 6.

And so a lot of this came out right when we were all like real deep in the internet and reading stuff and you could find your people and just kind of nerd out on this kind of stuff. Yeah, you've been part of the essays. Yeah, exactly right. And part of this, you'd either have to hope you saw a TV special or read a magazine that happened to mention any of this stuff.

You can just seek this information out or just share it, right? Like, Wikipedia didn't exist, right? That whole concept hadn't shown up. So I think it kind of will coincide with that.

And everyone just be able to deep dive on the stuff we all nerd about, right? Because like, I had to impart strikes back, but cheats as a child. And I had the toys, but all I knew was, yeah, the films when they showed up on TV or as I said, on VHS or they got released in the theater for some reason, right? It was just one of those things that I love, but I didn't get to really get into it.

And then eventually we got home consumption and then the fandom and you could really dive into it and just really go as deep as you really wanted Yeah. And the internet really did create a place where fans could gather and discuss and fandom exploded alongside the internet. I remember and early TV shows that played into that or maybe they didn't even try to, but they ended up playing into that really benefit. I think of lost and all of the mysteries around lost, of course, are the most disappointing TV shows in human history.

But the first three seasons were spectacular. The first two seasons were spectacular. This is just my opinion, now season three was okay. And then just like a long, slow decline and ultimately disappointment, but there were so many fan essays and what do you call them?

Like trying to explain the mysteries of lost and they were so interesting. Like they made the show better because there were so many interesting ideas of what might be going on that I think it made loss more popular than it would have been at all. Yeah. I mean, it was a phenomenon.

It really was. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

It was one of those things where because there was so much potential foreshadowing, everyone was trying to read into everything, knowing what was designed that way. So everyone knew this stuff was foreshadowing or not and trying to figure it all out. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, and I only watched the first two seasons because I won't warn you, you'll be disappointed if you're watching. That's basically an amazing watch then because I left you on a high and I watched it to the bitter end. And one of the reasons why that particular series made me mad was because Damon Lindelof, the writer, he had stated at some point early on, we have a story arc, like we have the entire thing figured out. And he was basically lying, I think.

Like he said, we had three seasons figured out. They did not have the actual one resolution that was going to satisfy from the beginning. Like he said, they did. And so we were so expecting, even as it started to get worse and worse, I'm just kept being like, no, man, they said they're taking care of us.

It's going to happen. You know, it's all going to come together. And then I watched the series from now, like, no, I mean, it's such a rarity to get the plan that all out, right? Like, I remember that was one of the big deals with Avalon five when that came out, right?

Was Babylon five was written on a five season arc to, and Jamie Kostrowsinsky had the whole plan out in his head of the big beats where it was all lined up and how he was able to build all that intrigue and all the political machinations and all that stuff in the show and actually have a plan paying out is because he just set up front like, look, I can't, I'm not writing it to end in the number series. It's going to end a five. That's it. I hope to goodness you give me the funding so I can see it through.

And yeah, it's a unique thing. It's not a common thing as much as it used to be. Well, I bet the Game of Thrones fans were hoping he'd have it all figured out before. I never got into that show, but I know a lot of you were disappointed with that one.

I read the books and then the show came out and I watched the whole show beginning and and now I don't know if I care about the books, fine enough, because it's one of those things of, I know they're going to diverge, but also being a parent, they're not, they're long and there's a lot of detail to them and it's been so long since the last book came out. Like, I honestly feel like I almost had to read them again and it's just, oh yeah, I don't have that kind of time anymore. That's why you need either 2x or AI, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, summarize these books for me, AI, so I can enjoy them.

I'm sure they'll give you a page to catch up real fast, but yeah, it's definitely one of those things. This is like why I love the Murder Bop series. If you've ever read those books, you've made for the TV show on Apple TV, Murder Bop. It's a great sci-fi series, but the deal is is Martha Wells who wrote them, the version wrote them all as novellas, so they're short until they're under 150 pages.

So you didn't actually write a full book until like the fifth one and just kept doing them as novellas and they're great. If you like sarcasm and like point out the ridiculousness of people, very funny in sci-fi book series and it's really quick and easy to pick up because they're all novellas to begin with and they started out as a short story in Wired Magazine. So I highly recommend it's one of my favorite book series actually. Okay, I'm looking at that.

Murder Bop, cool. So you recommend the show or the books? I actually haven't watched the show. The novellas, I guess.

The books is all based on the books, but someone wised up to take the books and turn it into a TV show because they're right and so good and the stories are so great. But I actually haven't watched the Apple TV show because I haven't had time yet. I'm just finishing up Ted Lasso, like I'm behind on TV. I'm almost, I'm almost my second time through Ted Lasso.

I'm like season two, second time through, middle of season two. Yeah, when the kiddo showed up, we really tried to make sure we didn't want anything to record any thought or anything really new. So we're like rewatch part of I think Superstore and then we kind of stopped when you hit that six month stage of, okay, baby ain't just napping all day long. It's now engagement time.

And so TV time really fell back. And then we only just started, I don't know, a couple of months ago, starting to watch TV and so just trying to squeeze in the occasional movie. And yeah, so Kerwin's Ted Lasso. But yeah, we haven't watched TV show, although it is on my list because I'm really curious to see how they did stuff.

And they handle it. You know, what's, how many seasons do you have three or just two? Three now, four this coming. Oh, really?

Okay. So I feel off on the second season, kind of slowed down for me. Is that last time? Yeah.

It's like changed. I can't recall how it changed, but it just felt different. Not bad, but it's like the pace of the story slowed. Yeah, I couldn't keep up with my excitement anymore, I guess.

Yeah, it does slow down. It becomes, yeah, like the first season almost felt like how to be a good manager story. And then it becomes a bit more about the people later on, season three, actually, even makes the episodes longer. They go from half hour to an hour.

I thought season three is really good. There's only so long you can keep up the fish out of story thing or fish out of story. Yeah, like it's only so long. And that's like season one and then like they have to go somewhere else.

And so a lot of it falls into like the life of Ted and, you know, his history and a lot of the troubles that he has and dealing with those troubles and it does slow down in its pace. But there's still some interesting, there's an episode in season two where it's just Coach Beard, like having a wild night. Oh, yeah. It's just crazy.

It's like the crazy episode ever that it doesn't attach to anything. It's like a standalone. I mean, it has a little bit of an attachment. It doesn't matter.

It's just so cool. So what a friend told me was supposedly they wrote that season two episode short of what they contractually had to do. So they had to write two extra episodes to fill it in. And my really, assuming that information is correct, my guess is that's one of the episodes.

It was a filler episode. Yeah, because it is kind of off the wall. It's totally up. No need to be there whatsoever.

If you took it out and never watched it, it would not affect. No, it's like an overnight session of him going on a wild journey, you know. And it's so weird. No, I definitely changed the tone after season one.

It's still a comedy, but it came a bit more dramatic about the people and character study and less just flat out, as Jared said, the fish out of order comedy. What happens if you drop someone from Kansas in London? Yeah, because I mean, eventually you become a native, right? And then you speak to tongues, next thing, you know, you're get the British accent and all right, you know, like, only so long, you make jokes about not understanding football or soccer, because like he gets it, you know, he's been there for years, right?

Yeah. And even those little special treats he makes. Like, I want the recipe for those who want to try one. Yeah, the biscuits.

The biscuits. Yeah. I knew they were like a surprise. And I don't know all the character's names, but a surprise to them.

I mean, Rebecca, yeah, that doesn't make some sense. And then obviously Rebecca and Ted Ted. But yeah, they keep that going. He keeps handling those things every single morning.

You know, I mean, what a sweet guy. What a sweet guy. You know, only because we're on this kick here. I have to mention two words.

Hail Mary. Oh, I'm looking forward to it. I did not watch the Super Bowl. So I did not see the trailer.

I know Adam hasn't either. Absolutely not. But I'm interested. I'm very interested to see where this where how that movie does.

I've done some trailer peaking. I will peek at a trailer. Okay. Well, watch it.

Yeah. But I just want to get like the cinematography. Like, how's it going to look? Look away.

You know, that's that's me with trailers. Okay. To add some context for everyone. This is the upcoming movie based on the Andy Weir novel, Roger Till Mary, starring Ryan Gosling.

I think Adam and I, right, you read the book? No. Okay. He just knows the movie is coming out.

Adam and I read the book. I think you audible it. I've seen the trailer. That's it.

I audible it about 17,000 times. He audible it. And I read it with my eyeballs, which means I didn't know how to pronounce astrophage. It's astrophage.

When you read the words on the page, you just say it the way that sounds in your head. How'd you say it, dude? Astrophagy. You know, it's like astrophagy.

I was like, do you mean astrophage? And I'm like, you know, that's how they pronounce it. He's like, well, because I listen to an audible. I'm like, okay, good.

That's one advertisement for listening to books. That's right. They help you understand how to say things. Yeah.

It's like, how am I supposed to pronounce this character's name? I have no idea. Like, no idea. I just guess and hope it's somewhat.

I mean, who cares? I bet the author doesn't care, but I wonder what they had in their head. Right. Well, that's the thing about audible is like the person who's reading it, the narrator, they can go ask the author, you know, how did you have it?

And they're directed to it. This is Ray Porter, by the way. I mean, Ray Porter, that's just be clear. The person who narrated is Ray, the great narrator, Ray Porter.

I mean, the best of all time for sci-fi. I mean, anything he voices is going to sound good or be good, okay, better than David Attenborough. I mean, they're two different claws. I mean, they're not the same cloth.

I know. I'm just trying to think of another great voice. You know, I actually think about that recently because I'm going to, I know he's getting older and I'm going to mourn the day when he actually passes because like, wow, well, any earth type narrated, narrated documentary, what would you call this? They're not a documentary, like, yeah, they're documented, I guess, but like, they're a different kind.

They're like science-based documentaries, you know, they're not like crime-based documentaries, for example, nature stories. I don't know, you're calling them. Nature is great. Nature is great.

Nature is great. Yeah, it's nature documentaries. Like, he is the quintessential voice for all those things. I was just on my way for this.

I was like, babe, he's going to pass ways. And I'm not wanting this. I mean, it's just how it works. Okay, y'all, and how's he going to be when we can't watch these films with these documentaries with our kids?

And he's not the one voice anymore. Like, that would be a sad day or year, but are they just pause making them? I don't know. Yeah, well, so we have a so here in Canada, we have David Suzuki, who's kind of our similar version.

David Suzuki did a TV show on CBC, The Nature of Things, and he retired a few years ago from it. It still pops up and does political stuff, because the David Suzuki Foundation is a big nonprofit fighting for the environment and everything, actually, I think, BC, local. But yeah, some are a thing, but he just, yeah, he retired and just slowly did less and less and just kind of stopped making public appearances. And that's how he did it.

David Averlo seems to just keep doing it. He's like, I just love talking to a microphone about animals and florin' fauna, and I'm just going to keep doing it until I can't do it. His pace is uncanny. Oh, it's insane.

Now, here's a, here's a question of future morals and ethics, so here's a guy who's voice. I know where this is going. Well, you guys are thinking too, I'm still going to say it. Well, I mean, can I just go ahead and I know where this is going, and I'm sorry I was tied back for this.

Okay, cool. Yeah, I know where you're going with that. So we have hours and hours of just like lossless, amazing quality recordings of the guy's voice, and we can deploy those into the future at better and better usages to the point where, right now, you can still tell. But 10 years from now, it's going to be an discernible, I assume, from his actual person, because you've never seen it.

I mean, I know what he looks like, but you don't have to see his face. You just hear his voice, I can hear his voice in my head right now. I can't make your face. Oh, yes, I'm here.

What happens when you guys Adam? I mean, what couldn't his foundation, you know, license that out and the world could continue to benefit from this guy's amazing pace and vocals. Well, now we're getting into, I just want to throw one more thing in there, right? Because I think you might like this too.

Now we're getting kind of into Ready Player Two's territory. If you watched or read Ready Player One, great film, fun, yeah, nostalgia, but the book is better. And Ready Player Two goes into really great, well, really interesting places, let's just say. So today, this is the Star Wars.

Apparently James Earl Jones did recordings of his voice with a Ukrainian company, actually, for Disney, so that they can keep using his voice for Darth Vader specifically. And I think that's an interesting distinction here of Dana Attenborough, the person versus a character, right? And so for me, I don't think I'd want to hear a AI generated David Attenborough. It just isn't the same.

I know it's the voice in the intonation and the pacing is what we'll associate with that, but it's not going to be the person, right? And that's who, I mean, if it was really just the voice, we would not care whether this person was alive or dead. But the point is we do, we care about David Attenborough, the person for what they have done and accomplished and given to the world. So for me, it's more than just the voice.

For Darth Vader, as a fictional character, I'm less bothered by it, especially and specifically because the actor is given permission to do it. So if the actor is given the permission to say, yes, Disney, you can keep you as my voice for Darth Vader for whatever you need it for. I'm okay with that. I get that and I won't personally have problems with it because it's a fully fictional character to begin with and the actor is it okay.

David Attenborough, I don't know, it just has a weird different feel when it's literally the person and not a fictional character. So I'd rather just hope someone else kind of comes up through the works and kind of becomes the next great BBC nature voiceover person versus just, let's just keep reusing to have that number forever and never have a human being ever do this again. Because it'd be tempting, let's be honest, like, do you really want to try something new with someone or just stick with what you know, especially if it's starting to actually write it. And I already loved it.

So we already know, we already loved it. Yeah. Now what if they in Attenborough did the same thing? He said, I want my voice to live on perpetuity.

I love nature docs. So, you know, whatever permissions you need from now on after I die, my last will and testament is use my voice for any nature doc you want. Go have fun. Now, would you listen?

Would you listen? Would you not listen? Would you care? Would that change your perspective?

I wouldn't stop me, but I'd, yeah, I'd still be perfect person, but I wouldn't be upset about it if you said sure, but I still feels a little weird. You know what, man, I don't know. I'm really, I'm really, this is a really fine line that we're presented with and potentially crossing because I don't know if I care, I guess. I just don't know if I care.

I think in particular, if that was true, if David said, Hey, super fan of my work, perpetuity, all that good stuff, if it was his wish, then I wouldn't, I certainly would care at that point. But if it was against his wish, then I would certainly care. Same. You know, so like, if he was for it, and he's like, I donate in all the ways to an audio lab that can do this stuff and do it in a way that presents his desires and those desires kind of have a license or a criteria set to it.

And they're always, it's always using that criteria and that license. I'm for it. I'm for it. If the man wants to live on, I mean, he's earned it.

Well, I mean, I'm going to enjoy it because if it's David and they can kind of like, kind of keep it in the David way, the person of David, shoot for the moon, man, go for it. We can't stop this stuff. I mean, we just can't stop this stuff. It's just going to happen.

And we have to work around it. We have to be augmented by it, not it's just it's coming. It's like a freight train. It's coming.

You can't stop. Yeah. Take an attack. Take an attack.

Well, hey, if there's any union that can stop it, it's going to be the film industry unions. I do. I don't think he would do that. That's true.

Okay. We should be clear. He didn't say this stuff. This is hypothetical.

Yeah. Nor would I think anybody say all the things I said just now, because it's like, I mean, you can ruin your legacy. If someone can literally put words in your mouth, you know, after you're gone, they can just say you're saying things and you never said those things and that could ruin your legacy. Well, that's what I say.

Like, if you can do it in a license, if you can say, yeah, in these contexts with this kind of supervision, with this kind of specification, and then the ending result has to, you know, deliver on this contract, this promise that I think that that's a version of a last will and testament is a contract, right? Yeah. So you're going to use something in that regard and adheres that regard and it's desired by the original person. But I would say David Albera is also in a unique position, right?

Where he could say like, okay, only the BBC, only for nature documentaries. You can never make a political statement, et cetera, et cetera, in which case, that's very locked in. But if it's if it's a character from a movie or something and the movie series goes, you know, if we have them say this slightly spicy thing, but then it sounds like something from that person. And that's not so great, right?

Like the air tightness you'd have to have plus, I mean, by the way, David Albera's voice got used digitally and said something wrong. I mean, forget the British public, like the world would get really upset. And you'd have such an airtight contract of really what you couldn't do and be really careful. And somehow, if you're in another community that's not like the studios or whoever to trust to make that call, like it's going to be really airtight with that.

I mean, I'm sure it's coming in, they're going to do it. And some people are going to accidentally sign a little too loose of a contract and something's going to happen at some point. I mean, it's going to happen. But I think the question is, yeah, how's it all going to play out and how that's going to look?

I mean, I know there's the actors guild, like the last strike was all about this stuff, right? With the writers and actors, like, no, you can't just force anyone automatically to have to give you their rights perpetuity to recreate the character and all that, because they don't want to see that happen. So I think it's going to be a lot of baby steps. Along those lines, did you guys see the ad in the Super Bowl, which was the Duncan Donuts ad Ben Affleck, where he was?

Yeah, that was last year, right? Good. Well, Duncan, I think it was just this year. Oh, did you again?

They did that previously. They might have done it previously. And I was just, I was literally on a party and walking it. So maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but it had Steve Urkel, it had Joe Triviani, yeah, it had Ben Affleck, a handful, a sign who's a Seinfeld, George from Seinfeld.

Jason Alexander. Yeah, Jason Alexander. And they were in character as if they were those actual people in the shows, not as the actors, like it wasn't Jason Alexander, it was George, you know. Oh, okay.

And they were acting, but they seemed clearly AI acting. This is where I might be on a term. Maybe they just had some sort of, like, maybe the actors really got together and recorded it, and then they put something on top of them that made them look fake. But I'm pretty sure they weren't there.

Like, I'm pretty sure they had permission. They probably got money for it and all these things that was all on the up and up. But like, it wasn't really Jason Alexander, it wasn't really Jaleel White or whoever plays Arkel at the end of the right now. Yeah, you're right.

Because he's much older now, it looked like the end, and I'm thinking like, well, this is coming too. But when I watched that particular ad, I was a bit offended because I felt like this is Uncanny Valley, it's almost them, but it's not them. And now I'm thinking about the production and how it was made. I'm not, it's actually a really funny spot.

Had it been the actual, all the actors were hilarious. Yeah. Because they're all, it's like, good, well, hunting was like good, well, dunking. And the whole thing is like, Ben Affleck, he's a smart one and there's a lot of good jokes in it.

But if you guys didn't see him, you can't comment. My thing is I feel like we're in this place where it's like Uncanny Valley of AI generated people. And so it's strange. But like I said, a few minutes ago, 10 years from now, I think it's going to be gone.

Well, the interesting thing with those is those people are alive. So they can, okay, or sink it. But the other thing is, is if they allow it, they don't even have to show up to catch the check. Well, that's why I assume that you would do it that way, right?

It's like, you don't, all you have to do is get their likeness and their permission and send them the money and they stay at home. And you don't have to have a studio time, there's no, there's no airplanes, there's no scheduling. The coordination of schedules is way more efficient. Capital and still has a pretty good result.

Although I feel like this one fell short of the market, personally, just an interesting time where it's changing. Like that's a super role ad. So that's a huge budget thing where maybe they spent way more on the kind slot than they had to spend on the production. Yeah.

Or maybe, yeah, they just are, I mean, I'm sure it was not cheap, you know, people to license out their look, their likeness to do that commercial. So I'm sure they still made, made bank. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

As you said, it'd be more fun to know it was actually them because like, did they go to mocap was entirely just auto generated? Like it'd be a little more interesting if it was mocap and at least they would have their emotions, but if the motions were a little off, I mean, that's part of the mannerisms of the character. If that's not there, that's where you get that weirdo kind of like, it's not quite right. So if you do a motion capture, you might as well just have the actor on screen, right?

Like maybe it's just a coordination. I'm assuming scheduling would get in the problem at that point too, right? Those people are somewhat popular enough. They're like, eh, I just don't feel like flying to wherever they're doing the filming.

I just don't care or whatever. Now on the actor side, if you can get to that point where your, your name, image, and likeness is so valuable that you can just, you know, sign contracts all day and not have to go anywhere. That's pretty cool for them. It's hard to be an up-and-comber, but the ones who are already there, you know, it's kind of like Radiohead had no problem with Internet streaming because they were already radiohead.

Yeah, it's like, what's that service where you can like pay to get like cameo, cameo? Yeah, it's like that, right? Like where you get big enough, I can just pay me a couple hundred bucks on the right record, you have like a 30 second little personal message of happy birthday or something. Not a couple of those out in an hour.

Now you can do those without even doing that. You just have yourself, your likeness do it for you. I would not be shocked if that comes somewhere. That's something coming.

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They've got a free trial and a CLI with an MCP server. You can download the story experiment thing right now. Again, TigerData.com. I can't think of a clean segue into leaving the Python Steering Council.

Here's a segue. What if you just had an AI version of yourself that could just go do the Steering Council? Would you still be part of it at that point? That's not ready to transition at all.

No, I mean, you want to turn over. You don't want the same gray beard showing up or gray hair will make it more gender neutral, sorry. People running stuff. You want the new people to come in with some old people around who have inherent knowledge of how things ended up and why they're there.

They help keep things going without a dramatic shift, but you've got to let people come in and change the project as they want. You don't want stacked in a way that doesn't let fresh people come in and contribute. No, I would not want an AI version of me to be on forever. No, I know you wouldn't.

I was just trying to have some sort of way to make it a segue. So you're an rare company. Somebody who's had the means of power. You've had it in your hands.

You've had the power in your hands like George Washington. He let it go. You're an rarefied air here, Brad. You had power.

You just said, I don't want this power anymore. I'm going to let it go. It's been a couple of years now. Yeah, it's been two years since you've retired from the Steering Council.

Any regrets? Everyone back in? How's it working out? Regrets.

Regrets. No, I mean, so I was on the Steering Council from its inauguration through the first five years of its existence. It was great. It was great seeing friends of mine every week and having an excuse to hang out and to help out and all that stuff.

But when we were choosing our governance model, one of the things I suggested is that we had a term that specifically said we had to turn over. I didn't win that argument and there was enough going on. We were trying to make those decisions. I didn't press it.

It was more of an idea. But I decided to stick to it plus potential kid on the way. It was like, yeah, this is just a good time to just step back and let someone else come on and have that guaranteed slot to be open. So no, I don't have any regrets.

Would I ever do it again, possibly, given enough time? Once again, I think the kid would have to get a little older and just be able to focus a little bit more on it because it's one of those things that's kind of always, I don't know about YouTube, but my brain never shuts off. So it's always going back to my head. And so right now it's a lot of kid stuff and I want to make sure that it's not pushing kid stuff out of my head.

So I want the kid to be a little older before I do that. But like I do miss hanging out with the people on the stream because I'm luckily know what was personally, in some extent. So it was just a great excuse to hang out and just talk every week. Yeah, no, I don't know regrets.

Yeah, it was just a thing. I just stopped doing it and it was no weird anything. It's not like I felt like, oh my goodness, I don't have the power and words that I'm going to do is just, I mean, even when I was on it, I still had to go through the same process as everybody else. So it's not like I was anyway privileged for the stuff I wanted.

The closest I had further is I could ask my other string council members, I have this idea for something. What do you all think? And they could shoot it down a little earlier than somebody else. But everyone else can also still email the string council and ask the same questions.

So it's still not that privilege. I might just get response time that's faster. So yeah, no, it was it was fine. It was over to start solving it was just to time.

So I just have that time now to focus on other stuff. It's interesting to be in that position though. So what did you, if it didn't have a lot of power, what kind of lack of power did you, or I guess what kind of power did you share with everyone else in the community? Well, I mean, you have uniquely that was, you know, part of the string council.

I'm just saying from my perspective and not being on it anymore. My power wasn't unique. And the string council does have power as a whole, right? As a, as a council, right?

Because the steering council ultimately decides what path, what Python has, what roles get accepted for Python, right? And that drives which way language goes. So that's where its power comes from is its ability to make those kinds of steering decisions. But the council had enough workload when I was on it.

And I think it's a good sense that there's not a lot of, you know, we think we should steer things this way. There's no, like when we first started that, we thought, Oh, we'll have these grand plans and we'll try to spec out kind of where we want things to go long term and where we think it's a focus on, uh, not don't have the time enough stuff coming in from the community and other core dads asking for stuff that just there's not enough space to kind of come up with how to steer things. So we never even had to worry about that, right? So there's no power of like, you know, I want to make my thing go this way.

As a center council member, you have power in terms of having an opinion that people know matters to an extent, but it's not a, I'm going to drive this huge project. And only steering council can make it happen is just a council may almost can say yes or no. And that's really it's just a body that says yes or no for stuff that they get asked. What is the driving direction of the steering council?

Like when you is everyone voted in? Do you keep the seat and perpetuity? Do you want to let go of it? You know, what are some of those mechanics around, you know, being a part of it?

What does it do? Yeah. So the way I have always raised is the steering council's job is to effectively be the final decider of things related to the Python project. Really sum it up, right?

Like if there's any disagreements about how to handle something, deciding perhaps anything that we've just decided needs a final arbiter, the steering council is it, basically what Guido would have done previously for your time. Now how the mechanics work is we hold elections. There are five seats. Everyone goes up for election every year.

We call for candidates, you can self-nomate for candidacy or you can make someone else and actually do not have to be a core developer. You have to be nominated by a core developer. So you can actually have someone outside being nominated, but it's never happened. At least no one's ever been elected.