Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practice the spiritual rhythms and changes the world together. Hey leaders, Scott and I had the chance to interview one of the greatest leaders I've ever met. Our young adults pastor and my good friend, Dallas Viva.
Today we discuss with Dallas how to handle conflict with grace and truth. Perhaps there's conflict among your group members, perhaps it's with your co-leader. We discuss why it's important to handle this conflict with both grace and truth. How to mend relationships and how to shepherd your flock in the midst of turbulence.
Let's tune into today's episode. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. You just did that for young adults.
Yeah, I do it. If there's any other schedule or not, like two weeks ago, I just let us in a song like, just jump in and felt, felt it. Let's do it. You never know what's going to happen on a Thursday night or young adults service.
Well, for those that don't know, which might be a very small community, please share a bit about yourself, your role here at Mariners, your family, anything you'd love to share. Yeah. Well, hello leaders. My name's Dallas.
I get to be our young adults pastor. I've been a Mariners for just over six years. I'm born and raised in Orange County. So from North County, Yorba Linda area.
And I've been married at time of recording. We're a week away from my 10 year wedding anniversary. 10 years? That's still 10 years as well.
Yeah. So we have a six year old and a four year old, six year old boy, four year old girl, six year old loves baseball. I cannot get enough wakes up every morning. Hey, Google, tell me the scores and we'll go with all scores.
My daughter is like sweet into princesses. Girl, that era. It's awesome. But I used to be a worship pastor was a worship pastor before Mariners and kind of like a little bit of why I'm not in worship ministry.
A good friend of mine. A peer told me, Hey, Dallas, I think you were really gifted leader who happens to know how to play music. Oh, that was actually the kindest thing you could say to me. And then I started having this moment of prayer.
Got him so frustrated at all the people who leave early. It frustrates my heart. They leave early from service and I can't connect with any of them. So God, if you could give me a job where I stand at the exit doors and I get to connect with people.
Mariner's calls by boss at the time was like, Hey, so you're rolling the weekend. You're going to stand outside the exit doors and you're going to get people connected. God, you literally word for word answered my prayer. So that led me into adult ministry started off with singles ministry and just small groups and then we built young adults ministry and now that's what I'm primarily doing is young adults.
We have a service every Thursday for young adults at 7 p.m. and it's a really beautiful service. Beautiful what God is doing last year and a half since we've had it. Dallas, you're a gift.
We're really blessed to have you part of the team. You're a very strategic systematic leader. But one of the things I also love about you is that you're a shepherd. You love the cycling people equipping and encouraging the saints and shepherding people.
Even when it's difficult, I mean young adults that age range, it's challenging. It's 20 to 30s. Yeah. And so I just wanted to know like, why is it important to shepherd and disciple people of all right, of all of these ranges, even when it's difficult, even when it's challenging.
Yeah. I mean, that's what we're called to do. So my job, my job descriptions, Ephesians, and Coped of Saints, which is really when you understand that word is mending. So we're mending them back to a whole relationship with God, like restoring.
And then you look back over your life, like all of our lives. There's been people who've made impact, right? There's people who have shepherded us. There's people who have come to us.
There's people who have helped us in shepherding. My life has looked like a bunch of different things. I've had the shepherd who has the rod inside, get in line. Like that's for a season.
That's good. I've had other shepherds here. Just let me sit. Let me talk.
Let me listen. Like cried out. So I've had different shepherds and just how impactful a good shepherd has been in my life. And that's what God has called me to do.
And sometimes the hardest conversations that we have as leaders, this is everybody listening to all our leaders. Sometimes the hardest conversations we have are the most loving conversations. So I love when someone after I have to have a hard conversation, a shepherding conversation, like an alignment conversation. They might be frustrated in the moment, but I've had people come back weeks months later and say, thank you so much for loving me enough to call this out me.
Thank you for loving me enough. No one has loved me enough to call this out and to shepherd me and to guide me in better because of it. I couldn't see it in the moment, but I see it now. And those are the moments that I love.
Like people getting closer to Jesus. I would say helping people find their redemptive potential. Like there's so much more God is not done with you. God still wants to work in you, which leads me to young adults.
Like if I can help them figure some things out that took me a little bit longer in life, I can help them figure it out now. Imagine the impact for decades and generations to come. That's so good. And I think for the leaders listening, they may hear that and think, gosh, I'm a little apprehensive about having those alignment conversations with maybe the people in my group or the people that I'm serving alongside.
Can you help us kind of frame our mindsets as to why it's important when we have those conversations to have grace and truth? Because when we don't have one or the other, it can steer the conversation in a way that, you know, isn't conducive to a good conversation. So why is it important to have grace and truth? Yeah, it's kind of like an airplane.
There's two wings. You have to balance each other out. So imagine if I am your leader and all I do is just grace, grace, grace, grace, like everything you're doing, everything you're doing is grace, grace, grace, grace, so great. It actually, it'll actually create dysfunctional relationships.
Like it's just, it's just good. So two words that will use interchangeably will be care and candor. So if I just care, care, care, care, care, and I can't do with them and have the truth side is a dysfunctional relationship. Now flip it.
What if it's a polar opposite? What if I have so much truth and there's no care involved? It creates a distant relationship. Now, when I see someone coming, like all they do is just speak truth without love.
Like there's no grace. They're calling out everything I'm doing. I never do anything right now. When they walk by, I start walking the other way.
I distance myself. So it creates a distant relationship. So when you balance grace and truth, like there has to be both. When you balance those, it creates a growing relationship developing.
So there's dysfunctional. There's distant. There's developing. Like the three types of relationships.
So having those moments, but I think the question you have to dive into is how do I know if I'm able to have those conversations, right? So we can talk about that. Do I have the right? Who has the right to have those conversations?
Yeah. Tell us more about that. Like if you about those tough conversations, some tips on having those conversations and so forth. Something that I learned is if I'm there, sometimes you can get like heated and emotional in these site and I'm trying not to ever make sure I'm heated and emotional in next, then I start thinking not clearly at all.
So it's making sure that I have this right standing in my mind of saying, Jesus help me see this person about how this hard conversation with the same way that you see them. Like your blood covers them the same way that it covers me. I'm not jumping on a high horse here. So it's making sure we're there.
And then there is a leadership principle. Same. You know, we've talked about this before. It's from John Maxwell, the five levels of leadership.
So understanding where you were at. So for all leaders, this is you. If you if you have gone through the leadership process, we have given you the title of leader. You have the lowest level of leadership, which is position.
You have the title. Whenever I walk on stage and it says my title Dallas Young and Olds Pastor, even to all the people that I don't know, I have a level of authority leadership just in my title. And then I can have those and the next level would be like relationships. So I'm being I have a relationship with people so I can go and have hard conversations and then it kind of moves.
Okay, people see something in me. Like they see the see what I produce as a leader. And then they then they begin to follow me. And so it's like the fourth level.
Whoa, I'm seeing fruit in my life. And the last one fifth level is like pinnacle. Dallas, I'm following you. You've helped me.
And now I'm taking these learnings and giving them to other people now live. So understanding as a leader, you have that positional authority to have hard conversations in your group. We have given you the title of leader in your group and you can have those hard conversations. Now, if you're going to do that without God's guidance, like that's a whole other whole other thing.
You got to bring God's guidance in there. That's why you should have a coach. Everybody's a coach, someone in your corner who's going to help you process this even just this week at a hard conversation with someone and I don't make my own decisions like just by myself. So actually reinded John Thomas, a cyberscrapaster.
I was like, here's what I'm here's what's going through my mind is I just had this hard conversation. Can you help me process? Am I am I doing this the right way? Please call something out in me.
And so we got to talk through that. Hey, next time do this. Hey, this was really good. So he had, he had grace and truth when I went to him.
That was beautiful as well. I needed. Yeah, I mean, really that's the model that Jesus gave us, right? And the approach of both grace and truth.
You know, when there's conflict within the group, we know, we say that groups are messy. Oftentimes, or sometimes there's conflict between two people in a group. Yeah. How would you navigate through some of those conversations and how to mediate that?
Yeah. I think there's a there's an idea of, especially these new leaders right now, you're coming out of rooted and kind of have like this honeymoon phase and my group can take on hell with the swirga right now. Like we're going to read our Bible, the entire Bible next week. There's just this excitement.
There's this energy. And then there comes disillusionment. Oh, this is not what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be like this disillusionment hits with conflict.
So what we can do is you can lean away from disillusionment. And then that leads to detachment of the group or you lean into disillusionment, address it in most times that leads to strength. So conflict within two members. I'm always going to God's word.
So what does God's word say about this? Matthew 18. There's kind of a three step principle in there. And the whole point is restoring each other.
So I'm not, I'm not like, Hey guys, so welcome, let's do some highs and lows. Now, let's address the elephant in the room and you two are going to talk it out in group time. But it's actually having them go outside of group time. Matthew 18 is go to that person one on one, have that conversation.
I would be coaching both of those people. Hey, help. I want you to see them the same way Jesus sees them. The same way Jesus sees you.
So helping them get that right level understanding one on one. Most of the time that works almost every time that works. And most of the time it's a, Oh, I thought you were, I thought you meant this. Well, I thought you meant this.
And most of the time when I'm giving coaching for people to do that, I would say speak from your feelings, not from you to this. Well, you, you disrespected me. Well, now the gloves are on. So helping the people in your group is going to help them not just in their group.
So what we do with discipleship, not just discipling them for their roles at church or in a group, but it's going to carry over into every aspect of their life. So your leadership of someone in your group is going to impact what they do outside of the church. They're going to take these principles everywhere. So helping them say, Hey, when this was said, I felt, I felt disrespected.
And most of the time, I'm so sorry, I did not, I was not my intention to make you feel disrespected. Most of the time that's how it works. If it doesn't, then you go, like bring two or three people leader. That's when you get involved.
And you're just, Hey, if you guys work this out, if you guys had a conversation, have you met in person to see body language? And then, like, if step two doesn't work with two or three people, you're leader involved, then you bring it to the church. And this is where you're getting your coach in. This is where you're getting, you know, maybe a pastor involved.
Some people think like this is where we get on stage and we address it. We're not going to get on stage and address it. And we're not talking about you and your groups behind your back and stuff. We can either.
So that's kind of how I would coach and guide people in those two. And, you know, if it became a thing where the whole group was involved, I'd have a moment like, Hey, they resolved it. I would love for them to kind of share just whatever level it's at in the group. I want to match that same energy.
That's good. You know, you talked about Matthew 18 and there are levels to those conversations. And to your point, a lot of those conversations can be sorted out with that one on one discussion. Sometimes it's a misunderstanding.
Sometimes it's like people think there's beef or conflict without even having had a conversation yet. It's all been through text. It's all been over social media through email. And then once they have that discussion time, it's like, Oh, this really wasn't even a thing.
Let's take it a step further. Let's do it. I thought we were doing a deep dive. Plug for deep dive in the fall.
What if there's conflict between you and your co leader, which I'm sure you've never seen before. No, of course not. But what steps would you take to resolve that conflict? What tips would you give to both of the leaders that are listening?
I think it's pretty much it's the same, but recognizing the weight of what it is. If you two as leaders can't see, I don't expect your group to have any form of unity growth. If you guys can't figure it out. And as leaders, we all have targets on our back, meaning people watch us.
When I'm out in public, people watch how I parent my kids. People watch how I interact with my wife. I'm just so aware not because I want to be perfect, but this is me living out my sanctification. The people in your group are watching how you do this.
So a couple of things is like understanding Proverbs 51, a software turns away wrath and a harsh word stirs up anger. So meaning if you and your co leader are doing it out, you need to pray. You need to pray and make sure that before you go into a conversation with them, you don't come in heated. And if you are like the leader in it, Oh, you're just my co leader.
That could be one of the biggest mistakes you could make. I really want to use my title as my authority. So back to the five levels of leadership. If I just authority title is the lowest level.
I want to go through. Hey, I have this relationship with you. That's that's where I want to call this out and have this and making sure you're praying through it. And also, if you if you and your co leader have issues and there's many times it's one person has the issue and the other person is unaware as many times what it is like, although driving me crazy and the other person just live in their life because they have no idea.
Silence means approval. So if you're frustrated and you just let it fester for months and months and months, silence to your co leader means approval. So they're not, they're mind like, nothing's nothing's going on. Problems left unaddressed.
They kind of have the snowball effect and it just goes larger and larger and larger. They gain the game momentum. The longer you wait to do something to greater odds of it, like just never happening. And then you kind of just put things down.
It pressurizes. So the next time they do something you just blow up. So getting to it quick, talking through it, speaking from your emotions and feelings and not trying to like you did this. You have to think of who's on the other side of this conversation, which is all the people that you lead.
I think that's where I would say conflict between leaders is is so much more important to resolve quickly because of all the people watching you. As a leader, how are they going to do this? How is this going to work out? I would say for leaders, it's that much more important.
Man, this has been a great conversation so fruitful and so practical for our leaders that have been listening. Would love for you to just close this out by sharing what God is doing on Thursday nights and, you know, given invitation to the young adults that are listening. Everything that's going on in 20 30s college. How is God moving on Thursday nights?
Yeah, it's like that passage in Ephesians more than you could ask or imagine. It seems like every Thursday I live in that. So what also with what Thursdays have done in my life, my thing of the song, which anyway, my whole life has changed in a very good context. There's the voice.
There it is. Just how much my life has changed because of it as the way I follow Jesus has changed the more I do Thursday nights and more realize like I'm so weak and I need his strength. There's no way I could do it on my own. So I'm so thankful for the whole team, this disciples team, all of our leaders in the groups world, we can do it without without them, without you.
I'm so grateful for the reliance upon Jesus of a week without him. I can't do it. It's not on my own. So what the Lord is doing in my own heart, but also what God is doing in the room on Thursday night.
I'm a strategic leader, like Scott said, like I love data like moving things around, seeing growth patterns. From June, 2024 to June 2025, we saw an 86% growth, which is crazy. And then here we are in the month of July and we've seen a growth of like 400 people in July, it makes no sense. Our small groups have grown by about 60%.
So it's not just a big gathering, which is really cool, but as people are getting into biblical community, we're launching, we launched 75 root groups in the last 12 months. Just for young adults, we're on more college campuses. We're launching rooted at UCI, which people are like, I don't know if you can do that. We did it.
So we have a great relationship with UCI. We've launched it. We've had like baptisms. I mean, it's amazing what God is doing and the favor that he has over this ministry right now.
And we're just kind of watching it. God, we're just here. We're happy to be here. Hands open.
I always tell our team we're freeway signs. Like, don't get all the glory, like point people to Jesus. No one's driving around like, man, that's a really cool freeway. I almost stop right here on the 405 and just take a picture of this freeway sign is not about that is about pointing people to the final destination.
So if you were young adult 20s 30s, would love to invite you to Thursday night. It's really amazing what God is doing. Come, come see, come be refreshed, come be prayed for, come be a part of the community, come find a place to belong. Yeah, that was we celebrate just everything that's happening in Thursday nights and I have a 19 year old and so really it's that age range is such a dear age range to my heart.
And it's also just the work that you and your team has been doing pouring into the young adults. We're cheering you guys on and we're just so thankful for you Dallas and just also for this talk as well, talking about how to handle conflict with grace and truth and God's word says that we're shepherds of God's flock that is under our care. He's our chief shepherd over his under shepherds and we have to steward what God has given to us and so really appreciate all your wisdom and the courageous steps that you've given to all of our leaders to take. And so Dallas, could you close us one word of prayer for our life group leaders for courage, wisdom and how we can handle and manage sometimes the conflicts that arise in our group.
So yeah, it's right. Jesus, we thank you. You are a great shepherd and we all are sheep going to this the same shepherd, but also you have made us shepherds of your sheep to so God, would you give us wisdom? Would you give us guidance?
Would you give us boldness? Would you give us grace? Would you give us truth? Holy Spirit?
Would you illuminate your word in our hearts and our mind? Would you give us truth as we handle conflict? Father, would we see all your people as the same way you see them. They're made in your image.
Your blood covers them the same way that it covers us. So as we coach people who are having conflict as we ourselves enter conflict, may we do it in step with you. Would you lead us? Would you guide us?
Would you give us boldness and grace and truth to have these conversations? And I pray that your people get to experience the beauty that comes when we lean into hard conversations and the stronger relationships that are formed afterwards. We love you. We thank you for what you are doing in our midst.
Join me, bring him in. Amen. Thanks, Dallas. Viva la Vida.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.