Hard new world — our post-American future, with Hugh White and Allan Behm

Under Donald Trump's second presidency, America's retreat from global leadership has been swift and erratic. With Russia's war in Ukraine still raging on Europe's doorstep, and China and India on the move, how is the international rules based order being reshaped? And how should Australia position itself in this dangerous, volatile, hard new world?This conversation was recorded at the Australian National University on Tuesday 17 June 2025.SpeakersHugh WhiteEmeritus Professor of Strategic Studies, Australian National UniversityAuthor, Quarterly Essay #98, Hard new world: Our Post-American Future, as well as The China Choice, How to Defend Australia, and three previous Quarterly Essays: Power Shift, Without America and Sleepwalk to WarFounding Director of the Australian Strategic Policy InstituteAllan BehmSenior Advisor International & Security Affairs Program, the Australia Institute