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Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. This is such a good one. You know, this is a guest who I wanted on since I started this podcast and I'm such a fan. It is Hayley Williams, a beautiful artist, an incredible singer, songwriter. You might know her from the band Paramore, but she's out with her third solo album, Ego Death at the Bachelorette Party.
And she's just so special and we had such a good time. And we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff today. We're gonna talk about working with David Byrne. We're gonna talk about, you know, Wayne's World and how important of a movie it is. We're gonna talk about being short, pros and cons.
And we're gonna warm up and warm down because that's what a person does when they take care of their voice. But most importantly, we're gonna start this podcast like we always do. We're gonna talk to someone who knows Hayley Williams and knows her well. And today we have Doug Peck. Now Doug Peck is a musical director, a teacher, voice teacher, if you will.
He's also a trained musician and pianist and he works with Hayley to get her voice just right. And I know him in a very special way too. So let's find out what that is. And let's get Doug on the line. Hi, Doug.
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Download the Walmart app or head to Walmart.com and get your gifts delivered fast, subject to availability, terms and fees apply. Hi my queen, it's so good to see you. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to talk to you. Thank you so much for doing this. I mean, Doug, we could do an entire episode on your life, your talent.
How did we meet? We met through our buddies, Katherine Hahn and Rashida Jones. Both their episodes are so good. We're two years ago at the Christmas season. We thought it would be fun to do some Christmas music together at Rashida's house.
And you walked in and you're like, hi, and we instantly found it to a beautiful rapport. You're so beautifully saying all the alto parts of all the Christmas carols we sang. I'll never forget you saying, it feels like the song is on some distant shore and where the boat that's pulling away from it. Altos, give it up for Altos. Pour one out for Altos.
Well, I realized we were like, we want to put together a choir because we were feeling like we wanted to do something communal and for the community. And then Katherine said, I'm working with this incredible person named Doug. And then I realized much later, it was like saying, I know this woman named Julia Child, she's gonna come and teach us how to make a chicken. Like we had the best of the best. We're so lucky.
Thanks, Katherine, for introducing us. Speaking of Julia Child, maybe let's get your head voice one. Okay, Julia Child, okay. So Doug, what should I do? Thank you.
Can you give up a girl acting class? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. And then show us a little siren from low in your range to high in your range back to low in your range. Ooh.
Good. Can you roll your shoulders while you do that and keep yourself nice and comfy? Oh, my God, my shoulders. Oh, I forget, I have shoulders. I'm running them over the room so they can relax.
Doug is a good shoulder. And not in a creepy way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Never, never. I'm sorry, I'm on the shoulder.
Ooh. Really good. I'm looking for that. She's using her voice. I know.
Actually, one of Haley's favorite warmups. Can you do? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Doug has a piano right under, I can't believe you have a piano. Doug has a piano right there.
Amazing. This is the first on Good Hang. Someone has a piano right below frame. OK, so this is one of Haley's. OK, go ahead.
Can you give it to me again, Doug? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Great, Dobby. How does that feel?
That is Haley's favorite warmup. We have a whole list of things. I've seen photos of you guys together and the way that you use breasts. I mean, I want to talk to her a lot about that today. Her voice is one of my favorites.
I think when I found out you guys worked together, I kind of freaked out. And that's what I felt working with her for the first time. It was like, you're going to go do a session with Haley Whiz. It was like, great. I'm going to learn as much as she is.
What was that first session like? It was total love at first sight. Haley is especially when someone's as incredible as she is, when they're such an open student and a student of life and just everything I've ever said to her. I feel like she just sponges it in. And she remembered something I said three years ago.
And we'll make a great sound. And she'll be like, oh, that reminds me of where we're going for the errors to her. And I like how that one sounded. Let's work on that again. And she's always willing to work on what she's great at, as well as what doesn't come as easily to her.
And she's such a cat-recoran. She's always ready to climb that next mountain. And this new album of hers is so incredible. It's so good. I know I have so many good.
Did you hear any of it when it was being like, did she come in and say, I'm working on this song. I'm going to practice this song with you? Yes. And then she just dropped down the couch. She was like, yeah, I got like two new songs.
I was like, yeah, I do. And then she was like, something's really low. We should work on that. I was like, I cannot wait, Haley, let's go. Oh, well, so that's interesting to me.
Like a singer knows, OK, I'm going to have to perform these. And I'm going to have to work on figuring out how to get my voice to sing these all the time. That's right. And sometimes when they record, they've never done it live all the way through. And our sessions are the first amazing time.
I'm so lucky where you're like, OK, start at the beginning and sing it through and pick which backgrounds you want to do and which ad libs you want to do. And sometimes even great people are like, whoa, this doesn't feel at all like it felt on the record. Let's find what you do it live. And that's just such a joy. I always think about that.
And I want to ask her. And I think she was very, has spoke about it in a really funny way, which is you write a song in your 20s that you then have to sing 10 years later. And it's a note that's like, you know, what I want to do? Or whatever. And it's like, damn, you got to hit that.
I bet you regrets it. We've like taught that. I'm really proud of her because that was one that wasn't always in the paramour performances. And she was determined to get it back in the set. We worked totally 360 on it with both the vocals and her confidence.
How do you work on that? How do you work? And what does that know? By the way, Doug, let's hear that on the piano. What's that note?
She's seen a flaps and a B in that piece, top of really chesty belt and chesty belt. Oh, there's so much chest voice in it. And it's from the goal. And she gets her whole body behind it. And we worked on having her look up to her friends and the first balcony and have her whole throat be open while she makes those sounds, knowing in her eyes that she's going to cross it when she takes the breath to do it.
And then we're watching the reward and watching the audience reaction. It's just so satisfying. She also does a lot of vocal cool downs. So after the show, we warm her voice back down and help it relax, which helps her with the next night. And helps her take a second to say, oh, yeah, I did do that really well tonight.
I did use the proper technique to sing that. And also we've had fun days where she's like, yeah, I just wanted to scream. So I screamed that one. Help me help me help me. Help me like get my voice back.
Yeah. Because after all, or rocks are. Yeah. I mean, it's I want to ask her about it. Just the idea that you have to keep your voice.
I mean, I just, you know, when you lose your voice, you lose the show. The show is over. It's really an intense stress. What do you do? How do you help people not lose their voice?
We have straws. We have straws in water. We do. Wait, what do straws do? You take a straw which gets proper closure and back pressure at your vocal folds.
You have one. Somebody get me a straw. Somebody get me a vocal or a straw. Somebody get me a straw. Watch this.
I need a straw. There's no straw in here. I mean, we'll never gonna find a straw. OK, so you get a straw. Or you're gonna send me a straw.
OK, OK. Oh my god, there's a straw flying in. Jenna has a straw. Incredible. Is it a metal straw?
Is it a metal straw? OK. It could be fine. It doesn't matter what it's made of. Because all you young people want the straws to be metal now.
So can't find a paper one. And do you have a little liquid in that mug you got there? I do. Is there even a spill it if you blow bubbles into it? Or is it like half?
No, no bubbles into it. Stick the straw in there. OK. And just blow bubbles. Now do the same thing with the tones while you blow.
Ooh. Oh my god, people are doing so bubbles. That's the big thing with you and cooldown to help the voice reset. It's like a little massage for the vocal cords after heavy use. You know, it's so amazing.
Now, honestly, having a podcast, I've realized I see what it does, even just talking when it does two-year vocal cords. And they need a lot of love. Well, we can help you come up with a warm up and a cool down before our taping days. I'd love to do that with you. Doug, listen, I'd love that.
And I'd also love to make every guest watch me do it and make them very uncomfortable while I take my time doing it. You know? OK, so Haley is coming in today. And I hope I don't, as the kids say, glaze her too hard. But I just, I love her.
You probably will. I know I will. I love her. What do you think is a question that I should ask Haley today that she doesn't get asked or that you'd want to hear, or you think it would be a good thing for us to talk about? OK, I thought too.
So you could decide if you want to do one or else. One, you know how Batman has the bat symbol in the sky? If there was going to be a symbol in the sky to summon Haley Williams, what would it be? What an incredible question. So creative.
And then the other one is, you know everybody has like what's your last meal? I want to know what is the last song she wants to hear before she dies. I mean, so emotional. Yeah, welcome. And what is the last song you want to hear before you die?
Whoa, that's a heavy. I have the answer too. I bet you'll know the other one. That's so cool. I mean, I want to think about that for myself too.
I know the ones I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear like elevator music or like the sound of a carousel. I don't think I want to hear. I don't want to be bored. I don't want to feel like a clown.
As I finish, you have worked with a lot of great women. Yes. Who have you had the privilege to work with? You know, some days, Amy, I'm like, oh, it's an all-girls schedule. I'm so happy.
So it could be a Catherine Han, Patty LaPone, Billy Eilish, Haley Williams, and working with Stevie Bridgers a lot lately. Oh, you're working with her today, not to brag, but you told me that. That is true. Thank you for making the scheduling work. We'll work around Phoebe.
That's a good question. I'm working with Rico Nasty these days, and Lauren Mayberry from churches, and lots of up and coming people, including by the way, Haley is the biggest music fan in the world, and she's always scouting. And everyone else, she'll discover somebody, and she'll tell me, or she'll tell me, or she'll tell her manager to tell me, like, make sure to tell her that person, because we want that person to start getting ready to tour and sing all the time. So some of the great people you haven't quite heard of yet, but you will. I just didn't record her tiny, yes concert today, Annie Derusso.
Oh my gosh, wow, that's exciting. Well, I love you. I love seeing you. I miss you very much. I hope we get, you know, we should let everybody know that our choir is called The Something Something Singers, and we did two shows.
We did it for the Motion Picture Academy, the retirement home in LA, and we did it for LA Children's Hospital. Can I show you my Haley Williams tattoo? Oh, yes. Oh, that is Haley Williams on stage with the AERS who are spitting in the air in her trans rights top. I was like, I've not got this one so much.
So Doug, you know, we don't ever get any talented pianists here. So could you finish our time by just playing us out? I'm going to give you a little bit of true believer, which is my favorite on this record. True believer. Here we go.
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Haley Williams is here. So happy that you're here. Oh my god. I feel like I've waited for my whole career, my whole life. I've been making music for 20 years so that I could finally get to you.
Well, you know what? This is, I'm blushing because you are, when we made this podcast, we were talking about dream guests and you were one of them. Oh my god. I really don't know what to say to that. OK, well, you better figure it out.
Because we're rolling out. We're rolling out. No, we were talking about having you on today. And OK, I'm kind of nervous. I'm so good.
I'm so good. I'm so good. Thank you so much. And as the kids say, I'm going to, I'm just going to glaze you. I'm going to do some amazing glaze.
It's going to be a glaze festival because you're on some kind of tour right now. Well, basically a promo. I mean, this has been really nice. I feel like I've only had to do the stuff that's been like I've really felt excited to do. But it's like being on camera.
It's just, I just like I'm on the internet all the time. So I won't be on tour until next year. And by that time, hopefully I have a dumb phone. And I just don't see the internet or. Yeah, how do you feel?
I mean, your Jen has an interesting relationship with the internet. Yeah. It is like a love-hate relationship, basically. It is a love-hate. I'm really addicted to it.
Me too. It sucks. I feel like I thought maybe my generation was more addicted than you guys. Really? You guys are the most?
Well, I mean, how old was I when my mom was a teacher? So I was a public school teacher. My mom was a public school teacher. Like you grew up going to her classrooms and stuff? It was the best.
OK, what kind of teacher was your mom? Back then, she was teaching elementary school like second and third grade. And I never, she was never my teacher. But I went to that school. And it's funny to have your mom as a teacher in the school.
Did you hang out at the school afterwards? Yeah, we often got there early if we were going in with her. We'd stay after. And you kind of like see the other teachers after school, which is a trip. It's like mean girls when they see Tina at the mall.
They keep getting to the team at the mall. Yeah, it really is like that. I really resonated with me deeply. I know it does feel like you're like peeking behind the cards. Yeah.
And I don't look at the wizards. Right. OK, when you came in, you asked about a mutual friend that we have. Yes. So we do have a mutual friend.
And he's the most loveliest guy ever. His name is what is this? We have a thing on the show where we, at the beginning of each episode, we can talk well behind our guests back. And we talk to somebody who knows them and get a question from them to ask you. And we talk to Doug Peck today.
You did? And he gave me a vocal warm up for us to do. Shut your mouth. This is the best day of my life. OK.
And I kind of forget what he said. OK, maybe I can pick up on it. But he also amazingly had a piano right under frame for these guys to play. I was like, I'm excited to talk to Haley. And he's like, OK, he gave us one of your favorite warmups.
Is that like, well, I think it's like, I'm free to do it. But it was like, oh, yo, it's like with your belly. Because I really have trouble connecting to my diaphragm sometimes. He asked me, how was your body feeling? And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
OK, so let's do it. OK, so yeah, so feel your belly kind of bounce when you. OK, and then you can add notes to it. So like, it really wakes up this whole like everything. It does.
It really helps. We were just talking today about you. And I mean, there's just, it's hard to not start with. your voice, because your voice to me, and here comes the glaze. Your voice to me is...
Get prepared for me. It is its own country. It's like it has such incredible history. Like I feel like I've been a fan of it and you and you're worked for so long and I've watched it change and I've watched it. And what I love about this new record, which I love from the ego death at a bachelorette party, is the way you kind of play around with your voice in my opinion, in a confident way as someone who feels like they're ready to just kind of like see where their voice goes and play around with it.
So I guess my first question to you is, when did you form a relationship with your voice? Well, that's a cool question to think about. I think, young, I was remembering this not too long ago and I think this must be it. I would go to church with my mom, with my family as a kid and I was a very anxious, stressed out little kid. And then my mom and I kind of, you know, she was in a not great marriage, it was my mom's second marriage.
And I think I just had anxiety a lot. So we'd go to church and everyone would sing out of the hymnal and they're not fun songs to sing, right? Sure. You know, it's boring when you're a kid, especially. Right.
But I noticed that my stomach ache would go away. And I couldn't explain it, but I just, I started singing, I started singing more to the hymns along with the hymns at church and it just soothed me. You know, like, I think it grounded me and it slowed me down. And then obviously, you know, all these many, many years later and everything that I love to learn about the body. And especially what do you like, body keeps the score type stuff?
I'm really interested in that. And reading about how the voice can tone the vagus nerve in which controls so much of this, this anxiety stuff and how we regulate. It makes perfect sense, but I intuited that as a, I must have, I mean, God, I must have been like eight or nine years old. It's so interesting. Even just doing that thing we just did, right?
Like even the exhalation of breath, even that is, it is major when you actually do it, you realize, oh, I've been holding my breath. Oh my God, yes. I mean, and I do a lot of sighing around the house. And I just think that was my personality like, you know, as if I was over it. But I was just an exhalation of anxiety.
That was just basically it. I was just trying to get some breath out. And you were soothing yourself, like your system by doing it. Yeah, it's, I love that science. I just, that's endlessly fascinating.
And Doug, because he's a somatic voice coach, we do so many things that I think, if you've never done that kind of work from the outside would look really weird. And I get up and I move around a lot during our lessons. You're making me think of two things. One, which is I often say and have said on this podcast, like when I get to a party and I'm anxious, I like to dance and I realize it's a horse. I like to just do exactly that kind of thing, like shake it out.
That's good. You have written a lot of songs where you have to just like get to this note that maybe you wrote 20. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in some versions, like, okay, I could, you know, I got to get to it.
And I was saying to Doug, like it's really hard to, it's like a high dive where everyone's, you know, and I'm thinking specifically of a couple of moments like, Oh, I wanted, yeah, I wanted the anxiety. Okay, but you, that's Doug. But talk to us about like, for example, the journey of, for people who don't know, there's an amazing song, a pair more song. And it hits a note that is like so satisfying for you to get what is, what is the note of that? Is it a, I actually don't know.
Doug knows. Hey, hey, usually my, my sweet spot of like, not too high and I can do, keep doing this throughout the show is around a sea, see an E above middle C, which is like, so if middle C is in the middle, it's in the piano, you're like right here. So could you, could you whisper that sound? You don't have to sing it. So is it like, like from the song?
No, but it's like, yeah. Well, I don't have perfect pitch. So I don't think I can like, what? I don't think I can pick it out of the, out of thin air, but let's just guess and the dog can be at home. And he can tell us I was wrong.
I had a laptop too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's the, what's the note we want? We want C above middle C. Because I didn't even know that exists.
I think E is kind of where I end up belting a lot of Paramore songs, but I think all I wanted might be higher than that. And that's why it's always scared me because it's just my muscle memory. Just one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four, one, two. It's gotta be higher than that. See about middle C, but I think that E, I think that E is the one, why won't try E above middle C?
Yes, E above middle C. Let's go higher. Let's go higher. I'm just gonna catch on fire. Okay, here we go.
E above middle C. I think this is it. Okay. No, that's a lower one. That's a lower one.
That's mid piano note. I'm so sorry. Why do I think all I want, I think all I want is higher than this. Wow, yeah. You did it too.
Come to a voice lesson. Let's get this down. Okay, so you, but you, the journey of, and I thank you for letting me digress into this before we come back. But talk about like, so you've got this note, for example, a note like that. And you're driving to it, and you want to sing it on tour, and you're deciding like, okay, I want to make sure I'm gonna bring this back in.
And how do you then train for that moment? Oh, I mean, a lot of warming up and warming down after shows. I've already, I've already heard about warming down. Do you ever do it? Like do you know, I'm learning.
I should really help. Okay. No, I did, maybe for a few years in my life when I took piano, but I got so bored with the theory part. I just wanted to play shit that I wanted to sing along to. So it's really, I really regret it when I listened to someone like the talk about theory and spout off these, you know, this stuff that's so inherent to him as an artist.
And as a teacher, it's like, dang, I really should have stayed in piano lessons, but. It feels like everybody who quit feels that way. Like it would have been cool if I just kept showing along with the flute, I would have been such a badass. I read, can you play any instruments? No.
I can play a few chords and guitar, like a song or two in the piano, and I used to play flute when I was a kid. You did. Yes, and imagine if I could flute a chic. I mean, maybe, but you know what I liked about the flute? The most embarrassing part.
What? Cleaning it. Cleaning it. I'm so sorry. But for those girls, you could take it at the end.
You were like, I played it and look, I didn't like it. I didn't take it apart. I didn't take it unscrew it. And you had to clean all the parts and do special brushes, and you put it back in the flute case and you're like, no, it's clean. Is this translate to other parts of your life?
Do you like to clean and organize? Oh, yeah, very much so. Wow. Very much so. It's like a way to quiet and the tiktaki of my brain is just like, well, it's clean.
And it's in the box. I gotta take that up. OK, so little Haley's singing in church, then you know how to play guitar at piano. How do you learn that? Now I know how to play guitar, but back then, you know, I saw one video of Zach Hansen on the television when I was a kid.
And I was like, no, I gotta play drums. And I, yeah, I started playing eventually and I would play a church. You know, like, I think my experience of music when I was living in Mississippi was just so much at church because no friends, I didn't know anyone at school that wanted to play music. But, you know, there was access to instruments and things at the church. So anybody who tends to go.
And you're when you're a teen? Yeah. Kind of changed everything. That kind of blew my world open. I mean, I met Zack, who's our drummer, the first day of this homeschool program that my mom put me in.
I tried to go to public school. I was such a nerd. I really got bullied, so I didn't make it very long here. It's okay. When I think about it now, I'm like, it was my mom and I were on such an adventure.
We had run away from Mississippi. This was like, you know, the great wide world. And I didn't really, again, I got to this public school and I was like, well, now these, there's like one golf kid at the school that like will talk to me about music and that was it. And then I met Zach the first day of this other program and he was like, you gotta come here, I mean, my brother's band and he's younger than me. And I'm going like, oh, there are people my age that like to make stuff.
And they see the world a little differently. And I'm not crazy. I think it's always tender when bands come together, that first part because it's like, what do you like? What do you like? And you guys were especially young.
We were so little. Who did you, you know, you kind of trade bands with each other to just taste? Who did you guys both like say that you liked, you know? In those early years, like. I think Zach already had this, he already knew of a different world of music that I was not exposed to yet.
And he kind of showed me that. And it was bands like Failure. It was bands like, and you will know us by the Trail of Dead. You know, like it was hum who were playing shows next year. I just found out.
I probably won't get to see them because I'll probably be on tour. But when you're in tour, you can't do anything. Even like you bring out a band that you love that you want to hang out and watch and you're just like warming up while they're on stage, you know? So, yeah. But Zach just loved, I mean, Zach is the reason that I knew Elliot Smith's music as a really young kid.
And, you know, I remember him making me mix CD. So I got such a cool education really fast. He had two older brothers that also liked cool music. A lot of people learn their music from their older siblings. I didn't have any older siblings.
I'm in this. I'm an eldest daughter. Yeah, I knew it. Oh my God. I had to have a corn too.
I heard you come a record. Earth's animal Virgo Moon. Ooh, I have a real moon. That's why I have this podcast. Oh my God, it makes so much sense.
I must get a lot of attention. So, for people who don't know, like you met the people that would become members or founders of Paramore when you were a teeny tiny baby in high school. And you've been with this band for 20 plus years, touring all the time, making records all the time. And this record is your third solo record. And what is so interesting to me and getting back to a question about your voice is what is the difference between being a, the lead singer in a band out on stage performing and being a part, being yourself performing without the band behind you?
Is that not the million dollar question? I do not know. Right? Because it's a completely different set of skills almost. I'm very, I'm finding myself, cause we're planning shows for next year.
I'm finding myself really nervous. Cause I think I form, for my own good, really need to understand who I am outside of the band. Like it's time I'm like, I'm looking at 40. It's not that many years away. And I'm just like, I should probably know who I am outside of this entity.
And I'm really, I'm very excited for shows. And I do think that it might possibly subvert some people's expectations of, you know, what they think they're gonna get when they see me on a stage. What do you think people think they're gonna get? I think that with Paramore, I feel, and especially in the later years, like more recently, there's been some kind of thing I've noticed, feeling I've noticed that I very much feel like a ringleader. And that's not always a positive thing.
I feel that like, it's a huge responsibility to be a mouthpiece for a group of people. That's right. We're all very different individuals. And like, I want to speak for myself. Yeah, that's what I'm noticing.
I love that. And it's also, I have a version of a similar experience in that when I was in a sketch group coming up. I read about this. And I was the only girl. And not that that matters, but it's something.
It's totally matters. There's something. So I really get it that you want to then decide, okay, that's something I've practiced and done, and I want to try something. Yes, yeah. I feel like I'm really enjoying this part of my career, because I actually feel like for the first time of my career, I'm talking to women.
Growing up, there was just no women around. There wasn't a lot of women when you were on Warped Tour. No. You didn't have a real like of great, great getting backstage. Wasn't so many that you could chill with and talk about.
Like, there were some really amazing ladies in the production office. Of course. But then I was also like, you know, I mean, I was like pushing gear with the guys on a skateboard down a hill across to Mary Weather Post Pavilion. You know, like, I wasn't hanging out in the production office. Yeah.
I really think it is something to be the only girl in a gang. It is. And it's also like, you want to feel, you know, we could talk about this part forever. And you would be the person to be able to talk about it. But it's like, how does your, the gender that you identify as?
How do you sublimate it through your work? How do you like kind of push it aside? How do you play around with it? Like, I feel like you have really cool ways in which you kind of play around with the mask and fem side. Oh, thank you.
But it's, but it's sometimes you're just, you need like the space to be able to do that, basically. And the safety to be able to do that. The safety, that, that's the, that one hits me more. I think I, the, the era that we grew up in, and I know I've already referenced me in girls one time, but you think about like that time, that we can naturally have to. Yeah, we've done two, so we're good.
Okay. I, I, I, I you're not gonna get a phone call. I'm really in it. I like, that was a time in, in culture. Yeah, I do.
I think more conversations were starting to happen, but to be whatever age I was 14, I think we, yeah, I was a baby. And I was in that age range, you know, of all these people and, and like watching the, the social, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the construct that happens. Yeah. I feel that once I entered the band world and the music, the climate, especially for like indie and more like punk sub-genres, it didn't feel safe to be a young girl. Maybe if I was an older woman, I would have felt differently, but I really shirked any aspect of me that was remotely feminine. And I didn't know this, but it really hurt me. I did it to myself. No one asked me to do that.
Yeah, well, a lot of us did it to ourselves. Because you're scanning, right? You're always scanning for the dangers and, unfortunately, in the industries that we're both in, there's a lot of them. And I think it took me until probably, I remember writing very neutrally, in terms of my point of view. I never want to give away lyrically that this is a young girl's point of view trying to be smart enough to make that happen. But it was probably our fourth album, which I would have been in my
early 20s by that point where I started to play around with my femininity more, and I wasn't so ashamed of it. And if I ever felt sexy, I didn't push that feeling away. And because of that experience, I'm 36 and I'm still noticing places where there's a lot of rigidity around my femininity. I talked to my friends about this a lot. I mean, it's just kind of unfolding day by day.
I go through rough things in your life, and I think each time I come around to an obstacle, I'm like, how do I do this better than the last time I went through something like this? And somehow femininity is always at the core of the issue. I feel like it's a lot of deprogramming, a lot of being just what you said, a little bit curious, not so judgmental, just if you're 10% more aware of anything you're doing, you're hanging in there. Because you can't judge yourself what you didn't know. When you were on tour, were there any women that come to mind that were guiding lights or people that you met along the way that kind of felt like, oh, I'm going to take a, I'm going to notice them and I'm going to pay attention what they're doing and I'm going to learn from it. Yeah, the second year we were on
Warped Tour, John Jett and the Black Arts played on the main stage, like the whole summer, which is a brutal summer. It's a long tour. And I would catch them anytime I could. And we ended up in a photo shoot together for, I think it was for Billboard, and I kissed her on the cheek. I'm very shy. I don't,
like if we weren't doing this, I don't know when I would have ever met you. Because I'm so, I just don't, I never want to bother people and I am quite shy when I'm not on stage. And I don't know, we were staying next to that. And I just kissed her on the cheek. And I remember being like, I love her. And I didn't know anything about her other than she was in the runaways and I had a runways
poster on my wall as a teenager. But I thought she was, I thought she was just, I liked her masculinity. I liked that she wasn't embarrassed to have that side of her as a woman. And she was also very sexy. So that was probably the first woman that I really like, performer that I was really around, for like an extended period of time in my young, in my early career. And then, you know, I just this
year, I met Kathleen Hannah. And I told her, I was like, I just, I haven't had many of these conversations. And it's so validating. So it's so validating, by the way, to read books like your book and Kathleen's book and read about women. I, I, you know, I have a, my mom and my granny are like these incredible women in my life that I've learned so much from. My mom and I are like really
close in age and all that. But I learned, there's, we have so much grace for each other. And I'm very thankful for those relationships. But I didn't have anything outside of my family to really like, soak up wisdom from other women. Yeah. So I'm going to proximity of them.
Yes. You must have felt that on the air store. Like, you got to be around all these incredible women and incredible women at the helm. And you just got to feel what it feels like to be in that matriarchal simulation. Totally. It is a different, it's a different feeling all together. I mean,
there was just, there was a time to where we would go a whole year and I wouldn't see another girl on stage. And now when we, now that we have the power to chew, to make those choices, it's so nice to get to be intentional about that and to think about the conversations you might get to have backstage and what I might learn or what I might be able to offer. Another artist that's maybe like the Linda Linda's I love those girls. Oh, I love Linda Linda. I love them. And I just think that they're
they're so smart and they're so away, like politically aware and not afraid. I think that it's very night healing for me to see young like teenage people be so bold about what they believe in and really confident in their playing and how they perform and that their friendships, it's really healing to see that. Well, you probably, I mean, I have a couple questions about the era's tour and their practical questions. They're like, what is it like to perform early in the day? I love it. It sounds amazing. If I never, I've already told the team like if we get festival
offers, please don't make me play after the sun starts to go down. I completely, nothing good is happening out there. First of all, you can be done by what eight thirty nine? I don't have a normal dinner. I don't have a normal dinner. This is what Tina and I go into our end. We do like four
o'clock and six o'clock shows. What? Babe, you can do a four o'clock show. I mean, you're the boss. So you can. Because what? People are going to show up and you can say that. I'm going to show up.
You can say, good night, enjoy your dinner. And they're like, I'm a guy by seven thirty. Oh my God. That is incredible. I mean, we did do that on the air. So what at the like, you had a long
stretch when you were with them, you had a bunch of different cities with Taylor Swift on the air store. What did you do after the show? Well, when we were in the UK, I loved this because, you know, BBC, no, not BBC, I can't remember what channel it is, but they play Gogglebox. Have you watched Gogglebox? Yes, I've heard about Gogglebox. I mean, this is my show. I just love it. It's like people
what it is. People don't know. So imagine Amy and I are like, we're watching television together and all these cameras are still here, which honestly sounds terrifying. But like, it's just families and friends watching TV, like commenting on what they're seeing. And some of it is like, you know, soap opera type shit and other times it's like Boris Johnson. I love that. I often see some clips of
like heavy, beautiful scenes where like a young teen is coming out to his parents and then they'll show all the different reactions. I think like, Oh, this very blue collar family is going to have a tough time with it and they never do. Oh my God. England is just full of angels. Well, according to Gogglebox.
Yeah, according to Gogglebox. It's very wholesome. And I love to just pop an head of your two and just sink into a, you know, have some room service around. It is. Let me watch what people are watching.
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So you would like watch TV? Yeah, I would have to. You would chill out. You would not go out. We went out some. We had a lot of days off too and my favorite days were Portugal. We were in Portugal
for like four days before the show started and we did one day on this little boat. The guys and I all went out our crew, everybody. I think there was like 40 of us, maybe 30 of us total. And we went out and we're not talking about a yacht situation, but it was very cute and we went out and we swam. Well, the guys swam and then we found out later. It's like really not a good idea to swim in that
water. And you had the instinct to not go in? I don't want to be cold. I'm not a cold person. You don't remember doing like a cold plunge or any of that? You love a cold plunge.
I know this about you. And look how you're reading it. Thank you. And it's not about the skin. Although that's a nice. The skin is all care about it. The inside's gonna be rotting off.
Let my skin blow, please. Okay. It's good for inflammation. I know. I don't want you to tell me that. And you don't have to do it. You never have to do it. Maybe soon. I think it has an
honestly, it's really helped with anxiety and depression. Really? Because it talked about somatic. It flips on your like, um, fight or flight. Oh, it flips on some kind of, oh, no, I'm going to die. I'm so cold. How does that help? Because the high when you're still alive, have you ever like
thrown up on stage? I've never thought on stage. I actually don't think I've thrown up from a show. I have I've I've lacked out on stage at ACL. Like the last album cycle, but I didn't pass. I like
blacked out pink panthers was on stage singing misery business with us. And I had this moment where I was like, I just went out for two seconds and I came back. It turns out I was sick. So I found that out later. But um, but other than that, I've only had a few instances where like there was one time Mexico festival in Mexico City. I almost shit my pants throw up and um, blacked out at the same time.
I was not asked anyone to be rude. But I mean, how after so many shows have you not? How am I not? I really not. I mean, I mean, I pretty much every singer I see, I assume that they've shared their fans. Not on stage. I mean, I mean, I mean, I think it's like, it's like when you're
on your period and you go in the water, apparently, just goes, I think that's what happens on stage with me. It's just like, yeah, we're not doing this. Yeah, wait until after bed. Women are incredible. Women are so strong. Women, most of the time, don't shit their pants. Yeah, like most of them
incredible. That's like a guy thing. Actually, sorry. Present is true. I don't know any women today that have pooped their pants once. I
didn't know any hair in the studio today. We should just all try it together once. We can know. But it is. It's super physical. And then the other, I have so many, like, because I feel like
there's a version where one must like disassociate and just kind of be in your world and sing and other times where you want to feed off of the eye contact from people. And is that just, you're just always adjusting with that or? Yeah, I don't know if I'm fully present to like that awareness when I'm in it. Yeah, but I get such a rush. I mean, especially at a pair of more show, I usually recognize a lot of the people in the front. So we're all, we'll have like a relationship then throughout that
show where I'm like, I know you, I've seen you a million times and you're with me. But then I'll spot other people and I can, I can really feed. It's almost like I intuit what the song means to them. I'm not thinking about what it means to me anymore. It's so healing. It's very liberating,
actually, because I love to write about stuff that'll just make you so depressed, you know, like I need to get that out. So to have an experience with other people that takes it away from me is really, I really need that, I think. What's a song or a lyric or a moment that has been given back to you by a fan, like by, or by someone in the audience singing it back to you that's changed the meaning of what you wrote. Oh, wow. Because that's a very cool thing you just brought up. I didn't think about
it. I mean, to me, my question was going to be what does it feel like to pass around all these like feelings to people so that they can all, you know, they can all have their feelings about it. Yeah. I mean, come detectives about it. Yeah. But I realize there must be a gift also in the way
people sing the song back to you, tell you what they feel about the song that it must change the meaning of the song. It really does. I think on the mind. Well, the first one that comes to mind is this song called Last Hope from our fourth album, or we had a self title record that came out when Zack left the band. He left the band with his brother who started the band with us when we were teenagers. And it was really Taylor and I were writing and I was, we were both really sad.
And I just kind of also felt like, I mean, what is a band matter? You know, I really was feeling so existential about the whole thing. And I can't remember. It's the lyric in the bridge. It's like, the salt in my wounds isn't burning. It doesn't burn quite as much as it used to. I can't remember
exactly the words right now, but it, I just remember writing it and being like, this is so sad. And unfortunately is how I feel. And I've really struggled with my mental health and kind of like, you know, I've wanted to not be here plenty of times. And that song kind of expressed that in the moment for me. Having that at a paramour show that moment and feeling like everyone in the room has survived so many different things. And we're all here. Half of us will never see each other again.
It really does something to those types of songs where I wrote them in such isolation. And now here I am having to like not only be witnessed, but bear witness to all these other experiences that have coalesced. And people are just physically joyously singing that back to you. Being like, thank you for writing that thing. Like, dude, joy is really joy is a tough emotion for me because I don't trust it. I always think it's
gonna, the piano is gonna fall from the sky is what I say to my, it's just gonna hit me when I least expect it. And I think that's why paramour shows, at least for me, they feel so joyous because I'm relying on a lot of other things. I'm not thinking so much about my own experience. And when we can transcend our own experience, it's like, for me, joy becomes more tangible. It's like, I'm not controlling what's happening anyway. And this thing is being offered up. We're all
kind of creating this energy together and we just get to reach up and pull it down into our hearts. And it's like, it's very wholesome. It's, I mean, it's very primal. It's very primal. Singing with other people, like, just the frequency of that in a room is powerful.
Yeah. Can we talk about being short? Can we please fucking talk about being short? Both five to. According to Wikipedia, are you a natural five to?
Yeah, I am. In fact, one time I did the whole entrance thing. They called me take your blood and all that stuff. And they were like, you're five three and I never let it go. It's on my driver's license. Five three is on my driver's license too. Because they measured me at five three,
which I'm not. I was like, and they're like, five three. And I was like, okay. I'm super pumped. Oh my god. I was so relieved actually. What's the thing about being five two and what's a bummer?
Well, so my friend Daniel that I made the record with is probably like six three. I find that you don't know because anyone over a certain item like just a building. I don't like it. I don't know. I'm just walking through New York every day in my life.
We were standing on like a porch of a house that was kind of like on a hill. And then there were chairs and I was like, you're way up there, man. Like we're already standing atop this little hill. So I got on the chair and I stood next to I stood on the chair next to him where I was even with him. I felt so vulnerable to the elements. I was like, closer to this. This is not where I want to be.
No too windy up there. It's too windy. I don't like to be cold. And I hate wind if I'm being honest. Yeah, get down under and get down back into your fertile sky. I just I really felt scared for
like a few minutes. So I tip over. I don't know how tall people don't constantly tip over. And it's like not our business. What's happening out there. It's not a business. I don't want to know.
It's like if something's important, shout it down. But yeah, I mean really though, I I do though when I'm shopping, I hate being short. It sucks. It's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. Every pair of
pants you look like a little kid, like like swooshing around and a long way around. You know, totally every nothing fits nothing is made for shorties. It's really not and now that I'm getting a little bit older, I'm like learning about like if my torso is the right link, then if this part on my body, I'm just like, I don't want to know anything on your body that's long. My day. But it's also really wide, which is like, oh, I do love it. Ladies love it. I just don't know.
And then prepare for one more glaze. Okay. I'm ready. I actually don't know if this is the last place. But you are an artist that other artists, male and female feel like you are a lot of people's favorite artists, favorite artists. They love working with you. They have huge, tender feelings about
being in your orbit. They on stage feel very like they're kind of loving you in real time on stage. And you've worked with a ton of people who love working with you and would be able to get 20 people to talk about how much they love you right now. Who are your people right now that when you get to see them perform with them, be with them, they feel like they're part of a peer group that like lifts you up and support you or people that are up on that you're hoping to support and bring along for the next ride. Well, I got to perform with the Linda Linde's in London. And I felt really
proud of them. I get to do more stuff with David Byrne this year. And I know that's going to feel like it's weird. It's interesting because Linda Linde's are younger than me. David's older than me.
Well, that's what I feel like being in your mid 30s feels like as you're feeling a little in the middle. Yeah. And you know, if you're 20s or figuring out what you want to do, then your 30s are kind of figuring out what you don't want to do. So you're kind of letting go of things and are working for you anymore. But that vacuum gets filled with cool stuff like and you're looking ahead and back.
It's what do you think your 30s feel like? I have felt like honestly enjoying you talking about it because I 30s are weird. Like it's weird, especially the middle of my 30s. I still felt very young in my early 30s. Like I still felt very, what's the difference between 28 and 32? I felt like it was
all the same. Something happened at 35. I started seeing myself like seeing pictures and being like, oh, that's different. But I also still feel sprightly and have energy and almost like a renewed passion that makes me want to live it all up. Yeah. It's just so I didn't expect 30s to be like this.
I guess I want to know. What did you expect 30s to be like? When we're young? I'm like, what feels old? Because I'm here in time 54. I don't feel any, I don't feel
old. But when I was a young person, if someone was like, she's 50, it would be like, oh my. That's the oldest number I can say. And it's so funny here to tell you from like, just I sent you a dispatch from 54. I don't feel like different. It really excites me. It excites me
because I see like, because being 36 when you say 54, maybe this is the age where like that doesn't sound old to me. That doesn't scare me. I think it sounds better than 36. And a lot of ways. I think it's harder to be in the middle. Yeah, the middle is hard. The middle is hard. Hell is the hallway.
Hell is the hallway. But hell is the hallway. We just wrote a whole song. No one's ever in any of those words. Okay. And then the last thing I'll say is that I see in the music world, what happens a lot in the
more like actor comedy world, which is women who are very, very different are kind of asked to be a member of the same group. And they're all really different with different styles and ways of approaching things. But you have incredible, you're in an incredible time right now for just women in music. They're just dominating. Oh my God. And so many styles. Exactly. Yeah, I'm really enjoying watching
women on stages right now because of what you said. It's so many different personalities. I love Mannequin Pussy. I think they're amazing. They're amazing. And we just connected over just
over DMs. And Missy was talking about losing her voice. And we were kind of like kicking in about that a little bit and talking about this initiative that she told me about. It's no music for genocide initiative. And it's just so nice, again, to talk to other women and music that we don't have to be doing the same thing. We don't have to like the same music. We could be on completely different sides of
the musical landscape. But I feel so much less alone by engaging in it more. And it's so exciting. Also, I was just telling my friends this morning, I normally listen to like, I like bands and I like heavy music. And I like weird, I like all the stuff that's happening in Copenhagen right now.
What's happening in Copenhagen? Oh, there's such a great music scene in Copenhagen. It's just what? Yes. I'll send you a playlist. Oh my God, I love it. It's all. It's like heavy?
Heavy? No, it's not heavy. It's a vibe. It's a vibe. And I've always liked music from that from like Scandinavian artists, you know. But also, I just like was listening to, I put on this Olivia
Dean song called Man I Need. And I was like, oh, I know it because I've seen the clips all over the internet. And I started singing along to it. And I started crying to it. And I think it's because it's so, it feels joyful and feels very feminine. It's not, my mouth doesn't make those shapes very often.
And my body like really responded to it. So I just, yeah, there's so many different types of music happening right now that I'm so inspired by. That's awesome. Yeah, it's fun. And what are you listening to watching, reading, what do you do to laugh? What do you do when you want to get up, you know, get on the
elevator and get up out of the, like, what makes you laugh? Wayne's World. It's my favorite movie all the time. I talked about how much, how great Wayne's. Can we please talk about it? I mean,
Dana Carvey was instrumental for me when I was in, you know, like you always kind of fall in love with the SNL cast that you saw when you were like 13, 14. And he, him and Jan Hooks, like that cast the apartment. And Mike Myers was an improviser who came out of the theater that I studied at. So Mike was kind of an example of like, one of us can make it. Wow. He kind of came up through that system,
Chicago system and Ghana's now. So those two were, and but what do you like about Wayne's World? I love it. That is Wayne's World. Make you laugh. Well, so my parents were really young. And I think
that's why I got to grow up on stuff like that from the early, early 90s, early 80s. And I thought that's how we would dress when we became adults. I was like, this is how adults dress. We wear fish nets under denim, ripped up shorts. We wear flannels over air since t-shirts. And I literally dress like
that. I mean, I just, I, that movie has, it's like the godfather to me. Like, I quote that movie all the time. What's your, what's your favorite scene in the Wayne's World? Oh, this is good. Well, it's probably
the dream we've ever seen. It's probably when they first seek a Sandra. And that gorgeous woman played by Tia Carrera. Tia Carrera, my queen. Incredible. And Chris Traeger's Rob Lowe is in
Wayne's World, Rolo as we like to call him. You know, I did not like Rob Lowe until much later in his career. He was bad in Wayne's World. He was the villain in Wayne's World. Yes. I believe Parks and Rec was my,
was the redemption tour. Okay. So we'll finish with Doug's two questions because they weren't great questions. Okay. So Doug had two questions for you. And by the way, make sure you check out Wayne's
World. If you haven't seen Wayne's World, what the fuck? Honestly, yeah. Difft of bleep curse words. No, you don't have to bleep on this. I got by the power.
So incredible freedom. Freedom. Freedom. Okay. He had two great questions. One was, you know how
Batman has a symbol in the sky that calls Batman? Yeah. What would Haley Williams symbol be? And it can be anything. Yes. Do you know in Wayne's World when they're driving in the gremlin?
And it's the middle of Bohemian Rhapsody when the guitar sort of like kind of breaks down. And the camera pans up and there's like a car on top of us pole. I think it's a car. It's like a sign for something. And it would be like that, but it would just be the gremlin. It would be
Wayne's World car. Have a glow behind it. You would see it in the sky and be like, gotta go. Gotta go. It's time. You know what I mean? Yeah. Gotta get in there. Gotta get in that world.
It would be like that. And very faintly from a distance Bohemian Rhapsody even playing. Yeah. What's your favorite part about Bohemian Rhapsody? It's uh, so you think it goes on in a little bit.
That's my favorite part. Of course. And then the next question, which is wild, is what is the last song that you want to hear before you die? Okay. Oh no. I know and you're and and do you feel you
would know it? Staying alive. That was always my funeral song, but I suppose it would be kind of cool to go out to it as well. And you don't want to add an extra layer to it. That is supposedly the beat that you're supposed to do CPR to stop staying alive. That's when we learn CPR. It was like
ha ha ha. Stay alive. Stay alive. And then Ben, breathe in there now. Whoa.
So that might be what you want to hear. Doug, you got your answer. Well, um, I hope this isn't too embarrassing, but we're going to do a cool down with our straws. Oh, with our straws. Yeah.
Very strong. Doug has really taught you gave us a he gave us a cool down. And now I only want to do it with straws. Okay. Can you talk us through it? Yeah, we do a few different versions and it honestly
has been a moment since I've done it, which is hence why I was saying I need to start doing it at night. But I think the whole idea is go. Normally you're going from here building up, kind of up your range. Now we're going to close. We're going to shut it down. Okay. So let's start like not too high, but just
Harry Williams. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. That felt really good. I did. And
I love you and I love your voice and I love spending time with you. I love you so much. I don't know why I felt like I knew you happened there. I'm going to really unpack on my way home. And I'll send you a playlist. Yes, please. Because we need to know what's going on in Copenhagen.
You're right. Because I'm embarrassed about how little I know what's going on over there. We need to get over there. And don't think that for the rest of the week, I'm not going to dine out on the fact that Haley Williams told me there's a lot of music going on in Copenhagen. I'm going to say it at least 10 times. Tell everyone. Tell everyone you know about me at the gas station. The block is hot in Copenhagen.
You got to tell them I'm going to drop that like it's nothing. I'm just going to say it's so casually I'm not going to make eye contact. Hands in your pockets. Cigarette appears. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
We're going to stay here. But you're going to go. Thank you so much for coming, Haley. You are well, you're my new best friend. Whether you know it or not. And we'll be friends forever.
It was so fun to see you. And I just want to say, Haley talked about a lot of amazing musicians and and people that she loves to work with. But for this polar plunge, I'm just reminding everybody about two things. The great Kathleen Hannah who, you know, started Bikini Kill and Latigra and is an incredible activist and musician and instrumental for so many women's careers such an inspiration. I know for me and many other people. And the Linda Lindas, a band that Kathleen has supported as well
as Haley forever. They are just this really super fun, great musicians, great vibe. I got the chance to work with them in a movie I directed called Moxie where they were playing at the dance and they're just so fun. So check out music from the Linda Lindas and always bow down to the great Kathleen Hannah. And thank you, Haley Williams always for all you do. Can't wait to see what's next. Okay.
Thanks. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for the show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weisberman and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The
Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spelain, Kaya McMullen and Elia Zanerez. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell and Jenna Weisberman. Original music by Amy Miles. So your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot, four pumps of caramel and no sugar, small not tiny large cup. That will be 10 minutes. Don't worry. I'm having fun on Play Ojo.
And I keep a fun with all the latest lot in live casino games. Plus I get instant payouts with no minimum withdrawals. Here's your decaf oat milk extra but not piping hot. Ah, thanks. Play time's over. Lovely.