Hellraiser (1987)

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We fucked up. This is another one of those classic cases where I was like, I have zero notes. Like I've seen this movie so many times. I like the back of my hand.

It is so good. I had big plans to dive into the special features. You just wrote this episode really to get some more intel. That didn't happen.

But maybe there'll be a special feature features that will include down the line because Arrow put out an amazing set of the quadrilogy, including Bloodline. I don't have the quad. I just have the single disk Hellraiser. But that alone has a ton of stuff on it.

I would love to. I mean, I don't consume a lot of special feature material, aside from what you post for us. But I feel like of all of them, Bloodline's got to be the one that I would want to watch the most. Like what's going on over there?

I feel like it was such a, I love Bloodline. So I'm going to say, and everybody that listens to the show knows that I love Bloodline. But I would love to know why it's such a mess. Because I won't lie to myself or anyone else.

It's a mess. Yeah. No, I mean, it's one of those movies where you're like, there is a great idea somewhere in this movie. Hellraiser in space.

I mean, I think that that's a way I could describe almost every Hellraiser sequel after the second one is like, there is a great idea here where the execution is maybe not what we need it to be. The biggest issue with Bloodline is that it doesn't follow. We've talked about this before. It doesn't follow up on the promise of Hellraiser three ends.

The idea of the box being built into this office building and what you could do with Hellraiser in an office building is like so. So tantalizing and then it's just like, let's just do a period piece and a future piece simultaneously instead. Yeah, I really love the Hellraiser office building. You know, Bloodline, have we done Bloodline for a week?

I think we've done almost every single Hellraiser now. I think Purse 6 is the only one we haven't done. Six or seven? Yeah.

Whichever one is done. No, we did the film war. We didn't do the one where Ashley Lawrence came back, right? Yes.

Is that five or six? So five is the one that's a film war? That's Inferno, which we've done. I think it's just six and seven that we haven't done.

Wow. As far as the Bradley pinion. Yeah, as far as like... It's seven.

Let me see. Because their names are not helpful. So we haven't done Hellseeker or Dettr. Those are the two that we haven't done.

Yeah. Those are really hard to find too. Those are not... Oh, I got them on an APAC or an 11-pack.

It's that... So there was a DVD box set that was released that was just Hellraiser three and beyond. Yeah. Oh my god.

I've only seen it and one that had like Bud the Chud. There was one that had like Bud the Chud. And there was like a crazy one that those movies don't exist in another format really right now except in that movie pack. But anyway, this...

Yeah, these movies rule. And this one in particular is an all-timer. It's probably in my top ten favorite horror films, maybe in my top ten films. That's wild.

I mean, I love it. I love it too. I probably put in my top ten favorite horror films, but it's crazy to think like, and it makes sense for me knowing you that it would be in your top ten of all time. When I think of Hellraiser specifically this first movie, you know, I've talked about it a couple times with my Uncle Craig, but I think about how terrified this box art made me.

Not the front. I didn't care about Pinhead holding the cube, but when you flip the box around, you had skinless Frank on the back of it, and that made me very uncomfortable. And then my Uncle Craig had these like, I would say like two to three foot tall figurines of all of the centabytes that he had in last case. I remember those.

Yeah. And I would just stare at them. I was fascinated by these films when I was afraid to watch our movies. Yeah.

And then I remember renting it probably, it must have been in high school, I guess, when I was getting into horror more and more. And this movie just really blowing my mind in how good it was, how gross it was at parts, but like, I wanted to quote, there's a podcast that I produce, Why Okay? One of the hosts is Alyssa Lube. And when she was on the circle, the original reason why she got casted was that she just happened to be in LA when they were looking for people.

And she had moved to LA to do special effects makeup because of the Hellraiser franchise. And she did not know that. And she had talked about how with the very first time I ever spoke to her about anything, she talked about skinless, frank and skinless, Julia, and how she was just obsessed with how beautiful and gross those characters were. Like she's like, it's so gross because it is a person with no skin, but it is so realistic that it almost becomes beautiful to look at where you're just fascinated by like all of the work that went on behind the scenes.

And that was like her becoming obsessed with learning. She wanted to learn special effects makeup and move to LA to study that. That's so cool. Yeah, well, those effects are they stand out.

The stop motion free birth is one of the most impressive things in any film ever. Like it's so good. And it's so long, but it doesn't, you know, like we always talk about like how long like the werewolf transformation in American werewolf in London and howling is. But this is like, this is probably longer than both of those transformations.

And I could watch like 15 more minutes of it if given the opportunity because it is just so impressive from every second. It's also it's also it's it's mixed media too. Right. Like it's that particular approach to it.

That sequence is not it is. I mean, it's effects heavy, right? But it's not just a singular effect or not just like a singular way of showing the effect. It's this mixture in which is which we've come to find out.

You know, that's Clive Barker's whole fucking deal, right? Yeah. It's like his artistry is everywhere in so many different forms. It's just cool that like you can kind of narrow it down to something like that sequence and be like, Oh, yup, that's that's Barker.

And this is like this opens up a lot of conversations. This is arguably, I think one of the best debut films from a director. It's incredible. He'd done two short films before this.

That's it. Like that's crazy to me. I would even argue of the 80s. You have to remove Texas Chainsaw Massacre from the conversation, I think.

Sure. But of the 80s, I think this is also the best part one of any of the major horror franchises that come out in the 80s. And that's including the name of street, which I love. But I think that this is a more impressive overall film.

I think that's you being I think that's you with your adult eyes. Yes. Oh, as a kid, I was going to go all in on Freddie 100. It's very interesting.

I did. I barely had to watch this because I've seen it so many times. So while I was watching it, I was reading trivia and one of the things that I found very interesting and I'll just touch on them throughout the conversation. But one of them pertain to nine and I was reading is that they originally, like the studio originally wanted pinhead to talk and crack jokes, either talking crack jokes like Freddie or not speak at all like Jason because they thought that it was going to be like a slasher franchise and a guy was like, No, you know, he's got a talk and he's got to be like very stately.

He said he wanted it to be like Christopher Lee as Dracula because that is scary to him and not cracking jokes or not speaking at all. And I also have a very interesting because this was Doug Bradley's first movie too. He was he was going to audition for either. The priest lead son of bite.

We should refer to pinhead as lead son of bite because that's what he is quoted as or titled as in the credits, but and and. It's never sat well with Clibburker that he's been nicknamed pinhead because it's kind of like minimizes how fucking terrifying, you know, the priest is. Hey, who you calling pinhead? Yeah, exactly.

But he so Doug Bradley, he was going either audition for pinhead or one of the fucking mattress movers because he and his thought process is funny. It's very interesting. His thought process was, well, this is my first movie. I should probably not go for a big lead role.

I would go for this small role to get my feet wet because he had mostly done theater. And then he thought about it and he's like, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna go for the lead. Lead son of bite.

And when he was doing his performances, Clibburker was like, do less because, you know, if he's a stage actor, he's making big movements, you know, and he's like do less and he would do less and Clibburker would go do less again. And so he had to like because he wanted to be so stately and scary in his like salinity. And I just think that that is so interesting. I think that it's also one of those things we talk about like the perfect casting of Robert England is Freddy right there like almost no one can fill those shoes and we're like mostly in that same position I think with pinhead for the most part because there is such a like you walk away from this and you think of Course a theater actor would play pinhead like that's the only way that it makes sense actually and that's what makes it scary And that's why I think when they did the reboot you do have to do a completely different variation of the sleeve Because any other time that they've tried to recast this version of pinhead slash the lead set about it's been atrocious It's been just like dude that they threw a few bucks at overacting.

There's that one where he's just in a room next door. Oh, yes Revelations, yeah, you're just like what the fuck is this like is yeah, I had a child Is he a five-year-old toddler not being given a toy like what is this nonsense? I had to watch that for I did this dimension extreme Oh, yes, I'm really gonna please over it video monsters and that was that was rough That was a rough watch all together though admittedly it you know They had three you know $30,000 and or $300,000 in like seven days and I'm like, okay. Well, you know what?

Let's not give them too much credit. Do you know how much they spent on this movie a mill? Actually nine hundred thousand and then they did an other extra hundred thousand so it was one million dollars and then $33 million at the box office So I mean like let's not discount the fact that this movie was very scrappy, you know who another piece of trivia I thought was amazing. It just shows that Clive Barker is just The guy you know is he and one of the other guys that were working on this movie are the ones that did the the cellulite painting Like all of the blue and the yellow in the the final scene all that electricity and stuff They painted that they did the cellulite painting over one weekend They did it like I guess I think just got really fucking drunk and just that a role we can yeah Oh my god like that is that's the dream right like that to as a independent filmmaker to making your thing like just being like Okay, we need to get this done then you're gonna come over this weekend.

We're gonna figure it out I've done much of that before and right right you know I just track back real quick about Doug Bradley auditioning to be one of the movers I don't think about moving a piece of furniture through a doorway without thinking of this movie Every time every time This is the weirdest thing that you guys are gonna ever hear me say we bought not one but two new mattresses We have two beds in our house one for us one for our one for guests We bought we replaced both of them last year which was so fucking weird The and and of course I had to move the old ones out And I moved one of the new ones in like the other the bigger new one our new one like for our bed is it was a king and We it was delivered and like moved in but like moving the other ones I was like ho ho and I know for a fact that there I know random nails that could slice my hand over This is in your head forever forever. There's something about it like the some people think pivot from the show friends I think of catching my hand on a nail Combination of both mostly because my family uses that pivot clip from friends as explaining what moving with me is like If they if they in a gang of millennial Did you guys I was not aware that there was another Hellraiser after revelations but before the remake judgment judgment made made $450,000 at the box office on its $350,000 In like Hollywood accounting that's still a loss that's still obviously but my god The fact that someone's making a hell-raiser movie for $300,000 like in what in 25 2018 to I was a 15. Yeah, you know what's so crazy is that that's four years before the hellraiser reboot Yeah, was that just Kyle's that's just one of those things where they had to keep making these sequels to hold on to the copyright Situation so I think they were really as a death grip Gary Toncliffe directed that that which is kind of weird. He did a I mean he does a ton of makeup effects and he had no that explains But that might be yeah, yeah really really bad.

Yeah, they you know the irony was that it was like dimension films was trying so badly To hold on to that Hellraiser franchise and they're just they're just diminishing the value of I mean I don't know you but also that movie tanked additionally because it was coming out around the exact same time as all of the Dimension film allegations and then I think they had to sell off the brand anyway like at that point dimension films gets dismantled so they just made these two cheapo garbage sequels that nobody wanted and Like they still didn't even get to keep the rights to the franchise. It was 20th century fox that made the remake So well, you know what I got a hand it to him that's what you do is fantastic It's great, you know, and so I got a thank-the-mentioned films for fucking it up So bad so bad because you know like we could have an entire other conversation about how there are similarities and differences with the hellbound Heart which is the short story in a fella that obviously inspired this film I Find that watching Hellraiser a seven and Hellraiser 22 if you kind of blend The hell priest from both like Jamie Clayton. I thought was a great casting for that because yeah And they really played into a lot of the androgynous Aspects of the centivites and then they're actually not even called centivites in the in the book in the story It's very funny how like so much of the nomenclature of hellraiser is Wrong if you take the source material and Clive Barker like I admittedly I've not yet read the spell of God's I have a copy of it waiting on my tbr but Well, but I you know I've heard very next things about it And I also don't really like Clive Barker's fantasy work So I you know like it's it's not high on my to-do list, but I do find it very interesting that Whoever decided to reboot hellraiser was like, you know, there are some things that are missing because like Hellraiser itself. I would say specifically hellraiser a seven is a very queer movie.

Obviously. Yeah, I feel like you lose a lot of It's watered down severely every time they do another one. I mean like yeah, you still have them wearing the BDSM outfits That's about it. Yeah, like none of the the sexual Perversion that's kind of like it permeates so much of this movie Is there and and I read a couple of pieces which were so fucking purple.

I couldn't stand it But they did point out some interesting things about how Clive Barker really wanted to have Since he had to take away some of the more oblique discussions that were in the novella with the movie He wanted to be each other had with some other things in like the amount of blood I mean because like the album artist bladder punk and a lot of that is very queer itself as a subgenre of the horror literature coming out in the 80s, but the the the movie there's so much blood and like there's idea of like transgressive sex And that equals death because like quite a part of the game and the 80s to the AIDS epidemic all these things like I find them to be very Interestingly different in the movie than they were in the story in the novella and I think that they did a good job of hitting some of those other pieces in the 2022 reboot and also talking about the centibites in an interesting way that is very I think it's very It's very True to the source material, but a lot of people really didn't like it for a lot of reasons I don't really want to like him and haw about those because I don't want to be a negative Nancy But goddamn I think that those movies I could I could actually watch those movies back to back and they would feel like they feel like spiritual Like spiritually similar aligned. I agree I mean for I didn't have I didn't take a lot of issue with with that new one the way that some folks did or I think again when you're just Approaching a story or what you think a story is and what you have it in your mind as you know You see the 87 Doug Bradley lead Senate by eight on the blue cover You know it's like you get the whole you have this image in your head or even if you think They're these all these mid sequels if that's the if that's the understanding of how razor that you have and then you're going into the The new one I don't I think it's such a standalone piece that that does work I would like to revisit the novella, you know and pick up some of those themes again and see how they compare That may be that's what all maybe that'll be sometime this February. Yeah, perfect time to reread help on art It's a quick read probably do it like you. I know that you are not like Voracious reader and that's that's not a guess at all like I could tackle it Yeah, yeah, it's a smooth read like client barker is so readable anyway Yeah, and like for listeners if you haven't read the books of blood which the hellbound heart is considered part of the books of blood You need to fucking read them and some of the best in my opinion It's some of the best horror short work that's been done in the last fucking 50 years.

It's so so good. He's so clever it I mean, it's it's it's Cosmic it's like crafting to me and it's got body horror, but it's also got like a lot of the tales from the crypt EC comics revenge stuff that Stephen King was doing in the 70s and early 80s feel like there's that but in a splatter punk view I'm actually thinking of um What's the one called like pigs blood or something like that? Um, that one is one big blood Yeah, that one is it feels like the closest that you could get to five-varker doing a king concept Which is the way I feel about the original Jerusalem of the Lums lot which is King doing his best Lovecraft and it's honestly probably my favorite King short story anymore, and so it's just very interesting to see like the the veins of Connection there. I got way off topic of hell raise or a seven But it's it's kind of important to talk about it I think you can't talk about it without talking Clive Barker as like a that's a singular voice I don't think you know and that's what makes this movie such a standout is I think a singular voice directorial debut like what the fuck That's a direct or a direct or a debut.

No, but you can do that That's crazy. No, no Canada is up to nil. That is the most dangerous lead in soccer relax Mike See that Dan my left eye is switching. That's my warning.

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That's what I had written down I also did that for hell razor force. Well again. It feels like a really cheap answer. I think that hell razor is A significantly better movie than event horizon because I've been horizon was actually Pretty disappointing when I mean like it's it's it fucked me up Until the third act like I remember watching it in like 98 or whatever I was first on VHS and being like holy shit almost like throwing up it was so So disturbing with like the hell dimension stuff And that's what I would like if if hellbound The instead of seeing the labyrinth you saw a whole dimension like in a venerizing it would be like way better than it is Like I like hellbound, but I'm just saying like it would be so much better because that's that is truly hellish to me And so like a venerizing has a lot of pitfalls But I do really like the first hour and 15 minutes of it.

Okay, all right So I'm gonna okay, that was what I had written down I'm gonna go with something that I actually just re-watch the other day for the first time in like two decades And we go with Brahms stoker's Dracula from 1992 because it's also kind of like a sexy horror film Dude we watched that last winter so winter of 20 like literally like so much better than I remembered when I I remember being Fucking mediocre when I was in high school or maybe junior high when I watched it. I never watched it again and holy shit It's it's beautiful. It is Lush At one point like it's just a cool cool movie I'm glad that I finally rewatched it in like 2005 and probably thought the same thing as you I was like that's pretty mediocre for how much people talked about this movie and then I revisit it literally last week And was like this is great. So it's so good.

How about you? What is your double speech? I'm gonna go with a another Clive Barker's story and go with Candyman Forbidden yeah, they try to do a crossover movie after Freddie and Jason was ahead. They wanted to do like a pinhead Candyman crossover and Barker was like don't do that It sounds awful.

You don't you don't have my blessing. Yeah, listen There's a lot there's a lot of things that we can never give our blessing to but one of the things we can give our blessing to is you Going over to patreon.com backslash hmn podcast and becoming a patron joining the slack letting us know what your double feature is finding us on social media at Hmn podcast on everything including letterbox go to our store hmn podcast.dashry.com and visit our website hmn podcast.com You know we're good people come help us out come hang with us all of that good jazz and lastly Scott What is something that you've recently watched listen to red, etc? I saved this Because instead of mentioning it last week, but I thought that it would make more sense to do it when we're discussing a movie based on a book I have finally found a First time in at least six months a five-star book. Let's go.

I slog through some shit After Christmas, but I picked up a copy of there is no antimemetics division by quantum QN TM is the is his his his nom de plume and I Was like oh this feels like SCP Like I was I read like you know the the the blurb on goodreads and I'm like this sounds like SCP I'm totally down for that because I love SCP and I talked about it and I'm on the show and I start reading it And I'm like this is oddly similar to some SCP and entries that I remember and I was like wait a minute Wait one hot damn second and I looked it up and he's actually the author of those SCP stories He he and the great thing about the SCP wiki is that you as a writer actually own the rights to your stories They have no claim they are just literally like a a place a common location for people to post stories and have feedback And then those stories can become part of the larger lore of the SCP foundation But it's very interesting because a lot of his work on the SCP wiki is about memetic anomalies So like memory erasing or memory changing creatures artifacts Places things like that and I and they're hard for my brain to wrap around and so I didn't love them You know I never really was drawn to them But he he took a bunch of those and he built this story about one of the main like stories that he has in the SCP foundation and it is so good it's existential horror it's cosmic horror like very Lovecraftian in that way It's not super long. I think it was 225 pages or something like that So I've destroyed it in two nights and it was just it was a hard read because it wasn't a hard read It was it was a it was a challenging read because of the memetic like the the ideas of like memories that are lost or have to be erased by chemicals So that these anomalous things can't continue to happen in the world and but absolutely five-star I think that it's the best thing I've read since oh my god probably Between two fires like it's is that good? I would recommend anybody who likes horror to read it because it's just so damn good I'm gonna jump off of that for a second to do a quick promo for something that at the time where recording hasn't happened But I believe it's on the docket that if you go over to Geekscape TV You will have seen that on Sunday February 1st There was the first live stream episode of the dungeon crawler coral recap podcast Yeah, I've been watching those emails go back and forth and I'm like it's been too long because I read them all I read all the books over the course of two months, but that was also 15 months ago, so I think they're gonna recap all of the books leading up to the eighth books release Yeah, so strap in for that if you are a fan of dungeon crawler coral, I am yeah Katie Hampton is taking the reins on that one. Yeah, meanwhile Scott talks some trash on it last week, but I'll keep it brief I didn't hate the final episode of Stranger Things like a lot of teenagers on the internet did I don't think that the season five will be remembered as a perfect season But I think it will be remembered as a perfect final episode the last 30 minutes were to me the way that you wrap up that story They did like a really solid job of doing everything that that that story was supposed to be and I've gotten into some arguments online with people about it But you know from the I've been rewatching the show with Barb's oldest because he wanted to see it and from day one This has always been 80 Spielberg.

This has always been Goonies This has always been monster squad so like the people who went into this finale being like I need to see some of these characters die Like you're setting yourself up for disappointment because that was never ever going to be what this story was about You know, it's about a crazy adventure for a bunch of kids that bring kids closer that bring the kids closer together And the way that they tie that up in the last 30 minutes after all of the action and chaos and getting this like graduation scene where we see the people that these characters are going to become and then like moving away and pulling apart But they'll always be united by this like crazy supernatural event that they all were a part of like I just thought it was beautifully done and I applaud it So if you've been putting it off because the kids on TikTok hated it It's worth watching I think but if you're like checked out and you haven't like if you have to watch like four more seasons to get into it I don't think it's worth the journey, but if you if you already made it a season for like just knock out season five Why not but that's it Kyle take us out. Yeah, I Watched a movie by Peter Greenway who is probably best known for the cook the thief He made a and I picked this up on a whim and I really picked it up mainly because of the description of the movie and it was much more than I Expected I picked up a movie called a Z and two knots now is that into knots is a movie about two zoologist twin brothers who lose both of their wives in a car accident outside of the zoo and Their relationship to each other and it's about their relation to each other their relationship to the now amputee who survived the wreck who was in another car and their obsession with how animals decay it is What year is this? 85 Wow, it's it's as if I describe this how I described it It says if jutter Rousky and David Cronenberg had a British half-brother And this was the movie that existed between the two of them There's this level of symmetry and lighting and space that feels very like jutter Rousky But then there's the the body horror and the time you can't the twin ship of like I can't stop that can't not think of deadringers or crash Oh, yeah, but this is you know, this is ten years before Cronenberg was doing any of that particular realm of it like a little more eroticism and kink here, but also like British But British it's also like kind of proper and it does culminate in a really wild and that I was kind of shook by I really enjoyed it And it's funny like there's also like parts of humor to it. You know watching these two dudes They're lost their wives, but then they think that they're figuring it out right like they're just right there The stress relationship they think that they're figuring it out and coming together and being better people when in actuality They've they've like dived into more chaos and more insanity But you watch them go from the shovel to like more, you know, proper and feeling better about it, but it's all okay It's all wild it's wild.

I found on DVD a really bare bones DVD I was then pointed out on letterbox and I don't know if it was a let's I don't know if this person's a listener or not But Keyno has it available on DVD or Blu-ray Keyno just always does sales so they have some other Peter Greenaway stuff I was really blown away by it. It was it's a cool good first find of 2026 for me. That's such a Kyle movie, too That is I was gonna say this one of these movies where it I Know that I'm not gonna enjoy it But there is this weird morbid curiosity where I'm like yeah, I feel like eventually I'm going to watch it and be like That's beautifully made I never want to watch it again and I'm sad that I watched it once There's a handful of those that I've experienced in my life and you know, why not throw one more on the pile I'm 40. Let's get crazy Well, this was the first of four movies we're doing at four franchise February so stay tuned next week to find out what the next franchise is We are diving into Rose and lasagna medium power 15 minutes Sounds like oh Joe time.

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