Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This week the conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms and changes the world together. Welcome back leaders to this week's edition of the Life Group Leader podcast. We are on week three of Holding On, a study through the book of Jude and already has been just such a great teaching series as we heard from our Cedar Pash Air Geiger week one and then our pastor emeritus kitten be sure last week to set an impactful message.
If you're at Irvine, you heard from Kent and be sure but we know across the congregations we had a lot of our leads, a team speaking live there which was amazing. So we're very excited to have one of our reps today from a very thriving Mariners Church congregation. Ladies and gentlemen, I've got my friend Johan here with me today. Johan say hello.
What's up? What's up? Hello, Bears Church. It is fun to be here and I'm excited for this time.
Yeah, and Johan, you're at North Irvine and it was just announced this last weekend. So exciting news and developments happening there. So why don't you share with those that are listening? What's happening at North Irvine?
That's right. That's right. I had the joy and pleasure being the discipleship pastor in North Irvine for the past year. Yeah.
It says last March and as of this past Sunday, I just stepped into being the lead pastor for North Irvine. So I'm still staying at North Irvine. You still with us? Yeah.
And we're going to be getting a new pastor from the time of the future. So there's going to be now three pastors. That's awesome. I'm super excited about this in your old and able to walk alongside the congregation and see what God is doing.
Yeah. So those of you that are listening from North Irvine, you're excited, you're jumping up and down, you know, Johan, you know the team there and you know, I've just been such a joy to see everything that you've brought into all of Mariners. I remember down a few over a year ago exploring this role and walking away from it thinking, that's right. We're bust higher.
That's right. But so it's just been amazing to see what God has done it in three boots on the ground. I mean, you've been, you know, leading the charge with all things discipleship and rooted there to just what have you been encouraged about in your year so far? What have you seen?
I've read it to revile. And it's a big question. You can go a little bit like this, but just be what I start a little bit of a snapshot. Yes.
I think the part out of so many things that we can celebrate if there was to be beat one thing, you'd be stories. Oh my goodness. As a discipleship pastor, the joy that I had was getting to know people, meet people, hear their stories and also see in real time Jesus, the story impacting their story and seeing a life transformation happening and our church, like literally visibly tangible week by week and still to share that and walk together through that is just, there's no greater joy and pleasure. So what privilege?
I love all we get to do. I mean, we are church about fearlessly change the world. Come on, bro. Sit.
Come on. You'll have to somebody who exhibits enthusiasm with all that. I got much appreciation for that. All right.
Why don't we jump into the passage for today? This is, I'm looking at June 5 through 11. And remember, it's not chapter one, five, it's first five through 11. This is like one chapter throughout this book.
And this is going to be a great discussion. What we're seeing in, as we start our discussion today is what are examples of things that we look at to remind ourselves of past significant moments? Be curious for you, Johan, how would you interact with that question? How might you respond to that?
Yeah. I'm going to take us outside just not at the Christian land, but you know, just other things that help us remember. I'm a history nerd. I love history.
I grew up in Eastern Europe as a mystery kid. And one of the cool things that I got to do is visit like these really cool historic locations that are like hundreds of years old. I mean, you visit Europe so many times. So you know what I'm talking about.
And for example, Auschwitz, the concentration camp. I mean, it's a remembrance for us to see and remember like that really happened. Different castles of kings and queens and the Lacy that they have left. Those are all different things that help us remember like, wow, this really happened.
And because that has happened, it defines us where we are here today. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that Eric pulls out that C.S.
Lewis quote I think during this message to about people need to be reminded more than they need to be instructed. That's good because as we look back to the past, there's lessons that inform our present reality and how we want to interact with God ourselves and others in the future. Right. So I think that's kind of what this question is getting at is remembrance as a part of the passage as we look back.
Those are significant moments and markers for us to remind ourselves of what God has done. And he forms our current story. And as we mentioned, we're going to listen to the future too. I really like the distinction between recall and remember.
Let's get to talk about that. Yeah. And that's on the lack of leader guide. And yeah, I actually didn't think of it like that until I read this, right?
That recalling is just information we call. Whereas remembering is looking back, but also that has an impact upon how I live my life today, right? And so just having that distinction in terms of recall and remember, I think was just a healthy distinction for me. Yeah.
So I'll be that I find very helpful is potentially we will be leading the lack of leader discussion. And that's the first thing that Jude notes in verse five, right? He starts out with that. Now I want to remind you, so he's pointing towards important, important, so remembrance.
And then he goes on, we won't read the full verses here for you today, but he goes on to recall several moments in Israel's past. And there's a common thing that comes alongside of it, whether it's those that were set free from captivity in Egypt, but then they wandered, whether that was those like inside of Gamora that committed sexual immorality, he goes on to list examples that they would have for us. We may know some of these, but we have to go back and interact with them. But the examples, the story that he tells in these six verses where the original readers are like, I know exactly who we're talking about.
Yeah, I know exactly the context there. And so he's wanting them to remind what is going on with these people. What do you think he's calling out? What are the commonalities with the stories and those that he mentions in these verses?
What do you think he's wanting us to see there? Yeah, I think our senior pastor Eric Geiger, he just sums it up very well. They didn't hold on to the fact that Jesus is not right. I think that's just the common denominator that goes through all those stories.
When I first read that passage, I'm like, well, that's a lot of Old Testament context. Like, oh my goodness, like do I need to bust out my study Bible and go through all that? But I love how our senior pastors walked us through in terms of what's that common denominator? Yeah.
It's saying all of the veil to recognize in their own giving context that Jesus was not whether it's the way that they worshiped or approached God or life or the important decision that they made, it's falling away from confessing, not at salvation, but just in their life continuously failing to confess that, hey, Jesus is not. Yeah, he drives that point home in verse eight, right? Where he says, in the same way, these people that we just mentioned that we talked about and he's going to list more of the continuing verses relied on their own dreams, they defiled their flesh, they rejected authority and slandered glorious ones. So all of what you're saying, that's it.
That they relied on their own way, their own effort, their own sort of desires to drive their actions, to get some sort of, you know, something out of God for themselves that they went away from the foundational teaching of who God is and what he was calling him to do. And that's not just a them thing, right? We do that ourselves, don't we? Prone to wonder.
That's our story too. So that's what you want to draw out in the look down section. There's some leader notes here and Eric does a fantastic job of getting more context to the examples that are listed in these verses. But the main thing you want to drive away from is the self-reliance going going their own way.
That's it. Great. Which is going to be helpful when we turn towards the lookout then. Remember, the lookout is designed to help you think about, okay, here's the main points, the truth of the passage.
Now, where do I see this passage outward in the world around me? It's not so much for, okay, your story at this point, we're going to get there to look in, but this is having you think more out there. So the question here is, what examples can you think of for the world in which people might have mislept or abused their followers or even within the church and how does Jews warning apply to such situations? Or you could even ask a question along the lines of, yeah, what does it look like when people walk away from truth?
Was it look like people pursue their own way? Where have you seen it? How would you interact with those two cuts of that question? Yeah.
I'm going through the Netflix series on cults. There you go. Just in your spare time. Yeah.
And there are more than a few of them. In Korean culture, it's a very religious culture. And so, I mean, we have so many cults and I'm not proud of that. It's being a Korean market.
But just seeing, just the devastating impact it has of people being misled from the truth. And it starts with that deviating from Jesus enough to, I'm going to trust my instincts. I'm going to be the truth. And people falling, the false truth just destroying lives, families.
And just seeing the impact it has just fallen, that documentary just crushed my heart. And it's not just staying on a documentary. I personally even know friends who've been sucked into cults and some have returned praise the Lord, some are still in there. But just to see that just really breaks my heart that the impact it has deviating from the streets.
So it gives, I think too, a warning for me personally to hold on to the truth as Jesus is all holding on to me. That's the first thing. And secondly is, I think it's also serves as a warning for the church, but also an encouragement to hold on to the truth and throw it on to the truth. And that's exactly what Jude is committing to the church.
That's right. Last week or not, Ken, I was at a robotic, he said, you had life speakers and other congregations, but the message was, right beliefs, right behavior, right? And then a lifestyle that points to you, Jesus is, and anytime those things get misaligned, they're we're in trouble, right? But we need to constantly be reminding ourselves that man, we need to contend for the faith that's been delivered once and for all.
And when we start to deviate from that, like actually we see our actions affected, we see our relationships affected. And so what we believe, how we believe, how we outwork, what we believe is really important, and that's the crush of Jude's letter here is reminding folks to bring yourself back in alignment, just with your thinking and your doctrine about what your behavior is as well. That's good. Turning towards the look yet, the question here, and Eric actually really puts some questions on the tee that we'll talk about here that aren't listed in your leader guy, but this question is a great one.
How can we encourage one another to persevere the faith without making people feel overly paranoid about their standing with God? What do you think's behind that question, Yohan? And how would you interact? Well, I really love the doctrine of perseverance.
Yeah. That once they've always saved, then, and that or salvation, not just the beginning of it, but till the end of it hinges upon God. And that just gives me so much time. Because it means that not only does my past history or my present shortcoming, that doesn't affect it, but even the future mistakes that I will make in my lifetime can't change my selfishness.
That's good news. That's amazing. And that gives me confidence that the decision that I will make good or bad in the future is not going to impact that. And man, I find so much joy and confidence in that.
That's good. Then Eric, I think he does a great job leading us through the rest of his message. And it's not listed in your group questions, but these are some questions that are going to help you, I think, right? When we start talking about self-reliance.
It's acknowledged at first, right? It's confession. God helped me rely more on you in the area of whatever that is. Where do you need to rely on him more?
What are those things that draw you away from him towards self-preservation? Where do you try to rely upon your own self, your own thoughtfulness to prove your worth to others? I mean, there's so much that you can say there. And then God should teach me what it means to release that to you more in this area.
I mean, there's so much time that you can spend on that. I mean, I know probably for me it would be around church for a long time. It's been around for a long time. And there can be a self-reliance upon just my prior experience, the things that I think I know and I understand, even a reliance upon is I'm thinking about it now, like past stories as you were talking about North Irvine and so energized about the stories that you've seen and where you've seen God at work.
I have that currently. I have a lot of those in the past. And I think in my moments of self-reliance, I could look back at just what God has done something about. And you used to talk about this, different term of remembrance and recall, just to remember something that happened and not have it affect what I'm doing currently.
You know what I mean? Yeah. So have an experience be a marker of self-reliance, even something that I often have got to acknowledge. Sure.
And we're might you even lean towards self-reliance of what you need, what you need to be reminded? Oh, totally. I think this is straight for me personally, as we just introduced in the beginning of the podcast of, for me to step into this new year, I'll leave Pastor. This is just this is straight down my alley.
I need to be reminded constantly, multiple times a day that I can't be relying on my own past experience or failures, rather than I need to be constantly looking to God. I love how Eric shared how even as a senior pastor, like God was calling him just to worship rather than pull out his notebook and his laptop rather, just God was calling him to worship. I just love how even our senior pastor is by example, wrestling with that. And it's just a clear reminder for me that as I'm doing ministry, you can actually do ministry, relying not on God, not on yourself.
And that's just, you know, it's a great reminder for me as well. And it costs him calling just to cling on to Jesus. Self-reliance, savor, reliance, right? Reliance, right?
Reliance on him and what he's already done. His finished work is the best thing to rely on. Oh, well, we can't add anything to it. We're useless when we try to do that.
Some people take that point and say, well, it sounds like Christianity is crutch then. And I always say, well, yeah, yeah, I'll take it because what does a crutch do? It helps you stand. There you go.
And it's offered support that you can't conjure up in and of yourself. And so men, if our power is made perfect in weakness, then you know what? Yeah. Yeah, I need that.
If I didn't need that, then I would be full of self-reliance. But the fact that I acknowledge that I need that, you know, I know there's some broken parts and you can say about Christianity being in your crux, but actually there's some truth in that too. I mean, who doesn't need it? Yeah.
Yeah. I needed the older idea. I was telling my team yesterday, last night I was watching the silly show with my wife and I yawned and I yawned so hard that I strained my neck in a weird way. So wow.
Injury by yawning. That's a new thing. Wow. Yeah, I need help outside of myself and all the more in my spiritual formation as well.
That's awesome. Yeah. Thanks so much for joining us. Any closing thoughts you want to leave people with before we wrap up today?
Cling to Jesus. Come on, bud. Cling to Jesus. That's what I'm talking about.
All right. Like your glitters. Thanks so much. As always praying for you, believe in the gods doing great things in and through your life groups.
We'll see you next week. Okay.