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A few weeks ago, we spoke with Inspector Stephen Glow of the RCMP. He's an active member of the force. And the inspector spoke with us about concerns that he has for his police force. He loves the RCMP.
He loves working with the RCMP. He loves the people who work at the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. But he has very serious concerns about what is going on and what has been going on. And he's very open and very direct talking to us about what his concerns are.
And, Inspector Stephen Glow, Inspector, good to have you back on the program. I must say to you that after we spoke for the first time, I was concerned about what might happen as far as any disciplinary action against you or toward you for coming on this program and outlining what your concerns for the RCMP are. Did anything like that happen? First of all, thanks for inviting me back.
And, yeah, that makes two of us. I was pretty timid to see what was going to happen. And, you know, much to my surprise, I actually got a call from the committee officer of this division who invited me to come in and speak with him. And we agreed to do that on a, if you will, at a third-party location.
And we did follow through with that. At the time, he informed me that, you know, there was no disciplinary actions that were going to come as a result of what went on until that point in time. And then we had a conversation. And this is an interesting conversation, Roy, because this individual plays a key part into what had encouraged me to come forward, and not in a positive way, but in a negative way.
And we had that conversation. That was good. It was a good first step. Because at our level, Roy, we should be able to talk, that's for sure.
But the true test is going to be what comes in that talk. We can all talk a good game. But the fact is going to be what results are going to happen as a result of that conversation. And I can't tell you that right now, because I haven't seen any results of that conversation.
But I'll definitely keep you close to that. Today, maybe a whole new kettle of fish. I might find myself in deeper water today, but that's okay. Well, what was the response as well from the men and women in the ranks to your being on the program, and speaking as openly as you did about what your concerns are?
Oh, you know what? It was nothing shy of a... It was a beautiful response from rank-and-file, from employees of all different categories, because for me, what that did is that that confirmed what we were saying here, what I was saying, that confirmed that this is happening all across the country. And I know every story has two sides, including my own.
You're just hearing my side. But so many employees wrote in, and Roy, I swear to God, when I was reading them, I would think, this is exactly what's happening to me. I mean, it's very clear the system is broken, and it is broken straight across the country, and stuff is being done where I truly believe ethics and values come into play, and everybody seems to be in the same boat. That should raise the flag up the pole to the federal government to say, hey, we need to pay attention to this.
Now, in your letter, or your email to Mr. Goodale, the federal public safety minister, and it's December the 8th, next Friday, that you're going to demonstrate outside his office. Not tomorrow, I'm saying tomorrow, so I'm wrong about that. It's next Friday that it's going to happen.
That's right, this coming Friday, that's correct. So, in your letter, you say very clearly, I welcome anyone to attend who are willing to show peacefully for their family or friends serving in the RCMP, and even for those who do not wish to attend as caring citizens. Nonetheless, I will be there by myself. Here's what I want to read.
Let me assure you that I have no lawsuit against my organization, the RCMP. I have no lawyer or intention to sue the organization. In fact, I love the RCMP and what it stands for, and most of all, I love our employees who serve this country in many ways. Also, I want to see the force survive and prosper if people are not listening to what is happening.
This includes you, sir, Mr. Goodale. So, Stephen, what, again, specifically concerns you about what's going on within the RCMP? What needs to be addressed?
And you know, I've had many conversations with women in the RCMP who found themselves on the receiving end. They've told us many times of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and we know that the class-actual lawsuits apparently are going to be settled by the federal government. So, what is it that concerns you about what's going on? Well, I think, much like I wrote in that same email, I mean, the issues that concern me have been described over the last decade in 15 different reviews to the force.
You know, and out of those 15 different reviews, you know, there have been 200 recommendations made from those for reform, and unfortunately, few of those have been implemented. You know, it was, and it all dealt with, I mean, you look at the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission review done, as asked by Ralph Goodale to do this review, and they presented their findings in the review this year, you know, and there's decades of RCMP that we have struggled with bullying, workplace harassment, sexual assault, and, you know, intimidation. These are the factors that still exist. 15 different reviews have identified these over the last, you know, 10 years, and nothing is being done about it.
Internally, our senior management is not willing to make those changes. And from what I can, this is my opinion, clearly see at this stage, you know what, the federal government is not interested in making these changes, and if they are, they're certainly not interested in making it in consultation with the employees of the organization. And that includes sexual harassment. That includes, you know, the whole nepotism, the corruption piece.
That includes the lack of integrity to stand up and own something, much like what's going on with the Monkton shootings, which is another whole issue in itself, but very much one that is an example of what's taking place across the force. You know, the sexual harassment, when that's sick and sweet, Roy, that really, really sick and sweet. We all understand the relationships happen in work environments, but don't confuse that with sexual harassment. You know, we start off these conversations with, oh, if a woman shows up to work, that's what you're saying, you know what, a woman shows up to work.
It shouldn't matter what she's dressed like. It shouldn't matter how nice she is. It shouldn't matter, oh, if she looks at me for an extra second. Or, you know what, as the OIC, it shouldn't matter if she comes up and gives me a hug at the end of the day.
That doesn't give me the right to touch her breasts. That doesn't give me the right to ask her to perform sexual acts in order to advance her career or possible, you know, get a nice assignment out of it. That just shouldn't be tolerated, but we've been doing it for so long. And like you said earlier, others have said this is happening.
This has happened for years and generations and huge time gaps. But, you know, this has to stop. This has to stop. We are commissioned officers in the RCMP, and goddammit, we have to act like it.
And that means not sexually harassing or putting up for sexual harassment in the workplace. It's just so unacceptable. You've sent him emails, you went to his office, you've asked to meet with the minister, you're a serving inspector in the RCMP. Apparently, he doesn't want to meet with you.
That's pretty clear. What do you want to say? If he sits down with you, and I think he should, what do you want to say to the man? Well, I want Ralph to hear things from our perspective.
And like I said, I've got no chip in this game. I'm not looking to become the commissioner. I'm not looking for a lawsuit settlement. I don't have a lawyer.
So really, it's a non-threat type position. What I want him to do is hear what the membership, what I think the membership feels is important. You know, you want to hear from a commission officer internally who's got nothing to lose? You know what?
I'll tell you the way it is, and I've actually got another commission officer recently retired who's willing to come forward with me, a man of very high value and ethics and integrity, and willing to sit there and tell Ralph Goodell, here's what's broken with the system. Well, not just leave it at that, but here's some suggestions we have, you know, on how it can be rectified to address them. You know, we want to bring the concerns of our employees to him. But, you know, the Sanford is, just like you said, he's not listening to me.
The federal government is not listening to me. If it was conservatives in there, I don't know if they would even listen. The government acted, for example, on Phoenix pay system. You're familiar with that, I assume, right?
You see how quick they acted to that when they realized they were being affected by it? They immediately stopped that. Oh, we're not putting our pay on that. And then, you know, they were forced into acting on it for our civilian members to put a freeze on that, and let's not convert them.
The prime minister, the MLAs, the MPs, the individuals that enjoy the right of sitting in the Senate, stand up and stand up for those that stand up for you. Our people are out there protecting them. We are working day and night and ensuring that Canadians stay safe. For God darn sake, you know, stand up as a politician and stand up for those who stand up for you.
It would be appropriate for Mr. Goodell to meet with you. I think it would also be appropriate for your colleagues to be there with you. Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely. I agree with you. I mean, a lot of the current serving ones are scared. They're caught in the system that they're going to speak up.
Like we say, who knows what's going to happen today? They could nail me to a cross-quarter me or do whatever. No, they're not going to do that. Yeah, that's a little extreme.
I'm sorry. I'm just saying there's a lot of Canadians who would be saying, no, you don't. At the end of today, you know what, or at the end of this week, the overall goal is to get someone to listen. You know, Stephen, I've seen this before where one person says enough is enough.
I've seen enough, I've heard enough. It's a great organization, but things have to change. And it's almost one person who gets up and says it. One person who has the testicular courage to get up and say what needs to be said.
And then eventually, you sometimes see, not always, but you sometimes see other people stand up and say, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I agree. And out of that can start a significant movement and a significant improvement of the situation. Nobody knows how it all turns out. But if no one steps up, and we've heard so many issues, particularly with women in the RCMP, and I can go back to 1980 and find a newspaper or magazine story where MPs in Parliament were arguing about sexual harassment of RCMP women in 1980.
Here we are in 2017. So if nobody stands up, nothing's going to change. You're standing up. You're asking the Federal Public Safety Minister to meet with you.
You're in Regina. He's in Regina. What do you know next Friday afternoon, Mr. Goodell?
It's so important that you can't meet with Inspector Glow. I like that, you know, Roy, and I hope a lot of other people ask that question. We can say in particular, as commissioned officers, we wear a white shirt, which we're supposed to wear with pride as leaders. But you know what?
It's time we start leading. Leading our people. And if we all band together, or the majority of the inspectors and the supers, superintendents band together, you know what? Somebody's got to start listening to us.
But fear. Fear of why women don't speak out when they're sexually harassed. Fear of why people don't speak out when they know something's wrong. I mean, we're police officers from the National Police Force.
Inspector, I have literally 15 seconds. So it's next Friday, 2 o'clock, Saskatchewan time. 2 o'clock, Saskatchewan time. In front of Minister Goodell's office.
Yes. We'll talk to you next weekend and find out how things went. You got it, buddy. Thank you so much.
Take care, Inspector Glow. Okay, thank you. Bye-bye. Stephen Glow, Inspector, and the RCMP.
We're back after this.