How AT&T's CEO Just Exposed the Engagement Survey Con Game

Kelli and Nolan critically examine employee engagement surveys, arguing they're performative exercises for disconnected executives rather than meaningful tools for understanding and improving workplace sentiment.In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: [email protected] coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Related article:https://www.businessinsider.com/att-ceo-memo-workplace-loyalty-dead-employees-job-security-2025-8 Nolan's Linkedin post:https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nolan-church_when-can-we-eliminate-employee-engagement[…]m=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAWcjXgBb3Jw6dX16PD9lRJSsxfgqVAqZLw—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:50) The 73% Response Rate That Changed Nothing(02:18) Devil's Advocate: Why Companies Think They Need Surveys(03:34) The Second Order Problem: Getting Data, Doing Nothing(04:30) "Get Out of the Ivory Tower"(05:28) Exit Interviews vs. Real Conversations(06:41) The Employee Perspective: Anonymous Survey Skepticism(07:37) The Performative Dance Exposed(08:43) Surveys as Substitutes for Real Leadership(09:13) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(11:41) Better Alternative: Executives in the Dirt(13:25) The Venture Capital Leadership Model(14:49) The Small Minority That Actually Cares(15:40) The Semantics Problem: Stop Saying "Engagement"(17:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com