How Es Devlin creates concert spectacles on stage + DJ Karaba on how giving up on one dream can open the door to another

When Es Devlin was growing up and going to concerts, and looked at the stage, she saw an opportunity for improvement. It’s that very aspiration to make concerts look better that’s lef her to a groundbreaking career in set design, working with the likes of Adele, Beyoncé, and The Rolling Stones. Ed joins Tom to talk about the music that inspired her artistic direction, how experiencing art is multi-sensory, and what it was like designing the set for the 2022 Super Bowl halftime show. Plus, DJ Karaba walked away from her lifelong dream at the height of her success —she was a backup dancer for artists like Drake, Selena Gomez, and Camilla Cabello. Now, DJ Karaba is pursuing a new dream, making music of her own. DJ Karaba tells Tom about her new Juno nominated song Mad Mess, how her experience as a dancer helps her create dance music, and how she found the courage to start anew in her creative career.