How Eucalyptus's CEO thinks about measurement, creative bets, and why brand vs. performance is a false choice

In this episode, Tim Doyle makes the case that attribution systems create false precision and that the real job of marketing is moving people from one state to another. He talks through how Eucalyptus found early wins by spotting mispriced channels before anyone else, from long-form YouTube to outdoor to Grindr. He's also pretty skeptical of Meta's self-reported incrementality, and explains why this moment, more than any before it, rewards people who are good at ideas.About the guest:Tim Doyle is the CEO of Eucalyptus, the Australian health and wellness company behind brands including Juniper, Pilot, and Software, which was acquired by Hims & Hers in early 2026. He grew up in marketing before moving into the CEO role and brings an unusually hands-on perspective on measurement, creative strategy, and capital allocation. He is one of the few CEOs who can credibly hold both the marketing and finance conversation at once.