This is Cynthia of Heart of the Matter radio for women seeking the elegance of God's wisdom. In 1982, I was spending time with a friend who dropped by and we both looked out the window and saw snow coming down. It was coming down very hard and it was laying on the grass and it was laying on the road and that does not happen much in Atlanta. She left immediately and I began to worry about my husband.
I already called and I couldn't get him at work. And that year was what they called Snow Jam 82. Nobody had predicted snow and we got slammed. The whole city was frozen and nobody could move.
So that was an unexpected thing. Now these days they predict snow, we don't have snow, they predict snow, we don't have snow. That was a situation where it came totally out of the blue and things like that could happen especially when someone starts talking to you. Sometimes you learn things that you don't expect.
Especially with Jesus. Well today I have Brenda point that with me and she has written a book about things that Jesus said to women that really surprised them. Welcome Brenda. Hi glad to be with you today.
Brenda one of the things that I like that you said was that when Jesus spoke he came from a much richer background and he took into consideration a whole lot more than just that one situation. I really like that. I like it too. And to do this study on the surprising things he said to women helped me to get to knowing better.
I think we're all in a position if we're not careful to take the people in our lives for granted assume we really know them and we can do the same thing with Jesus. And so this was insightful to me to look back many many years ago and immerse myself into the situations that he was in and listen in on the conversations that he had with women. And I found that many of those things that he said were surprising to me. You know one of the things that brought to mind was that years ago C.S.
Lewis had talked about that spiritual is so different in the physical realm and he would say that it's like talking to your dog about the telephone because the telephone is not a dog thing and in regards of how long you discussed that the dog will never really understand it and that kind of helped me get there. And so that's what you're talking about is that when Jesus spoke he had a depth about him that really blew people away. Can you give us an example of that Brenda? Well the one that thinks about everybody the most about this book is the one that he said to the siro-fernation woman.
He was busy with his disciples he had tried to escape and get away from the crowd so that he could train his disciples and so they had gone into Gentile territory and hid themselves in a house so that they would not be disturbed so that he could teach them. And then some woman comes barging in with this request about her daughter and she was not Jewish. They were in Gentile territory. She was not a Jew and she was a Gentile she referred to in the Bible as the siro-fernation woman and she entered requesting that Jesus help her that she had a demon possessed daughter and she begged Jesus to help her.
And so you would expect knowing Jesus the way we do knowing that he's often described as a compassionate person and certainly as a compassionate God our expectation from our viewpoint would be that he would just readily respond to a mother who is upset, who's bothered, who's concerned about her child. Look at the people that he healed and we would say then that Jesus is just going to readily respond to her. But he didn't. He didn't.
At first he's just quiet. Doesn't say anything. And she keeps on hollering out at him wanting him to help her and the disciples are so upset with her so bothered by her they just want to send her away just to be away with her. And then Jesus makes a statement to them.
He says I've been sent only to the lost chief of the people of Israel and the people of Israel would be the Jews of course. And so he's looking at them saying this but she hears she hears that he would think that would put her off. But it doesn't. This is one persistent mother.
And so she comes and falls at his feet begging him. Help me sir, she said. And then Jesus says another thing that is surprising to us. He said it isn't right to take the children's food and throw it through the dog.
So that sounds to us just like he's calling her a dog. And so going back and then you were talking about the CS Lewis and getting the whole background that perspective really helps us there. The dog that he was mentioning here was not a wild dog of the streets but it was like a cuddly little dog like like many people have today. A section of little house dog.
And so that's what he's referring to. Nevertheless, the point is that she is a Gentile and the Gentiles were thought of dogs. And so once again it sounds like total resistance on his part. But she is a remarkable woman.
She comes back and says that's true sir. But even the dogs eat the leftovers that fall from the master's table. And then it's just like I'm putting a little of my interpretation into this. But it's just like in a big smile comes across Jesus's face and he says you are a woman of great faith.
What you want will be done for you. And at that very moment her daughter was healed. It was almost like Jesus was putting her through this process of mental gymnastics so that he could really bring the quality of her faith to life. Here was an earnest woman and he was overjoyed by what he saw in her and how remarkable her faith was.
Right. And you know on the surface it does sound cold for him to have done that because you know she's already in pain. Right. And also he had said to Abraham that he was going to bless the entire world through him.
So this salvation yes they were thinking it just came to Israel but it was really for the whole world and he did want to include her too. So he probably had a little twinkle in his eye. Yes and I think that Matthew and Mark included it in their gospels to really show it's a prophetic statement that part of it. It's going to show how it's all going to unfold.
Came to the Jews first and that's how we see it unfold in the book of Acts and then it opens up so that the gospel is for the Gentile so the gospel is for the whole world. Right. Right. He was gracious to her because he let her have what she was asking for.
There's the graciousness. There's the kindness. Indeed. What is one of your other favorite stories that's very surprising in the New Testament?
Well my favorite I don't know that that's all that much of a surprise that I might have had in some of the other instances. But I tell you the ones that that I respond to that that really ministered to me personally as I said in the book was when he said to the widow of name don't cry. And when he said to the bent over wall woman dollar at least. Now what touches me in both of those instances was that they never asked him to do anything.
That he saw their need and responded to their need and met their need. That really touches me because I for a long time I've been an ardent student of the word and I work hard to try to fulfill that word and live by it. And so it's like it almost came to me. I have to.
I have to do all these things. It's all on my end of it. I have to do the approaching. I have to do of following the guidelines before you'll ever bless me.
And it was just so insightful in these two instances that he blessed them without their ever asking that he saw their need and he came and met their need. Now that really touches my heart. You know I think there are times that we are so wounded that we can't go. And even if we did go we wouldn't know what to ask for because we're just so broken.
I think it says to us a little in our Christian life and also that it says to us come as you are. There are those two wonderful examples in the one section of the book that I have on. He talked with who but she's you know these two chapters the women are sinners. And they come to him.
I just think that that's a reminder here that no one needs to stay away from him. These these were both well one is known as a notorious woman and notorious center and the other is the woman that he was caught in adultery. Not committing adultery. In both of these instances Jesus forgave them.
Let them know that their sins were forgiven and let them know that there was a life ahead for them. And I think when you put all these women together that I examine in the book and look at their situation that this is what the message is for all of us. Come as you are. Don't hesitate.
Because you got to wait till a better day or till things are more right or tell you are have got some other things cleared up in your life. How many of you are on today? I remember my husband it was about six seven years ago when he was in the hospital seriously ill and I had been with him all day. We were an intermediate intensive care unit.
And I remember one day I had been studying my Bible and doing some studying reading and so on but I was just really tired. I remember spitting on my pen and just putting my hand on my forehead and saying oh God you know I really wish there were some flowers in here. And it was at five minutes until someone knocked on my door and brought flowers. And I thought okay Lord you had this planned.
And you had to plan away because somebody had to call the florist and start getting flowers and have the planning he had. So I think that what we can learn about Jesus is that he knows the weak spots. He knows the hard moments ahead. And I think there are times in hard times that he comes along and has his grace there ready for us.
And he was there where that paraphernation woman was. That's amazing right there. He was there when she needed him. And I think God does that.
It's a beautiful thing. So what do you think we can learn from this besides just he's there? What are the depths of some of the things that you have learned? Well I think the things that he says to the woman at the well and to Martha are both really important things theologically.
In fact that's what started me on this study. I wrote another book called Wonder Women of the Bible. And as I was researching for that I ran across a statement that said some of the most astonishing things Jesus ever said were said to women. And I thought what are those?
What are those things? And so I looked him up and they were referring to this claim when he said to the woman at the well I am the living water. He also said to her I am the Messiah. When he said that to her I am the Messiah that is the first time that he says out loud to anyone that he is the Messiah.
When we look back at the scriptures and we read it we know that he is. But when you think about it at the time how significant that was for him to actually verbally say out loud to someone I am the Messiah it's remarkable that he said it to a Samaritan woman who was living a sinful life. And then the other thing the other astonishing thing he said theologically is that he said to Martha I and the resurrection and the life. And the other is great depth to all three of those statements.
I am the living water. I am the Messiah. I am the resurrection and the life. That's amazing.
You know a lot of time in the New Testament especially in the three synoptic gospels he doesn't announce himself as a Messiah quite as clearly he does in the book of John he will often lapse into third person talking about himself. He will start talking about him when he is actually meaning himself. So I think it's interesting that he was outside of Israel when he said that to the Lady of the well maybe it's because you need it to be more clear but I think he wanted people to come to that conclusion by watching what he was doing because the Old Testament did say the Messiah is going to do some of these things. They wanted him to watch and come to a conclusion or he wanted them to do that.
Yes that's right and he more often referred himself as the son of man but he didn't go around saying I am the Messiah. I'm here. This is it. This is the way it's supposed to play out.
But he did it was kind of like it was an evolving process as he worked with his disciples and he taught the crowds because they could begin to see him and what his power was and what he was like that this was his way of revealing you know when John the Baptist was in doubt and he sent his followers to him. That was the reason he responded to you seeing what I've done. You've seen these things and this is your evidence and at that point he didn't even say I am the Messiah. Right because he wanted him to come to that conclusion and the word son of man I mean that little phrase there I mean all of them were sons of men and women you know so it's just kind of interesting that he chose that phrase.
Do you have an opinion on why he chose that phrase? No I don't I don't deal with that in the book but if I'm having talked to Testament I think it's a term so that he could identify with humanity and that they could identify with him. Okay because really he was the son of God he was the son of a woman physically not a man but I've noticed that. You know the son of man would emphasize his human side and you know we need to learn from him Jesus is coming wasn't just about his dying.
Jesus is coming was also the teachers about how to live and so we needed we needed that someone to show us that we could identify with but this could be possible in our own lives so there had to be that that connection there that we can look at him and we can identify with him that's that's one of the things that I developed in another book of mine called Not My Will that there have to be a point of identification or else we can't or won't take things left and from his life and incorporate them in our own that we don't see it as a possibility for us. Right he was revealing God and he was also revealing a healthy lifestyle which we needed to see you know because we were so bent you know I've been thinking about how I've never heard anyone say I came from a normal family they're always saying boy I came from a messed up family and I'm thinking yeah we're all messed up. Well you do hear that's elder that's true. You hear you hear more about the messed up because we are.
You do that's that's right and that's really too bad because we do have healthy families out there and who who raise children who who don't have these hard stories to tell about dysfunctional families right we really need to praise those families more. That's right but you know I think every parent probably has his own little twist somewhere that might make him do something odd so but Christ came as a perfect child perfect man and boy there are times I'd like to just take a peek at the relationship with his mom you know what would it have been like and with his dad how would he have done that you know God didn't let us see that but obviously he showed us how he ministered to people beautiful stories there. We do have I do have a couple of chapters in the book on how he related to his mother and that one is the chapter which I'm sure that you've read woman what have I to do with me then the one from the cross when he said to her woman behold your son and in the one woman behold your son I also include in there another statement that he made to her which is why the words from the cross part of why the words from the cross are so remarkable is when she became concerned about him because of the stories that she heard this is after you know his ministry was really where his ministry was highly popular and lots of people were surrounding him and he was doing miraculous things and rumors were getting back to her that he might be deranged and because of the exorcisms that he did so she and her some of her children went to try to get him to come home you know she was like many of us mothers we want to protect our children tried to get him to come home and he wouldn't have anything to do with her or his siblings he wouldn't come out from the building that he was in to even talk to them because his he said that his his family were those who do the will of God and you think about hearing that as a mother how how hurtful that would be and yet you know Mary was still faithful and she was still there at the foot of the cross when he did die and and then Jesus was words to her woman behold your son when he gives her to John and to John he said behold your mother but he makes this connection for me it shows that family is still very important to him it's just that you know he had his mission that he had to do he break from that and go back to his family but I'm you know I'm writing the book from the viewpoint of being a mother of being a woman and so I'm looking at these things how we how we might look at them today and how we might look at them with our hearts and that's why it was important for me to get behind a lot of these statements in order to understand what was really going on and that helps me understand Jesus better right well you think about the pain he was under on the cross and yet he still was looking after his mother at that point because as the oldest son she would be his responsibility in that culture and he made sure that she would be taken care of so that's extremely sensitive and on the other hand she knew that he was going to leave and do his ministry because she'd been told that from the angel who came so yeah he was considerate of her when it was important but he wasn't going to talk to her about not being crazy because he had work to do so those are both appropriate situations that's right and then you see you know fascinating because then you see a lot of the dynamics part is to me as I studied in research these incidents you see a lot of the dynamics the interplay that goes on that it wasn't a simple thing that he came or no you're a simple thing that he died and so studying these words that he said to women just helped me to appreciate all the more his life his ministry and his death and resurrection right he was a very unusual man because he was a god man but you know if you study his life you see how he was appropriate every time he needed to say something he said it appropriately and today they talk about boundaries he had said a boundary and that's look I'm ministering I got a new my job so he was very appropriate in all of his relationships yes he was appropriate but sometimes it's hard for us to understand that without taking a deeper look at the scene in the whole context of what he was involved in which is what I tried to do in the chapters in the book and that's why I want to thank you for doing it because we need people like you who are out there ministering to us by showing us but taking a deeper look at this because the Bible is not shallow there's plenty of stuff that you can get way over your head real quickly so I want to thank you for doing this for writing this book and for sharing time with me well it's my pleasure both the writing and getting to talk with you today and I hope that you'll delve into the rest of the book okay and you're at Brenda Point Set dot com correct that's correct thank you all right thank you Cynthia