How Machines Learn to Ignore the Noise (Kevin Ellis + Zenna Tavares) episode artwork

EPISODE · Apr 8, 2025 · 1H 16M

How Machines Learn to Ignore the Noise (Kevin Ellis + Zenna Tavares)

from Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)

Prof. Kevin Ellis and Dr. Zenna Tavares talk about making AI smarter, like humans. They want AI to learn from just a little bit of information by actively trying things out, not just by looking at tons of data.They discuss two main ways AI can "think": one way is like following specific rules or steps (like a computer program), and the other is more intuitive, like guessing based on patterns (like modern AI often does). They found combining both methods works well for solving complex puzzles like ARC.A key idea is "compositionality" - building big ideas from small ones, like LEGOs. This is powerful but can also be overwhelming. Another important idea is "abstraction" - understanding things simply, without getting lost in details, and knowing there are different levels of understanding.Ultimately, they believe the best AI will need to explore, experiment, and build models of the world, much like humans do when learning something new.SPONSOR MESSAGES:***Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich. Goto https://tufalabs.ai/***TRANSCRIPT:https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ngggvhb3tnemw879er5y/BASIS.pdf?rlkey=lr2zbj3317mex1q5l0c2rsk0h&dl=0 Zenna Tavares:http://www.zenna.org/Kevin Ellis:https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~ellisk/TOC:1. Compositionality and Learning Foundations [00:00:00] 1.1 Compositional Search and Learning Challenges [00:03:55] 1.2 Bayesian Learning and World Models [00:12:05] 1.3 Programming Languages and Compositionality Trade-offs [00:15:35] 1.4 Inductive vs Transductive Approaches in AI Systems2. Neural-Symbolic Program Synthesis [00:27:20] 2.1 Integration of LLMs with Traditional Programming and Meta-Programming [00:30:43] 2.2 Wake-Sleep Learning and DreamCoder Architecture [00:38:26] 2.3 Program Synthesis from Interactions and Hidden State Inference [00:41:36] 2.4 Abstraction Mechanisms and Resource Rationality [00:48:38] 2.5 Inductive Biases and Causal Abstraction in AI Systems3. Abstract Reasoning Systems [00:52:10] 3.1 Abstract Concepts and Grid-Based Transformations in ARC [00:56:08] 3.2 Induction vs Transduction Approaches in Abstract Reasoning [00:59:12] 3.3 ARC Limitations and Interactive Learning Extensions [01:06:30] 3.4 Wake-Sleep Program Learning and Hybrid Approaches [01:11:37] 3.5 Project MARA and Future Research DirectionsREFS:[00:00:25] DreamCoder, Kevin Ellis et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381[00:01:10] Mind Your Step, Ryan Liu et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.21333[00:06:05] Bayesian inference, Griffiths, T. L., Kemp, C., & Tenenbaum, J. B.https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2008-06911-003[00:13:00] Induction and Transduction, Wen-Ding Li, Zenna Tavares, Yewen Pu, Kevin Ellishttps://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272[00:23:15] Neurosymbolic AI, Garcez, Artur d'Avila et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.05876[00:33:50] Induction and Transduction (II), Wen-Ding Li, Kevin Ellis et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272[00:38:35] ARC, François Chollethttps://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547[00:39:20] Causal Reactive Programs, Ria Das, Joshua B. Tenenbaum, Armando Solar-Lezama, Zenna Tavareshttp://www.zenna.org/publications/autumn2022.pdf[00:42:50] MuZero, Julian Schrittwieser et al.http://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.08265[00:43:20] VisualPredicator, Yichao Lianghttps://arxiv.org/abs/2410.23156[00:48:55] Bayesian models of cognition, Joshua B. Tenenbaumhttps://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049412/bayesian-models-of-cognition/[00:49:30] The Bitter Lesson, Rich Suttonhttp://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html[01:06:35] Program induction, Kevin Ellis, Wen-Ding Lihttps://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.02272[01:06:50] DreamCoder (II), Kevin Ellis et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381[01:11:55] Project MARA, Zenna Tavares, Kevin Ellishttps://www.basis.ai/blog/mara/

Prof. Kevin Ellis and Dr. Zenna Tavares talk about making AI smarter, like humans. They want AI to learn from just a little bit of information by actively trying things out, not just by looking at tons of data.They discuss two main ways AI can "think": one way is like following specific rules or steps (like a computer program), and the other is more intuitive, like guessing based on patterns (like modern AI often does). They found combining both methods works well for solving complex puzzles like ARC.A key idea is "compositionality" - building big ideas from small ones, like LEGOs. This is powerful but can also be overwhelming. Another important idea is "abstraction" - understanding things simply, without getting lost in details, and knowing there are different levels of understanding.Ultimately, they believe the best AI will need to explore, experiment, and build models of the world, much like humans do when learning something new.SPONSOR MESSAGES:***Tufa AI Labs is a brand new research lab in Zurich started by Benjamin Crouzier focussed on o-series style reasoning and AGI. They are hiring a Chief Engineer and ML engineers. Events in Zurich. Goto https://tufalabs.ai/***TRANSCRIPT:https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3ngggvhb3tnemw879er5y/BASIS.pdf?rlkey=lr2zbj3317mex1q5l0c2rsk0h&dl=0 Zenna Tavares:http://www.zenna.org/Kevin Ellis:https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~ellisk/TOC:1. Compositionality and Learning Foundations [00:00:00] 1.1 Compositional Search and Learning Challenges [00:03:55] 1.2 Bayesian Learning and World Models [00:12:05] 1.3 Programming Languages and Compositionality Trade-offs [00:15:35] 1.4 Inductive vs Transductive Approaches in AI Systems2. Neural-Symbolic Program Synthesis [00:27:20] 2.1 Integration of LLMs with Traditional Programming and Meta-Programming [00:30:43] 2.2 Wake-Sleep Learning and DreamCoder Architecture [00:38:26] 2.3 Program Synthesis from Interactions and Hidden State Inference [00:41:36] 2.4 Abstraction Mechanisms and Resource Rationality [00:48:38] 2.5 Inductive Biases and Causal Abstraction in AI Systems3. Abstract Reasoning Systems [00:52:10] 3.1 Abstract Concepts and Grid-Based Transformations in ARC [00:56:08] 3.2 Induction vs Transduction Approaches in Abstract Reasoning [00:59:12] 3.3 ARC Limitations and Interactive Learning Extensions [01:06:30] 3.4 Wake-Sleep Program Learning and Hybrid Approaches [01:11:37] 3.5 Project MARA and Future Research DirectionsREFS:[00:00:25] DreamCoder, Kevin Ellis et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381[00:01:10] Mind Your Step, Ryan Liu et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.21333[00:06:05] Bayesian inference, Griffiths, T. L., Kemp, C., & Tenenbaum, J. B.https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2008-06911-003[00:13:00] Induction and Transduction, Wen-Ding Li, Zenna Tavares, Yewen Pu, Kevin Ellishttps://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272[00:23:15] Neurosymbolic AI, Garcez, Artur d'Avila et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.05876[00:33:50] Induction and Transduction (II), Wen-Ding Li, Kevin Ellis et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.02272[00:38:35] ARC, François Chollethttps://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547[00:39:20] Causal Reactive Programs, Ria Das, Joshua B. Tenenbaum, Armando Solar-Lezama, Zenna Tavareshttp://www.zenna.org/publications/autumn2022.pdf[00:42:50] MuZero, Julian Schrittwieser et al.http://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.08265[00:43:20] VisualPredicator, Yichao Lianghttps://arxiv.org/abs/2410.23156[00:48:55] Bayesian models of cognition, Joshua B. Tenenbaumhttps://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049412/bayesian-models-of-cognition/[00:49:30] The Bitter Lesson, Rich Suttonhttp://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html[01:06:35] Program induction, Kevin Ellis, Wen-Ding Lihttps://arxiv.org/pdf/2411.02272[01:06:50] DreamCoder (II), Kevin Ellis et al.https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.08381[01:11:55] Project MARA, Zenna Tavares, Kevin Ellishttps://www.basis.ai/blog/mara/

NOW PLAYING

How Machines Learn to Ignore the Noise (Kevin Ellis + Zenna Tavares)

0:00 1:16:55

No transcript for this episode yet

We transcribe on demand. Request one and we'll notify you when it's ready — usually under 10 minutes.

French Your Way Jessica: Native French teacher founder of French Your Way Boost your French listening skills and test your comprehension with this one of a kind series of podcasts. Get the chance to listen to a real conversation between native speakers talking at normal speed AND customise your learning experience through carefully designed sets of questions (2 levels of difficulty) available for download at www.frenchvoicespodcast.com. All interviews also come with the transcript. French teacher Jessica interviews native speakers of French from around the world who share a bit of their life and passion. Where else would you meet in one same place a French yoga teacher based in Melbourne, a soap manufacturer from Provence, or a couple cycling around the world? Kaizen Blueprint Aldo Chandra "Kaizen" is a Japanese term for continuous improvement. This podcast provides a blueprint to learn about health, wealth, relationships and everything else in between. Through our podcast, we strive to inspire, educate, and motivate our audience to cultivate a mindset of lifelong learning, productivity, and personal development. By sharing insights, strategies, and practical tips, we aim to guide listeners on their journey towards realizing their fullest potential, fostering success, and creating lasting positive change. One Man Went To Row PepperDawesMedia Follow the journey, from training to finish line, of a man from Derby, UK who is going from having only ever rowed on a machine to rowing 3000 miles solo across the Atlantic...just after his 70th birthday! Humanizing Change Tremendousness Join us each episode as we talk with innovators in their respective fields about their unique journeys and how they humanize change in their own work, right here, on Humanizing Change.

Frequently Asked Questions

How long is this episode of Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST)?

This episode is 1 hour and 16 minutes long.

When was this Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST) episode published?

This episode was published on April 8, 2025.

What is this episode about?

Prof. Kevin Ellis and Dr. Zenna Tavares talk about making AI smarter, like humans. They want AI to learn from just a little bit of information by actively trying things out, not just by looking at tons of data.They discuss two main ways AI can...

Can I download this Machine Learning Street Talk (MLST) episode?

Yes, you can download this episode by clicking the download button on the episode player, or subscribe to the podcast in your preferred podcast app for automatic downloads.
URL copied to clipboard!