How Steve Jobs became Steve Jobs episode artwork

EPISODE · Jun 9, 2026 · 43 MIN

How Steve Jobs became Steve Jobs

from The Vergecast · host The Verge

Long before Steve Jobs was the unstoppable force of nature atop Apple, shipping hit product after hit product, he was practically run out of the company after a series of bad product and management decisions. But as Geoffrey Cain argues in his new book, Steve Jobs in Exile: The Untold Story of NeXT and the Remaking of an American Visionary, the 12 years Jobs spent outside of Apple turned him into the leader the world came to know. Cain joins the show to talk about Jobs' experiences at NeXT and Pixar, how Jobs learned to be a successful leader, and the true power — and danger — of the reality distortion field. Further reading: Steve Jobs in Exile Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11. (Timestamps are approximate.) 00:01:30 Intro 00:01:56 90 Seconds on The Verge 00:03:46 Interview with Geoffrey Cain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Long before Steve Jobs was the unstoppable force of nature atop Apple, shipping hit product after hit product, he was practically run out of the company after a series of bad product and management decisions. But as Geoffrey Cain argues in his new book, Steve Jobs in Exile: The Untold Story of NeXT and the Remaking of an American Visionary, the 12 years Jobs spent outside of Apple turned him into the leader the world came to know. Cain joins the show to talk about Jobs' experiences at NeXT and Pixar, how Jobs learned to be a successful leader, and the true power — and danger — of the reality distortion field. Further reading: Steve Jobs in Exile Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [email protected] or call us at 866-VERGE11. (Timestamps are approximate.) 00:01:30 Intro 00:01:56 90 Seconds on The Verge 00:03:46 Interview with Geoffrey Cain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

NOW PLAYING

How Steve Jobs became Steve Jobs

0:00 43:14

No transcript for this episode yet

We transcribe on demand. Request one and we'll notify you when it's ready — usually under 10 minutes.

Frequently Asked Questions

How long is this episode of The Vergecast?

This episode is 43 minutes long.

When was this The Vergecast episode published?

This episode was published on June 9, 2026.

What is this episode about?

Long before Steve Jobs was the unstoppable force of nature atop Apple, shipping hit product after hit product, he was practically run out of the company after a series of bad product and management decisions. But as Geoffrey Cain argues in his new...

Can I download this The Vergecast episode?

Yes, you can download this episode by clicking the download button on the episode player, or subscribe to the podcast in your preferred podcast app for automatic downloads.
URL copied to clipboard!