This is the best hang podcast featuring Max Gurman Shane Cunningham and I and Mike Bierman Welcome to the best hang podcast. I'm like we got Shane. We're all together coming back at you And if you listen to this podcast, you know if you follow our Kels, you know Maxi has a book coming out called try hard creative work in progress and you got a big event coming up Max I feel like you're doing a whole tour. You're like a book touring celeb at this point.
Yeah, Tuesday night in Toronto at my old high school Harvard collegiate 7 p.m. It is It is Conflicting with the Toronto Maple Leafs game to so we're up against that so it's a real test of friendship And you can only buy tickets in advance. You can't buy tickets to the door There's a lot of funny rules with the Toronto District school board when it comes to hosting public events Which I will get into either on this podcast or at the show. I think I'm gonna turn it into a bit at the show Wait, you're you're flying on a seat of your pants that much where you might have a whole bit dedicated towards it But you might not know I've been working on it I've been working on the beats of the show and I've called Mike about it What I guess this spot is gonna come up before the show so I can't talk too much about the show We'll do a breakdown of that specific event after the event.
Yeah, but there there are other ones, right? There's Calgary you're gonna Calgary Winnipeg I was on Thursday when it picks Friday and then Hamilton which is also that at odds are doing a few different seedings is on Sunday They really was all across the country. You boys have fans or you be readers all across the country So it's cool that you're doing this tour. I don't shit I don't think we make it to Calgary, but do you think we make it to odds or I think I said what a big No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't wanna go to the Toronto one and odds.
Maybe not odds Yes, the Toronto one will be so are you in for Toronto? Shaney? Yeah, no, I want to go Yeah, come to Toronto. Yeah, come to Toronto.
Cool. I feel like I'm I thought it was a foregone conclusion that I'd be there now You're acting like I'm just getting invited now. No, I'm happy you're coming. I don't know.
You're busy. You're so busy You think I miss you pulling off some, you know, I don't even know what you have up your sleeve I just know I couldn't miss it for the world guys I put this in our group the other day I think the one thing I will be thinking about on stage as I'm trying to entertain people is Mike and Shane going That's not funny. That's not funny. He doesn't deserve those laughs.
He doesn't deserve those laughs and I put this in our pot chat Because there's this great scene from the Detroiters where a pastor is getting laughs at a funeral And they go that's not actually funny. That's just not strong. Yeah, it's so funny. Well, you know you deserve the laughs I think the idea is that you're getting generous.
You're funny for a singer in a band. It's like, yeah, it's not actually funny though Yeah, I've done so many bits at weddings that got so much more laughter than they deserve to get and it's just the name I would not be grudgy and I I love you getting laughs I think it's funny if you even get the hackiest laugh in the world I'm enjoying it and rooting for you. Well, you know what? I'm gonna I'm more work to do to prepare for this thing on Tuesday And Mike has been helping but I'm gonna loop you a dude.
Do you have time guys? I think you don't have time and whereas I think Mike has time I don't know if that's true or not. I'm just too kind. I'm just too kind to not pick up This is my yes, this is my fatal flop.
It's actually almost the opposite max with you You and Mike are similar brand and the fact that you need like five minutes to come up with an idea Go full bore on the idea and then lock that idea into place where I'm a guy you call me you go over the plan I say can we meet in like a day or two to discuss my ideas and then I go over all my ideas and then they're there Some are good some are bad some might be great and then we go from there. You don't have time for that. You're you're not You're just like, okay, no, that's okay. No, okay.
No, she's not good at this. Okay. I'm not calling Mike Mike what is this little Bruce Springsteen move from 1970s. Yeah, that's great.
You know and that's kind of the process You're not wrong. You're not wrong. The man at times I'm just called Mike on a whim and I usually just call him during dinner time with his family It's usually like a 545 and I'm walking by myself down Queen Street I'm like Mike. I have an idea.
Do you have a minute? You're like max. I'm like in the middle Like dinner with my children. Yeah, yeah, it's a bad time.
It's good though Because I do like Shane's like I I can work quick I enjoy working quick and I don't I'm always down to yeah for 15 minutes and have a laugh doing a quick quick brainstorm But Shane's method is very very effective and served him super well in screw. I'm just like I wouldn't even say I'm a slow burner I'm just so much slower burning than you two guys. Mm-hmm. Well, I have a script that I got a I got a sharpen And I'll send it to both you guys if there's any punch-up jokes if you are I'm excited like what's good about this show is even if you fail You're so successful in every other facet of your life.
It doesn't even matter. It's not even that embarrassing It's just like a good story. So I don't even know if I'm looking forward to you succeeding at this or failing terribly and just us having a great story I'm just so curious because I know what I tell is gonna kill this it might not and there's something exciting and sexy about it Yeah, there is something great about knowing that it's a going on a bad date or something It's like you know if the dates if the dates starts go really bad. You just are thinking yourself This is gonna be a great story.
I can always tell my friends about it I'm leaning in for the story at this point and I'm not even disappointed that this is how I want to do it Who cares like who cares like you and then you almost go. I hope this gets worse Freedom in failing terribly. Okay. I know I told our publisher that we talk about the book I think we've talked about the book a bit on the pod when we announced it any you guys about the book.
Yes I'm gonna ask you some questions on has the yeah, yeah, it's sort of an in-between book It's not a memoir and it's not a how to book. What is the comp? Is there any like comp in your mind of like a books or lessons or and that's not put correctly? No, no, I know like you're saying to try hard.
Yeah, yeah, what would you yeah as a cop like if you're like Oh, this is a perfect book for somebody because that's I'm trying to figure out like who's who's this book for obviously? Our cals fans but could you give it to like your cousin who's like who thinks of himself as sort of creative? But like needs a little nudge or something like who how do you frame the book? This is gonna feel like an accurate to you I think and you're gonna laugh at me, but I'm gonna say scar tissue the Anthony key to Wow, really?
Well because he goes through so many trials and tribulations in that book And so there's a lot of lessons to be learned through reading that when I read it even though I've never had a you know Heroin addiction or problem like that there were lessons in it that kind of transcended whether you're a musician or not. Mm-hmm. Yeah My stories are I enjoyed that book a lot too. He's what a crazy life.
It is sort of The opposite book though in some ways because yes It's okay And the book almost becomes meta in the sense that he relapses in a so many setbacks that the book becomes monotonous almost like the experience of Living with an addict like by the time you're sort of three quarters away through the book. You're like oh shit It's happening again. You know, I found that was experience of bringing it, but it's your question It's like yeah, I read I love biographies I was a little kid that's like Beatles biographies anything like comedians things like that I was kind of my main thing then really into science fiction books stuff like that But Shane I almost wonder I feel like you've always been good at reading like I don't know if they've called himself help books But what do you a path to sort of accomplishing things like you could probably I realized Why have spoken about Gary V in the past by the way I figured this out There was a point where I wrote in direct to the commercial and Gary Vee copied that commercial and I contacted him and we were Going to potentially, you know, I was younger at the time and I thought you could just get into a legal battle quite easily But I'm just a citizen manager and said like hey, this is a legal I'm considering legal action and we got into it for a bit And then he was going to fly me out to meet Gary Vee and I was then I was gonna be on a helicopter and go to him He said he'll we'll give you 15 minutes to hash it out with Gary Vee if you want in person and that was their way Who's gonna pay for it? Who's gonna pay for the helicopter?
They were gonna pay for it apparently I would get flown out land and then I get helicopter to I guess you know His headquarters or something. They just chucked you out of the helicopter That was me telling that story in the pot and I think you now know who Gary Vee is and are like well Shane was obsessed with Gary Vee and he that's his that's that's not the case just explain it Although I do think like a lot of his stuff although repetitive. I think if you listen to him for a day I think there's things to mine from it. Yeah, so just to clarify Shane was not obsessed with Gary Vee He just oh I was yeah in a litigious manner I was obsessed and I was putting together I put together a little documentary about it And I interviewed people like you know Jay Perry and all these people on what?
Ownership over an idea truly looks like You made this documentary you know 37 so I was just the kid 32 Well I talked to Gary Vee's manager and they kind of nipped it in the bottom like you know This wouldn't be good for you if this sort of thing went out But I let them know hey I'm in the works here and I had great conversation and when you are Interviewing someone under the guise of this is for not documentary it really gives you license have awesome in-depth conversations that you can have otherwise So it was still worth it for me even though it never got published well That's a hell of a fucking side. Yes, sorry The original question is what my original point was I think try hard is this interesting amalgamation almost so unique that I haven't really come across it Before word is this mix of biography like a musician's biography Which is interesting you want to go on that journey but then also this sort of inspirational how to and that's sort of the uniqueness I think of the book it's almost like you took my favorite genre and one of Shane's prefer genres and you find the max into your very own thing You said it's an accurate you know description of the book. Yeah. Yeah, I mean yeah I think that is a description you're now come to think of it You know over at the nuts place he has like two books and one is like a shoe dog the Nike guys The other is the Bob Iger one, you know who the president CEO of Disney yeah, and actually kind of like I didn't reach you dog I know people of that book but the Bob Iger one's kind of interesting because he you know ascended from you know Very sort of middle-class family and somewhere these coast and then he and then he was sort of like the lighting guy on a TV Set or like on a new set and then he kind of just like made his way up like right from the ground floor And then eventually he became like the president and CEO of Disney would so but but it's it's there are lessons there About like how to treat people or how to you know imagine what your life could look like or what you learned I think maybe there's some similarities there, but again, I've only read a bit of that book So maybe that's a training the trading the paperclip in I think Shane's use that analogy before It's not sorry.
Yeah, it's a TED talk that you know I took a lot of nuggets from about someone starting with a paperclip and then you keep trading for something just a sliver better than a paperclip Until you end up with like a home or a car. Mm-hmm. That's not the Bob Iger book. Is it?
No, I don't know I was just saying well You got me thinking about some these sort of people that have succeeded starting at the bottom You know they have connections they just sort of you know and then what was their path? It's just always fascinating Justin Sockman or good friend was vice president over at Bell He wrote a piece recently for some publication I don't know but he was talking about his journey Which I know about but it's interesting to see him and write it out and he's talking about how he started as a tour guide at the old like city TV building and sort of then went into the interactive part and just sort of his journey But I'm always like I'm like whenever you see somebody becomes very successful and you look at that first spot the paperclip spot I'm like oh you're giving hope to like every tour guide that is driving out now or like Bob Iger who's you know the Lighting assistant it's like you know, it's always fascinating because it's like it really is a there's so many good lessons to learn along the way But it also is very unique sort of path to be a gap Do you think you're giving people too much hope with this max because I know you you know you do that faux humility thing You're like I have no talent at all. I don't know how I do this I just tried really hard and you know, I've worked with you in music capacity I'm like I need a song like this this is 10 minutes later You have the most perfect song in the world just that you just comes out of your mind So how talentless are you really because it seems like you're very talented It does feel like a little bit of a bait and switch like guys just try hard, but you are super talented So I don't know how talentless you are you know I don't know if this came through the book, but this is one of the intentions of the book I think and I really realize this afterward, but The book is more about having a pleasurable day like I'm such a wimp like if you know Like I have such a low pain tolerance for just about everything in my life except for the things that I like to do So then the question really becomes like how do you how do you make a life that is pleasurable that that that is like fun and interesting And there's a lot of things about being a creative that isn't inherently pleasurable, right? It's not there's nothing fun about doing social media There's nothing fun inherently fun about doing social media and then the question like okay How do you make social media like not a chore?
How do you make it something that you can interact with in a genuine way that is exciting to you? So I hope that's what people take from the book. It's like it's not really as much about like how do you become successful? It's about like how do you find your place on a creative team where you enjoy it?
Yeah, I mean that is a the true definition of success because you know sometimes You associate success with monetary value and then sometimes like are you happy in your life or are you not? That's kind of a different version of success Maybe the most important version of it totally you know sometimes I think about the people that we work with and if you're if you were to say like Who's the most passionate person you you work with who is so excited about their job and what they get to learn and what they get to participate in And how they get to contribute to a group it might be our sound engineer Chris Koplinsky who we tour with the excitement He has for a good sounding mix and the disappointment then when something isn't quite sitting right in him wanting to fix it He's unlike anything else and like you know No one's heard the name Chris Kplinsky But he's a very respected person in our field and he seems to take so much joy and have so much purpose for his job And I think of like all the people that I know and I know lots of people who are like very you know Famous and wealthy they don't seem as happy as Chris Koplinsky that guy knows what he's here to do And you know so I think there's I think like finding your spot is is one of the lessons Cuz even if you don't see yourself in me and because obviously I'm a personality type I'm particularly eager and I'm bold in some ways You know if you don't you feel like I'm max is like a bit much and I can ever see myself being max You might see yourself in somebody who I work with I'm like oh but I could be a manager ash or I could be Mike or I could be You know anybody in my orbit and that's that's a great thing because I obviously need all those people around me Would you find more or get more joy out of your book somehow becoming a tick-tock trend or if it was mandatory reading in a high school curriculum? Good question shame about the heat today. I love he's asked us to do homework I know I know I've literally been on my deathbed for three days, so I I didn't I was just gonna wing this boys But I am so impressed with you.
Oh shit great. Yeah, who question? I mean I think a tick-tock trend would suggest that it the book is so exciting that people are are reading it on their own accord Like I do like the idea of it being in schools Big part of the curriculum that is cool, but that feels more like mandatory reading which would be less fun I want the kids to buy the book bring it into school and tell their teacher about it. Yeah Wow I was not expecting that because the mandatory in the curriculum is kind of like you're a legend It's almost like you're a part of Canadian history where the tick-tock thing immediate dopamine rush, but it's temporary That's a good point because you know everyone has to read catch on the ride.
Yeah, whatever great nine Maybe I'm loving it right then it's the the bull carry like a you know, it's not the book I had to do John Lennon I didn't want to say that but yeah, he did yeah, that's what Mark David Shout was carrying when he murdered John I was really identified with Holden Colfield and his honestly New York and loneliness and the phoniness of I also love catching the ride when I was like it spoke to Mm-hmm, and if I found way I wonder what I would have I wonder what reading try hard what I would have thought in I think you would have been thinking a lot like holding what's his name? Hold it holding coffee. Yeah, hold it coffee I would think of me you like this fucking guy. I think there'd be a bit of that.
No, I think there's takeaways, but who knows I was a single guy Chanky gone. Okay, I'm 22 year old Max were to read this book would he be confused pumped or humbled who? Great question. I think I'd be pumped because I think it would give me license to To carry on in a way that feels real to me because in the early stages of the band even though I was like bold and optimistic I still lived with the fear of people on the still post message board.
Do you remember Mike? Do you remember still post? We talked about this it was yeah, yeah, and you talk like this in your book don't you are allude to this in somewhere? Yeah, I talked about yeah, what's that's how I know it because what's crazies?
I was around and I don't remember that thing But I didn't I didn't go on so I didn't really know what it was but you just This goes to show when people are stuck in their own little niche worlds and and their social circle What a powerful and potent drug that is because I was so obsessed with what people thought and like and you were in a band at the same Time in the same city and you never playing in the same clubs and you never even heard of this board but for me every time I did anything I thought oh people still post gonna think I'm cool or lame or cool or lame and I really became paralyzed sometimes And I stopped being myself because I was but to put myself out there I go maybe not because like that's lame and that's not what so people would think it's cool and to this day Whenever I'm working on anything and I begin to think what like a snarky freelance journalist might say about me and roll their eyes I'm gonna maybe that is lame So I think the book with if I twenty-year-old answer question the twenty-year-old max read the book I'd be like oh don't just keep doing the thing that feels real and true to yourself and don't worry about what the I really people think Okay, next question you're at the top of the pops in music obviously you're you know at this point You're like a veteran you're you know been doing this for over a decade and very successful for over a decade When you were writing the book did you feel like a beginner or was it more like I got this type of I? Definitely felt like a beginner and definitely didn't feel like I knew what I was doing which made it very exciting Which is why the show on Tuesday at my old high school Harbor Collegiate to launch the book is exciting to me because it feels like a bit of a tight rock you know It's like a house is gonna go so I like not being certain that that really gets me energized But it did it was you know I've heard this question where it's like if you're trying to write something just imagine somebody on the other side of your laptop And you're telling that person a story and I just imagine that person on the other side of your laptop is like your smart friend You don't have to talk down to who like gets you and that's such a good simple lesson for anybody who wants to write a book Like just just imagine telling your most charming story to somebody on the other side of the table And someone who knows you and who is a good laugher and start there so the writing part was sort of natural to me in some ways I mean the editing part took a lot of work and editing is a whole other thing which I came to like but Yeah, no, I was definitely definitely felt like an amateur But definitely felt right as well Okay, was there anything in the book that was too embarrassing and you had to edit it out or that was so embarrassing That you didn't even think to include it that you can share with us right now Love it the cutting room floor. Oh my god Yeah, I mean, I think I deliberately stayed out of really embarrassing territory though. That is Gonna be a bit in the show Where I'm gonna talk about some of my failures because it's so easy to have a book that you know outlines all your successes But like but I need to make it very clear for like every one thing we pulled off There's been like 20 that haven't worked and in that 20 There's like three that are kind of cringy and bad and actually I was gonna text you Shane I've been texting my friends going guys Can you recall ideas that I've had that I've attempted that have ended badly?
Can you remember any you're smiling none that I would share on this podcast Shae Shae No, I'm smiling just because this is recent and I'm not even saying this is a bad idea and I won't say what it's about But there is a you know kind of a play that you called me one time and had the works and it was a very provocative play I'm talking these so you even forgot about it My answer musical but I also didn't want to know maybe you're still gonna go forward with that and you might pull it off And that's what's great and I don't even know where you out with that I Haven't gotten any further than the title, which is the provocative part. Can you say that or is that even too? I don't think I can say it my mom called me the other day and she said Max you have to stop talking about that play idea I'm stuck with it all together Okay, that's a good one any other ones. I made a list of like really painful ideas anything else kind of mind Mike I'm trying to tell it obvious to me that I can think of I don't know I think other thing too is you sort of like you said when you're superpowers you just have a short memory You like moving so even when things like maybe don't like heads or people have a lukewarm sort of reaction You just you're on to the next you know what I mean It's like a volume game of things you're passionate about I asked Book Club Maddie if he had any ideas because Matt has like a crazy good memory and what did he say?
score I asked him he goes. I mean your determination to show my scripts to literally the most important people in Hollywood is a Reoccurring one. How do we get with Scorsese? Who do we know who knows him is a text that receives a big time?
That is central max. Yes, that is how you are to you. Yeah I'll save the ones that have written down for the show as a surprise But yeah, anything comes to mind over like an ostentatious idea that I've had that did not work out you can let me know There's time for it still to make a show on Tuesday night, which we will get for the listeners grab your tickets You get a book with the ticket. Yeah, yeah Anyway, thank you for indulging me with this Q&A Okay, keep going Shane if you got more I feel bad.
Do you think you're known for being a nice guy in Canada? Like to me, I think that's something you're known for but I'm not true of that secret I think you know what let the Globe and Mail tell you because the Globe and Mail just put out a piece about me four Hours ago. We did an interview. Yeah, a walk with our cows front man max garment who wants you to find your creative inspiration and in it Josh Interviewed me it's a really nice article.
It's actually You know what you know when you there's all sorts of terrible journalism out there And sometimes you'll kind of hope like I'd love to have a profile written by like a really smart writer who totally gets it Yeah, this is what it is. It's a really it's a great piece and I feel very lucky that Josh want to write about it But what did he say he said something nice about What did he said something how I'm how I'm normal? Oh, this would sound like a stretch if Kerman wasn't Kerman possibly the most earnest career musician on a major label in Canada Yeah, that was a nice thing. Is there any like just complimentary descriptive words like his eloquently disheveled hair and his chiseled feature like did they do that at all?
Oh, yeah, no his rippling six back Both metaphor clean literally it is hard to get max scurmin to stay still there Are those front man's brain and mouth are constantly moving ideas are up constantly for songs for the ways to market those songs for concert enhancing Showmanship and lately for passages in his debut book. That's where the walks come in moving is part of his process He sometimes takes walks alone sometimes with his manager Ashley Poterman They're usually around his home in Toronto's West End and they have helped shape much of tri-art grade work in progress Out April 22nd be a Viking to hear the 38 year old describe the point of his walks is to hear his brain erupt again with inspiration Why you hit her your head against the wall when you could just gone for a walk You told me in the kitchen on a warm April day after moseing around the neighborhood for park for 45 minutes Also big believer in showers. There's a lot of good thinking happens there And I'm a believer in consuming as much art and music as possible listening to artists with a sense of humor is really helpful because it Lanes you blah blah blah. It's nice nice nice.
I sort of open a piece Okay, do you feel like in the book you ever had to like put your niceness to the side in honor of honesty? Mmm, you know, okay, tell me if you think Mike you feel like you've written You've read more like music bios But I feel like and Shane you don't have any because you've written a lot of a read a lot of music bios or entertainment bios Is I feel like there's a lot of complaining in them about times they got fucked over I think there's so many times that like and I always find that to be a little funny because it's like you're the biggest star on planet Earth and All you're doing is complaining about how you got fucked over and it doesn't matter to me that your manager stole a bunch of money in the early days It's like your Paul Simon or whoever is a matter of Paul Simon's actually a good example I love Paul Simon by the way, so I didn't I didn't interest me at all So there are stories about like, you know working with other managers or like Dan He's being the band and those relationships were fraud at certain points But like it's so much more interesting to me to go What could I've done different because I like how could I have avoided that discomfort? What did I learn from that and how can I be doing it different the next time it comes up? Yeah, you don't like being the victim, man.
That's something you never like to play that. Yeah, and also it's like, you know, I'm so lucky So yeah, I don't want to yeah good question that but that's the way I see but you know it's a talk about my house Certainly totally but what I think is good and I think I think the reason that that stuff gets put in those books is because people like drama But what's good and I was saying this to you? I don't know if it's the first time I've gone through it But like I still think your book has this it's a really good sort of like you're you're honest And there's tension in parts in that where you know where then you sort of looking where to go What could I've how could I manage this differently if you encounter this situation? So I did it but I think that there is like a revelatory honesty in the telling of those stories Which I think so don't just underserve your book like I think that that is like an important thing Like people need to see like the sort of bumps along the way and I think that like the way that you guys and you know You and our tells overcame some of those in certain parts of the book is is one of the strengths of the book.
Yeah, you know I think I think I think I think I sort of a lot of sort of optimistic people in a way and of course No matter where you are in your career you say obviously could I've done this better? What could you know? How could we have you know got more of that or could I be a little more famous or rich or whatever? It's so easy to just be in that mindset, but I think you can frame things however you want to frame things like I could have been resentful that I had to edit the book a thousand fucking times or I could go Oh isn't this a unique opportunity that I get to edit a book a bunch of times It's this one day gonna come up and like like I think you're really good at framing things like exactly correctly Like you the way you think about you the way you talk about your life and the good fortune You've had in your life is really healthy and I really admire it because it's completely accurate It's completely true, but another person your shoes might be resentful.
It's so easy just to be resentful for a second sake But you know it's like Mike you go. I'm just a kid from fucking Hamilton didn't come from much and I've been to Africa I've been to Europe. I've worked a job in media for the last 20 years I've been in a band I've toured at toward across the country I got you know it's like that's amazing That is so amazing and I'm sure there's other people with your exact same story that might go Well, I gotta got fucked here because there's there happen times when you've been fucked over or it hasn't or you haven't been put in the best Situation that you have every reason to be annoyed by it, but you just choose to frame in a particular way Which I think it's just I think I think that's sort of you know what the book is trying to get at it's like just you know How do you choose to frame what you've been through? Yeah?
I think so, you know that's really nice to say I think she's the exact same way I think like I think the reason we all get along is because we're not really grudge holders You know what I mean? I just feel like I don't know I feel like pretty young and you know I was like I get angry at holy bread I get really mad but then you kind of realize like you only hurt yourself like if you just like if I'm carrying it I'm carrying something with me that is a tax on me and not worth it So I'm trying to find any way that I can to shed it But that just takes you know that's why it's nice to have good friends You know me and Shane have literally sat back to back in an office for years and you walk in and there's you in half our therapy session I mean him literally just like breaking down what you know the obstacles that might be ahead or how do we accomplish whatever? And it's like I don't know like I think that like everybody gets screwed over and you can like you said That's for the book. It's like you just got to kind of press forward but yeah I don't know I don't know who's who originally sort of said that thing or life is sort of what you make it you determine your circumstances Because it's basically how how you perceive it.
Yeah, it's like 10% what happens to you 90% how you perceive it or whatever I was trying to get it But yeah, I think you the difference between you and me Mike would be you're more like if we went out for a beer You got this on shining with time millionaires Then you know we get into all this nostalgic stuff on you know how lucky we've been in our life Whereas for me I found what has helped me in a weird way and we kind of gotten this conversation a little bit in our chat group has been Negative situations and ruminating on them a little bit and putting like a chip on my shoulder and using that as a challenge Since I am kind of a competitive guy I like to think of things that I ways I have been slighted how I can overcome that and you know prove someone wrong with massive success Kind of like Frank Sinatra's quote is like the best revenge is massive success I think about that all the time and I find that has helped me and I found in our working relationship with platonic friends With me you and pops I find we have like the three bears of like positivity where pops is the most positive You're kind of in that neutral leaning a little bit more positive and I'm a little bit more negative But I find that filtration system has really helped us out in produce better material because you know You don't want to go extreme on either end you're more regulated than me Mike, but I do find that the pessimistic side there is an advantage to it some ways absolutely absolutely and I do think that it's like you can't sort of be You know blue skies ahead if you all the time if you do want to maintain your ambition and succeed and to win You know like we got nominated for a CSA which meant a lot if we hadn't been nominated for the award I would have found a way to be zen about it for 24 hours. I would have been like what the fuck you know Yeah, I'm a human being well I also I would have been like yeah fuck that we're just gonna come back better than ever like you know I use that I put it on my back and I'm like well fuck them then wait wait till they see what we're gonna do next Yes, yes, okay. I have a question. It's sort of related Whose life would you rather have and I'm not talking about a ten-year window I'm talking about like age from being born to age 63 That's how old these people are there.
I'm gonna tell you about Michael Jordan or Charles Barkley Okay, and I get there like calm demeanor and like cool under pressure is or I'm No, no This goes about how you choose to be in the world because on one hand you could be Michael Jordan who is the most beloved You know number one basketball player of all time. He's made billions of dollars from a shoe deal He is like change the course of culture, right? But in a post-playing existence, he's been kind of sort of miserable, you know, it would seem you know He hasn't had a ton of success. He holds these grudges, you know, or would you rather be Charles Barkley?
Who's one of the top 50 basketball players of all time never won a championship? Never won and he gets like for that he never won a championship But the last 25 years of his life post-career. He's had a great time He's had it, you know, like he seems to have to say some daily purpose and a great disposition like and sometimes I go I think I'd rather be Charles Barkley. Well, the question we can't really help who we are like, mm-hmm I think I am naturally more Charles Barkley.
Yes. I'm gonna find the fun in shit I want to have a good time a lot people have a good time where Shane has a bit more I took that personally. He's got more of a MJ thing. I've got more the Barkley thing And I don't I don't know if I'd want to be MJ necessarily just because I do think that to be that Extreme and competitive obviously he's the best to ever do it.
Maybe arguably LeBron. We can argue that You got it. You got it takes like everything But I don't think you can I don't know if there's like a lot to hold on to you know like is he happy when he goes to sleep at night? I don't know it's gonna be a good point though Mike.
I think it is your personality type because Shane I think you might say MJ you just take some satisfaction being the best all 100% I there was an question and also I like like why is Charles Barkley on the air so much? Why is he working so hard? Why is he putting himself out there? If I'm you know him, I just chill and I'm never seen again I think he loves it and he gets to say relevant and he always talks about the crew He knows if you ever leaves that show like they employ like 150 people but think of how relevant Michael Jordan still is He's in the shadows.
He's mentioned in every single fucking basketball conversation There is he is one his brand is relevant. He doesn't he could be dead right now Jordan could be dead And we wouldn't even know it and he's still the most relevant guy in the room. It's a legend. He's truly a legend Yeah, but also it's like some people just like to juice It's like whenever see a like an ex player turn broadcaster Sometimes like I sure you get paid and everyone likes get paid But it's more like they need something to do and they want somebody to do that's really fun And that where they still get to be treated like a big shot and like never underestimate men Especially just like loving the juice.
Do you think you're saying George walks into a steakhouse? And it's like didn't see on TNT recently. Who are you again? Like he's got the juice.
He's I think he's got more juice than Barkley and that's I love if you do something that's so good It lasts forever and the rest of your life when you go into a steakhouse people just want to give you the best booth Jordan tomorrow said you know what I actually want to be one of the hosts on this the Amazon show or NBC I want to be a studio guy. He's probably $9 million deal to him. Wouldn't it be hilarious if he was terrible? He's just so nervous.
He's like oh he's stuttering and he was a terrible GM in Washington I drive on the brown. He was a terrible owner in Charlotte acting didn't do shit Like he's pretty much only awesome at playing basketball and you could argue selling sneakers and you know his Nike deals and all that But I guess I mean more than terrible just a very uncool nervous and like that would be a funny thing to see Yeah, he freezes on camera like Mike Mike. Yeah, that was a nice jump shot Jump shot. Yeah, it's fascinating.
Who you said you're having Barkley maxing? I think so I think I'd rather be barked. I think I don't know. I just I was like show me who seems like they're having more fun But it's still wildly successful and I usually would point at that person.
Yeah, all right guys Well, I know you know I jacked this episode, but that was a point. No, this is good. Yeah, so thank you guys We let's wrap it up and get this thing out the door. Okay.
Well before we wrap I did want to know Shane why are you recording your bathroom? Is it the sound quality when you got to go? You got to go? No No There's a litany of children in my house right now And we made a joke in the chat group that recording on Good Friday was going to have a bunch of problems with kids yelling and they are going nuts down There and I haven't been able to really hear them.
I got the two door security closed And my internet's like you know my internet has been terrible in this new house. So it seems to be working on camera bathroom So that's right. Yeah, yeah, you're perfect. You start taking zoom so we're doing work calls and shit.
I probably love that Yeah, all right. Well, that's it That's all that's he tell the people where they can they can see you where they can buy the book is all very exciting times Yeah, it comes out April 22nd and you can see me in Toronto on Tuesday night April 22nd Calgary on Thursday when I'm on Friday Hamilton on the Sunday There'll be some other book events coming up if you have 30 bucks in your bank account and look for something to read by the book this week So if you're listening to this podcast don't put it off by it now. It helps you won't be disappointed It's a great book and now congratulations. Hopefully every loves it and I know they will if they pick it up and give it a read Is it try hard to cover or try is it's kind of hardcover and soft too like just hardcover for now and then stuff cover paper back later try hard Oh, we call tries off creative work and project.
Yes. Yeah, don't use that one at your at your event on Tuesday Yeah, it should be one liners, but the paper book back comes out. It's gonna go try soft That would make me mad at that one your initial instincts were right if you got a laugh on that I would be very mad All right, thanks so much for the Nash. Thanks so much to manager Ash.
Thank you to all the listeners Maybe we'll see you Tuesday night in Toronto at Max's high school shady and I will be there. That's it. That's all the top So guys it's great. Hey