How to Balance Brand vs Performance Marketing: Marketing Effectiveness and the ROI Data Behind the Ratio

Episode 170 with guest James Hurman, Founder of Previously Unavailable and co-founder of Tracksuit, AF Drinks and Caffeine  This week's technical marketing skill is another on marketing effectiveness as we believe it's a core capability gap we need to close as a profession, so that we can truly be the growth engine of the business and lead the long-term commercial agenda.   Abby is joined by James Hurman to discuss why marketing leaders need to be investing in brand AND performance and avoiding the 'performance trap'. Plus the ROI data behind 60/40 split (Binet and Field's Long and Short of it) now being approximately 50/50 for maximum gains, building a measurement framework that actually connects to commercial outcomes, and the mindset shift senior marketers need to set themselves up for a successful tenure.  Joining Abby is James Hurman, a New Zealand-based founder, entrepreneur, investor, author and leading voice on marketing and advertising effectiveness. He is Founder and Chair of Previously Unavailable and co-founder of Tracksuit, the brand tracking platform fast becoming a go-to among UK marketers, alongside AF Drinks and Caffeine. James is the author of The Case for Creativity and Future Demand, and consults to major organisations globally on marketing and advertising effectiveness.    Key takeaways  Beware the performance trap… We understand the pressure to show quick wins but short-term, visible results can mask an eroding baseline and a shrinking pool of future customers.  The ROI evidence for a 50/50 split keeps stacking up… James discusses four separate data sets across three decades that indicate overall ROI is highest when spend is balanced between brand and performance.  Build a measurement stack… James recommends tracking three levels: campaign metrics (is anyone noticing our advertising), interim metrics (is our brand growing in awareness, consideration and preference) and commercial metrics (sales, profit, market share). Most businesses have the top and bottom covered but are missing the brand dashboard in the middle.  The power of knowledge… The confidence to make the case for the right investment and to hold your own with stakeholders comes from building your knowledge on effectiveness.  Set your foundations early if you want to leave a legacy… Marketing leaders who do the right things for long-term brand building, even if it means a slower start, tend to look far better by the time they leave a role than those who chase quick wins.     00:00 — Welcome to the Whole Marketer Podcast  02:38 — Today's Big Juicy Question: What Is Marketing Effectiveness?  04:02 — Why Marketers Know What to Do but Don't Always Do It  07:33 — The Skills Gap Behind Connecting KPIs, Allocation and Investment  09:09 — Bringing Distributed Marketing Science Together  11:49 — Why It's Fair for Stakeholders to Question Marketing Spend  13:39 — Introducing the Performance Trap  14:18 — What's Fuelling the Shift Towards Performance Marketing  16:41 — The Hidden Cost of Leaning Too Hard Into Performance  18:56 — Why CFOs Should Judge Marketing on Annualised ROI  19:34 — Do You Want to Leave Your Job Looking Good or Not?  22:56 — How the Best CMOs Set Their Foundations in the First 90 Days  26:59 — Why Knowledge Builds Real Confidence  28:36 — Knowledge, Humility and the Power of Asking Questions  32:14 — Explaining Current Demand and Future Demand  34:31 — Why Advertising Doesn't Directly Cause Sales  36:50 — A Framework Marketers and Non-Marketers Can Both Understand  39:51 — The Evidence Behind the 60/40 Rule  42:38 — Four Data Points From 1992 to Today  44:20 — Building a Measurement Framework That Reaches the Boardroom  45:11 — The Three-Level Metric Stack: Campaign, Interim and Commercial  47:11 — Why You Need a Brand Dashboard Alongside Your Performance Dashboard  49:58 — James's Advice for Marketers of Tomorrow    Resources  Future Demand by James Hurman  The Case for Creativity by James Hurman  Tracksuit  Previously Unavailable  The Whole Marketer 'Define your ideal role' resource – free download  https://thewholemarketer.com/resources/    Host: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abigailcdixon/  Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameshurman/    About The Whole Marketer  The Whole Marketer podcast is here to support and empower the people behind brands and businesses with the latest technical tools, soft and leadership skills and personal understanding for a fulfilling marketing career and life as a whole.  Did you know The Whole Marketer is more than a podcast and book? We're your trusted partners for marketing capability and transformation, providing consultancy, training & workshops, speaking, coaching, mentoring and trusted advisory service.  Visit www.thewholemarketer.com to see how we support leaders to build successful and fulfilled marketing teams with the holistic skills to lead the long-term commercial agenda and deliver the true potential of marketing.  Contact [email protected] to get in touch with Abby and the team