Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This weekly conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practices spiritual rhythms, and changes the world together. Have you ever wondered what to say or not to say to someone who's grieving? As followers of Jesus, how do we truly come alongside someone in their deepest pain?
Brent Bosearth is a life group leader at Mariners Church and has been a hospice chaplain for nearly a decade. Today, Scott and Brent talk about common misconceptions about grief and loss. Brent gives advice on how to come alongside someone dealing with grief and specifically how to give advice as a follower of Jesus. Let's tune into today's episode.
I love getting together with you. We get together once a month. Yes, once a month. Yes, once a month.
At the Mariners Cafe. Time goes too quick when we talk. It does. I love partnering with you.
I really mean that. You're doing such an incredible work with our flourish senior adults ministry right here at Mariners and so I'm just grateful for you. Thank you. All that you do for the kingdom of God and for this church.
Thank you so much. But today Brent, we are here to equip and encourage our life group members and the leaders. Who need God's flock. And we love to have you chat with us about coming alongside our group members who may be going through grief and loss and pain.
And as a group leader, as a life group leader myself, I think I shared with you that we have members going through hardships and trouble and struggles. And as a group leader, I wanted to be equipped. I wanted to be trained up on how to shepherd people through that. And so in one of our monthly breakfast that we're having, just as we're having this conversation, you had brought up some of these things of how to navigate through that.
And I was like, Brett, I got to have you share with our life group leaders and that can go. Okay, perfect. So just to start out, Brian, if you could just share a bit about your background and how you clean the focus of helping people. Okay.
Well, I've been in the ministry since 1998. I've been, my wife and I have been all over this country. So I've passed her churches in Florida, Washington, D.C. area.
We moved here to Orange County in 2016. I then got involved with hospice. And then I've been currently with hospice ever since 2016. Mariners has been our home church since 2016.
And because of hospice, I do a ton of memorials. And then Mariners heard that I do a ton of memorials. So I now do a lot of memorials here for Mariners church in the chapel. And that's when, and the more you do them, the more you realize, oh boy, this is something that there, and when families or people deal with grief, there's so many misconceptions about grief.
What are some of those misconceptions? Well, number one, they would think grief hits everyone the same way. And that's not even factual. Or they will say, because I have strong faith, the grief won't hit me very hard.
That's not true either. And then in third misconception is that once the memorial's over, I won't be dealing with grief anymore. And that's not true either. So, but then another misconception is, and I always meet with the families before the service.
And what I try to do is, and it has, number one, I wanted to get a snapshot of that person. So I got to feel their heartbeat. So if I tell a story about them, I want to, my goal is if someone came from the street and never met this person, sat in the back row, when they left that service, they would say, oh my gosh, I know so much about this person, what made them laugh, what motivated them. And then, and always say that, you know, you can't tell a story of a person unless you include laughter.
So you have to have people laugh. And that's part of the grieving process. But so I'll ask a family. First question is, was the death expected or unexpected?
And they'll say unexpected. And then they'll say, well, see, an unexpected death is harder to deal with than one that was expected. That's not true. So grief, even though the unexpected death hits them such in a hard way that they just weren't prepared for it, the grief is the same, whether it's a long prolonged death, like Alzheimer's or dementia, or an unexpected death that they died in a car accident or if something tragic happens.
And so when that happens is you then you don't try to sugarcoat it. You don't try to make light of it. You tell people, let's hit it head on. So when you hit the grief head on and you just go there and what you start saying is, because so many times people will ask, why, why God, why now?
And I've done a ton of services for individuals under the age of 35. So when they're under 35 and people say, why would God allow them? They had such a future. Why would this happen?
And I will tell the family, if you ask the question, why that question will never get answered on this side of heaven. And then another aspect of grief is they'll start playing the guilt game. I wish I could have done this. I should have done this.
Oh, so it's the would have could have should have game. And I would have done this if I would have known that we were time was so short. And then again, I'll tell the families if you play that would have could have should have game, that game will never end. And then you're just moving yourself down and it just makes it so much harder with the grief.
So what you do is you tell people, and this what you and I talked about a month ago, if I took a person to the Krona Del Mar beach, we'd stand in front of the ocean, I would ask that person that is grieving, do the waves ever stop coming into the shore? No. Are they all big waves? No.
Are they all small waves? No. So you do a big way will hit that's grief. So just when a person thinks they're doing well, a big wave hits them.
So then I'll tell the family, there's a term called embrace the grief. When that big wave hits you, you go, Oh, I didn't see that will come in. Also, you let if tears can come with the tears come. But then after you embrace that grief, you then turn it into gratitude because then you say God, thank you.
I'm a better person because of this person in my life. And even though they're gone, my love never stops. So you always tap into that love and then you try to say, what did they instill in me that made me a better person? And then you tap into that and say, no, if they were here, they would whisper in my ear something like, you got this.
Don't let don't let that disappointment dictate who you are. You keep going because God's with you. And also they say, Oh my gosh, that's what my mom or dad or my grandma, grandpa or whoever may be my friend. That's what they would say to me.
So you tap into that and you turn grief. And grief is the hardest grief. A person will just look at themselves and say how sad they are, how broken they are, how empty their life feels. Well, that is what we consider bad grief because you're only focusing on you.
Good grief focuses on this person made a lasting impact. They made a difference. They poured into me and now I'm going to try to continue that legacy that they poured into me. I'm continuing that further down the road because of them.
So that's when you go, Oh, and then you just close your eyes and you try to say, what are they doing in heaven? So then when you focus, what are they doing in heaven? Well, the Bible says in heaven, there's no sorrow, no tears on disappointment. This earth is filled with sorrow, tears and disappointment.
So sometimes the enemy will try to keep us in such a low area. And that's when depression kicks in. You're depressed. I don't even want to get out of bed because the grief is so hard.
You try to tell the person, no focus on the good. Don't focus on the bad or how they ended. Focus on the laughter that they instilled in you. Focus on all the life they poured into you.
And then you'd say to yourself, This is not goodbye. This is see you later. And when you know that you will see a person later, then when we meet them in heaven, that loved one will probably say something and laughing. Hey, Scott, what took you so long?
You know, yeah, I mean, this is so helpful, Brent. I think every person that's going through grief or pain, hearing what you say right now could really help them to just process all the emotional hurts and wounds and pain. You know, as a life group leader, we sometimes feel unqualified. Yeah, your expertise is so helpful.
But I always kind of wonder, like when people are going through grief, as someone that's hearing this, like, should we, what do we do? Like, sometimes we feel like, should we even mention it? Oh, yes. It's an incentive to ignore it.
No. Okay. So one thing you do now, it is true a person can use too many words or they will take Bible scripture and take it out of context. So they'll use this verse.
And when you tell a grieving person this verse, it will drive them absolutely nuts. All good things happen for the good for those that love the Lord. And they will say, how in the heck is this good? So I tell people, no, they had the best intentions, but you got to just ignore that.
So sometimes I'll tell a person or a Christian will say, I know exactly what you feel. Well, we shouldn't say that either because even though we've gone through loss ourselves, Scott, if I say to you, I know exactly what you're feeling, that is not even true. Because you may be hurting, you may be in a just a terrible sorrow. And I've had those experiences myself, but I've never, I don't know exactly what you're going through.
So for me to say, I know exactly what you're going through, that's disingenuous. And it kind of makes a person mad and see another aspect of grief is anger. So if you want to see a person get angry real quick, you tell them something like that. And they will say, you have no idea what I'm going through.
And then you realize that you're correct. That's right. I don't. So then when that happens, that's where faith kicks in.
It says this, faith says in 2 Corinthians 1 and 4, the same level that God comforted us while we were going through our grief and sorrow, he then will use us to help someone that went through the same thing. That's right. So then, okay, what does that look like? What's the application?
Okay, I've lost both my mom and dad. And but my mom and dad before they passed, they both knew that heaven was their final destination. There was no question. So if I run across a person that just says, I lost my mom.
The thing I say to them is this, I'm so sorry. Why is that important? Because you just say, you tell them I'm sorry and you're basically the translation is, it hurts. It hurts.
And so then you may say something like this and they'll say, that may prompt this question from the grieving party. Have you lost your mom? Yes, when? And they'll say, when I'll say, okay, five years ago.
And then if they just kind of sit there and they don't say anything, I will then I always ask the Lord to give me the right words. So that's one key. You always pray underneath your breath or give me the right words when someone's grieving. But I would say something like this, you know, our moms are our biggest or they were our biggest supporters from the day we were born to when they pass.
So no matter how old you are or how old your mom is, the mothers never quit being our encouragers, being the one that will say, honey, you can do it. Honey, you got this. So my mom would always say that. So I realized when she passed, I had a big grief moment because I thought my biggest encourager is no longer on this planet.
And even though my wife encourages me, it's not the same as your mom. Because your mom's been with you through thick and thin and your mom's the one that brought you to this planet. So that's when you let faith get in. And then the other one is Psalm 34 18, which says, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those crushed in spirit.
So then I would ask this question, are you brokenhearted? Yes. Are you crushed in spirit? Yes, I know.
But the Lord knows it even better than I do. So if the Lord says he saves those that are crushed in spirit, he will then take you and send the right people at the right time, then to heal your broken heart, but saves you when you are crushed in spirit. Yeah. That's so good, Brent.
So what you're saying is like when they are sharing their pain, the first thing is just to sit with their pain with them and say, I'm so sorry and really emphasize. And just sometimes just let them get it all out and don't try to interrupt and don't try to say, oh, I know, I know, I know, I know, just sit there and go. And once they, because see some of the process with grief, when a person can get it out as they're talking about it, sometimes they'll make them cry and sometimes we as humans want to try to hush them down and don't cry. No, no, they should let that cry come out and they should never apologize for the tears.
Sometimes even a man, if a man cries, oh, I'm sorry, I should be breaking down. Never apologize for your tears. Never. And then when you say you let them get it out because see here in grief, if a person doesn't get the grief out, it will build up, build up, build up.
And then either now or down the road, it will just explode like a volcano. I had a gentleman that he did not deal with grief. He told his family he was fine. He didn't want to talk about it.
He shut everybody down and they just said, okay, 10 years went. He never processed grief. He went into the hospital. And it was 10 years to today when he lost his own child at the hospital.
He had to be called back because his niece was going through the same thing. And when he walked into that same floor of the hospital, it was deja vu. And he thought, oh my gosh, this reminds me. And he just broke down and he sat in a room in the hospital, just weeping and just.
And he couldn't tell the family why he was crying so hard. And the family thought he was going nuts. They're like, so when the hospital chaplain came to him, he said, why are you crying so hard? He said, because of your niece, he said, this is has nothing to do with my niece.
This was my daughter who passed away 10 years ago to this week. I never grieved properly and coming back, it hit me like a ton of bricks. So that's what I was saying, that if a person doesn't grieve properly, that grief will catch up with them down the road and they won't even realize it and something will happen and they'll go, oh my gosh. And then they'll put two and two together saying, I never grieved back here.
And sometimes they'll do it because we got to be strong. No, you don't have to be strong. That's another misconception. If you put on a strong face and you say, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine.
You're doing yourself more of a disservice than you are letting the emotions process through you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes in our spiritual communities and our life groups, we have our set agendas.
Yes. And I realize that you're even talking, sometimes you got to put all those away and be like, when someone is hurting, that we're a community with Christ in us and sometimes we just need to pause and create that space for people to grieve and share and pour out the hearts. Maybe that's for an hour. It's like, but praying for each other and supporting each other through that is so important, I think, as a church community.
And that's when you pray the Word. The Word of God says this, God will comfort those who mourn. And that's a promise. And it's a covenant.
So you also say, God, you said you would comfort me. Well, comfort comes in many shapes and sizes, but one way of comforting is just being alongside a person and you can come alongside. We use a term in hospice, a ministry of presence. I can, Scott, I can come over to you, just sit down and I'm near you.
I don't have to touch you. I don't have to say a thing to you, but you will feel my presence and you'll go. And then sometimes the person will, I had this one person say, thank you for what you did. I didn't say a word.
Oh, that's exactly what I needed. And I didn't say a word, but they were thanking me because I was sitting there with them and my presence comforted them. The ministry of presence. Yeah.
The ministry of presence. I think, oh, that come on, that's not real or that's not that significant. Yes, it is. Yeah.
I mean, we talk so much about how in these moments of grief, in the highs and lows, we go through in our lives and we go through all the states of life we're in all the time. But that's what a group is for, right? Yeah, it's community. It's community.
I'll thank community. And see, sometimes people think community is just being around people who you laugh and you have a good time with no community. The real definition of community is you are with someone through thick and thin. That's true community.
Some families will tell me during their time of loss and time of grief, they realized who their true friends were because some of their true friends, they didn't like handling with grief or they didn't like talking about grief and they left them and it crushed the person because they thought, I thought they were truly my friend. Yeah. And obviously it's not anything that we can be present. We can be empathetic and listening.
Yes. But it's pointing people to fighting, strength and cries and the hope of Jesus. And that's what ultimately leads to healing. How do we know though, Brent, when there is someone, something that's beyond our scope, when people really do need professional counseling, additional resources, that's beyond what we can provide in our lives?
Okay. So there's a time we call the journey of grief and the journey of grief can go around 13 months. So we say, if a person gets stuck, okay, how does a person get stuck in grief? If you try to encourage them, if you try to give them the scriptures I mentioned to you and you just say, I'm here, but then they get stuck in anger.
And so every time you talk to them and you say, hello, Julie, how you doing today? Would you quit asking me that? And they just come off and you go, okay, well, maybe that's just today. Well, then you think, okay, two days, I'm going to touch back.
I'm going to reconnect with Julie. Julie, hey, it's Scott, how you doing? I told you, would you stop it? I can't even think I'm so angry.
Oh, there's the red light and you go, oh, oh, Julie. So then that should prompt this follow up question. Julie, answer me and be honest with me. Are you full of anger and you can't get over the anger?
Yes. The other thing is sometimes the guilt. Are you stuck in this and you sometimes you ask, what are you stuck in? And you ask them what emotion?
So some will say, or they're just, they're so sad and they just keep crying and keep crying and because they feel like they've lost hope. So if a person gets stuck in one of these different emotions and you realize and then you ask the follow up question, how many days have you been this way? I'll be this way for two weeks, would you simply be alone? Aha.
Then you go, they're stuck. So then you get a counselor like me or someone who's been with grief and then what you do is you don't push them out of that stage. You gently take their hand and you say, you can't get past this emotion right here, right? That's correct.
And then you say, okay, so then you start giving them tools, but you give them, first of all, you give them to a trained counselor who can then guide them out of that stage and get them, I'd use the word, but unstuck. Yeah. Yeah. And here, Mariners, we're so blessed to have leads to professional counselors, but also just our care and recovery groups that have so many different ones that we offer here on Monday evening.
So that is something that we can refer or encourage our group members who are stuck in the grief. Yeah. Well, Brent, this has been really amazing and helpful. Any other final words of encouragement to our life of leaders?
I would just say grief is not confined to one age group. It's not confined to one gender. Grief will hit the young and old. Grief does not come one size fits all.
Grief will hit a person differently. You may have three siblings and the grief will hit all three siblings totally different. And sometimes the other siblings will point to the other sibling who's grieving differently. You're grieving wrong.
There is no right or wrong way to grief. So don't be judgmental when someone's grieving differently than you do. Don't say and don't say to yourself because they grieve differently that they're grieving wrong. They should have grieved like I grieved.
No, that's just not that's not right or it's not even feasible because we realize grief will hit people differently. And we've got to give them the space to grieve but help them and know that there's someone coming alongside them to help them and their with them in their grief. Yeah. Brent, I love having this conversation with you.
Brent, you have led Vuda groups of 2330 old men, young men. You also lead a weekly like I said earlier, a flourish senior adults ministry right here at Manner's. Can you give us just a brief information about flourish and when and where you meet? Okay.
Flourish is for the age group 60 and wiser. We do not like to use the word OLD because sometimes the world will define a person with their age that now they're old and that there's no hope or plan for them. Once they hit a certain age, well the Bible is not the Bible is says to totally opposite. You shall be fresh and flourishing, still producing great fruit even in old age.
So this group is we meet every Sunday, 10 o'clock room, 208, we have a great group and the main goal is to flourish until the Lord calls them home. Hey man. Thanks, Brad. Thanks God.
And without serving with you, you can partner with you. Let's get you to press on the other. Yes. Okay.
Okay.