Howard Beck

Before we get started, I wanted to tell you about another great ESPN podcast, the C.J. McCollum Show, where every week, Pelicans guard C.J. McCollum dishes on his life in and out of the NBA. His guess this week was me.

They definitely scraped the bottom of the barrel, but hey, you got to do what you got to do. We discussed surprise teams, MVP voting, how to fix the all-star game, load management, among other things. That's the C.J. McCollum Show available wherever you're listening now.

And now the low post. Welcome to the low post podcast. It's Friday morning, March 10th. We are 30 days from the end of the 2022, 2023 regular season.

And seemingly the entire Western Conference landscape is in some sort of wobbly, shambles, crisis, weirdness, other than the most stable franchise in the NBA, the Sacramento Kings, of course. And it's time to say for the first time in a while, the three most anticipated words, not niche basketball podcasting, just basketball podcasting. What up, Beck? What up, Zack?

When did you graduate from niche to just mainstream basketball podcasts? This is an amazing development. Hey, I can make, I can make, I can say whatever I want. It's my show.

I can say whatever I want. You can reclassify your podcast and whatever tier of podcasts out in the world there are. You have that ability. You have that authority.

Well, we were going to record this yesterday. It's Thursday and then the Durant and Luca, MRAs were having, I said, you don't want to sit here and record a podcast and then Kevin Durant out a month or something like that. And Kevin Durant news broke last night. We should start with that as the Phoenix Sun's traded anything and everything for him and have not lost the game since acquiring him.

Durant is going to be out according to Woje sometime between two and three weeks. The team's update said reevaluated in three weeks. That puts you right around April one, which leaves three to four games left in the regular season for this team to figure out what it wants to be and how it wants to play. That's obviously a big deal.

That's like not optimal. You'd like a little more time to see your team to see what what combinations work off the bench. What guy works best is the fifth guy alongside the core four star starters. Yeah, I'll call him stars.

I'll go to the guy and train the star. Very good mood. It's Friday stars. Chris Paul star.

Yeah, he's a star Chris Paul gets to keep stars status for as long as he plays. And there was also a chance that maybe they could give him the chaos in Memphis and just how great this team could be that they could maybe climb up into the two, three side of the bracket, which I think would make the Denver Nuggets smile because I think the sons. I have been calling them at the very least co favorites and likely slight favorites in the West over the nuggets since acquiring Durant. And that's a problematic matchup for you'll catch him pretty much everybody, honestly.

And now I think the sons are probably likely to just hang nice in that fourth spot. They have a four game cushion over everybody behind them and they won't have much time. And you know what Howard? I don't really care.

I just as long as Durant's healthy, I don't care. He is the most easily fitable superstar player in the history of the NBA and from game one against the suddenly competent Charlotte Hornets. It was just a breeze of let's try this action. Let's try that action.

Let's try you posting up over here. Let's try you and Chris Paul running a pick and roll in Devon. You come off a pin down on the other side. Oh my God.

The Andre you're going to slip open. Oh, that's the Durant part of it. If he's healthy is easy. Um, I will say, and I have said since they made this trade, this is the case with every star trade and it doesn't mean they should not have made it does not mean they should not have made it.

But the sons of Durant and Chris Paul and Devin Booker should Durant get injured or Chris Paul get injured are not one of these teams that can say, oh, well, it's just bad luck. You know, who could have seen that coming? This is baked in to the trade. Um, I've gone over the mechanics of the trade ad nauseam and why I think this was still a perfectly fine move for them to make.

But this is part of the deal. Do you have any reactions to this, how they have looked with Durant, what you think this injury does to the play-off raise anything of interest. So when Durant made his debut with them and then proceeded over the next couple of games after that to just look as seamless as possible as if he'd been there his entire career. I love that it validated all of our hour being the basketball punditry.

Um, all of our impressions and assertions that he is this. I think you have said this many times that many people have said this plug and play superstar, right? He's so easy to fit Kevin Durant. And that doesn't mean disservice.

He's not just plug and play. He amplifies other superstars, which is sometimes there's this diminishing returns of pairing superstar, top superstar, top superstar. He amplifies everyone all around him, every player type. And that is a talent.

That is a talent amplifying other people. Yes. No, to be able to still play with a high usage and to still have the ball in your hands a lot and score to high rate and everything else and not have it feel like it's taking away from anybody around you, right? Like that's what you're alluding to.

You plug and play doesn't mean like, oh, he just fits in. No, he does what he does, but he does it in a way that feels seamless and that does not detract from or diminish anybody else that he's playing alongside. And so it was fun to watch when he made his debut with the Suns and see like, man, this is exactly what we all think. And it's fun to see that validated again, also because it just speaks so well of Kevin Durant and who he is and his makeup, his talents, but also his team oriented focus that you can be a dominant superstar in this league who thrives with the ball in your hands and not have it be at the expense of other guys, right?

So he elevated. He amplified as you said. All of that was great. But I still believe in my gut and I've checked my gut against various, you know, players and coaches who know this game at a level beyond us before.

I say, okay, if they've only got 20 games to get him acclimated, that still matters, though, right? Like I understand he's seamless. He's easy. He's a really smart player.

Chris Paul's a really smart player. Devin Booker, like it's not hard to fit them together. But don't you still need some semblance of rhythm and chemistry and a feel for each other and crunch time and lineups and rotations that fit around it and everything else doesn't that all still matter? Because if it doesn't, then what are we talking about all season when we're talking about chemistry with everybody else all the time?

And the general sense from players, X players, yes, yeah, those things matter. Maybe it matters a little less in this case, but it does matter. So the reason I brought that up at the time was I had like three or four potential concerns. I was the tap the breaks guy when everybody said, crown the sons, the champions of the West or favorites in the West.

I was the tap the breaks guy only because I thought, listen, let's see how it goes. They don't have much time. There's very little to no precedent for a player of Durant's caliber mid-season joining another team and then taking them to the finals. And he is joining a team with some other guys who need the ball in their hands a lot.

And they did lose some depth and defense along the way in the trade itself. All those things still have to matter on some level. It doesn't mean that they can't overcome them. I'm just saying, oh, and by the way, you know, Chris Paul and Kevin Durant have massive injury histories, including this season and including every season for the last several years.

Those are the reasons why I think we should at least make them a favor to not be favorite is the way I kept putting it. Well, I said at the time of the trade that I will always think back to what one very smart NBA front office person who was not involved told me in reaction to the Clippers thunder trade for Paul George slash Paul George plus called Whylander. He said it could go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the NBA for the Clippers. And it's a trade they absolutely had to make.

And I just think that's that's people get so enamored with the name that they ignore the potential downside. And and and and they're just they're just real. Now I think Phoenix would justifiably argue and this is why I was fine with the trade. Number one, we don't face the same Brooklyn Nets.

Oh, everything fell apart 2014 15 16 downside because Devin Booker's 26 and DeAndre eight and Nick Pickham all you want is a 24 year old really good player. That's a nice fortification. Yes. And number two, I think they concluded this core was not winning.

This core with John Collins on top of it was not going to win or whoever just pick another good player that you had was not have a very low chance compared to this current team of having of winning a championship. Whether you say, well, why don't you hold all your assets, your McKail Bridge is averaging 26 again for the Nets. We're gonna talk about him in a second. And all your picks into one swap you traded out the door and all that for the next guy in line who might be 28 and not 34.

Okay. Like who's the guy? Like what are you waiting for? You've given yourself and I said at the time you trade all this stuff you'd like to be favorites to win the championship, maybe clear favorites and they're not.

I don't think they're clear favorites to win the championship. I don't even know that they're clear favorites to win the West. But I think it's Kevin Durant and you just have to swallow hard and do it. But the health is the big one that everyone just kind of rushed over like, oh, Kevin Durant's 34.

Who cares? He gets certain sometimes. Chris Paul's 37 who cares to get certain playoffs all the time. Well, look, you don't have an offseason to build your depth around them to get ring chaser one and ring chaser two.

Like if one of them gets hurt at the wrong time, you're not going to win. You're one of a very small window is going to be toast. We are not there yet. I don't have any of the chemistry concerns that you do.

We can talk about why, but I just don't. I don't have them. Well, now that they're down to how many games are they going to have maximum together, assuming that we don't know when Kevin Durant's coming back. Let's say five.

Let's just pause it. Five. Five more or five total edition to the one of their play three. So five more.

All right. So all right. So does eight games. Let's think of this another way because I know that the trade thing, the mid season trade thing throws a whole other curve into this idea of, well, there haven't been that many mid season trades involving a player of Kevin Durant's caliber because how many players of Kevin Durant's caliber of their bit in the history.

They forget that if Kevin Durant had actually been traded to the Phoenix Suns last summer when he first wanted to be and then proceeded to miss 74 of 82. And had not been there all season and suddenly joins them in late season. There's still no precedent for a player of that caliber playing eight games for a contender and leading them somewhere having never played with them before. And I think there's something to the idea that the time together, the teams that have been together will tell you all the time.

Like the Warriors are a terrible example because last night they looked like they just met each other for the first time and had name tags that say hi. My name is Dremon. Hi, my name is Steph and they're so out of sync. But the Warriors in general, we see them do these things and immediately the commentary is look at that.

That's the stuff that's born of having played together for all these years. The reed they have of each other, the feel they have for each other. All this. If the continuity matters elsewhere and we talk about it all the time, how does it not come to play at some point in a critical game five in a tide series this spring for the Suns or a game seven?

Or whatever it may be. If you don't have that same familiarity and muscle memory, doesn't that have some impact? I mean, it's kind of an unknowable thing, right? It may not be the case that Dren's gonna come back, play his five games and there's gonna tear through the West for all we know.

And I also there and go, okay, I'm gonna reevaluate what I ever thought about chemistry and the need for guys to have experience together. But I'm gonna still go in with a little bit of skepticism until that. Well, let's just here's why one of the reasons I don't think it matters. Just going up the standings from 10th in the West.

So apologies to Utah and Oklahoma City who are 11th and 12th. No apologies to this law either. The Pelicans injuries no continuity. The Lakers injuries trade no continuity.

The Mavericks, Luke Adantra, thank God is MRI came back clean, just made a huge trade, decimated their wing defense no continuity. The Timberwolves, Megatrade in the offseason, Carlin, three pounds hurt all season no continuity. Warriors one game over 500 can't win on the road, can't win playing six on four on the road. It's the most puzzling thing I've ever seen.

They can't beat anyone on the road. I would like to see the Warriors play. I don't who is the team they could beat on the road every time? They can't beat the Pistons on the road.

They can't beat the Hornets on the road. It's absolutely insane. Clippers just dropped the Russ Grenade into their team no continuity two games over 500. Suns above them, Grizzly's a mess.

Kings just kicking their feet up being like, Hey, we're the functional team now. Look at us. It's so great. And no one's scared of them.

And no one is scared of them. And I actually think teams maybe shouldn't be scared of them. But I think this whole like people are just penciling in the Kings is like cute first round exit. And I said this earlier this week, I don't want to get into it again.

There is a universe in which we wake up in the Kings are in the conference finals if the seeds break right for them. And you watch them play. I watched their game against the Knicks last night. You watch them play these teams like the way they play their speed, their pace, subonus and fox together, the shooting around them.

You know, you can question their winged up. You can question their overall depth, which seems to be like Prey Malik Monka some threes. And if he does, we have great depth if we don't, they're good and they're a pain to play against. And then at the top, of course, the nuggets who are banking on all sorts of continuity.

That's just I just don't like you look at the last man. It's a mess. It's a mess. If Kevin Durant comes back with five games left, that's awesome.

That's great. That's enough. It's a freaking mess itself. There's one year where it doesn't matter that your best player already played eight games with you.

Maybe this is the year. However, however, can I just let me ask one question that I'm going to point something out. If they could go back in time to the Clippers, not sign Russell Westbrook. I don't want to talk about it.

I never mind. All right. Here's the point I would make. You just glossed over the fact that the two teams that you didn't make these snarky remark about no continuity are the two teams that are at the top of the standings, which all right, so bonus has been there for a season and a half now.

And it's all working brilliantly. They've had time together and Fox and the rest of those guys have been playing together for a while. And the nuggets have the same basic core for the last however many years, albeit with some injuries along the way, but finally are healthy. I don't know.

Maybe it matters that those two teams are at the top of the Western Conference and the teams that are actually had their core together the longest. I don't know. Maybe. Well, look, I mean, the Kings have like Zippo postseason experience outside of Harrison Barnes and Sabonis.

But the guys have been together. Yeah, for a while for a year. I mean, it's not like they're the it's like not like they're the Celtics in 1988 being like we're playing our millions playoff game together. Like 90 something or whatever.

It's probably 100. It's Kevin Durant is more than eight days. I'm just saying I know it's Kevin Durant. He's awesome.

And if he comes back and actually stays healthy, the same caveat still apply is all some combination of continuity chemistry health for the Suns. And it doesn't mean that they won't win the West anyway. They very well, Mike. Let's talk about Denver for a second and not Denver really, but because we're supposed to be talking about the East.

That was the goal here. As long as we're not talking about the MVP ratio, no, we're going to talk about the MVP right now. So I don't want to talk about the MVP. The MVP conversation has gone so far off the rails in like every single direction that everyone needs to just take a beat, go back to your corners, drink a beer, remember what we're talking about the game where people throw a little orange ball through a little orange ring and just, you know, I think some of these conversations, including the most serious ones are very worthy conversations and very interesting things to interrogate.

I think the tenor of it has become toxic. I think the topics are all fine and very worthy of discussion, including the race issue that Kendrick Perkins brought up. I think that is very worthy of interrogation. And in fact, the voters should be the ones that are interrogating it most deeply about themselves personally and their own biases that they may or may not be aware about.

But the tone of the conversation has just got to chill out. There are three candidates for MVP right now. Yo, Kichiana, Sin and Beat. Everyone has fallen off behind them, not falling off.

It's not like Don Chitin Tatum and etcetera have fallen off, but those are, they're all incredible. All three are incredible and all worthy as they have been for the last several seasons in which we have continued to rotate them around for the last time. And I have said, even in past seasons voting for Yogech, if it's really close and you just can't find a separator that you like, maybe you don't like the Warps and Snorps, that's fine. Maybe you don't like that Yogech is only taking 14 and a half shots a game.

That's cool. If you, if it's literally splitting the thinnest of the hairs that are thinner than the ones on the top of my 45 year old head, if it's that thin, I think it's actually okay to zoom all the way out. Depending on what your preferences are as a voter and consider history, consider post season, both projecting how this player does in the post season going forward and has in the past. If those are tie breakers for you, if those things matter to you as a voter, they matter to me, maybe less so than other voters who are sitting here thinking every night about Larry Bird and LeBron James and everyone in a row and Michael Jordan, everyone in a row.

It's fine if those are tie breakers. That's cool. You want to talk about all these big cultural issues? That's fine.

All I'm asking is this. And I'm asking it, I'm asking two things. The first thing I'm asking is do not yell and scream. Like someone voting for the guy that's not on your team is more on who knows nothing about basketball in life because they happen to think, Yannes is the MVP and not Yolkich.

And I am here specifically not talking about fans or media. I'm specifically talking about people like Darryl Morrie who has frankly been juvenile on Twitter and Darryl and I go back a long way. He's making these silly arguments about how it all goes back to Russ over harden in 2017, which is a vote neither you or I made. And Darryl Morrie is a steward of the game.

He's a general manager of the Sixers. Stop making fun of people who might vote for someone other than Embiid as if they're morons with your silly tweets of children playing little square peg round hole games. Michael Malone, stop ranting about how anyone who doesn't vote for Yolkich for MVP. Well, I guess they just don't want this guy to be MVP.

What game are they watching? No, the other guys are awesome. You guys are stewards of the game. Stop doing this.

You should be above this. And I understand you got a campaign for your guy. That's fine. You can campaign for your guy without being like, you're a moron if you don't vote for this guy.

Darryl Morrie's tweet was like something about voters trying to parse team success in individual numbers. Darryl Morrie, you run the freaking nerd conference. You know better than anyone. The Sixers won, I think three more games than the nuggets last year.

Their point differential was like point two points were game different. You know, there was no demonstrable difference in team success between the fourth seeded Sixers and the six seeded nuggets last year. You know that. So stop trying to make this stupid straw man argument about team success in individual numbers.

Stop doing it. You're all better than this. And the other thing I will say Howard Beck and then I will let you talk is I keep seeing and it's driving me crazy. All of this stuff about, well, how can you give Yolkich the MVP when he hasn't done anything in the postseason?

When did, when did, when did Joellen Bead's postseason track record become better than Yolkich's? They're essentially equivalent. They both had one season where they were swept out that were not swept, but dispatched easily in the first round with underman teams. That's last season for Yolkich.

The bubble season for MB when Simmons was hurt. Simmons is still hurt. That's a different story. They both had several second round losses and one of them is made the conference finals.

That is not Joellen Bead. That's Nicole Yolkich. And Yolkich's postseason numbers are just flat out better than MBead's. They don't include defense.

I understand that. All I'm saying is this. If you're going to make these arguments, make them reasonably. Go back and just go to basketball reference.

If you're going to say like Yolkich has done nothing in the playoffs therefore, I'm voting for MBead. Just take 30 seconds and look at who's done more in the playoffs. That's all. I have no idea who I'm voting for.

There are 15 games left in the season. I have, I will say, there have been more games in the last two weeks, Chicago, Toronto, just this week, where Yolkich's passivity has been like, dude, can you take some shots? Like, can you take some shots? I think that whole like he's not taking enough shots is overblown considering how many shots he creates for others and that Denver has the second best offense in the league.

But you know, I just wish we could have this conversation reasonably. And I guess we've reached the point where it's just not possible. Everyone is either right or a moron who should be thrown out of basketball and media forever should be fired on the street, lose their families, their children, take away their house, take away their car. Zach, like literally backed away from the mic just now as he wound down his right.

It's supposed to be fun. We're supposed to be able to have these conversations and just like have a good time with it. Right. And I want to say this too.

And this is not to let Perk off the hook because the latest round of insanity which has gone on for over a week now did start with some things he said that were framed with an inaccurate premise and then proceeded to other inaccurate statistics along the way. And I don't want to go into all that and great respect for Perk. And he's coming to this from a very different perspective as a former player and he that lens is important. And I think the conversation that Perk spent on my podcast, he's my friend.

I read his entire book. It's really good. I have it on my shelf. I will get to it soon.

I hope. But I want to let I want to remove him from the discussion on one level, which is that this thing is off the rails, but it went off the rails long ago. And it's not just this last week. And it's not just that, okay, now we're also talking about race, which you point out, listen, racial bias implicit racial bias is a thing.

It exists in the world. Studies have been done about implicit racial bias in policing, in housing, in bank loans, in real estate and all kinds of things. It's real. And yes, we should all consider it, but not within the context of the way that I think Perk presented it, because the way he did it.

And I'm just going to say this, he not only denigrated MVPs one by three all time greats, he impugned the integrity of the voters who made those votes as if those guys weren't worthy. Now, if we wanted to relitigate old MVP races, we can, and especially one of Nash's has been relitigated many times since it happened. And that's fine. But to say that these guys weren't worthy or that the to imply, and he only implied it.

And I know Perk has said I didn't say this. It was implying that the only reason they won was because they were white and that the voters were largely white. And that's like we're going off into a very unfortunate place there. It doesn't mean that we can't also talk about implicit racial bias, which again is real.

It just means that saying that that's the reason or implying that's the reason they won, I think is a step too far. It implies that they weren't worthy. They were worthy, all of them. And I didn't vote for Yokit the second year to be clear.

And I didn't vote for Nash's because I couldn't vote those years because I was working for the New York Times, which doesn't allow its reporters to vote on awards. I voted for Yokit. I wasn't covering the NBA then to be clear. So yeah, I love what I can just say, like you can't blame me for this one.

If you want to argue that one fine, I had no place in that one. I did vote for Yokit the first year he won it. I voted for Janus last season. So, and I don't like you.

I don't know who I'm going to have a ballot because of the moment I don't have an employer. But so we'll see how the NBA decides that. I should hopefully be doing some freelance soon. That will keep me in the voting pool.

We'll see. But as of Tim Bon Tempt's last straw poll, I had Yokit the first straw poll back in the fall. I can't or the winner. I can't even remember.

Did I have Tatum? Did I have Curry? It does evolve over the course of the season, folks. And nothing is certain yet.

But to your point, and I want to bring it back to this, the toxicity of the MVP debate arrived a long time ago. It's been increasing over the last couple of years. And part of it is driven by, you mentioned Darryl, I've had offline discussions with him. I won't go into it.

But I've talked to him about this because I feel like it is concerning the way he has kind of weighed into this. And I'll try to put his thumb on the scale. This is feeling a lot like politics, where people start grandstanding and creating these false binaries that make you either for or against freedom. And that's what it's become.

If you were against Joellen Bied, you're now against freedom and the American way. You're against all that is good about basketball. It's exactly what you said. We have these false binaries and denigrating.

If you don't understand why this guy's MVP, then you just don't know basketball. And there's so much lobbying going on. It's not even just from team representatives. It's sometimes it's from their trainers.

It's from other people in basketball, punditry on Twitter. It's if you are the Yokich camp is now convinced that if every advanced stat in the history of mankind in the history of humankind has concluded that Yokich has a far and away lead in all these advanced stats, your Vorpsen snorps is your bottom by the way, he must be MVP. And there's no argument against it. We can't do this 24 hours ago.

I was having a conversation with a team official about Yokich's defensive stats. Right. And there's this famous thing where Yokich by the eye test is this like clumsy ophi defender and by defensive stats, he's like should be first team all defense. And this person was arguing with me about those and I said, hey man, look, I look at the stats, because people are going to think, well, I'm a warps, I have the warps and snorps.

And therefore, I should religiously am a zealot about those stats. I told this guy, listen man, respectfully, you can recite all the Yokich defensive stats that you want and the Raptor and the Bipum and the defensive box, whatever. I watch the games. He's not better than an average defensive player.

I don't you can throw all the numbers at me. You will not convince me that he is good above average defensive center. So people think I'm sitting here. I wish I could tell you who this person was and he could confirm it.

But like I'm sitting here saying, I look at the stats and some I accept and some I dismiss, the stats that are being like, well, Yokich should be XY in top 50 defender. I'm throwing him out the window. I watch the games. And we still don't have great, at least publicly available defensive metrics for individuals.

So there's that. And by the way, too, you actually got on me a few years ago when I brought this up. So I hesitate to do it. But we've had many MVPs in the past who were not exactly known for the defensive tenacity or being able to impact a game at a high level defensively.

But when I mentioned Durtanovinsky's name, you got very mad at me. But Nash, Navitski, Steph Curry, you voted for James Harden in 2017. So you and Darryl, you and Darryl, are best friends now because you didn't deny James Harden his MVP. I voted for Kawhi Leonard that year and I got laughed at and I stand by that vote.

But the year James Harden won, didn't you also vote for him? Yes. Yeah. All right.

So I voted for him for two years in a row, the year he won and the year that he lost a rush. And yeah, there's another one, James Harden, Russell Westbrook. There are plenty of MVPs who are not known for their defensive, more in fact, known as defensive minuses. So we can't all of a sudden use this as the defining reason to deny one guy, in this case, Yokich.

By the way, I'm just gonna throw in one more thing. I don't want to throw another hand grenade into this discussion. I do just want to say though, if we're going to bring race in this, it has cut both ways over the years because how many years are we on now, 25 years in a row where every white European who comes over is immediately tagged as being soft. And like, Yokich certainly suffers from the soft label still, even after winning a couple of years.

I don't think he does. I don't think so. I don't think he's regarded as a. I don't know that it's set out loud, but I think there's still kind of an impression.

I think I do think that the burden that some guys have carried, like the European imports, it has continued to this day on some level. And again, when we talk about implicit racial bias, it's implicit, right? These are unconscious things. And I think they're still kind of an unconscious knock on Yokich.

He doesn't seem the part, especially as a center because he's not a big, interior dominating dunk on you and humiliate you kind of player, right? He's not shacking. He's not going. He's not a keem.

He's not Will Chamberlain. He plays the position differently. And Black White or otherwise, I do think he's stylistically as a center that has caused people some difficulty him, right? So I just think that the unconscious bias, I do think run in multiple directions on this.

If we're going to talk about it and hopefully talk about it semiaintelligently, it is a thing that for many, many years in the NBA players who look like Yokich and come from where he comes from are viewed with a little bit of suspicion, at least upon arrival until you prove otherwise. Yeah, I think honestly that has faded away that particular one. I also think of a more interesting place to look at this issue would be the evaluation of coaches and coach of the year ballots, because that's been a huge issue within the NBA is why our coaches in front of us people, but why are African Americans underrepresented among coaches in front of us people when they dominate the player pool? And that's another interesting one.

Let's stop talking about this. We finally, yeah, the coaching wrecks at least in the last couple of seasons has been 50 50 times, which it's been I believe we reached a point where 15 or 16 of the 30 head coaches were black. Hey sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network in service.

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There's been a lot of attention on the Western Conference play and race understandably. It's been chaos. There's a million teams in it, LeBron James's team is involved. I want to flip it and talk about the East play and race and I want to go rapid fire from team number six, the Brooklyn Nets, the remnants of the Brooklyn Nets to team number 12, the Indiana Pacers, who after a thrilling over time went over the Houston Rockets last night, which I watched are now only a game behind the Bulls in 12.

So that is seven teams. Brooklyn 37 and 29 actually tied with the Knicks in the Los column. John Brunson had to leave last night's game with his foot injury, flaring up again. Hopefully he's fine.

He's been outstanding. The Nets are four and seven with McKeill Bridges in the lineup. So they are falling back in the standings. Then the Heat are seven, 35 and 32.

The Hawks are eighth, 33 and 33 having just made a coaching change. The impact of which I have not really seen in their encore play quite yet. The Raptors are ninth at 32 and 35. They are six and five with the Jakob Pertle since the trade deadline.

The Wizards who have wonderful uniforms now and will never go away are 31 and 35 clinging to nation like the pink. I think they should just make it their foot is I think it's it's pink and it should just be their uniform. It's better than it's the best thing. It's the best thing that has happened to the Washington Wizards franchise since the Charlotte Creamsicle Bobcats took Michael Kigil Trist with the number two pick of the draft and left Bradley Bill for them to take it three.

Then the Bulls at 30 and 36 and the Pacers at 30 and 37 apologized nearly in the early in the Magic. I had to draw the line somewhere. The most interesting subplots are there three number one can the Nets hold on to six number two how it is seven eight versus nine and ten shakeout right now there's a two game gap the Heat in the Hawks are seven and eight that's a huge advantage in the play in and number three can the Bulls or the Pacers crack this top 10 and particularly the Bulls obviously have urgency to do it. They also have a better scoring margin than every single one of these teams except the Nets who only have a better scoring margin than the Bulls because one spot in time they had Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving and Ben Simmons on their team.

Let's just go down the line rapid fire a few minutes on each one do that or do you have any general big picture thoughts. My general big picture thought I was looking at this yesterday so I hope that some of my stats aren't too outdated because I jot a bunch of stuff down when we were still planning to do it yesterday afternoon before Thursday night's games. I did note this so because you mentioned initially that we're going to say six through thirteen so that took us through Orlando. Sorry Orlando.

It's okay but I'm going to include them just for this particular point that's eight teams six of those eight are headed in the wrong direction and I think are headed for an off-season reckoning six of the eight of reckoning Howard that's so dramatic. It's one of my favorite words I'm sorry there's like I haven't written anything in a few weeks. If I were writing I would be writing about some Reckoning. If you did a search on Howard Beck and Reckoning I don't know how many I'd like to give you a pair of some of these times I've used that.

You come before the basketball gods and they rendered judgment. Tommy Shepherd you have hung on to Bradley Beale too long 90 years. Pennance must be paid. That's a really wrathful sounding god right there.

Well if you were going to have a Reckoning it's not going to be fun. I mean he just wants to ask Tommy a few questions. Timely oncis. Oh the oncis needs a Reckoning.

Chaplain is worthless. If you keep this up for another like 30 40 seconds it's going to turn into tips being the basketball god who's delivering the Reckoning. Treyon? It's edging very close into your tips.

Pass the ball. Okay. Ice. Six of the eight are heading in the wrong direction.

At the moment that's Brooklyn and I mean this overall I don't mean this season I mean globally broadly. Brooklyn, Miami, Atlanta, Toronto, Washington, Chicago. These are all teams that within the last couple of years well Washington's never been anywhere. They're just always trending in the wrong direction or just floating around aimlessly.

But the others were all good to great teams that made important playoff runs or in Chicago's case made a breakthrough. Six of these eight in that six through 13 group in the east are just heading in the wrong direction. When I say I see some Reckoning I just think like all right the nets are already had the Reckoning but now they got to figure out what their new direction is the heat have probably plateaued with this group. The Hawks have just been kind of lost days and confused ever since they made that conference finals unexpectedly.

The Raptors have regressed. The Bulls like yay we broke through we've got a beta playoff. They oh wait wait what happened where are we now? We should have learned up at the deadline we didn't and then there's Washington which is going to just keep Bradley Beale for the next 50 years and still be hovering somewhere three games below 500.

So that's six of the eight. The only teams that are actually on the rise, normally when you have all this flux in like a midsection of the playoff bracket and just below the playoff bracket you have some teams falling and some teams rising. The only ones that are truly like seem to be on an upward trajectory and have youth and promise are the magic and the Pacers. Everybody else in that six through eight is going in for a basketball reckoning before the tips sounding gods that Zach just channeled.

All right let's go down the standings. That's six. 10 and 16 since the ramp got injured would feel like a different lifetime. Four and seven in their last 11 games have been bad on defense and worse on offense since the trade.

Not to be not unexpected. They are a mishmash now of disparate pieces that have not played together. They don't really have a traditional experience. Number one option to kill bridges has been outstanding continuing a trend that started over the holidays season in Phoenix with both Devin Booker and Chris Paul were hurt and he like I don't even know what the term is.

He he multiplied his pick and roll frequency by nine. Nine times. Nine times. And and looked okay doing it.

There's been a lot of Spencer Dinnwidy dribbling. The rotation has been all sorts of flux. Cam Thomas sometimes that last night they played the whole bench against the bucks because their starters were bad. Cam Thomas, Joe Harris, Seth Curry their minutes go up and down and sometimes go to zero.

Ben Simmons is just out with inflammation. He had his knee drained. I don't even know what to make of that anymore. They so they haven't had a backup center.

They've been playing Finney Smith at center. Finney Smith hasn't made shots for them since the trade. They're just trying to cling to this edge that Durant built them and they have three games in the lost column on Miami. They also hold the tiebreaker right now.

They've won the head to head tiebreaker over Miami except Howard. Someone has to win the Southeast division and will get a tiebreaker advantage over a non-division winner. Why the NBA still does this is just beyond my understanding. What is fine if you want to have divisions just like all you teams are geographic closely each other so you'll play more than you'll play some other teams.

Why should it matter at all in determining playoff seats? I have no idea. It's stupid and they should stop doing it. I don't really have anything else to say about the Nets except they did what they did with the trades.

They failed spectacularly with the super team. They recouped a ton of picks and a ton of good players and this team that exists now is just a placeholder for what happens next. I don't know. You have anything to say about the Nets?

Placeholder for what's happens next but there are two things that intrigue me. One is that the aforementioned Kevin Durant injury means that the Suns might lose a little bit more and give the Nets a slightly better draft pick. There's that. But there's also the Nets pick.

We've written off the idea of the Nets having a pick because of oh well they gave everything to Houston. No, it's a swap this year and the Rockets are so god awful that unless the ping pong balls could backfire. But the Nets should actually want to be in the lottery. Like a late season tank here wouldn't be the worst idea in the world because if the Nets are in the lottery the Rockets have the far worse record and the Nets will stun it with a lottery pick.

And even if by some weird ping pong ball bounce the Nets leaped up ahead of the Rockets and it's a swap. Well then they're still swapping to another lottery pick. So the Nets actually have incentive to lose right now. The other thing is just on the court.

Like one of the things that was interesting about the trades they made was they just brought in all these like really versatile wings and two guys who all could play defense at a high level across multiple positions. I thought they'd be better defensively. Like you knew they'd struggle offensively without Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant duh. Even with McKeill Bridges all of a sudden turning into whoever he's turning into.

I was 53% shooting 48% on three. He's like it's not he's not like checking up inefficient scoring number. He's been amazing. It's been awesome.

It's the thing you'd like to see a little bit more of. But that's what happens when a guy who's never had this kind of role against this kind of role. Yeah. I thought with the cushion they had that they still had a really good chance to stay in the top six and they still might because the teams behind them are also flawed.

But they they've been on an alarming trajectory and worse than I thought they might be given they had like at least a lot of good interesting players who at a minimum would defend. And I thought would be more a little bit more like the Kenny Atkinson version of the Nets where they just you know play their asses off and beat teams by out hustling them and scoring when they could. But yeah, not much else on them. Well they're kind of small.

And honestly one of the big impacts that Durant had in Phoenix immediately was they felt bigger and longer. And as I'm saying those words I realize how they sound you could feel Durant's size on the back line for Phoenix. The Phoenix team that had been playing bridges at the four camp Johnson at the four like that. That's a big thing.

And Clackston really Clackston's had a bunch of single digit games all in a row except for one or two maybe in the last 15, 12 games or whatever it is. He's the one whose offense has really suffered without those guys to draw two to the ball and get him open slipping to the rim. Okay next to the standings Miami 35 and 32 26 in offense and we have to rebrand this season 26 is the last. 26 is the last among teams who are trying because that means the four teams below you are Charlotte San Antonio Houston and who am I for Detroit to twa.

They are 12th and 17th defense. They have the 23rd best worst point differential in the NBA which is kind of crazy and they are where they are because they have a really good record in just an enormous amount of close games. They've played more close games than anyone in the league and it's not even close. And you want to look at this team and say well they were one shot from the finals last year with essentially the same roster like minus a PJ Tucker plus a healthy Victor Rolled Deipo plus healthy in theory maybe Kyle Lowry will come back and some bit parts here and there.

And they are plus six per 100 possessions when Butler and BAM play together strong numbers not great strong. Their experience they're tenacious they know how to win in the playoffs. They could be dangerous. On the other hand they just have been very good.

The top of the east is much better this year than it was last year when they were the number one seed and had home court throughout the playoffs. And to me this year it just feels like some years you just feel like it's not going to happen. That's what this year feels like from Miami. Like Kyle Lowry has been out for so long and he wasn't very good when he was in.

Now he's coming back like Victor Rolled Deipo's missed a lot of time. He has actually looked pretty good lately. Do I trust that. Cody Zeller is heavily involved now.

Kevin Love is starting. Kevin Love's a big name and it's done incredible things in the NBA. He's going to make the Hall of Fame. It's not a great sign when like he just instantly becomes your starting power forward and you're like can you give us like 20 minutes a night.

We're probably going to close games with Caleb Martin who's doing like a preposterous amount on both ends of the floor guarding every point guard Trey young Darius Garland. The sposter call him Sean Marion this week. Did I hallucinate that? Did somebody I thought spolster somebody repaired him to Sean Marion.

I mean I love Caleb Martin and he has been outstanding. I'm not getting that wrong. I swear that's the floor but let's not let's not invoke the name of the Matrix. No.

It just it just feels like every possession is such a grind for them to score. I mean it's just you want even on TV. I'm just like tired watching all these cuts and handoffs all of which lead to like band taking a 13 foot jumper or Jimmy taking a leaning floater. They are team they are Eastern Conference team floater team floater is Memphis Miami is Eastern Conference team floater.

I just it feels like it's not going to happen this year. They'll be the proverbial like uh oh Miami in the first round. Uh oh and like don't steal one of the first two games and everybody be like here come the heat just feels like a tall order to beat those really good teams four times in seven games for these guys. They're just annoying enough aggressive enough, tough enough everything else to actually do more than just the one game.

Oh right like they you know they're gonna push somebody like it's gonna be a six game series. Who knows maybe they even stretch a series to seven before like then getting blown out in game seven or something because they just don't have the offense like they're I still think there's a little bit about oh there because nobody wants to deal with those guys. Uh well Jimmy in the playoffs is is is uh whatever wherever you rank him among regular season players he's five to seven spots higher than that in the playoffs. He is and it's funny because for a guy who like he's a really unique like star of this era right everybody else has these gaudy gaudy stats and especially the scoring stats and he doesn't he just he wins you games in a thousand other different ways and then you get to the postseason and suddenly he's like going like you know 25 8 and 8 or something and you're where did that come from?

He doesn't put him up like 40 once every six games if you really did it right and shooting at a 3.0 percentage than he ever does in the regular season. Uh I don't know that's just a clear sound it feels like it though. Um so there there's that weird elements of unpredictability there but yeah it's what you said like watching the the heat and calves a couple nights back and it goes down to the last couple of minutes and the heat it's exactly what you said Zach it's painful watching them doing it's working so hard to just try to find a shot they just there's no not enough shot creation there um they've always been getting by on you know defense and grit and basketball smarts and and scheming and everything else but like the offense just doesn't have the firepower um they're they're way down toward the bottom in the NBA and three pointers made they're way down toward the bottom in three point percentage in an era of three point dominance in this league like you can't be shooting 33 percent as a team from three which is what they are um they have three players who are shooting over 34 percent from three can I guess who they are like can I guess they're yes over 34 percent which is a low low bar like that's not even that's barely passable is can you just tell me are any of them guys who like don't play so they're just it's just not are they all rotation players um uh one yes no two two yes one that's sort of occasion Tyler hero yes gave Vincent no all right well I've done quite well on this quiz uh maybe I should just quit while I'm at Caleb Barton yes um and the third one is a who he played for all star if there were such a thing well okay all right because if we put brought this to the Turner uh studio crew they would not well don't tell me hold on this is great audio right now me struggling find out who who this could be um why it's not Max Drew's he's had a bad year shooting um uh I give up I don't care he would highsmiths oh okay forget he's not in the rotation he's mrs. he's mrs.

he's not in my own podcast earlier this season he played a bunch of games okay let's talk I still I still think look the heater going to make the play in at worst the only interesting stuff like to me is are they seven or eight or can they catch Brooklyn for six and they they are going to be an unpleasant team to play in the playoffs let's go to the next team in the standings the Atlanta Hawks 33 and 33 two game cushion um on Toronto uh Quinn Snyder has been the coach for a hot minute not much has changed they still don't take very many threes they're their infrequency has increased a little bit there's been a little some tweaks to the offense like Murray and and Trey Young are running a couple pick and rolls together here and there you but it's it's hard to put your imprint on a team which when he games to go the same hold over coaching staff below you which will not probably be the case next year once he has once Quinn Snyder has changed to make over the staff um the Hawks I mean the reckoning the the Hawks do have four home games in the bag and a middling you know middle of the road schedule so they should be in good shape here their starting lineup is plus 11 for 100 possessions and I think they're they're pretty deep it's been interesting to see Quinn Snyder and even Nate McMillan before him juggle since the trade deadline you have these two guards who are going to play 35 minutes a game and then competing for minutes at the two three and the four you know the two one of the guards rests are Bogdanovitch, Sadiq Bay, A.J. Griffin who's been bench lately DeAndre Aiden, John Collins, Jalen Johnson it's a lot of guys and when I watch them play it feels just feels to me it's just my comments and stake it feels like Bogdan Bogdanovitch will be on another team next year and John Collins I mean I don't I'm afraid to say it um if they don't trade John Collins this summer they should give him like a 0.01 equity stake in the franchise if they don't trade him now when he some games he doesn't play very much they just lost a two game series against Miami lost both games the first one he was like invisible they should have given him something if they don't trade him this summer the Hawks are fine the Hawks are okay they're fine they'll be they'll be seven or eight probably sneak into the playoffs probably be first round road kill again like I just I can't get fired up talking about the Hawks has John Collins and the Hawks set the record yet for most consecutive months on the trade block without being traded look I'm not sure who that list else who else is on that he's got there's got to be some sort of unofficial record there Paul Springfield it's been it's been a while and again with this crowded guy they they have leaned in more and more to playing Sadiq Bay and DeAndre Hunter at the three and the four with the two star guards and either Capella or Akango who I love both of them actually I love and that's why it just feels to me that just common sense feels like well Donavich and Collins are the ones who get squeezed this summer and then up somewhere else obviously the playoffs can't change everything and I like Jalen Johnson has been getting minutes over Griffin I like Griffin and Jalen Johnson's been good lately he's a little spastic out there but he plays really hard defensively as good instincts and he's he's super athletic yet incredible put back dunk against Miami the other day if he can make shots and he's taking threes I think he's shooting 30 percent on 80 something attempts to share he'd barely shot him before that 26 of 86 he's interesting player there's like I just the trade Dejante Murray thing considering what they traded 60 to 70 games in the Trey young Dejante Murray Perry has Perry has not worked like it had and the reason I know it hasn't worked is because they traded three valuable graphics and they're 33 and 33 and those guys have been mostly healthy so they have work to do to get that to a place where it works because right now they made a big trade and they're not any better for having made it a couple quick data points here the Hawks have not won three games in a row since mid-January when they won five straight um that's a little alarming it's funny there's a symmetry here at Zach you and I started this season doing the most confusing teams podcast going and I feel like as I was compiling just just going down this list yesterday and then jying stuff down there's a lot of confusing teams now here at the end where I still don't know like I still look I still look at the Hawks and think they should be better than this they just should like I understand like there's some awkwardness there with the backward and there's some you know an experiment that maybe hasn't worked and maybe won't work maybe they have to reassess and decide to trade one of those two guys um but I still think they should be better than this and so I did the I didn't get to the on off on a way I do have the on off also their current starting five Trey Dejante Hunter Collins Capella uh that starting line up is 20 and 14 yeah there plus 11 per 100 yes so 20 and 14 um is like a 48 win pace so when I say I feel like they should be better than this they are actually better than this if that line up and play more together so there's there's like you know is that a silver lining is that an upside is that proof that this could actually still work maybe um I don't know but but for now they just feel they're very frustratingly underwhelming um they do have there's 16 games left 10 at home and they haven't been all that much better at home than on the road if I recall but um but that's in their favor so if we're if we're looking at the you know where's the the um where's the potential movements in all this you know they could overtake the heat potentially if they get on a little roll here down the stretch on a quince nier maybe something clicks into place um I don't know if they get to six but um taller i i was that it's a taller order taller than that's have to really curve the nets have to really lean into the tank thing um but the hox can can leapfrog the heat for sure and then it's just a matter of how far the nets fall or or or elect to fall I am 100 against the nets leaning into the tank by the way I think they should try really hard to make the playoffs and salvage something of this season give these guys some post-season experience together but that's neither here nor there let's go to the next so that's like if we're tearing teams there's a slight fall off now between Atlanta and then these next four teams Toronto Washington Chicago and Indiana who will not go away and is 28 and 26 with Tyree's Halliburton in the lineup two and 11 without him with Tyree's Halliburton and Miles Turner they're just a good team like they're a good maybe overstating it they're a solid team that's as good as any of these other teams none of whom are over 500 none of whom are within two games of 500 so that's no great shakes start with any one of these that you want who's the most interesting team to you who has the most to gain or most to lose here in this race this is teams nine to twelve in the east right so Raptors Wizards Bulls Pacers like the most intriguing is the Pacers just because as I mentioned earlier like they're young and on the upswing and you mentioned the record with Tyree's Halliburton if he doesn't go down a few weeks back um they're they're probably not as predicament they're more solidly in that play and group um I suspect the Pacers will end up in like if we were if we were just predicting this right now uh because we all love making predictions I think the Pacers make the play in and and probably that's that's that's not unspicy they their odds are very very bad like the projection system given them like a 25% chance of making the play in but that's because a lot of those factored in like they would be really bad before the season so the priors is that that's people like to say we're bad and their scoring margin is Miles worse than all these teams part of that was built up when Halliburton was injured and they were getting the doors blown off them yeah I just I don't I don't know what to make of the Bulls um I don't trust the Wizards at all um and the the Pacers feel like the team that wants to be there right I'm not some of these other teams want to be there there was an interesting observation that somebody made or just a comment somebody made to me when I at the trade deadline when the Raptors traded for Pertile and everybody had been talking about like the parts that they were gonna sell off right they're gonna be sellers not buyers everything else and I said to somebody uh with another team what do you make of them going the other direction and you mentioned earlier the stat there's six and five with yaka Pertile um and by the way 11th and defensive rating during that time and defenses has plagued them all season so he certainly has propped them up so maybe you know maybe that was the right move um but I said what do you what do you make of that why are they going where are they doubling down on what seems like a lost season and the comment this this uh official with another team made was the Raptors for not to still totally believes in this group and the acquiring yaka Pertile was a vote of confidence in what they think this group can still do with maybe you know a defensive minded big man behind that group but the players don't the the add-on was the the front office believes I think it was I'm not sure if the players do and that was interesting by the way Fred Van Vliet um epic epic uh officiating rants and only got 35 000 I'm not advocating that it should have been more by Eddy stretch and I love Fred Van Vliet and I love candor and uh while I wasn't sure if that was all justified or or uh you had actually a great thing on this um on tv the other day was Zach but so you said it very well I like it's just not supportable but like listen I guy speak their mind I'm always gonna be a favorite guy speaking their mind I'm just like in this league in this league going after the officials to that level and naming a guy and then basically saying like two thirds of the officials on any given night wow um David David Stern needless to say uh would have levied a much much harsher penalty than 35 000 but that's neither here nor there i thought it was 30 not 35 was it i think it was i don't know um i remember was Fred Van Vliet maybe sweating a little bit it's 30 000 even if you make 20 million dollars a year 30 000 car man that's like it's like it's like $1 is a is a Toyota sedan it's it's it's something i don't know how much cars cost by the way that might not buy you a Toyota sedan I don't know it's it's one month it's one month of it's one month of rent in New York that's what it is um so I will say this though I do think um that when when a player or a coach goes that far I think the danger is you know if you were just picking on one referee by name it's one thing when you basically said like two out of three on any given night like look people are human we talked about implicit bias earlier people are human um referees might be looking at you a little sideways after that and you're probably not getting the benefit of the doubt or at the times in the game where you're going to now try to argue a call when they've been you know generally tolerant in this era of guys coming at them to argue a call to complain everything else you might get a shorter fuse if the referees think you've just impugned all of them so I'm not sure it's the most advisable way to go about this um but anyway um let's talk about the Raptors and the Pacers since we started with them yeah one of them is ninth that's Toronto and one of them is 12th that's the Pacers so the top and the bottom of this mini tier um the Raptors have the toughest remaining schedule left in the conference but they have been much better with purtle his defense and I think it's just adding another guy who doesn't want to hold the ball who just wants to screen and like facilitate from the elbow has really just sort of loosened up their half court offense they're 26th in half court offense remember what I told you about 26 26th is last the teams below them are the tank brigade in half court offense according to clean the glass and they still play the same basic way they just want to win the offense the rebounding turnover possession game and they can't shoot it's all you know but Van Vite has been playing a lot better lately the Van Vite purtle pick and rollers kind of change their offense it's complicated Scotty Barnes role a little bit because he had emerged as kind of their de facto screen setting quote unquote center um there's there's a lot of talent here and I think the purtle trade to that executives point was interesting almost not in so much as it was a voter confidence in this season as it was a signal that they want to continue to be pretty good going forward and they think they have a way to reshape their team in the pretty near term probably around Siakam definitely around Barnes to become better than what they are now which is mediocre you know that's what their record is you are what your record what your record is um I think they're probably in the aggregate better than mediocre but this mix hasn't worked which makes this offseason season to me a time when they're obviously going to be pretty active and Vite's gonna be likely a free agent um Gary Chen Jr who's coming off the bench now is going to be a free agent um and they have decisions to make again with Ananobi who will be extension eligible pretty soon and the CBA comes into that and all that but that's the signal to me on them but they're just like they're a good team I just the offense just hasn't worked it just they just the offense the end of the there's their mediocre their 16th and offense 18th and defense their scoring margin is basically dead even for the season this haven't been that good the Pacers have the easiest one of the easiest schedules left in the Eastern Conference which gives them a fighting chance I think more so than the than the projection systems indicate Ben Mather and got injured last night took a bad fall on his foot that that could change things for them although they're starting to get stuff from Kristu Artte finally I love watching their team man Halliburton is a freaking artist and Miles Turner Miles Turner has had the best totally untalked about season I just I guess people don't care about the Pacers Miles Turner has been awesome this season everyone knows about the defense people think of him as this sort of pick and pop spot up shooter the transformation for him this season and Halliburton deserves credit for this too is he's become much more of a roller rim pressure guy um just interior threat than he's been in the past and they play all these four guard lineups around him my favorite Pacers that by the way when they play Halliburton buddy healed mather in who's just a tank and Miles Turner those four guys so they're three best veterans if you want to call Halliburton a veteran now and their rookie first team all rookie candidate he's not a rookie of the year candidate I'm sorry Ben Matheron they are plus 12 per 100 positions that quartet plus 94 points in 291 minutes that's fun man that's pretty fun the Pacers are fun where they're going I don't know because compared to these other rebuilding teams now they have a they have an all-star in Halliburton does Halliburton ever become a top 10 to 12 player in the NBA with that build it's gonna be tough and they just don't have the bites at the apple draft wise that these other rebuilding teams do especially if they're gonna be a decent team they have Boston's pick this year Cleveland's pick this year probably Houston's second round pick this year which is a good pick but the Boston Cleveland picks are gonna be me and that's it for extra picks so it's long-term we'll see but they are the lights watch and I wouldn't be shocked if they make the play and like they're not far behind and they have an easy schedule and the evidence suggests they're a 500 team with Tyre's allverd yeah um all of which uh is is why I have I know it's a tough road but I do have a certain amount of confidence in them um they are you know it's it's an unproven team with this configuration right like it is still like not youth young but Halliburton has just kind of become this guy over the last year or so and it's you know your plus with the Pacers he was becoming that guy in Sacramento so there's you know like if it's pressure down the stretch right the virtual playoff games that aren't playoff games the games you have to win just to make the play in and it becomes like a playoff type of intensity or pressure for them we'll see how they respond to that but um but yeah there's also as you say it's truly at its core a lot of veterans with you know guys like Turner and healed um so I I like I like where the Pacers are I think they're fun I think they're interesting I think they're promising you're right the draft capital and the tools to improve going forward once we get to the off season are difficult but that's also for an office that I think has been pretty savvy right just acquiring Halliburton in the first place acquiring Subonos and all the depot for Paul George um like they they managed to make the right best when they have to do something dramatic I like to the Turner extension to in the way they structured it to be a balloon payment this year and a pretty reasonable rate going forward I think that if they ever want to trade him I think he will have some value on that deal and look the lack of draft capital and all this like part of the reason you get all draft this draft capital is to get a player like Tyree Saliburton and they got that guy um already uh they have you know like there's an internet part is kind of falling off a little bit Aaron Eastman is all right like they have a lot of all right guys the backup center positions a little bit of a mishmash of Isaiah Jackson and J-O and Smith but they're well coached they're fun to watch and they have a star point guard and a rookie in math or in who has can clearly score and I think has looked a little better like his tunnel vision has not been as bad in the last month he's throwing more passes he's not just barely kind of blindly to the rim um I don't know if I'll pick them to make the play him but they got a shot let's talk let's wrap with uh Washington and Chicago um the Bulls I think have the most at stake among all of these teams they are 30 and 36 it feels like they've been playing better lately because Zaklavian has been on a heater and they just beat the Nuggets in Denver and the Nuggets have only lost five times all season at home like that's that's like three wins beating the Nuggets in Denver it's like three wins but it really is only one win and then you look at it's like they're four and nine in their last 13 games four and nine they're 24th in offense and sixth in defense and I've said this before if you had told me the beginning of the season the Bulls built around Demardaros and Zaklavian and the Cola Vujovic would be sixth in defense 66 games into the season I would have said wow top four seed like they in the four five series for their offense to be 24th is a disaster it's been unwatchable for most of the season they don't shoot threes they don't get to the line they don't offense a rebound they just sort of hand the ball okay hand off dribble okay who wants to take a pull up to now Demard you want to do it okay it was just kind of move around no one really does anything no one gets into the teeth of the okay we'll post vouch vouch you get a couple jump hooks cute nice never get to the foul line take a jump hook but they've put this new starting five with Beverly and Caruso in place of Pat Williams and I would assume no who was overmatched frankly is the nominal point guard has has some like ferocity and juice to it doesn't have any like extra shooting or all that much playmaking it doesn't have more playmaking but it's just got some like speed and nasty and physicality and unpleasantness to it and it's killing it man that lineup is plus 58 130 minutes I don't know man given what they traded their pick is top four protected out to door to Orlando they better make the freaking play better make it and they have a pretty hard schedule going forward even split of home and road games their tiebreaker situation is pretty good with most of these teams I feel like they're gonna be hell bent on making it and they're gonna crash the party at the expense of the wizards I don't know why I think that the wizards have a bunch of home games in hand and have been pretty good when healthy I just feel like if you look if you stack up the players like how are the bulls not gonna make the plan I know Lonzo I guess we're talking about the Lonzo news that will report yesterday that he might need a third surgery and he is the thing that ties a lot of this together but man you make the plan can we can you make the laws yeah Lonzo ball isn't the reason that their offense is is blah like I think he'd help a lot he would help play making helps having somebody else to handle the ball and suck on someone who shoots threes other than Levine that would help but he's not the reason that they're what 24th or whatever an offensive efficiency um so I think we're still like the impression that they left before the all star break was they're just ready to cash out they lost six in a row heading in the all star break unless we forget they've they've kind of recovered a little since then but it was by beating Brooklyn without Kyrie and Katie beating the wizards who are the wizards beating the Pistons who are taking and and then the surprising win over Denver but it gives the illusion of them being a lot better than they are because they want at Denver and because they had a few wins in recent memory but like you mentioned the schedule is tough coming for the bulls this is why among the reasons I don't have faith that they're gonna actually hold on because I think they're more they're probably closer to the team that lost six in a row before the all star break than they are this team that is sort of even out recently they've got a home game against Sacramento coming up and Minnesota Miami they go on the road they've been back to back with Philly home and road that's tough they have a three-game road trip out west to Portland and the two LA teams that's tough and they come home and play the Lakers again maybe LeBron's back um even if he's not like 80s you know playing like a beast um they have a home game against Memphis they've finished the season out with they've got road games at Milwaukee and Dallas and then finish with a home game against Detroit but like there's a lot of tough games in there there's a lot of tough games in there maybe they're not gonna make the play in I mean I know they had hard skills I said they had hard skills but when you just list the team do you know what though this team has gacked away so many games against bad teams and played the good teams better than they played the bad teams that maybe that's healthy for them and they're whatever dysfunction they're playing with they also have again a bet the best-wearing margin of all these teams yeah and the reason they're where they are one of the reasons is they're they have in the worst crunch time team in the NBA after being insanely amazing last year and all the you know smart people are like well they'll never be able to duplicate that again the barter rolls will never have that kind of season to get the crunch time and those people were right damn it they were right that voice in charge of the reckoning to offset the the tibsian angry god maybe they're a panel yeah they could be a panel you'll trade it so much for the call of utubits you will be damned enjoy the 12th pick uh we animated we did an animated version of this where you're voicing them we gotta get my game of zones friends back uh I don't even know what I was saying oh there's six and 19 in games that are within three points in the last three minutes it's hard to be that bad unless you're not trying to win games so you know who knows I don't know they have a lot of players I like I just I you read the schedule yeah they're gonna win a fair share of these games they just are they're they're gonna win a fair share of these games and I don't know if they can't if they can't get past the wizards who are wizards are good the wizards are fine they're plus five per 100 possessions when they have beal porzingis and when they have beal and porzingis kuzma doesn't feel needed to shoot 5,000 times a game because god knows there's been a lot of Kyle kuzma going on this season he's been pretty good the lawn right's been amazing what's their record in the pink uniforms that's what I want to know well they're number one in my heart whatever it is I don't care what their records the uniforms are beautiful beautiful whatever I'm going to DC shortly and I will be buying not a uniform because I'm a 45 year old man and I cannot wear a basketball jersey in good conscience but a t- a t-shirt version of the cherry blossom uniform I just have to pick up either a blank one or what player would I like to if they have a dalon right 55 cherry I love the lawn right I just sometimes you just have a soft swap for guys I love the lawn right I have nothing else interesting to say about these two teams I really don't it's just the bulls are depressing the lawns all stuff just sucks and you know both of them are are long term it's like what are we really doing here one team has played a lot of cards to get here that Chicago and has lost a lot of talent out the door and I saw I can't remember who tweeted it last night but like Lowry Markinin was torching the magic who didn't have one Del Carter junior who's been the bulwark of their defense and was like man the bull said both of those dudes then before that they had Jimmy Butler and and they don't have Franz Wagner it's just not great it's not great it's it's not great it's not great I mean listen odds aside records aside schedules everything else aside I think we agree that we all just rather see if we're gonna pick a tent like if the heat Hawks and Raptors are all making at the minimum the play-in and there's only one spot up for grabs between the teams we just discussed I think the basketball universe would rather see the Pacers like Bulls and Wizards fans notwithstanding the Pacers the team that would be the most fun to throw into the mix there because they are the young team on the rise it's always fun to see a young team make its first playoff and or now play in debut and and and and you know try to make their mark and they'll be feisty and they'll they'll really want it it'll mean something to them as opposed to a Wizards team that feels like even with some pieces that are more recent is just feels played out in a Bulls team that you know it already has like just whatever luster there was if there wasn't he just feels gone I just the Pacers are the most that's that's the team that the basketball gods should should grant us if tips if angry tips God isn't too angry I can't believe I'm saying first of all I don't like watching the Raptors I find the Raptors hard to watch this year I think it's it's it's like playing in sludge it's just and I was saying there's only one spot up for grabs but you're right I know what you're saying I just feel like the Raptors should not be grandfathered in because they're the Raptors I can't believe I'm saying this I think just purely entertainment purposes like who would I rather watch of those teams you mentioned I'm taking Washington I just I kind of like watching the Wizards poor Zingas is good and they really love where they where they start the two centers together poor Zingas and gafford and that's worked then they separate them in a lot of games they never play together again after their first stints together and then they play poor Zingas at the five a lot and it's like oh my god they have a lot of shooting so much shooting that teams are putting their centers on Danny Abda who's a reluctant and not good shooter and putting wings on poor Zingas which is kind of an interesting strategic gambit we see versions of around the league but it's fun to watch the Wizards problem solve around all that um I kind of like Corey Kisperd's big bandana headband is nice I like that he runs around great hair he looks like Roger Federer out there like Roger Federer playing Wimbledon in 2001 or something it looks great um I just and Beel is a really stylish player he's just he's really crafty and fun to watch he's the he might be the best in the NBA at the Steve Nash dribble under the hoop thing but what he does and Chris Paul does is to is he'll stop and take a like a 12 foot jumper along the baseline and make it like seeming like I think they're kind of fun to watch this is the most positive Wizards coverage they've ever gotten on a national NBA podcast in like 15 years right now happening right now niche or non-age basketball podcasts either of us might who's was just out there being like I'm a free agent I'm shooting like I'm shooting when I get the ball I'm shooting and I'm shooting again then I'm gonna shoot more and in crunch time I'm gonna keep shooting and I don't really care I'm gonna get it's fun to watch there's something to that there's something to that I'm with you I still lean Pacers for intrigue and upside and youth and getting to watch Tyree's Halliburton new things but yeah you're not wrong Charlotte's only 11 games out in the lost column how are there nine and ten in the last 19 games maybe if they go on a run the Hornets the suddenly competent Hornets they're only 11 games out listen in a couple of years when Adam Silver has introduced the play into the play in tournaments where the 13 through 15 teams play for the right to play the 11th and 12th winner who then gets to play the 10th winner they should they should remember when you were a kid in like the base minimum you would get for participating in any sport like for me it was was like all right you came like seven out of eight or something you would get the brown participation ribbon but that was like that was the worst ribbon to get it was the brown ribbon and it just said like participant on it or something that's what they do for a reason they should that's what the winner of the southeast divisions to get this year a big brown banner that the NBA makes them hang in their arena that just says number one participant southeast division 2022-23 congratulations on your stupid tiebreaker I was the very first soccer team I ever played on when I was like in fourth grade or something we lost every game that season however many games they fourth grade soccer team but we lost every game and at our at our post-season pizza party to celebrate that it was all over I guess they handed out trophies to all of us and it was like you know there's little marble looking stands with the little brass looking or whatever I can ball with it but it wasn't the guy kicking the ball it was just the ball on a little pedestal but the the inscription on all of them it had your name and the name of the team which was like I don't know the panthers or something I can't remember exactly and beneath that it said in quotes I tried oh really that's what I was a participation term I tried it said I tried we it was it was kind of like the the sardonic humor of the coaches who ordered up these trophies it was kind of like the yeah we lost there's no way these are league-sanctioned trophies if they're if they're if they're undermining the accomplishments of the young children involved it was it was it was the 70s man like nobody cared about hurting anybody's feelings we were okay with making fun of the fact that we sucked it was the 70s man Phil Jackson was cruising around New York you don't know man you don't know you kids you just don't know how it was we were raised on HR puff and stuff don't look that up the Chicago Bulls just two quick things on the Bulls I like Kobe White I think Kobe White's had a nice season for them and I can't quit Pat Williams I just can't quit them they use them as a screener sometimes with boot space in the floor I like Pat Williams he's only 21 years old by the way none of these teams are all that interesting they the haw the hawks I've been watching the hawks a lot because I want to see the Queen Snyder factor and I feel like I just haven't seen it yet other than Trey Young seems to be trying a little bit on defense which is nice that's that's the one I've just been gravitating to their games because I want to see this team's been so mid-range heavy so old school so your turn my turn here comes this mad genius creative coach what does he want to do with this team and other than like a kangu shooting a three now and then and Trey and Dejante pairing up and pick and rolls I just haven't I haven't seen all like it doesn't you wouldn't watch it and be like well something changed they must have a new coach like if you didn't know you wouldn't I don't know so that that's that's it but they'll make the first truth yeah if you ask me to pick right now who's making the playoffs from this group let's say Brooklyn stays in sixth if they fall into the play and they're gonna be vulnerable I don't care what seed they are they're seven if they're gonna be vulnerable to getting beaten twice as the Clippers were last year let's say they stay six I'm taking Miami and Atlanta I think Miami shoot it there's I just can't see Miami not getting out of the play in if they're if they're stuck in it they'll get out of it and I just think on talent like no one is scared of Atlanta they just they don't bring the same kind of physicality as Toronto but I think they're more coherent maybe but Toronto's been pretty good Toronto with hurdles been good it's gonna be fun these things have like these teams have something to play for and my favorite thing about the tournament the play internment is how we get to this point in the season and you feel yourself saying things you have this out of body experience I do what I'm saying to myself oh man washington Indiana tonight that's a big it's a big game it's like a big game and then the out of body part of you is like dude you're calling that a big game like that's a that game sucks like the play and is really tricked you but they've created all these like fake like lotted steak tonight in Washington in the nation's capital pacer's in town big play and implications like oh okay I'm excited you know you know it gets like yes by the way it's all of that and again kudos to the NBA because the play and has made these games more meaningful which is the point like we can we can joke about the fact that ultimately and whatever it's just for the honour of getting eliminated in the first round of it so the honour of losing the play in and having that humiliation but it has given us stakes this late in the season that we didn't have before and it's made these games more meaningful so teams are actually trying and their fans are actually engaged all of that's good but nothing can amp up a game the way that dreemon green dropping a podcast hours before with video attached by the great production value there kudos to his producers for putting up the print version of the quotes from Dylan brooks and then highlighting them so that as dreemon went through it like great production value great show phenomenally done I actually decided at one point yesterday this is what I want like I want dreemon especially once he gets to retirement just every day just just trash talk somebody just ripped out of somebody in a public way that is so entertaining for about two three minutes that it's like I just heard that I got to watch this game the night now of course it helps that dreemon was involved in it and you know Dylan brooks involved in it but like I just I want some version of that every day like I was I tweet yesterday I fell off my chair watching that video and it was like you couldn't wait to turn on that game we need some version of that for the play and teams so I don't know maybe you know paloban carot needs to like do a you know a three minute podcast with video and some highlighted text from somewhere well there was a ban carot de jonte murri thing over the summer there we go stemming from one of the seattle pro and games we can lead into that that's right that's right I have to point with the Warriors where I feel like and I say this seriously I watch a lot of their games I feel like I don't even need to watch them anymore because I just like where's the game okay I know what's gonna happen like it's just it's crazy in Oklahoma City they'll get rolled okay in Memphis they'll get rolled oh it's in the chase center they'll look like a 73 win team amazing Howard Beck it's wonderful to see you I hope to see you soon that bridge in the background looks very nice the Brooklyn bridges yeah you can find his old work at Sports Illustrated and his new work will be at Place TBD which will be incredibly lucky to have him shame on SI Howard Beck great to see you great to see you too my friend best your family thank you