Wait, you're listening to Radio Lab from WNYC. Hey, I'm Chad Abumrod. I'm Robert Croweich. This is Radio Lab, and here we are in this moment where we're about to get started with another election cycle.
Another Iowa, another New Hampshire, Carolina. All of that. And this is the time when we reporters decide, well, we're going to have to tell you some stuff and you're going to have to decide what matters to you. And the story we're going to tell on this podcast is about a moment, a shockingly recent moment.
So I felt when I first heard this story. A moment of when what reporters decide to tell and what people decide to value really changed. So we're going to take you back to an evening in 1987, Tom Fiedler, a political reporter for the Miami Herald. It's late at night.
He's in his office. I'm at my desk and I'm just in fact packing up to go home. My phone rang and I'm thinking, what's probably my wife and she's wondering why I haven't left yet. I said, all right, I'll pick it up.
But when he picked up the phone, it turned out this sub. It turned out it was not a voice he recognized. It was a woman's voice, maybe in her late 20s. As you said to him, I have something you need to know.
It was a tip about one of the most powerful and charismatic men in American politics, former Senator Gary Hart, who at the time was not only the most likely candidate to become the Democratic nominee, he was very possibly going to be the next president of the United States. Her words to me were, Gary Hart is having an affair with one of my best friends. And she told him, basically, I can prove it. And I was rather, I guess, a thumbs truck by that.
And he thought, well now what do we do? Now, if you're of a certain age, you probably remember this story, you probably know what happens next. But even if you've never heard of Gary Hart, you still probably know the outline of this story. The accusations.
How do we start standing up in the middle of the world? Then the dial. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. And then after that, the whole wall-to-wall media thing.
It just goes on and on and on until you want to take your head off the shoulders, put it on the sidewalk and beat it with a baseball bat. But the thing that's easy to forget is that it wasn't always like this. No, Hart was the first to walk into this vortex of social forces. And after that, the rules of political journalism and politics change almost immediately.
That, by the way, is met by. National political columnist for Yahoo News. What a book about this incident which he called, All the Truth Is Out. In that book he makes it out.
This is the moment, Gary Hart, 1987, when political journalism slid off the rails. Or, you wanna argue, when it finally got serious? Well, you know, it just flashed back a minute because I think the context is important. 1984.
Hart kind of comes from nowhere. It's a whole new ball game in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination. He runs for president, dorms New Hampshire. Senator Gary Hart is on his way to a clear cut victory over Walter Mondale.
He meets Mondale there and becomes a political celebrity. This country cannot stand four more years of Reaganomics for the rich. Gary Hart. Gary Hart, the senator from Colorado.
Gary Hart. I'm a Democrat and proud of it. Hart was this tall, good looking Democrat. He's got great wavy hair.
I mean, dashing, handsome, charismatic and young. This is Leslie Saul. CBS. She's covered politics for 40 years now, works for 60 minutes.
He was cool and smart. Women liked him too. He's an anti-orthodox Democrat, very liberal, anti-nukes. He is sort of the Bill Clinton before Bill Clinton.
He doesn't get the Democratic nomination in 1984. Walter Mondale does by a nose, but when Mondale gets crushed by Ronald Reagan. Hart is immediately presumed to be the next nominee of the party. At a time when these things were more obvious.
So, that's for it's 1987. Like it or not, campaign 88 is underway. And the leading contender for it, Jerry Hart, in the capture, he's winning. He's running double digits higher than any Democrat.
And he's projected to beat George Bush, the Republican Republican, the next president of the United States, Jerry Hart. It felt like, look, this is a guy who is changing politics, who is unafraid to speak the truth, who is willing to be really clear about what he wants to do. That's Kevin Sweeney. He was Arts Press Secretary in 1987.
He joined the campaign just a few years out of college. 23, I'm idealistic. The first time we really met, I was wearing a necktie with pictures of Lincoln and Washington Hart said, that's the ugliest necktie I've ever seen in my life. So, my mother made it and he said, I apologize.
Well, that's a good beginning. Yeah, I knew pretty early I wanted to work for Hart. You remember why? He was really liberal in social issues at the time.
Unafraid to be specific or take a stand? He said Hart placed an extraordinary amount of emphasis on not just winning the campaign, but what would they do when they got in office? He commanded that attitude. So, they wrote out all these position papers on foreign policy, energy, international trade, the budget, even what would his relationship with Gorbachev be?
There was something about Hart and something about what happened on the campaign where it did feel like the kind of campaign that I haven't seen since. And when does the subject of what goes on below the belt come up, if at all? Well, there were rumors, definitely rumors. By this time, there were a lot of whispers about his personal life and a lot of speculation.
He's been married to his college sweetheart, Lee, for a very long time. They've been separated twice, along separations. During those separations, he's dated openly in Washington. So, it's a well-known fact of life in Washington where he is a central figure and has a lot of friends in the press corps that he's dated, that he's dated people for extended periods of time, that he and his wife have a troubled marriage together and not together.
He stayed on Bob Woodward's couch for a little while when she kicked him out at one point. Nobody wrote about that. The reason they didn't write about it was because of a very old, very well-established convention. I mean, look, go back to the 20th century.
Franklin Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, Dwight Eisenhower, you know, heroes, towering figures. Their personal lives simply were not in play. Take, for example, JFK. Leslie Stahl says that when the press was covering him...
...vast numbers of reporters knew that John Kennedy was cheating on his wife. That was no secret. But we wouldn't have dreamed of printing that, even if the whispers were loud enough to spread around the country. It just wasn't done.
It's the thought, hey, nobody does that, so forget about it. Or, hey, that has nothing to do with secret. I think the feeling was that, so what? You know, we all get to have a zone of privacy.
And the assumption was that what happened in your private zone behind closed doors... ...had nothing to do with whether you were going to be a good president or not. I mean, there are certain ethics and certain standards, I guess. This is the world at heart, still thinks he's living in.
As long as it doesn't burst into public view, it won't be a story. But Matt Baez says that world was actually changing because of a political earthquake that had happened just over a decade before. Talking about the Watergate, break in. ...berglurizing and bugging, democratic headquarters in Washington.
That is a big first knock-out break in that wall. People have been arrested and charged with breaking into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee. You know, arguably the biggest scandal in the White House history. You had Nixon tapping phone lines, compiling enemy lists.
And for the reporters covering Nixon. It really is an embarrassment. You had an entire White House press corps, political press corps, campaign press corps who had followed this man, Richard Nixon, for decades. And somehow, either missed the fact or failed to report the fact that he had some significant psychological issues and was paranoid and could be corrupted.
I think there was a sense that we let the public down. Leslie Stahl remembers it this way. Regular White House press reporters, they should have been digging. Chipping away, chipping away, chipping away.
They should have been looking behind the curtain. And so, right after Watergate, reporters became tougher, saying, okay, we have to be skeptical about everything. And in particular, the characters. Meaning suddenly, your makeup, your personal behavior, who you are in your private moments matters a whole hell of a lot for the kind of president you can be and whether or not we can trust you as a public leader.
Hearts' character is the subject, tonight, of our weekend journal. When Americans choose presidents, personal character traits are important. In this day and age, candidates' personal lives are getting a great deal of scrutiny. I remember there was a bit of a shift in the kinds of reporters who were covering national politics.
They had a different orientation, and they were really interested in the character question. That's Kevin Sweeney again. He says he was initially frustrated by reporters' strange obsession with things that were not really issues, important issues in the campaign. Like age?
There was some confusion about Hearts' age. The fact that he changed the family name. His signature changed at a certain point in his life. He says when those stories initially popped up, I thought it was a false set of issues.
I didn't really take it seriously. But then, when it came to the rumors of, quote, womanizing or marital infidelity, he felt like he needed to talk to Gary Hart. I did say if anything is happening, it needs to stop. I mean, this can't.
Whatever it is. I mean, he said, no, nothing is happening. And he shot back and said they have no right to cover that. That's ridiculous.
It's not an issue. Why is that an issue? That's not their job. And I kept pushing back saying, I don't actually care what their job is.
I don't care what you think their job is. This is the new context that exists now. I don't know why or how. But the rules have changed.
The rules have changed. So, you know, it was... This brings us back to Tom Feadler, the Miami Herald. He was covering Gary Hart, going with him to all the stops in Iowa, New Hampshire.
And so forth. And it seemed like at every stop along the way, someone, some reporter would raise her his hand and would say, what about the rumors of his womanizing? Tom says that he would see reporters asking all these questions and he was a little bit troubled. So, on April 27, 1987, he wrote a column asking the question.
Is it ethical for journalists to be even raising this kind of a question? I really came down to the conclusion that unless the media, unless the reporters involved, had actual proof that this was a problem, that he was a womanizer, we just shouldn't be printing that. Column runs on a Monday morning. That night.
He gets the call. The voice on the other side says, Gary Hart is having an affair with one of my best friends. He was dumbstruck, as we know. I told her that my position had to be that I couldn't believe what she had to say unless there was proof.
And finally, she said, my friend is going to fly up to Washington next weekend, and she's going to spend the weekend with Senator Hart. And she said to all you have to do is buy a ticket on that plane. And I thought, well, would that be ethically okay? What is inbound and what is out of bounds?
I mean, character was this new obsession of political journalism, but according to Matt By, no one had taken that character question into a candidate's bedroom. That was new. But if you thought, well, no, no, no, this is inbound. Because Gary Hart was publicly denying that he had been carrying on affairs with anyone.
Now, to be clear, oftentimes when Gary Hart was asked about these rumors of an affair, he was never asked directly, just about the rumors. He'd say something like this. It's no one else's business. Now, why is it not anyone else's business?
Because it isn't. No, but hasn't been the business of the American public for 200 years, and it isn't today. He'd say something like that. But Feudler says a couple of times when he's asked, he did say something that amounted to a no, such as if there was any truth to these allegations it would have come out long before.
The kinds of answers that were non-denials, another phrase that came out of Watergate. So my view at that point was if, in fact, there was proof that he was carrying on an affair privately while publicly insisting that there really was no basis to this. Then that was a relevant issue. Is it relevant to his performance as a future president?
Yes, it was a question of integrity. So we thought the only way that we are going to find out if what the caller told us is true is we've got to catch him. That's coming up next. This would be Liza, calling from Milwaukee.
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Hey, I'm Jad Aben Ron. I'm Robert Colle. This is Radio Lab. Getting back to the story, reporter Tom Feerler gets a tip saying that candidate Gary Hart is having an affair, and he thinks to himself, this is inbounds if it's true.
Therefore, we've got to catch him. So as editor tells a colleague at his gym, he's going to go to the airport telling him, this is what you're going to do. You're going to look for a woman who looks like a model. That's how the woman on the phone described her friend, she's described as a model, blonde in her mid 20s, and call me pack if you see it.
So this guy, Jim, race to the airport spots this attractive young woman fits the description. Of course, we later knew was Donna Rice. So he boards the plane, they land in DC. He follows her out of the airport into a cab.
He runs to another cab, jumps in at it, and he says, follow that cab, just like the movies in which they do. He loses it for a while, but then eventually he gets to the house where he thinks heart and display he should be. And he's not there more than a few minutes when the front door opens, and out comes the young woman on the arm of a very handsome man. One small problem.
Jim had never met Gary Hart. He had no idea what Gary Hart looked like. He said later he said, I really couldn't pick Gary Hart out of a lineup. That's when I really thought we have got to go to Washington.
And that's what they do. They're Harold. Matt Beygan. They send a team of reporters, investigative reporters, and Fiedler and photographer to Washington.
We arrived Saturday morning. They stake out his townhouse. You know, I'm thinking, my gosh, somebody will surely notice that there are four or five of us lurking as probably the right word. It's May, and one guy's in a parka to disguise himself, and Fiedler, who the candidate knows, is in a jogging suit, and he's pretending to jog around the street all day long.
I would change clothes a little bit. Occasionally I would run without the jacket. Other times I would just be wearing a t-shirt and shorts. They'd run around and around and around.
It's not how the CIA would do it, but it's about what you'd expect from a newspaper. Hart pulled on quote, stake out, went on all day into Saturday night, and it got dark. And then, front door opens, out comes this man, and out comes the blonde woman. Hart walks out with Donna Rice, sort of arm and arm.
He quickly realizes something is wrong. He kind of makes the surveillance. They see him. He sees them.
He turns her back around. They go inside. Go back inside the townhouse. He sends her away through the back door, and then he comes back out of the townhouse.
He hops in his car and starts to drive off. So our photographer starts to chase Senator Hart's car. He drives a couple blocks, up streets, down streets, back and forth. He gets out of the car, walks through a park, and he continues on foot.
He knows they're following him, and they know. He knows they're following him. He ducks around the corner, they lose him for a second, and they're running to catch up. And then they turn a corner in an alley, and there's Hart.
There is the presumed nominee of the Democratic Party, the most important Democratic politician in the country, and they're confronting each other. And for a moment, standing in the alleyway behind Hart's townhouse, they just stare at each other, because there isn't a script for this moment. Ultimately, he asked, well, who are you? Well, we're from the Miami Herald, and he didn't really say anything.
So I told him that we wanted to know why he was meeting with this woman in his townhouse, a woman who, at that point, we knew had spent the night with him. He says in myriad ways, myriad times, I'm not going to tell you who that woman was. This is private, this isn't public. But he says there's no affair, which he would maintain forever after.
And ultimately, he said, I've said enough, and he turned and walked inside and slammed the door. We did tell him, though, he said, we're going to write this story, unless you give us a reason as to that it explains as to why what we are seeing and what we're concluding is wrong, and he never did that. So we kind of look at ourselves and said, well, now what do we do? Ultimately, the call was, we have the proof we feel we needed.
We know that publicly he was saying these things, and we now know that privately he was engaged in this. So they ran back to the hotel room, and the feet were frantically typed out the story. Gary Hart, whose presidential campaign has been dogged by rumors of womanizing, comma spent Friday night and much of Saturday with a woman who came from Miami to meet him. I finally went back, and I probably slept for three or four hours.
Okay, so you're going to do the story. The only thing that gives me pause is if under this standard you'd lose Jack Kennedy, certainly. You'd lose Woodrow Wilson, I think. So you'd lose a lot of people.
You might not want to lose. But you know, you've leaped to the conclusion that the public would banish a person for that, and I don't go there. So are you worried about how it's going to land? That's everybody, sir, Jane York.
Terrified. I was terrified. And the next morning. The political world explodes.
The Democratic presidential hopeful Gary Hart. Gary Hart. Gary Hart. It truly became a fire star.
And the Miami Herald reports today that Hart quotes spent Friday night and most of Saturday. The Miami Herald reports that Hart and the Miami woman spent Friday night alone together in his Washington townhouse with a young woman. That story begins ricocheting around the country. So by Sunday, in front of by Herald reporters last night, Hart denied any impropriety.
Hart denied any impropriety. It's very apparent that not only is Hart in trouble, but the entire culture of media around politics has changed in some very dramatic way. And when you think about the mindset of the television people, the radio people, the newspaper people, is there any self-doubt there? Is there people saying, is this really a question of his ability to conduct matters of state?
Is that question being asked? There's a tremendous amount of self-doubt. Not everyone agrees that such intense public scrutiny is necessary. There was widespread feeling that Miami Herald was put on the defensive field and his colleagues had done was wrong.
You know, that's out of bounds. What business is it of the press? You staked out a guy in his home? What are they up to sneaking around in the bushes and all that?
A lot of reporters don't think it's wrong. And one reason is this. Nobody knows where this is going to lead. Has this set a precedent?
Should we have a question? Should reporters be staking out George Bush's house? Bruce Babbitt's house? Joe Biden's house?
But then in the same breath, there's generally this sense of, but you know... All he had to do basically was stay clean. What was he thinking? It's Gary Hart's fault.
And didn't he understand that things had changed? And doesn't the public maybe have a right to know? And so the newspaper that began the controversy is not backing down. This was not character assassination.
This was character suicide. He did it. We didn't. Even as the debate heats up over the ethics of its coverage of Gary Hart.
So there was a real conflict. All the various echelon of media respond to this differently. The New York Times refuses to touch it. Originally, the Washington Post is deeply conflicted.
And as for the public... In an unscientific, Carol Telephone poll, 63% of the callers said they thought the paper was making too much of a fuss over Gary Hart. I mean the polling shows that people think the media overstepped. He's still polling very strongly.
He's winning in the public mind. According to Leslie Stahl, most people seem to be willing to compartmentalize. Most people can split off. How's he going to be his president?
And you know, is he cheating on his wife? It was not clear that the tide was going to take heart out at all. So Hart and his team try to get ahead of the story. They schedule a press conference in New Hampshire.
And on the flight over, Kevin Sweeney, his press secretary, perhaps him. I remember asking Hart a question something like, Have you ever been unfaithful to your wife? And he shot back at me with anger. He said, I don't have to answer that question.
That's a question that I can answer to God to my wife. It's not a question that I need to answer in politics. That's a dangerous question to be asking. We don't want to go there.
And I just said, that's a great answer. Just hold that anger. That's an appropriate response. Senator Hart, please.
We get to the press conference. Hart and Sweeney walk into this colonial-style room at Dartmouth College. Senator Hart is a new poller. There are lights everywhere.
The room is filled sweaty. It's hot. There's more media than anyone's ever seen in the fact. It's a really intense environment.
Senator Hart has very little buffer. And he's handling the questions. How are you going to convince him that you're not going to make this kind of a mistake and judgement about personal behavior again? Really pretty brilliantly.
I won't tell him I'll demonstrate. Time goes on. People are going to want to know what your judgement is for the character on the issues, their lives, their family, their nation. That's what this campaign is going to be about.
He's kind of firing on all cylinders. And Hart goes through, you know, 30 minutes, 40 minutes of questions. And then he raised in your remarks yesterday. You raised the issue of morality and you raised the issue of proof on it.
At some point he calls on the younger poor named Paul Taylor. Very specific. And Paul Taylor walks him through a series of questions. You said you did nothing tomorrow.
Did you mean that you got no sexual relationship with Donna Rice plans to make another time you were a manager? You believe that adultery is tomorrow? Yes. Have you ever committed adultery?
Have you ever committed adultery? Senator Hart looked out at the sea of reporters. No politician. I'd never publicly been asked that.
Broad, direct a question about his personal behavior. It really just shocked the room. We don't know what Gary Hart was thinking about when he did not want to be interviewed on tape. But it's clear that if he said yes or no to that broad of a question that his entire married life, because have you ever committed adultery?
That word ever, his entire married life would suddenly be in play. And as far as we know, no other person in his situation in history had ever been asked to drag that much of themselves into the limelight. And on his face you can see that he knows that this is never going to end. I mean he knew how many women he'd seen over the years.
He could envision them all being paraded through the papers. He could tell already that there was all this new sort of tabloid press and that the political press was following along that he was never going to be able to talk about his agenda. And Hart stumbled around for a minute and ultimately he says, I don't have to answer that question. When I heard that response, I felt it.
I felt it. The tone was such that it felt like defeat. It felt like he is exhausted and he can't take this. And I was offended.
I really in that moment thought this is just wrong. This has nothing to do with what is necessary to run this country. And I just thought this is not, we're not going to survive. And that moment effectively does him in.
No, I'm sorry. I told you the facts. You don't believe me. There's nothing I can do about it.
It's just never going to work. Gary Hart has finished as a presidential candidate. Gary Hart's formal campaign is only three weeks old. There was simply no putting the genie back in the bottle.
His appearances yesterday were mob zones. His heart campaign has been hammered through its knees asking the same questions again and again. Today after what may be remembered is the most disastrous week any presidential candidates endured in years. Hart told an aide, let's go home.
Couple weeks later that famous image of Gary Hart and Donna Rice comes out in the National Enquire. And that was that. For people my age like that image of Donna Rice sitting in his lap and he's got the shirt on that says monkey business. That's the thing you remember.
Now according to Matt By, you can look at this whole story, particularly Tom Feebler taking that call, Paul Taylor asking that question. As this moment when all these forces way outside of Gary Hart's control come together not just to sink his campaign but to change political journalism profoundly. But as with all cultural shifts, there's more than one way to look at this. So just for a gut check, we put the whole story.
We're talking about Tom Feebler? Yeah, Tom. Fun of this lady. Can we have you introduce yourself?
I'm Koki Roberts. No, you are like part two. I have six grandchildren. No, no, no, no.
Something NPR-y. I'm a political commentator and author. Okay. Koki Roberts believes that, yeah, reporters were interested in character more after Watergate.
But it wasn't just that. The thing that's important to keep in mind here is that there were many more women covering candidates at that point than there had been before. There were women on the bus. And in the case of Gary Hart, several of those women had had personal encounters with him.
There were times when you'd be in a room where he had hit on every woman in the room. So this was not somebody that women who were covering campaigns were ignorant of. And the other thing to keep in mind, Robert, is that the whole women's movement did talk quite a bit about the personal is political. And because the way women were treated was something that we thought and I continue to think is a good gauge of character.
And there was something of a sense that he treated women like Kleenex. So we were expanding the universe of what was a major character flaw. So then are you kind of rooting Feebler on? Finally somebody's written about it and thank God it's a guy.
But as much as you were cheering them on, was there any concern that that was changing the rules of journalism? No. Why? Because the rules of journalism were constantly changing, as they should.
And according to Koki Roberts, this was less about journalism changing than about journalism catching up with the ethics of the time. Look, we elect our presidents based on who they are, not on what policies they stand for. It's different from any other office. The voters need to know as much as they can humanly know about that person.
So is there a line for you? Is there a place you won't go in taking the full measure of a candidate? Not for president that I can think of. There's nothing you wouldn't touch.
No. I mean I'd have to know that it was true. Sure. But no.
No. I love that. Leslie Still had a slightly different take. She's fabulous Koki Roberts.
I didn't go there. That's interesting. I just didn't want to ask about it. I didn't want to go there.
Excuse me. I'm telling you this. Even though I covered Watergate and would have asked any number of questions about character. You know, it's open season fellas.
The public needs to know this. But you know, sex is really a hard place for me to pry. So I agree with it, but I also have my own opinion that there's propriety. And I'm old fashioned, I guess.
Am I? I don't know. I intended quite frankly to come down here this morning and read a short carefully worded political statement. This is Gary Hart's statement, if you'd be after that president.
Saying that I was withdrawing from the race and then quietly disappear from the stage. And then after frankly causing internal night, I said to myself, hell no. I'm not going to do that because it's not my style and because I'm a proud man and I'm proud of what I've accomplished. In public life, some things may be interesting, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're important.
We're all going to have to seriously question the system for selecting our national leaders. That reduces the press of this nation to hunters and presidential candidates to being hunted. Politics in this country take it from me. It's on the verge of becoming another form of athletic competition or sporting match.
We all better do something to make this system work. We're all going to be soon rephrasing Jefferson to say, I tremble for my country. When I think we may in fact get the kind of leaders we deserve. Now we did reach out to Mr.
Hart for a comment explaining to him the story we were doing and he wrote back this response. Thank you for your letter and the invitation to participate in your current story. Though I did not become president, my life continues to be extraordinarily rich. Perhaps some day someone will tell that story.
But for now, I have no interest in revisiting what many consider a turning point for the nation and a few in injustice. I do believe that the full and accurate story of that event remains to be told. Signed, Gary Hart. Very special thanks to Jamie York, our Jamie York and to Joe Trippie.
And to Matt By, you can find a link to Matt By's book All the Truth Is Out that Week Politics went tabloid on our website, Radio Lab. This piece was produced by Simon Adler and I guess that's pretty much it. Next podcast will be exploring these issues in a totally different context. I'm Chad Abum-Ron.
I'm Robert Kroll, which, and we approved this message. Hi, this is Leith Leastol. Hey, this is Matt By. I am reading the credit.
For the Radio Lab show on Gary Hart. Here we go. Message 1, Radio Lab is produced by Chad Abum-Rad. I'm going to do it again because I don't think I did Abum-Rad.
Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrell, David Gabel, Dylan Keith. Matt Keelty, Robert Krollich, Andy Mills. Love Teeth Nasser. Kelsey Padgett.
Ariane Wack. Molly Webster, Soreneweeler, and Jamie York. With help from Alexander Lee Young. Abigail Keel.
Tracy Hunt. Stephanie Tam. And Michael Lowinger, a fact checker, Eva Dasher, and Michelle Harris. Thanks guys.
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