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Go to hardhidewhiskies.com. That's hardhidewhiskies.com. All right, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Saints Happy Hour Podcast. It's a little delayed instant reaction. I'm back from my flight from New Orleans.
It was not good. As always, we are sponsored by Hard High Punch Tool of Strawberry Whiskey and Chilton County Peach Whiskey voted Bev Tess Best Flavored Whiskey of 2025. I got Andrew Juge with me. Andrew, I was just talking to Thomas. My son was over the moon. The Saints had scored. They were up 27 to 16. They were playing Pump the Pump the Party, which is his new favorite Saints related song. And we were dancing. It was awesome. And then the Saints had a fourth quarter. I'll just say, I can't remember the Saints ever having as horrible a fourth quarter as that.
Four straight turnovers to end. It's as bad as I've ever seen it. It was truly disgusting. I mean, honestly, it felt like the first half of the Lions game. We were just averaging the ball. So now I feel like we've had maybe a quarter, two quarters and a half of the offense just giving the ball away, right? And yeah, I mean, I know that the officiating is going to come into it again, and rightfully so. I think the officiating was awful, so no one's disputing that. But I don't know. I mean, look, it's hard.
After a while to not feel like the saints are getting jobbed, right? Like where, where the league has some agenda against the saints. But if I, if I'm pulling myself back and out of that and not being conspiracy theorists and certainly the no call is as a great, I mean, I'll maintain forever that that's the worst call ever, but I just feel like everyone every week is getting jobs. Like this isn't a unique saints plight. Like every game that I watch, there's a questionable call. I, to me, it's the NFL's biggest issue. Three straight weeks. We got the letter three straight weeks. The saints after the pool official. So keep going. What do you mean? What does that mean?
After the game, the official comes out and he talks to a reporter and he has to explain some bullshit call. That's three weeks in a row. That's three weeks in a row. But honestly, like I want to be consistent as a fan here. Like Tyler Shuck fumbled. I also think golf fumbled. And look, I saw Jason Champagne's comments about the rule and how it's interpreted. And and, you know, maybe they are different. I'm just telling you in real time, when you watch those two plays, they look the exact same. If anything, to me, it's more clear that Shuck starts his throwing motion than it was golf. Now, the difference is when you see golf get hit.
he is literally flicking his wrist and the ball's going backwards. Whereas Shuck, like the ball kind of gets dislodged before he flicks his wrist. So if that's a distinction you're going to make, and yes, I think you can slow-mo it, right? And you can look at both and make a distinction there to kind of like say, well, this is the rule and this is why this one falls on one side. But like, I think it loses, like we all get lost, like trying to follow that because it's ridiculous. And again, if you look at both of those plays, to me, I'm not that hot and bothered about.
the call against Chuck because, I mean, I think it's totally fair for Saints fans to lose their minds over inconsistencies. But, like, to me, Goff and Chuck both fumbled. I don't care what the rule is. Those are both fumbles. So, to me, the inconsistency is the problem. But, like, Chuck fumbled. And Nick Underhill even wrote a thing going into the game about how, like, that's kind of the Raiders' defense's deal. They're, like, constantly hunting for the football. And, you know, like, those four turnovers you're talking about, it doesn't even take into account that Kendra Miller fumbled out of bounds, like, within that sequence.
And Shuck had a fumble lost that didn't count because of a bogus call on illegal contact against Trey Lance. So, like, it could have been even worse, right? So, I mean, it was just like a complete hemorrhaging of the football, a complete implosion by the Saints. And, I mean, it's easy to, like, blame it on the refs. But to me, like, I think the Saints just completely imploded at the end of that game. And so, yeah, you know, it's disappointing. I think the thing that was most frustrating to me within the collapse is...
And it's almost like nothing you can do about it is because there was a moment right before they scored the second touchdown where they were running the ball and A-Chan ripped off one run and then he ripped off another run. And it looked exactly, Andrew, the offense looked exactly like the Saints and us as fans dreamed it would look on day one of free agency where within like 45 minutes, they signed A-Chan and they signed David Edwards. They were like, this is it. This is the offense. It's here. It's here. And A-Chan's hamstring literally exploded.
And he's grabbing it before he's out of bounds. The Raiders dude hit him. And I don't know how long he's going to be out, but it's going to be a while. And suddenly you're running backs. You're back to complete ass. Like you were last year. And I mean, there's nothing you could do about it, but it's just now you feel to me, you feel the weight of everything of like, you're back to Tyler shock, having to be amazing. Or this offense isn't going to go. And.
So that's part of it. But the other part of it is like Kellen Moore and a couple of those second and third and shorts. It's like, man, if you if you're going to run the ball, run Donaldson. Why are we burning? Why are we burning Camara up the middle on short yardage? Like, what is that? But as far as the offense going forward, we'll get to the defense. But as far as the offense going forward, do you have the concerns that I have?
I have concerns about all parts of the team. I mean, from top to bottom. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Look, I think so far with Tyler Shuck, and I wrote this in my player grade. So, you know, if you read that, you'll see it. But to me so far, Tyler Shuck has been, and I mean this both in a good way and a bad way. It's been the full Jameis experience. I'm talking peak Jameis, not Jameis now. Maybe not even Jameis when he was with the Saints. I'm talking peak Jameis. But it's like he's putting up these monster stat lines. When he's good, it's elite. It's like as good as any other quarterback out there.
But in two games now, he's hemorrhaged the football, and the Saints are one and two. And I give Tyler Shuck a ton of grace because he's new. He's learning. I think he's a lot smarter than Jameis Winston. Yeah, I just think he's got a good football IQ. I think Jameis Winston has kind of never divorced himself from this mentality of, well, I'm just going to let it rip, and I'm going to gunsling. And even when he became game manager with –
with Sean Payton, it felt like it took like every fiber of his being to stay focused and not do what he really wanted to do. Yeah, and Sean, it took every fiber of his being and every fiber of Sean Payton's being to keep him on the tracks. Right, right. Whereas like I think Shuck is doing, you know, and it's not to say that I don't think Jameis Winston is a hard worker. I think he is, but I just feel like there is a level of sophistication that Shuck brings. And frankly, that Spencer Rattler brings, I think he brings it too. I think this quarterback room in general is much more serious in approach, much more methodical, much more process oriented. And I appreciate that both about Spencer.
rattler and shuck obviously the difference is physically i just think shuck is a lot more gifted but but the point i'm trying to make here is i just feel like that's why the Saints are 1-2. We can blame referees all we want, and the Saints are very close to being 3-0. And to me, the difference is when you have a quarterback that plays this well but also protects the football, you're 3-0. And when you have a quarterback that plays this way but in two of the three games has had a bunch of turnovers, you're 1-2. And that's what that boils down to to me. And so, you know, we can blame the refs if we want, but to me, it's like that's got to be part of – and like I said, Chuck gets a ton of grace here, but, like, that's got to be part of his evolution is learning what gets you beat. And, you know, at the end of this game, like, you know, obviously not having banks is a big part of it too. Yeah, and I just think – and final thought on the offense, look.
They were the Raiders. They hunted big plays and credit to them. They created it. They created a bunch and they got the Saints like on that fourth down play. They tricked them and the Saints were trying to run a rub route and the Raiders had guys. I noticed it like different depths. So you can't do the little rub route and the Raiders got him. Like you said, they hunt. They hunt turnovers. The thing is the final thought on this on this offense is listen, they've got Tyler Shuck has got to figure out how to get rid of the ball sooner and take less hits and.
if he does it, and I think he will, but this offense, they struggle. They struggle at times, to me, to be consistent down-to-down, but in this game, they were, and that's the thing that was most frustrating. I never felt... even in those moments where the Raiders started to get him. The main thing I felt from this offense, Andrew, was I felt for the first time that Chuck was shook. Like he got hit. The Raiders had tricked him a couple of times. Like for the first time, he was kind of becoming, he was checking it down at the end and he was a little bit gun shy. I don't think it will last, but I just think my worry, I guess, is if you hit a quarterback enough, any quarterback, they'll get fried. We saw the Saints do it to Tom Brady on a Sunday night when C.D. Deuce was taunting him. If you hit a quarterback enough, you can fry their computer system, right? My concern with Chuck is...
He's a young quarterback. If you hit these young quarterbacks enough, I'm worried the bad habits might settle in. That's my biggest concern. If you get that cleaned up, I'll feel fine about it. Chuck is going to be fine. At least at this stage, I have zero worries. In terms of his development.
a year or two down the road and we're still below 500 and we're losing a lot of games in the same manner, then he's not learning, right? And so then, like IMC, like, look, the alternative, right, is what we saw last year with Rattler, where he's protecting the football, he's not making any mistakes, and he's checking it down every time. And that is a much less exciting brand of football and he's scoring a lot less points, right, than when, so I'm willing to accept a level of risk and a level of mistakes right now to see my team scoring 27, 30 points. throwing for over 300 yards, four passing touchdowns, actually cashing in in the red zone. So, I mean, there's a lot to be excited about, right? Like, Delp hasn't even really been used in the passing game, but, like, he's a tight end I'm excited about. But, like, Noah Fann and Juwan Johnson are killing it, especially in the red zone and Vele. And, you know, the thing that's just so frustrating about this game is there's so many plays that you can point back to. And, yeah, if that just happens, the Saints win. It's like the deep ball of Vele. If either pass interference is called because he does get his bicep kind of pulled back there, or if he just catches it anyway, that's probably enough to win the game, right? Like, if itch doesn't pop, it's hammy.
that's probably enough to win the game. Like there, there were multiple moments in this game. Like if they just fall on that fumble, like Jawan Johnson deserves a shout out on that play. My God, man, like his effort level, chasing down the runner, push it, punching the ball out. Like that was an absolute insane effort play. One of the best I've ever seen. Like that's on par with my Malcolm or Malcolm Jenkins running down Vincent Jackson at the one yard line. I don't remember. But like insane effort punches the ball out. And like, if the saints just fall on that ball, maybe they win the game. You know? So like there were just so many moments where I felt like if it just plays out a little differently, maybe, maybe the result is different. And so it's just.
That game was very frustrating. I remain very confident in Shuck. I just think his development's going to continue. It was nice to see them start the game, right? Like they didn't play 60 minutes. And actually it was kind of like bizarro Kellen Moore because they imploded in the fourth quarter and they were good leading up to it. So I don't know what to do with that. It's like they basically went opposite day. So maybe now in this next one we can put 60 minutes together. But yeah, look, I think the biggest concerns I have moving forward are...
There's nothing you can do about the injuries. That's part of football. You're going to get injured. I mean, look, look at how many quarterbacks have gone down in the first three weeks. The fact that Shuck is healthy is a win when you consider what's happening to other teams. But at the same time, yeah, personnel-wise, I just don't think this defense is very good. I don't think they have pass rushers. I don't necessarily like, yeah, they have cover guys that are decent. But the second you put an elite guy like Bowers out there, they had no answer.
No, and that's what I wanted to talk about before we get out of here real quick is the defense. I don't think, you know, people were like, oh, the defense last year was a fraud. I don't think the defense last year was a fraud. I think the defense last year, when they play bad quarterbacks and they play bad offenses, Staley is a really good coordinator. But this defense, Andrew, it reminds me of the 2023 Dennis Allen defense where that defense was kind of aging out and they needed DA to have a really good plan and cook up like schematically and a couple of card tricks, right?
or they could get gashed. And I think that's what Staley, like last week against the Ravens, he cooked up the double blitzes with Caden Ellis and Pete Werner and he got Lamar, right? And they cooked up some stuff late and it worked. But if they don't, if Staley isn't throwing fastballs, this defense besides Chase Young, it doesn't have any dudes that can like make it happen. And they cannot get, like they can't get home with four. Like for four fucking get about it. And I just think, you know, they're going to like, again, we'll see about Penix in the next couple of games, but they're going to struggle when they play good quarterbacks. The good thing is they don't play too many of them. But I just think this defense is really limited.
They did stop the run pretty good against the Raiders, except for a couple of – I thought, you know, Broughton and Boyd and Gottschall, like I actually thought they had a pretty good game against the run. So that was encouraging. You know, Bowers just – I mean, Bowers won the – He just caught another pass. Yeah, I mean, he won them the game. He ate the sinks alive, and that's what allowed the Raiders to move the chains on third down and continue to move the ball. And, you know, Cousins just kept going to him over and over. But, you know –
Yeah, I mean, I think your point is well taken. When the Saints have to match up against a team that's been injured and doesn't have great personnel, then I think maybe they have a bit of a coaching advantage if it's just an even playing field. But the second that they have to deal with something elite, whether it's Jamar Gibbs running the football or Bowers, to me, I think they have no answer against elite talent. And so I think that's just the reality of where they're at right now. They're going to have to do a good job. You know, losing Garcia is tough, right? On third down, they're just not getting the interior pass rush without him. So, you know, that's part of the deal.
We'll see what happens. My big takeaway is specific to Kellen Moore. I crushed him, and we posted that. I crushed him last week. A lot of fans were really mad at me on Facebook and made a lot of comments about Moore. You know what? I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. It was good to see the Saints in the first half move the football, produce some points, and be in the game after the first half. To me, at least...
The narrative changed for at least one week, and hopefully they can build off that and have good game plans coming in. But I can't help but think from a coaching perspective, and I'm not calling for his head. I'm not saying it's time to change. I'm still waiting to see. But to me, it's different than Shuck. With Shuck, I'm all in. I see clearly that he has the potential to be really, really great. He just has to cut back on some of the mistakes he's making. But he can get there, and I feel confident. I still have major reservations about Moore, and I'm not saying I'm out on him. But when I look at how this game was played, part of it is Cousins.
executing the offense. And he's a veteran. He's been around the league forever. And he's, he's already seen everything. He's going to see pre-snap. Nothing's going to catch him off guard. So he's not as good as breeze by any stretch of the imagination. But if you think about ladder stages, breeze and how he was able to navigate his pop arm and kind of just like, you know, run this like slow bleed offense. I felt like cousins was kind of doing that masterfully. Right. And that's sometimes that's what you get with a veteran quarterback. It's just seen it all knows what he's doing. So, but to me, it just felt like Kubiak and the way that this team was organized. It just felt more buttoned up than the saints.
And I'll say this, and we'll get into it on the live stream Tuesday and as the week goes along. So let's be completely honest. None of the Saints' losses last year, we didn't really give a shit. Like, we cared about the Atlanta loss, and we got Blake Groupie up out of there, but that's just because it was Atlanta. Like, we didn't care. Like, none of them really hurt, right? You're just like, ah, Saints lost. Okay, whatever. Even the Shuck losses, you're like, okay, whatever. We're going to hire a draft pick. This is the first time I think, Kellen Moore, like, you're early in the year. You have expectations of competing in the division. You were winning by 11, and you blew it. Kellen Moore, can you get this group back up and ready for a Monday night game? I said this on the big show, and I'm going to say it again.
And I kind of called the Raiders a must win. And that was probably hyperbolic because I'm already back paddling on that because they lost. I would have said it was must win if they won. But now that I got to convince myself that it's not as big of a deal now that they've lost. But, you know, I've always said this, like losing to an AFC team is like not the end of the world. And the Saints are tied for first place. I mean, how ridiculous is that? Like they're one and two. So that loss wasn't as expensive as I pretended beforehand it would be. But I do think this Falcons game is a must win because now you're going into a game where you can be in first place.
or you're basically down two games because you don't have the tiebreaker and you lost NFC. So to me, this one is way more important. And I do feel like the Saints, like Kellen Moore now, like this is like of his young coaching career. This is the Super Bowl of right now. Like he's coached. This one's the most important, partially because it's the Falcons. But also like the Saints as a team, like they got to decide. Are they just this one in three team? That's kind of exciting, but doesn't have a ton of talent. Turns the ball over. Yeah, they're fun. They're much more fun than last year. No doubt about that. They kind of have this up and coming quarterback. Maybe you'll figure it out. Like, is that your team or?
Are you like, no, we're the favorites to win the division? Because Baker Mayfield's out, and the Panthers are the Panthers, and we just beat the Falcons. Like, that's the message on Monday night that gets sent. So, like, losing to the Raiders is a bummer. This team could easily be 3-0 right now, so that's a bummer. But, like, to me, this is a dividing line. You've got to decide. You're either the team that's, like, winning the division, and you're making that statement on Monday night while everyone's watching, or you're the same old Saints and, you know, like, maybe we'll get a good traffic. You're going to go 7-10, and you're going to be everybody's favorite Sunday ticket watch. That's not their team.
Because you're the Saints, and every game comes down to the last moment. And Tyler Shuck, he might throw for 400 and three touchdowns and two picks and a fumble. And the Saints are really cool. They play a lot of one-score games. But in the end, they're 7-10 and picking ninth. Or are you serious? I just think Kellen Moore is coaching tenure. And I think this is for everyone's visibility because it's a Monday night game. But I think for the national media, I think internally with the fans, I think belief inside his own building, to me, he's got to empty the cliff here. If there was ever a time where Kellen Moore was going to show, I'm an offensive genius.
I came up with a creative game plan. I pants my opponent. If he was ever going to do that, Ralph, this has to be the game. Yeah. Kellen, you pants Atlanta on Monday night. You could buy yourself like at least a month of like goodwill, like to say. So anyway, guys, thanks for joining us. If you like what you heard, you got the, we gave the full podcast to everybody, including the patrons extra. Go to patreon.com slash things. Happy hour, become a patron, support the show. It's amazing. We need your support and you need more Saints content because we got a long season to go. Thanks to Andrew. Thanks to Thomas running the show back. I'm Ralph. I'm tired. I had to get up at 5 a.m. to catch flight.
We will see you Tuesday night on the live screen. Until then, the bar is closed.