Interview with Hathaway Jane

Welcome back to the Gnostic Reformation on Substack. Today’s episode is an interview with one of your fellow listeners to Gnostic Insights and the Gnostic Reformation on Substack. Her name is Hathaway Jane. Hathaway wrote to me saying how much the Gnostic Insights episodes have meant to her. She’s also purchased and read A Simple Explanation of Absolutely Everything and A Simple Explanation of the Gnostic Gospel of the Tripartite Tractate, and she has some very kind words to say about how meaningful they have been to her. She said she’d like to talk to me on the phone and I suggested that we go ahead and do it as a public interview so that we can share her growth and her path with everyone else here. Hathaway has studied Jungian analysis independently for many years now. For the past 15 years, she’s studied Carl Jung’s writing, particularly the Red Book and the Black Book, and then all of the other books that Jung wrote, as she says in the interview. And I find this remarkable because Jung is not easy to read, and Hathaway did this with a high school education at the time. She’s now attending university and she is in her last year of college studies. After she graduates from the university she wants to attend the Pacifica Graduate Institute in order to become a Jungian analyst. She studied Carl Jung independently through the Center for Applied Jungian Studies, which you can find on the Internet, and she’s also part of the Philemon Foundation. So let’s hear Hathaway’s journey. Cyd: Hey, Hathaway. Hathaway: Yes, how are you? Cyd: I’m just fine this morning. How are you? Hathaway: I’m good. Cyd: It’s so nice to hear your voice. Welcome to the program. Thank you so much for being here. Hathaway: Oh, no problem. I think your book is incredible. I’m not kidding. I mean, I have told you in my life I lived through my ego self 100% and I definitely had different personas that I put on for my family, so-called friends, people I thought were my friends. And it’s strange because I think I told you from 16 to about 29 I was an addict. And every day I wake up and I feel so incredibly blessed, just because, seriously, I mean, I know how hard it is. I know that. I honestly I shouldn’t be here—like there were a few times that came real close to not being here. And, my life was such a crazy mess, I can’t even explain. I got sober and I still was just in something inside me. Just was like this child that—this is what I’ve always felt this way—I’ve always felt like off. I don’t know to explain it really. Like I wasn’t like the other kids. I was an only child and spent a lot of time alone, and just went through some experiences that I would never wish upon anybody. And I made it out and I see so many people who don’t. I mean, right now our country is in the middle of an opiate crisis, which nobody talks about. And it’s just like, what is going on here? And I honestly do believe that everything that’s going on here is a spiritual matter. And so I started with Carl Jung. And I don’t know if you know a lot about Jung, but Carl Jung, his whole life—he started writing the Red Book, and this was his own personal notes and all these beautiful mandalas that he drew. And then he built himself like little—it wasn’t that little, but it’s quite big. It’s at Bollingen. They called the Little Castle. And this castle, it’s so symbolic. He built it because of his dream. Because one day Jung said to himself, I’m 40 years old. He’s like, what is this? I don’t want to go to cocktail parties. This is stupid. He’s like, I have everything I need. I have more money than I could ever want. I’m successful. I’ve known. He’s like, this isn’t life. There has to be something beyond this. And he started asking himself, do I know my soul? And he went through this whole transformation where he literally was, like, begging his soul to speak to him. And his soul did in his dreams. Now I don’t have dreams like that. So Jung has another way of doing it, which is called active imagination. I do mine through a learnt meditation, where I go to a trance level. But, after reading the Red Book I got very involved in CAJS—which the Center for Applied Jungian Studies. And my first teacher was a man by the name of Shane Eynon. He’s a psychoanalyst. He’s incredible. Like, I was so blessed. And for the first time in my life, I was just, like, it just, it really did, it smacked me in the face. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And then I was like, Oh my gosh! Because then I thought, I am out here racking up credit card debt to buy stuff I don’t need. Like, I am living in this illusion, and that’s a very weird thing to experience. Cyd: Now, how long after you had become sober did you discover the Jungians? Hathaway: Probably about 10 years after I’d been sober. And, during those 10 years, I wasn’t a nice person. I judged people—the friends I hung out with. It was just like there was this narrative and nobody knew any different. And so we just all followed this narrative. And I grew up in a very small town. So all those 10 years, I always felt there has to be something more than this. Like, this can’t be life. I have to grow old talking about this kind of stuff. And doing the same thing every weekend. I mean, don’t get me wrong—if that’s what you love to do, go do it. But it just wasn’t for me. And I picked up Thus Spoke Zarathustra by Nietzsche. And Nietzsche, he mentioned Jung and some further reading. And I was like, who’s Jung? And so, I like Jung. And I was reading about this man. And I’m like, oh, my gosh, this man thinks like I do. And I bought the Red Book, the Black Book, and every book Jung ever wrote. And that’s all of them. Cyd: So, right off the bat, you jumped straight into Jung. Wow. Because, you didn’t go to college, right? Hathaway: I didn’t. No, not at that time. I have three years of college now; I only have one year left. And this is why—I think you called it synchronicity. And it definitely applies at that time to your book. Because I just was like, oh, my gosh! When I read your book, I immediately called my husband and I was like, Steven, I don’t think you understand how important this book is, I said to him. And he cannot get enough of it. He is just, like, blown away. Cyd: Well, well, that that’s really great to hear. Hathaway: I mean really, Cyd, how? I don’t know how you did it. I mean, I feel like God went right through you and just let you write away. Cyd: Well, I kind of think that’s how it happens because 15 or 20 years ago, when I discovered my theory of everything, which is the Simple Explanation of Absolutely Everything, that’s the secular version, that’s the sciency mathy version. And then, it was like 15 years after that, I discovered the gnostic, the Nag Hammadi, and the Tripartite Tractate. And I already had my superstructure in my mind, really firmly by that time. The Simple Explanation is a really nice frame to interpret just everything. That’s why it’s called: of Absolutely Everything. And by the way, when I wrote the Simple Explanation, I didn’t sit down to write it. Now, I don’t necessarily believe in channeling and that kind of thing, but what I sat down to write was a play based upon my dissertation, which is the trial of the California midwife. And instead of writing the California midwife play, boom, here come the principles from the Simple Explanation. I wrote the Simple Explanation in about two days, so obviously it was led by God. Hathaway: That is all amazing. That is so amazing. And that’s when I picked up your book. I was like, you know, the Red Book is basically another version of your book. But it’s very, very difficult. Jung did this on purpose because you gotta remember back when—he was born in 1875. So back in that time, his biggest fear was being called a mystic. Yeah, I mean, it would have destroyed him. People back then had a very different mindset. And, you know, Jung’s Red Book… This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit cydropp.substack.com/subscribe