Interviewing for Incident Analysis w/special guest John Allspaw

The new website is live! thisisfinepod.comYou can find John Allspaw at Adaptive Capacity Labs: https://www.adaptivecapacitylabs.comMike McGill, the skateboarder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McGillAnnie Duke’s Thinking in Bets, referenced by our question-asker is a great one: https://bookshop.org/p/books/thinking-in-bets-making-smarter-decisions-when-you-don-t-have-all-the-facts-annie-duke/31466984521c3d8a?ean=9780735216372&next=tNaturalistic Decision Making has its own association, which has a ton of resources (and a conference!) - https://naturalisticdecisionmaking.org/They also have a podcast! https://naturalisticdecisionmaking.org/new-podcast/Gary Klein is the NDM guy - https://bookshop.org/p/books/seeing-what-others-don-t-the-remarkable-ways-we-gain-insights-chief-scientist-gary-klein/c4ae5e017fe005ff?ean=9781610393829&next=tWe contrast him and his style of approaching cognition and decision making with Kahneman and Tversky.Kahneman and Tversky wrote a lot, but Judgement Under Uncertainty is probably the most famous? https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.185.4157.1124And Kahneman wrote Thinking Fast and Slow: https://bookshop.org/p/books/thinking-fast-and-slow-daniel-kahneman-phd/83a544fe6f98df87?ean=9780606275644&next=tIt has been zero episodes since we’ve mentioned Lisanne Bainbridge’s Ironies of Automation: https://ckrybus.com/static/papers/Bainbridge_1983_Automatica.pdfBut also she has Verbal Reports as evidence of the process operator’s knowledge: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1071581979603075?via%3DihubAnd the Etsy Debriefing Guide is super great: https://extfiles.etsy.com/DebriefingFacilitationGuide.pdfSidney Dekker and The Field Guide are foundational: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-field-guide-to-understanding-human-error-sidney-dekker/3a4209dfc8b3a721?ean=9781472439055&next=tFrom Dekker’s field guide (pg 47) there is a list referencing Gary Klein’s questions for an incident investigation:Cues: What were you seeing?What were you focusing on?What were you expecting to happen?Interpretation: If you had to describe the situation to your colleague at that point, what would you have told?Errors: What mistakes (for example in interpretation) were likely at this point?Previous experience/knowledge:Were you reminded of any previous experience?Did this situation fit a standard scenario?Were you trained to deal with this situation?Were there any rules that applied clearly here?Did any other sources of knowledge suggest what to do?Goals:What were you trying to achieve?Were there multiple goals at the same time?Was there time pressure or other limitations on what you could do?Taking action:How did you judge you could influence the course of events?Did you discuss or mentally imagine a number of options or did you know straight away what to do?Outcome:Did the outcome fit your expectation?Did you have to update your assessment of the situation?John mentioned Uptime Labs, who do staged worlds for software incidents: https://uptimelabs.io/Facets of Complexity in Situated Work is here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/345523195_Facets_of_Complexity_in_Situated_WorkOn the Jamie Zawinski quote: https://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247If you don’t know the parable of the blind men and the elephant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant