your husband had told me you were the most beautiful podcast you've ever met i didn't expect the most beautiful podcast i've ever met it's a great line it is i don't have a good clue uh if you do he's one of the least impersonated movie stars of that size i would say he's got a thing i've seen people do it and you're like this is let's get right into the deep end here i believe you kind of can't be a great movie star without being someone that someone can impersonate you need to be distinctive enough that there is an ability to impersonate you in a specific way i've seen people do it but very few you need to have like a hook that someone can hang on to fascinate me but i can't i can't do you know how to do the head toes well it's very grovely in this yeah yeah the down but then in this he's doing the cohen's the cohen's get him work in his neck unlike anyone else and teeth obviously that's a whole separate thing yeah i think this is yeah i mean i guess what's your favorite clini cohen's performance oh he's done four yeah okay uh a brother this one for an after reading i skipped one oh thank you his trilogy which is now four films i my default answer is burn after reading which i think he's unreal good in when i'm watching this i go how could it be anything but this he's unbelievable and there's so much on his shoulders yes even more than a brother where it's like he's amazing a brother but so much going on like i didn't rewatch that one before this i didn't watch burn after reading and burn after reading is like it's an ensemble way more than this is like this is just a really two-handed but really kind of one yeah he's yeah he's the best he's unbelievable he's a nominee for me this year yeah yeah it's an amazing and this is the year after oceans 11 two years and before oceans 12 which happens this is the thing we talked about in this podcast that i found really interesting i remember very distinctly kathleen jones wins best supporting actress for chicago in 2002 i do remember that her three immediate follow-up films are intolerable cruelty directed by the cohen brothers ocean 12 directed by steven soderbergh and the terminal directed by steven spielberg and upon the release of oceans 12 which i think is the third that's the last i think uh yeah she fires all of her reps her career is over basically no no not basically you can draw that doesn't matter that's already happened the follow-up to the run he just said the immediate follow-up is legend of zorro no reservations death defying acts then two years later the rebound it's on the shelf it's over whether not the sense that she's like i'm gonna get kids i'm gonna just peace no i think everyone was like she she stinks it up in all three of those movies sorry that was sort of the perception at the time it was a little bit what happened to helen hunt post oscar it was a take her oscar away run right but it's also that she made movies with exclusively incredible filmmakers movies that are basically well the terminal's not good but are basically all pretty good but among the least regarded of all of their movies yes i mean obviously we all love oceans 12 has now been reclaimed we're gonna start the drumbeat here i think the drumbeat was started oh yeah oh i see yes which has not happened but maybe today and then terminal i feel like is the furthest off oh some will defend it people stick out for it i don't i do think she's not one of the better parts of it though like no but that's a perfect example of that part sucks it is basically designed to make the audience hate whoever's occupying that role get away from me i'm sick do we think that katherine jones arrival is gonna happen after naked gun has a great joke about her which is fresh as we are having this conversation uh in my day the only things that were electric were eels and katherine jones in chicago it's a great joke right i mean it's electric guitar but i feel like he says three things it might be a guitar and then the third thing is so worried part of the max the other is that they give leo neeson three cents to say quickly that's what they do that joke so many times it's always always hits just leo neeson saying a long thing getting two works up about something yes from early 2000s pop culture you're like why is this guy so hung up on the pop culture from when he was 50 but i don't look i think that the katherine zeta jones comeback in quotes happened in that she is back and is on netflix's hit show wednesday and did a national treasure show she's around there is no chance there's a post-oscar run there's the one you just said that's like big drop-off then she disappears for a couple years then there's like the 2013 sort of attempted comeback she's in six movies in two years it's late 12 months right it's a playing for keeps rock of ages side effects uh uh what's the other one i'm about to say i don't know i'm looking at this broken city what the hell is that i'm looking at it it's a political career with uh no just one hughes it's all hughes walberg and hughes and then there are two more two more one you might remember just as a you know anonymous title much like playing for keeps lay the favorites oh that's a freer's uh-huh her character's name is tulip uh-huh that's a mystery that has like 10 giant movie stars in it doesn't exist bruce willis is in if this wants it uh yeah yeah giant i mean it's a lot of movie stars who are at the tail end or whatever and then uh red 2 is the final now the thing about what we're talking about here is that this is the third of the three movies you know the top of cruelty terminal ocean so that we have we have really put a magnifying glass on catherine zeta jones's post-oscar bust yes you know like we haven't ever talked about great movies that she's been in such as the mask of zaro high fidelity traffic yes chicago just get right over that one not on the line up she stinks in that movie i rewatch recently kind of like i would be interested to rewatch i do not remember her working it almost works the only good joke in that movie is hankazari's hankunkit the entire time the whole support has that movie i remember walk in is there you know right tucci you got a good touch of the tucci in there um but like all the all the movies that made catherine zeta jones the star that she was and we've talked about this but this meteoric rise where it's basically like 1997 who the fuck is this yeah 2002 an oscar that almost feels like an overdue anointment oh at that point yes yeah just like well she's undeniably one of her greatest movie stars and then just a media drop off here that run of 2013 we just pulled out she's not been in a movie since then she's done five different tv series but she's not been in a feature film you're forgetting of course dad's army the british um you know homage sort of a revival that was 2017 that is her actual last film right since then she's done disney plus national treasure series i will say she has a film coming up what is it she's in kathy yans birds of prey follow-up which is called the gallerist that's right it has a stacked cast natalie portman jen ortega sterling k brown i've heard xcx i've heard unreleasable but or i've heard i guess like why hasn't it been released yes you should read the description because it's uh it grabs you a gallerist conspires to sell a deceased man at miami's art basil that's kind of funny in bernie's meets the art world sounds good to me it's also art world movie art world satire that is tricky remember velvet buzz you never saw velvet buzz you know if someone tries every couple years it's tough you know they're also silly to begin with stuff to settle i'm a fan kathy yann me too i'm excited for this i want to see it it does feel like she is someone who is just like a little cursed well but also i'm just like it feels like it's right there for the taking yes it feels like you don't have to go full uh substance yeah the right movie the right supporting part for kathleen jones you look like a genius yep and i thought she was incredibly good in side effects where i remember seeing them gears and going like this is it and then that movie just makes no impact that's a weird soderbergh like wilderness i really like that movie i don't like her i think she's a real david speaking to kathleen jones episode so far which is weird because i think she works in it i think she did i don't think i do think she's its weakest element a little bit i would argue that's jeffrey russia we can get there jeffrey russia he's in two scenes i like this i like this i like this i just i remember even at the time look i'm getting worked out about kathleen jones look this is down check with griffin i'm griffin it's a podcast about filmographies directors who have massive success early on their careers are given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion products they want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby kershner was in kentucky forget kershner forget kershner forget kershner it's the best line richard jenkins shows up in this movie and you're like we are off to the races richard jenkins drops 80 atomic bomb like just face like just eyebrow switches and then paul adelstein hits like 40 like just crazy but jenkins has two three scenes and i'm just like i want to know everything he feels like he's in the entire movie it might just be well low place the two meetings in the courtroom yeah you won't eat that croissant this is the main series on the films of joel and ethan cohen yeah together and separately it is called pod country broadcast today we're starting the drumbeat of the intolerable cruelty reclamation a movie i have found in my anecdotal conversations with people as we've been doing this series even the most ardent cohen supporters i know in my life by and larger like yeah i saw that when it came out in theaters it's bad right and i've never re-watched it i did a little bit well he tried but i agree with griffin that i know there are intolerable cruelty fans out there because i'm one of them yeah but we did kind of cast nets being like so come on who's the big defender out there ready to come on blank check famous podcast i'm 100 yes jackie to dreams yes steph rogan's on the show i said all this i was walking on top of 30 bucks just glaring this from the top of my lungs i couldn't really find anyone who was like yes intolerable i want to defend it because we've been such big defenders for a while we're like there have to be others and i just keep finding people who are like song theaters opening weekend disappointed didn't like i've never considered re-watching or i've heard from others like oh i mean it's okay you know a little bit of that not so much what i expect and what i've always thought since i saw it in theaters which is this rocks love it now david in order to complete this task we had to look to the aforementioned time 100 greatest podcast of all time list we had to shunt her from two other episodes she was booked on because we kept booking famous i think i was considered for three actually there were definitely three titles in the mix at some point i wouldn't have done any of them you are overdue we were like we're getting katie on somewhere in your series i'm gonna be in our defense you were also kind of like i'm coming to new york somewhere in like yes i'd make it difficult i was supposed to come on for a whole previous series and then i had to go to los angeles instead which is way less fun always uh yeah always um listen from one of the greatest podcasts of all time but also prestige junkie and all the angler katie rich who i'm overdue but i'm gonna anoint you with a title now we always say that you were kind of the first one check you kind of emily ashita was this is the thing but she was on this weird sort of working jerky did she do like the early shimelands before she said no she just talked about did a revisiting of force awakens so like it was basically it was the early run of me asking my friends and you had the star wars show you i feel like that's more comedian friends because it's like we were more of a comedy like i wasn't going to ask film critics that i admired and respected we call emily the mother of blankie it comes up with the term in the episode in that episode where like should we rename our show you were the first guest you were on the show was officially blank check i was on the sixth episode to be clear and it was kind of the first episode of the box office game got played i did it as a whim i was like oh let's try to guess i called out how much i love that weekend yes yeah so i want to i want to know you here in this decade of dreams the auntie of blankies oh god what an honor the auntie is true we sit on a porch just like this porch that is right here in the studio sipping on a sweet tea yeah half sweet or um half lemonade or palmer you know come on you have been talking for years pre-pandemic about doing a road trip and coming down david i realize you have a large cargo now but i love i love north carolina i love to be in our house including some of my kids are like oh yeah all i need are some toys i do think griffin was spiritually with us we went to pandora we went to animal kingdom and saw the floating animals of pandora in florida and i do think the dance that you sent to our house were like with us along on the journey and like i talked to you about going through the boat ride that people think it's boring but i thought it was beautiful anyway you have helped encourage it come down and see fire nash with us we're gonna be there opening night i'm sure i like that idea charlie went to the summer camp charlie passing future guest now nine years old which i just feel like he's on the national episode as a six-month-old baby and say baby and now he's nine years old i hope he keeps saying that but he went to summer camp and the week of the fire nash trailer came out and i picked him up and while we were in the car before we'd gotten like more than two miles away he got to watch this he got to see the fire nash trailer and he's so hyped we're ready we'll be there a few things in this horrible broken world make me happier than how much charlie the way he's talking about oh now i really want to like make you live inside of a nuclear explosion like he keeps me like it's gonna be an imax maybe i'll make an even bigger imax it's even more horrible to witness i will make you hurt uh basically every james cameron quote now is just him you know george r r martin is someone who clearly like hit a wall in his big creative process of his book and he just it's not like he got lazy he just started doing other stuff being like well i hope i figure that out one day right and maybe he will maybe he won't james cameron he made out he's not lazy no but i get the sense from him a little bit of like i just want to take a break and then i'm gonna get back to them where you're like 75 years old and he's not and he's a fit man i'm not worried about he could die in a submarine accident at any moment that's true although he would tell you like no fucking way am i dying in a submarine i'm smart i'm like all the other guys at staying alive in a submarine he's very good i just maybe he'll hand it off to somebody i don't know he's he's intimated he could that had always been my guess yeah and now he's saying i don't want to hand them off right here's my new theory he's always done this thing where after an avatar he's like maybe i want to make something else and then disney announces a new record-breaking deal for him to fast track and they built him like a space station this time right you know like they always built him some facility right after way of water he was like i'm gonna make this horosima movie right away and then they were like never mind fire and ash coming out two years on the clock right i also think he has most of the footage in the camp for four and five you think so yes most of two and three were together and then four and five were doing more since then i see he's got like the studio in new zealand right he's like kate wins in the tank look i want i want i want i just wonder if he's sort of now like i captured most of it can i be doing posts on avatars while making new movies i see which feels like a tall task but if anyone has the hubris to believe they could pull it off yeah to do the sort of schindler jurassic i was just gonna say it's like spielberg i i that's my new theory i'm all for it and i'm all for the sort of like these big directors hit a certain age of ridley scott syndrome and they're like i want to work more like i well it's not crazy i mean marty works he's like no really scott but no he's slowing down now he has been cranking i think the other thing with marty is it's like he can only work at a high budget and all this stuff because he needs to work pretty slow and have a lot of infrastructure around him whereas ridley scott's like i did my team you know we'll make a fucking you know i can build a pyramid for you in an hour or whatever it is he does yeah um catherine zeta jones zeta zeta that's an snl 25 jerry nicole lounsinger welsh access catherine zeta jones in the audience he goes you know the welsh action catherine zeta zeta zeta zeta is the leader zeta and i always forget how she corrects him i always think it's yeah uh catherine zeta jones the great catherine zeta jones in a way the great catherine zeta jones yes i was raised on catherine zeta jones right i saw masca zoro when i was 12 beyond that which by this woman we have said this the two trailers she had two trailer moments that they exploded the universe entrapment her going through the lasers and the end of the zoro trailer her clothes fall off and it felt like those two things it was like bill clinton got like state of the union we all agree this is the sexiest woman on the planet and it just felt like it was codified for like all children we're like i get you're telling me yeah this is like the height of like glamour and charisma and then there was this narrative that like michael douglas was like i must meet that woman bring her to me that's a decent thank you this is cnn uh and then it was right this constant comedy of like she has to change his diapers yep she's married to the oldest man in the world meanwhile he's like i'm going to play ant-man 20 years from now right then she's in traffic and people are like is she actually good actually right was the don't bullshit me but yeah she's pretty good and then within a couple years she's won an oscar okay i have this very strong memory of my industry dad having the variety that says she's fire all her reps and he goes like i know these movies haven't worked the uh yes terminal oceans 12 run in a row but he was like if you get academy award winner katherine zeta jones and the next three projects you give her are cohen's spielberg hanks you're doing your job you kind of can't get three better projects for her i would agree with that and yet they didn't none of them really worked out and this thing was on her this thing was none of them are her fault the reason that they did not work and i think i would agree i was thinking about her performance on this and whether she's a weak link and like who i would replace her with like here's what i want to bring up right now so 2003 david simms imagine him 17 years old a cinephile yes living in foggy london town reading his empire magazines by this point reading his sight and sound watching his old movies right active social life yeah i had a very active social life i am an extrovert of biting your bottom lip raising a roof doing those things dressing we're gonna say just okay probably some work to be done this this movie you see the fashion of the time and realize none of us really stood a chance that's an interesting point so but there's two movies that come out this year that are related to each other in that they are both trying to recapture the sort of throwback spirit of an old rom-com intolerable cruelty up to it more screwball comedy and then down with love which is more of a sort of 50s or stay rock Hudson kind of thing but they both have the same energy of like arch we are going super arch we've got movie stars we've got costumes we've got bright colors and audiences are like no thank you like absolutely not this is not the tone we prefer down with love has completely been reclaimed i would say yes down with love was essentially an instant cult classic it came out bombed critics were like blah but audiences were like we hate it and the oscar watch forums were like masterpiece right it has a period piece going for it right like it does does the weird kind of not a period piece but something of a period yeah i think it is why everyone bumped on this when it came out yes is for filmmakers who are so good at pastiche this is one of their most pastiche movies and yet it is committed to being dressed like a modern film and featuring modern things like video cameras and fucking you know just like the sort of the type of gold digger that it's about is a modern kind of you know all that shit i think that broke brains in both directions and even look at the trailer for this movie which can't decide a billion times you cannot decide you fascinate me was you fascinating was one of those uh you're duly appointed federal margaret 100 right um the trailer can't decide if they're trying to sell cohen's weirdness or they're trying to sell two sexy movies it's more trying to sell this is we got two hot people they're gonna fall in love and it's a comedy set in the world of the divorce lawyer okay fine but yeah you know like yes let me forget to klaus the baron heinz film exactly there's gonna be some goofy coen's stuff yeah and that's me again in the audience you know with a little finger being like i'm ready i love fresh light surges in the context of the movie those things do go hand in hand but selling them both together is really hard i think this movie is incredibly cohesive and like of a piece but i remember i did not see this at the time i serroneously from the moment i became cohen pilled when i saw the brother i haven't missed wonder films in theaters but i didn't see this in theaters because everyone around me told me it was bad it didn't get very good reviews and it vanished quickly both directions where i was like people going to see the comedy were like that thing sucks it's not funny and i was like well i don't trust them i talk to cohen's people and cohen's people in my life were like it's bad it doesn't feel like them it feels anonymous which is insane to me now it's insane now it's insane yeah but i do think there was that bumping of like people didn't know how to process this yeah i think this movie had been set in an arch 40s like sort of thing but i think it would have found its champions faster yes versus i feel like cohen's people who are like loathe to revisit this because they're like i just remember that being a complete nothing yeah i didn't watch it now i watched it for the first time on a plane years later and i was like that's the one i haven't seen i guess i should watch it and i got to the fucking kershner was in kentucky scene and i immediately was like this is fucking crest and surges this is the most urges of any of their films how do people not get this down to like it's weird like seven act structure it's like insane like scenes like set pieces built around dialogue and like seven internal games within a five-person conversation objection your honor poetry recitation right we would say you would say uh make hammer on his fanny the way they say nail his ass in five different ways david yes i've got an intentional air about you today well i'm more intentional about what i wear day to day oh i believe in pieces that feel easy comfortable and put together i'm sure you can get those from anywhere right oh quince oh he's showing tag on me um it's been my go-to because very clean fits very nice fabrics yeah don't they don't feel like cheap fabrics i hate dirty fits i hate cheap fabrics i am it we're in you know if the weather's getting warmer i really rely on my quince polo shirts for the kind of like exactly like a formal enough piece of clothing i don't go to the office but it's comfy yes because we do have a dress code here um so they got those 100 peanut cotton teas with a softness they got a feel oh and for those people david is touching the fabric can't take that same balance relax and comfortable i gotta tell you uh i recently had a birthday and my in-laws sent me a quince gift card because they know i like quince so much and i am itching to spend this that's a really strong endorsement that's an endorsement right yes um everything at quince is priced 58% less than what you find a similar brand so they work with those 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can count on plus get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape use the right plants learn how to care for them every step of the way can you imagine if wally had a promo code for fast growing trees that movie would insult it never would even exist right now they have great deals of spring planting essentials up to half often select plants and listeners of our show get 20 off their first purchase when using the code check at checkout that's an additional 20 off better plans and better growing at fast growing trees dot com using code check it check out fast growing trees dot com code check now's the perfect time to plant let's go together use check to save today offers value for a limited time terms and conditions may apply it also it's the funniest thing to me that this remains their most expensive film i've erroneously said i want to see what jj's research says because i've seen that number and maybe it is truly just uh cluny and catherine got their quote i think a lot of development costs maybe that's a member that always counts against the film in this movie just bopped around for 15 years i'm opening the dossier actually why not because indeed this is this is crucial to understanding internal cruelty because it lived many lives before the cohen's made it it was written as a film by robert ramsey and matthew stone who had made movies like man of the house of course soul man remember well life the um right ted demy uh martin lorenz eddie murphy dramedy that is like not bad it's so close to being great every five years i'll watch it and i'll be like is it a masterpiece yet and they write the script made of the house and soul man of course two of the least culturally problematic films ever no no no not soul man oh soul men with robert downey jr and bernie mack which is a service i mean you know a three a three it still sounds problematic he wanted to follow up his tropic fountain nomination i feel like that was like one of the last bernie mack movies right uh soul man came out in 2008 yes yes i want to say old dogs is the last one to be released but i feel like it's his last bernie mack where he's above the top um they wrote this this uh this concept based you know roncon center of the dwarse okay funny uh michael katon jones the director of dot hollywood is attached that makes sense sure like that sounds like a sort of okay roncon from the 90s so far right uh the cones come on as screenwriters because ron howard picks it up and brings them in to polish it he wants to make it after wrapping ransom and then howard moves on uh to make way for andrew bergman the director of the freshman it could happen to you another guy who makes that kind of 90s on base single but basically i don't know if the pitch was this focused at the time but i feel like my girlfriend was asking me like what is intolerable cruelty about and i was like how do i logline it and it's interesting because this felt like a script that studios were so hot on for so long right it's such a good premise and i was i guess the premise is divorce lawyer who becomes obsessed with world's greatest coal bigger right what if right what if the world's most uh you know brutal divorce lawyer and the world's greatest gold digger fell in love right and they sort of come passing with each other and but imagine ron howard doing that with like a gold digger like there's a cynicism baked into it it's hard to imagine a lot of these people doing it but i mean like i just figure guys like ron howard are like i'm making ron howard is the ultimate dream he's like i'm making a thriller maybe i'll make the easiest version i think everyone else is going to make a much softer version of this chronologically this is the first four higher work cones do right this is the start of the script so where are they this is like if you're going to make a sucker and they have many money so i think it's in the immediate post hud sucker they do a pass on this that pass gets people really excited that's when it elevates to like oh now it's ron howard level so after bergman joe dante came aboard and was going to make it with jeremy irons and heather lochlear which like they don't they're not a pair that makes sense uh jeremy irons like i can see that uh howard then returns then leaves to make uh grinch and beautiful mind other people are rewriting the script past the coen draft at this point so they had moved on they made fargo they were going to do other stuff then jonathan demi who's clearly seeking out a sort of throwbacky movie and eventually makes it with truth about charlie like circles this one with will smith this is what's insane i need to just get this timeline clear here he's trying to do truth about charlie with will smith will smith is doing ollie with michael man and ollie just takes too long surprise to surprise michael man movie runs over budget over schedule right he's like i guess i'll wait for you there's the uh threat of a wga strike that ends up not happening right that was right that has everyone panicked like you gotta get something made so then he's like can i find something maybe i'll make something in the meantime so right then he circles this and he and he he wants hugh grant sure oh yeah and tay leone but actually tay leone you're in english i hope she's not sure i watch a lot of just shoot me in this period well she's not in that i love she's not in the show it was called the naked truth okay hang on what i think tay leone is emerging with like flirting with disaster right there and then she's in deep impact for sure i guess the truth is what i'm thinking of right but her being in deep impact was kind of that thing of like she was in a movie that made money is she a star and like the answer is no i think she's very good sorry i didn't put us on a tay leone uh and then starting a weekly cover for naked truth where i believe she's naked rap and american flack um uh demi then uh pops off to go back to truth about charlie who's gonna be great i can't wait for will i'll do truth about charlie one of the worst movies are casting choices of all time not waiting for will smith and then he tries after the fact again with will smith because he's so angry that he missed his correct he makes truth about charlie he's coming off that probably thinking like nailed that everyone's gonna love it uh and then right it's like i still have tay leone attached i'm now going to try and attract will smith um sure i mean like hitch will smith kind of like overconfident but doesn't hitch is the perfect will smith rom-com vehicle down to now understanding how much of that movie is like weirdly biographical right um so the cohen's obviously the whole time are around the script polishers but they are developing to the white sea they're uh ill-begotten never made uh and obviously they want brad pitt and that movie has bounced from universal to 20th century fox it's a constant battle of like a budget between 40 and 60 million dollars they can get it made for 40 with brad pitt yes but every time they cohen's want like 60 and they want to shoot in japan and fox keeps being like isn't this like a movie with no dialogue they'll tentatively like ring lighted at 50 and then a new budget will come in at 60 and this is all they're actively in the middle of this like after a brother it's the thing they keep trying to make by 2001 joe colin says in an interview that to the white sea quote went down the old drain arena i do like it they're pretty you know kind of but they're like close to going yes it falls apart and they're like i guess we're giving up on this for good it's the one movie they to this day talk about is like that was a movie we wanted to make like of course they've had other projects that never came to fruition it's the great unmade movie right I have a question, actually. Were you in attendance of the early MGMT concert? Yes, I've seen that video going around. I'm not in that video, but I've got to know someone who's in that.
I haven't been able to find it. Yes, I saw them play multiple house parties circa 2004-2003. And you're like, this music is really crushing. That is.
That's a song they had in college. They would put it on at a party. Everyone would go nuts. Every wedding I've been to from someone from Wesleyan, they always play kids.
Everyone always gets them. It's a thing. What was the other one? There were two kids in...
Famously from the Minecraft movie trailer? And now beloved by children the world over? I think he's right about this. Kids now love Time for Ten.
MGMT has a generational moment. It's a great song. I love the second album, which is the one that everyone kind of... That was when everyone was like, we're out.
I know, it's a good one. Congratulations. It's the one with the optical illusion cover. Well, they're different.
There was a scratch-off cover for the vinyl release. Wow. It's Trevor King. It's very Trevor King.
I remember. So, yeah, that doesn't happen. They're disappointed. Yes.
And they are coming up to this point where it's like, okay, do we, like, strip to the White Sea, down to the tax and try to reconstitute if something's going to be cheaper or whatever? Or do we fucking do something else? Do we bury it? Do we move on so we don't keep getting hung up, losing years of our life trying to make this?
At this point, Pitt has moved on, but they had Clooney attached to Intolerable Cruelty. I mean, attached to the White Sea. And he's the one who's like, why don't we just fucking make Intolerable Cruelty? Look at this script.
Because Universal has pushed that to him as a potential star. Right. And it's just there. We have always liked this script.
Clooney's response, by the way, now having worked with the Coen brothers, they sent him the script. He's like, can I read the Collins draft? Everything I heard is that the Collins draft... He went to Universal and was like, can you dig that up?
That was the one that everyone got so excited about. Can I go back and read that? He reads that and he's like, I would do this. He goes to them.
JJ has a quote in there, but Carter Burwell basically says that within the same week, they called him to say, unfortunately, to the White Sea is dead. And then like three days later said, we're going to make Intolerable Cruelty. I hope he gets a chance to talk about Carter Burwell because he is on fire on this movie. Carter Burwell lit himself on fire with, what was it?
Bloods and Coley? What's the first movie? He's running on fire. He's just one of those guys walking around on fire ever since.
Incredible score that I think has never been released. You cannot find this one. I don't. Yeah, because it's like...
Like if I called Universal, they'd be like, well, that movie, we didn't make that movie. So, Clooney's attached. It's suddenly like super fast-tracked and Burwell was like, it felt like a breakup rebound thing. His Clooney is as hot as he could possibly be.
He's hot stuff, although we're going to talk about his career in a second because he's in a little moment. He's having a little moment here. But post-Oceans, in 2001, I do think there is a feeling of he's cracked it 100%, right? The irony, of course, is that Clooney never is able to replicate mainstream crossover movie star in the pocket outside of the Oceans trilogy.
And the way he did there, in that moment, I think they were like, he's crossed it off. But you're forgetting, the run is, it's really impressive. After Batman and Robin, we all love Batman and Robin. And then Peacemaker, which did okay.
You got like, out of sight, which it just does okay, but it's such a smash, critically. Which is the movie star persona. Like, that's where he figures it out. Like, that's the start.
And then Three Kings, which is, does pretty good, and again, gets amazing reviews. And then Perfect Storm, O Brother, Oceans 11. No, I know. It's pretty nuts.
But O Brother, not O Brother, I'm sorry. Oceans 11 is one of the 10 highest grossing films of the year. You're not going to beat Oceans 11. And even in this big ensemble thing, you're like, this guy's undeniable.
He's taking the Cary Grant mantle. I think that's a lot of the feeling. Totally. He's now the mayor of Hollywood.
It's just slap a talk on this guy in Moana. But what does he want to make? He wants to make an out-and-out comedy. It's funny that he's saying this, because he did make O Brother, but I guess O Brother is like such an odd movie.
He's like, can I fucking make a comedy? He's also editing Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, which of course he directed. And he has, like, he's finishing work on Solaris. He started his film.
The Laugh Riot of 2003. Which is, I mean, one of my favorite movies of all time, but it's a gloomy film. Let us say. And so I'm sure he wants to shake the sillies out a little bit, right?
Like, he's like, let me, you know, be a buffoon again for the Coens. And I think this is interesting. This is from a Vandy Fairpeace 2003. I was like, I did not work on that.
I know you did this gesture. I did. Where he says, he's like, this is kind of a terrifying thing to do, because this could be so bad. Like, when you're reading the script, this rat-a-tat, this screwball thing, we're like, I have to go for it, right?
I'm going to have to give a really big performance. And he does. And it rocks. But it could be so, like, ooh, incredible in this.
Yes. It's not like he's doing anything that silly. Like, he's not the big good character. I think this is, I guess we're the kill, but like, you know, the Baron and all those other side characters are doing so much of the height and stuff.
And he's into, like, locked-in Cary Granville. It's just very stylized. It's a stylized performance, which speaks to why audiences are bumped on this movie in general. What is this weird thing going on here without it having the clear signposts of being a period piece, being more stylized?
Yeah. Rumor has a top choice for this movie. It's Julia Roberts. Makes perfect sense.
Obviously, Clooney has literally just worked with her twice. Yes. Ocean's Inconfessions. Yeah.
They're pals. But Captain Tana Jones has just won her Oscar. Sure has. Right?
Mm-hmm. Although, I have to imagine, was this filmed after that? It must have been. Chicago was obviously having.
Chicago Oscar, like, March 2003. Oh, you're right. Yeah. Yeah, this film's after Chicago's done, but it filmed in June 2002.
Oh, wild. Mm-hmm. But they knew that she was going to hit Chicago. I mean, they knew she was going to hit Chicago.
Yeah. And they all had a great time with her. Chicago did feel like a... Do you think that Chicago's good?
Mm-hmm. Like, it was an Oscar contender until, like, October. Because it was supposed to be in New York, right? Right.
And people were just like, that can't be good. Mm-hmm. Man. It is crazy that it came in and just fucking, right, like, elbowed Marty out of the way.
And who's the other? There's two big... Hours. Hours.
Well, he just came on late. It was The Hours, I guess, right? And Two Towers. And Two Towers.
Right. Everyone was sort of like, told. And that's the year where I... Is every Best Picture nominee produced by either Rudin or Weinstein?
Except for... The Hours is the one Rudin. No, but Weinstein has his name on it. Oh, that's right, yeah.
He still has his name on it. Right. And his name is on it because he fired Peter Jackson or whatever the fuck. Nice work if you can guess.
He didn't... I think Weinstein's involvement with Chicago was low, but it was... It was a near-match movie? Yes, it was.
Gangsta New York was obviously Weinstein. He actually gets a nomination for that one. And then I do think he had something to do with The Pianist as well. Oh, I think they released it.
Oh, no. The Pianist was somebody else. The Pianist was... Am I wrong?
Fucking... Who even released The Pianist? Focus? No.
Now Plus. I think he's really not coming through on this one. Yeah, who knows? Who can tell you?
That's a mystery. We'll never know. Anyway, they had a great time making this movie. The cones did very little press.
JJ's apologizing. I don't know why you need to apologize to me. I don't employ you because you're fired. Apparently, they were already shooting Lady Killers when this movie came out.
Okay. So I guess they didn't do much press. They liked that it was set in the present. Cool.
Cool. Roger Deakins was coming off shooting House of Sand and Fog, another Laugh Riot. The cast was released by Focus. Yes.
There you go. Carter Burwell says he settled on a Mancini approach. Lighthearted. 60s jazz pop.
And it's a classic him reappropriating other music into the score beautifully. Must a pod sucker. And the film premiered. And I would say this is mistake number one at the Venice International Film Festival.
Oh, wow. Out of competition as a work in progress, which is insane. We've done that. He was still missing a scene or two.
Did this come out in October? I mean, it came out in October. Like, do not release this in October. This is a spring or summer movie.
Like, it's a light rom-com. But this speaks to them not knowing, like, is this a straight down the middle play and we're hiding the ball on a Coen's weirdness? Or do we want some level of, like, Coen's prestige? Yeah.
But it looks like America's Feethearts or some other kind of modern-day rom-com. So getting that prestige, even getting the Coen's people on board, I think is challenging because you look at the poster for it, you're like, I know what that is. It's the most generic poster in the world. They take this beautiful two-shot.
They're sitting next to each other. Well, there's this beautiful two-shot of, like, just incredible movie star glow of Clooney and Zeta-Jones in the elevator. A scene that is, like, thrown off its hump by a dog biting his hand and a bunch of funny dialogue. And they just, like, screenshot that and then remove the elevator and put them in front of the most generic blue cloud side.
What can I tell you? The boss is bad. Do you guys like the actual opening credit? You know, the sort of Vegas-y, you know, the Cupid's and the hearts.
Yeah, it's fun, right? It's like Monty Python flying certain things. I think they've got opening title sequences. I didn't, like, go through it.
I would say so, but this is a movie that demands it. I'm trying to think of other films of theirs that have, kind of, like, I mean, they'll crush it. Yeah, it's like, how you go through the city, but that's, like, the set. Yes.
Yeah, having a cold open and cutting to the title, like, makes sense for them, but, like, the Cupid's felt, you know. The movie is just this movie opening with, like, what is Jeffrey Rush doing in this? How does this factor into the plot? It takes so long to circle back in any way.
Yeah. So my thing with this movie is, I see when it comes out, I think it's great, and I'm immediately, like, the only fan of it, you know, and it's quickly forgotten. And then over the years, I will show it to anyone I date, any pal of mine, because I'm like, because they're always like, ah, I just want to watch something light. And I'm like, have I got a light movie for you?
The Cone Brothers made a rom-com with George Clooney. You want to watch it? You know, Clooney's here, and they're doing the right. And I'm like, listen to this Red Chatella.
And they're just like, I don't care. Like, it's never worked on anyone I've ever showed up to. It's wild. Isn't that weird?
Or am I the fool? I mean, I said something about Jeffrey Rush earlier. Like, I don't think it's that he's bad, but it's also like, he's doing the assignment. And there's something about that sequence being like, oh, she caught a hit shot.
He caught his wife sleeping with the pool guy. Like, oh, I kind of get what this is. Like, the Cone twist on it takes time to murder. If you need a name like Rex, Rex Roth, and like, the brain stuff.
Like, you know, the sequence later where it's him, you know, driving with the girl in the hotel room and Cedric and Tater bust in. Like, all the train stuff is so funny and specific. And then Jeffrey Rush feels more generic Hollywood divorce kind of thing. I think that's part of the challenge.
I think you're right. It's very broad. And it's kind of nonspecific. I don't know what you mean.
Kind of earthy. And you're sort of like, what does this have to do with anything? And the answer is... In this sense, they need this big of an open credit sequence because you kind of need to like call it reset immediately.
You've also, it's like, you know, you need to understand that this guy, Jeffrey Rush, like, nailed his wife in Flavery Rante so hard. And yet, Miles Nassi, like, took him for everything. This guy is unbeatable. We can get Clooney in there and being like, well, we assume that he beat you or that he was trying to see the pool guy or whatever.
Like, that's the tone he's coming in. Who's the lady? She's very funny. She's got a great race.
Yes. I meant to look her up also. Stacy Travis. But the movie doesn't resume with them in courts.
It just kind of jumps ahead and you understand that is another battle he won. I do love the setup of just, this guy is so fucking good at divorce law that he's bored. Right? That he can just pull off anything.
You can see how thoroughly the back is stacked against the guy. I think it's great. Exactly. I think that's so funny.
And it's basically like, hi, like, I cheat on my wife all the time. Right. She's caught me doing it. I don't have a prenup.
Right. And I, like, you know, I've been married to her for years. You try to use the open marriage experience. But that talk about was a great alarm.
Well, Clooney's like, you want to, like, put your unoffending wife out on her ass. And you propose. She had her talk. And Clooney's basically like, light up.
So that's so obscene. I guess I could try. It's quite a demonstrable. Well, that's great.
But Clooney's performance has not so much of Fantastic Mr. Fox. Because it's a similar rat attack vibe. And they're like, oh, what's left for me in my life?
It really feels like Wes Anderson saw this movie and was like, that's a really good call. Now that Clooney just did a bomb back. And is, you know, whatever. Seems to be sort of getting limber again.
Oh, it's coming. Can I do it, Wes? Can I have live action, Wes? It would be so great.
It would be really good. You know, the whole thing with Fantastic Mr. Fox is that he didn't record them in booths. Oh, yeah.
They're running around in circles in the grass. He brought the whole cast to his home. Yeah. And they acted out the whole movie on, like, mini-dv cameras and pulled that audio.
So you can see there's, like, 70 minutes of Clooney acting through all of Fantastic Mr. Fox. We're saying, hey, George, how about the rest of your movies? To be a movie star, which you are better at than anyone alive.
So let's just, right, let's just touch on Clooney. No, we've done Clooney before, obviously. We just did O'Brother and we will be doing Burn and Caesar. What else have we done over the years?
We did The Oceans. Oceans on Patreon. We did Batman and Robin on Patreon. You guys have been avoiding Soderbergh.
Tomorrowland. I'm avoiding him. He's in Tomorrowland. Yeah, we did Tomorrowland, which is not a, he's not bad in it or anything, but he's such an odd performance because he's so depressed.
Y'all have done Money Monster? No Money Monster fans in here? We haven't done Money Monster. I would have done that movie.
Really? It's not great, but there's stuff there. I mean, it's just the most crucial performance is one of the worst three performances I've ever seen from a good actor or sometimes good actor. The Jack O'Connor?
He's so brilliant. I just don't ever see it. It just ruins it. Jack O'Connor's coming back.
It's not the time to re-appraise him. Yeah, well, then he should, like, explain to that movie. He is a good actor. He's so off in that movie.
I remember nothing about Clooney. I remember Julia being good in it. Yeah, I remember it. Bit of a boring old movie, but anyway.
But it does feel like the last 10 years, every time he's been like, I'm ready to do the movie Star thing again, he's kind of picked wrong. Like, it's Money Monster, Tomorrowland, all these look good on paper. Take it to Paradise. I feel like everyone was so forgiving of because they were like, this is what we want you to do.
But everyone's like, okay. It wasn't on a plane, which is, it's natural. Wolf's still, it's like. Wolf's didn't even get that treatment.
Had it been released in theaters, people might have again kind of been like, we appreciate you trying. You know, Wolf's never saw it. So bad. Okay.
I think it really sinks. I watched it after months of everyone telling me how hard it sunk. And I said, then I'm like, this is totally scratching the itch. What's everyone talking about?
And then it ended and immediately I was like, I was kind of riding along with it the whole time, cruise altitude and was like, whatever, it's bad oceans, right? And then it ends and you're like, that was nothing. What a waste of everyone's time and energy. The audacity to be like, well, maybe Wolf's too is coming.
And you're like, it's all fucking. It's all been training. Like, it's all been training. And he'll blow this house down.
And indeed, he's just been making his own films. Yeah, he's in Midnight Sky to his credit. It's terrible. No credit.
I mean, he won't give me his own movies. But you're like, do you? You're awful. And you're like, I can't believe this isn't the worst movie George Clooney has directed.
And like, I never saw The Boys in the Boat. I didn't need to see those boys. I did never see The Boys in the Boat. The Tender Bar was one of those things where I'm like, hey, you got to a C-.
Like, if something's happening where you're improving a little bit, that movie was watchable. I see The Boys in the Boat. I feel like it's throwing smoke. He's really good in that.
In Tender Bar. And you're like, he'd be getting an Oscar nomination if this movie weren't directed by George Clooney. Possibly. And also, it was one of those, you know, pandemic movies that went right to streaming where it's like, you're not going to.
That's what's great. I remember the year that Suburban was a tip. David, you talked to Clooney then. Because I think he was trying to go and be like, look, I'm not going to tell you.
No, but it was like the pre-release apology. He was basically trying to tell you why his movie actually isn't that bad. It is one of my favorite, my single favorite things that came out in the Sony hacks was his email with Amy Pascal after the first completed screening of Monuments Men. Where he's like, Amy, what can I say?
Sometimes you miss. I'm sorry, you gave me a bunch of money. You entrusted me. Sometimes the elements just don't come together.
We're all embarrassed by this. And we're going to hold our head high and march forward. And you're like, he fucked up. Monuments Men?
When the movie was announced on paper, you were like, unquestionable B-. This is such a sleepy movie. Like, that one at least made money. Shockingly, made money.
Well, because I had to march forward before that. And that movie was, I don't remember it that way. I despise that movie it was literally nominated for an Academy Award for writing it one of the most charitable Oscar nominations I've ever seen I think it was charitably treated like a B-1 it's more of a C-plus it is an F would you like it now having seen Minutes I said March is worse because it really thinks it's smart this is a really sophisticated political thriller it's got kind of nasty it's a bad bad movie if anything we were maybe a little kinder to it in the moment because you were like look Leatherheads wasn't a mistake he's getting back to the kind of thing he should be making because he was not going to make it well for such a long time he's like look that movie works and like Leatherheads also is bad but beyond it being bad it's like also even if you make a good one audiences are mostly just going to be like your old tiny foosball little triangle I'm just doing this kind of like take the ball come on you want it and Jack Krasinski got to continue being a movie star after that despite that it feels like Krasinski was one of the big people pushing Krasinski project for a long time I think Krasinski's really good at making friends and not that Krasinski is no joke but he's really because I hear a lot about really respected people who love John Krasinski and I'm always like really but I think there was like 10-15 years of Damon and Clooney being like we're telling you Krasinski is the next one of us and it seems like a long way we're writing movies with him we're casting him we think he's got the goods to be a multi-tool player if I just want to call out the single greatest movie to play in Cinematrix because it has 20 a list of voice actors with one sentence I just implore all of our listeners to look up the character posters for If that's all you need to memorize it's just the character posters and they all just come in for a hot second or Clooney might be in the post credits no it's Brad Pitt who shows up at the very end as a silent character you play a Pitt and then it's like Confessions of a Dangerous Mind which is a niche movie it's pretty good Solaris which is a huge bomb and is a masterpiece according to like eight people of whom is me Intolerable Cruelty Ocean's 12 and then like one year later he does Good Night and Good Luck in Siriana and wins the Oscar and that's one of those things of like okay good job you won an Oscar you gave an fatuous speech you didn't kind of made fun of but you won an Oscar but doesn't it kind of feel like it's over a little bit right there he still makes Ocean 13 Michael Clayton he makes good movies but it's a new era now it's like Grey Hair Clooney he's no longer he's already kind of gone away from whatever this little era was out of sight I think the next era is it's Descendants Up in the Air and Gravity The American I remember that Burn After Me obviously Michael Clayton the three best actor nominations of Michael Clayton Up in the Air and Descendants are like he cut his quote to nothing he worked with a younger or rising auteur and he like pushed the movie to like best picture best director status got a best actor nomination all three times people were like is he going to win a second acting Oscar because he was sort of so in his movie star pocket and all three of those movies become like crossover middle brow hits but also like Up in the Air 80 Domestic Descendants like 70 Domestic Michael Clayton 60 Domestic it was like he is willing to cut his quote to $2 million and make a movie a crossover that felt like a kind of good period for him but it's a somewhat distinct era it's distinct from that first one and it ends with Tomorrowland which is like him trying to make a more traditional tentpole again and then it just doesn't exist that's the end but like I'll do a supporting role to help out a project kind of things but you're right that all of these roles are now like kind of post-modern Clooney movie star persona where he's playing the saddle with a hill version of himself we're like showing that maybe this guy is kind of broken inside doesn't Casamigos I was about to say I have exactly for you no I'm going to tell you exactly what happened Hail Caesar Money Monster 2016 he sold the company Casamigos a little tequila operation he has going on with his buddy ride motorcycles wear jackets in 2017 I interviewed him he sold it in 2017 I interviewed him in 2017 for Suburban and he says very blankly like I have more money than God he doesn't say exactly that but he's basically like from now on if I am in something or if I'm making something it is only because I'm interested in it I have Hollywood can give me nothing like money I have so much money you look at the CV from that point on and you're like huh so you're exclusively interested in boring dogs it's a shitty taste huh but it truly is he's basically and I appreciate in theory because all the movies he made are you know not franchise movies he's making original stuff like you know in theory I'm like cool thank you good job it's just they're all bad is he a blank check director sure the worst guy you guys have a great time on that series are you worried that he was in a limited series version of Catch-22 he directed the entire thing he went to every stream because that was Hulu and then Midnight Sky was Netflix and Tender Bar was Amazon and I swear there's an Apple one in there too but Wolves Wolves Boys in the Boat was Amazon like he just hopped around the stream collecting bags of money to give him C plus everybody Catch-22 was him Grant Haslog wrote and directed and he was going to play the lead in the last second he was too old so he has to have it and he plays he plays a small role but you know big Kyle Chandler and Luce Pullman and lots of them it doesn't exist look if I'm Clooney I can be like but it's not just the pandemic he's a smart guy when I interviewed him he's so smart he's married to this you know genius he's like political but like I'm like but he's kind of middle-brown and it's like when he was picking her up in the air those are middle-brown movies even Michael Clayton they're just like really good ones I mean Descend is just okay and up in the air he was making like incredible intelligent adult popcorn and then suddenly it's like he's making unseasoned vegetables every time he's just boiling some broccoli he's just like curating medium taste and then he's smart enough look I don't know I have great taste in my opinion can you direct and if you're like you have unlimited money and clout David I'd probably make a bunch of dogs I'm not that you have to be a certain kind of person and I do think pressure helps it's better to be under pressure Clooney's under no pressure so that's probably kind of bad in a way let's also call it on top of the fucking Cosmigo's money he's also already rich but also gravity the FX budget was so huge on that movie and it was developed to be Angelina Jolie and Robert Downey Jr and they both drop out late and when he goes to Bullock and Clooney he's like I can't offer you money because the money's all on screen you both get back in I believe Clooney got tens of millions of dollars Sandra Bullock made like 100 million I thought she made more Sandra Bullock made the kind of money where you're like she's just going to stop making movies that's always what I want to happen I truly think she made 100 I think she did I mean it wasn't huge she made like 750 million thousand that was the moon the moon they had to shoot at it with a big cannon they shot a big bag of money no it was such a big hit and because it was seen as so risky they offered them so much of first dollar so let's defend Tom McCrullough yes blankies quick question and be honest when was the last time you actually thought about how much fiber you were eating not protein not calories fiber in the US fewer than 1 in 10 adults hit their daily recommended intake and fiber isn't a bonus nutrient it's foundational that's where Huel comes in on those days when I got to rush to the studio to tape an episode and I need a quick and healthy meal I reach for one bottle for one scoop that gives me everything a real meal is supposed to give you the black edition ready to drink has 35 grams of protein 7 grams of fiber 27 essential vitamins and minerals no artificial sweeteners it's gluten free and it's under 5 bucks or let's say on the days that I want something a little more customizable I use the black edition powder I can add it to whatever and get 40 grams of protein same complete nutrition just a different vibe the RTD and powder duo has become my insurance policy against chaotic days and makes staying consistent so easy limited time offer get Huel today with our exclusive offer of 15% off online with our code check at Huel.com slash check new customers only thanks Huel for partnering and supporting our show so we go Jeffrey Roth extended sequence and we go Edward Herman who loves trains do you think he has a full like he has to the trains have to be involved for him to get it up there's this sort of quiet acknowledgement of like trains are involved with sex she lets me be myself yeah I'll be so happy about it too but there's weird sex before that too because you see he built devices which is like a video burn after reading but that's a sex machine one of the greatest slow burn bits of all time but also it just feels very Cohen's of like let's cast the most milquetoast middle-aged lady with like big hair and glasses and have her be like I was his sexual slave while like Clooney and Paul Adelstein are just like bickering with each other it's also the kind of thing that the Coens love to just like comment on is just like it's so funny that there's just this fucking whatchamacallit the typist the court's not oh yeah which kind of lady being like do you want a milk bone whoop whoop whoop but if that didn't exist the Coens would create it you're telling me some disaffected just sit there a typewriter and type up every insane thing I'm thinking of the woman in the courtroom this one I'm thinking of the woman in the trailer are they the best at like middle-aged women with dowdy hair just being so hilarious it's vital to them it's essential to them but also I guess they never made a legal movie before right you know like the courtroom is a great venue for them to be silly and all of the courtroom scenes in this movie are so funny poetry recitation of Dexter Ron strangling a witness I'm going to allow it stuff like that of course just like this sort of get smart joke of like the bayless keep opening doors he's the lawyer in fucking Margaret he's the guy who writes all the prisons the for-profit prison monger in Veep his daughter is Mary Holland who Tim Simons gets hooked up with he's like in a thousand things he looks so different in this than everything else that I always forget it's him but he's got the eyes he always has those eyes but you're right he usually plays a kind of like rumpled men cheek he's so fucking funny he's so good Katie alluded to this but the introduction of Clooney is through his teeth right oh brother it's his hair here it's his teeth right I just like this immediate like we're dealing with the ultimate movie star and we're starting out by showing you how the sausage gets made it gets made like how much work goes into making this guy look like this and it helps balance the scales of the women and the plus surgery because the way that it gets to like rich Hollywood people like that part of it works less well when you're like the women sitting by the pool and talking about their liposuction and stuff like that that again feels more broad and coincide but having that emphasis on Clooney I think helps balance it out and like the panda his like movie star smile and the score you know swells as he's standing at the desk it brings it back to being more than just it's so good and it also it's just like it gives you a drum roll so when you get to the full reveal of Clooney's full face because we're seeing him in the chair first then we're seeing him in the car with reflections and we're seeing the teeth and nothing else and you're just seeing him test out the teeth in the rear view mirror and everything it feels so satisfying when you're getting the full Clooney verse but I also like that it's kind of a everyone wants to be Clark Gable even me thing but this guy is a construction these people are constructions no one is just like this and these people are very caught up in their reputation and their mythology and the Massey prenup and all these things and then we're just seeing him he's an ultimate conqueror but he's so boring he can barely get it up he's torn down his house twice just for fun he has a tab at the Mercedes dealership we don't think we ever see his house at the end that's where the house she's in his house and you see his tennis court he's a person with no interests he's only good at this he's created of course an unbreakable prenup agreement that is like legally profound which I just think is like a perfect screwball you come up with the idea of something that is so important and so huge that you will never break down and explain you never get into what makes the Massey prenup so good but also we should acknowledge Edward Herman is busted by a camera crew like by Gus Petsch Gus Petsch played by Cedric the Entertainer who's like firmly in his early post-barbershop kind of original kings of comedy where it's just like get this guy in movies 10 minutes of Cedric please he's gonna nail your ass and you're ordering and then you're like and you know what 10 minutes of Cedric have him in there Gus Petsch likes doing one thing nail an ass and he nails it and I would've kicked his ass if he busted in on me you would've nailed his ass you're trying to nail your ass and I would've fucking nailed his ass with it I do love this is the only period where it would still be like an over the shoulder like it's less fun if it's a stupid joke and he's that huge light like glaring on that poor woman in her underwear but you're right it is a thing that I think people couldn't verbalize at the time where they were like how can this movie exist in a modern reality TV landscape but yet everyone is talking like they are in the Great Depression yeah which is perfect like it's fine if you want to set that up but getting people to actually buy into it without actually seeing it is the hard part yes so yes he successfully defends Rex Ress Roth Rex Ress Roth Rex Ress Rex Ress this is also Edward Herman of course is like right in the middle of his sweetie run on Gilmore Girls so it's fun to see him be a rascal and even though Marilyn, Captain Zia Jones is ostensibly in the right basically they've got a great showdown with Richard Jenkins that's the young Kershner this was the scene I watched it a couple days ago my girlfriend was disappointed because she was like oh I've never seen that one and I was like I just watched it and I just showed you the one scene I showed you the thing that no one gets and I think you'll lock into it immediately and I just showed her this one scene and it's just like a three minute symphony of dialogue it is basically just two two shots reversed right around a table just on fire just like precision switch watch timing and the overlapping threads that keep circling back the way that it implies the relationship between Jenkins and Clooney is like oh sorry about the award or whatever it was and he's like taunting him over the pastries like there's so much history between those two guys he just knows exactly how to like cuck him and make him have his backboard defensive I mean you know he's just perfect it's not like early in Richard Jenkins' career obviously he's been working for so long the 2000s are when Hollywood start finally giving him his power he's also speed under at this point yes but he was He was like, you know, a spark plug in that show because he was dead. Spoiler alert for the opening seconds of Sissy D'Other.
He'll come in and be sarcastic and all that. And he's in and wasn't there. Also, as a lawyer, from what I remember, we haven't done that episode yet. And the Coens love him.
And I remember they gave some interview. Like, if you need a sort of milquetoast, fussy guy like Richard Jenkins. He's also used him a lot. He's in all of their...
He's in Me, Myself, and Irene. He's in Something About Mary, Tiny Roll. He's really good in Hall Pass. He plays a pickup artist in Hall Pass.
That sounds good. He's in Rick Jenkins with a fedora and Ed Hardy shirts. How many Coens is he in? He's in Burn After Reading after this.
Oh, he's in Burn After Reading, right. So three? I think that's it. That's his year.
The Burn After Reading, Visitor. Is that saying he's a visitor? Yeah. Step Brothers.
Or all this new year. Step Brothers is obviously his peak and American acting's peak, would you say? Yeah. I don't give a fuck.
It's like, you can use that any time. But it's all the fucking dinosaur. Well, obviously, the dinosaur stuff at the end is amazing. Which is entirely improvised.
Do you know that? I mean, it's just called with something. There's the moment where he starts doing the T-Rex arms and he looks down at them as if, like, remembering what he's lost. Do you know what we're talking about, man?
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but he just tells the boys at the end, like, I also had dreams once. I wanted to be a dinosaur. And they're like, yes. I do remember this.
He says the whole movie, like, you have to be adults. You have to get a job. You have to get responsibility. At the end of the movie, they're like, having a wine mixer.
They're like, both doing jobs and they're like, talking about taxes with each other joylessly. And he's just like, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but this is depressing. You guys need to go back to doing what you were doing before. And they were like, Dad, we like Roth IRAs.
Like, come on. And then he's just like, no, no. And his big emotional speech about, like, not losing your flame is that when I was a child, I wanted to be a dinosaur. And my parents told me, you can't do that.
And I gave up with my dreams. I thought someday I'd circle back to being a dinosaur. And I never had the chance. And then they'd keep going, like, what do you mean?
I was so good at it. I put my arms at my side. I would roar. And they're like, but you're a human.
You can never be a dinosaur. And he's like, that's why I let them convince me. Wow. I mean, that's crazy that he improvised.
That's such a good choice. He's going to eat your dick. Like, Kobayashi. I don't know.
Sephiroth is still good, right? There's a problem with Sephiroth. No, it's five stars. The whole, the best Jenkins apart from shut the fuck up is, is that it?
Or when is it when John C. Reilly just does the long monologue about how Mary Seymour is going to want to fuck him? That's like the introduction of those characters. So long.
From my test tubes down to my ball throw. And I think he breaks the plate. Anyway. You know what?
Richard Jenkinson. What's up? He's an if. He is an if.
He plays a little wooden artist model version of himself. He hasn't been in a movie for accepting his voice role in if since Nightmare Alley, which he's very good in. And I don't. He's done like four shitty TV films.
He played like Jeffrey Dahmer's dad in the Jeffrey Dahmer thing. Thank God. And now he's in the Ed Brubaker annotation of Criminal, which I'm very excited for. Ed Brubaker, friend of the show, inexplicably one of those people who's so important to David and I, who is now a listener.
But in whatever recent Coen's episode, we were saying where's Jenkins been. And he's like, he's crushing it on Criminal. Which is going to be on Amazon, I think. But I want him back.
I need more Jenkins. And he introduced Devontae Randolph at the Critics Circle the year she won, which was what? 2024? When was that?
Three. For Holdovers, because they did some tiny movie together that no one ever saw. You guys are talking about this on there. So basically what happens within Miles, before he destroys Marilyn in the courtroom, they go out to dinner.
I'm sorry, they finished giving Richard Jenkins his flowers. The thing that's so beautiful about that scene that all rests on Jenkins' shoulders is how quickly he goes from kind of begrudgingly accepting the way that Clooney bites him down to at the end being so emotionally overcome with like, I'm going to take my briefcase and go home, that Clooney's destroyed his spirits. But Clooney asks Adrian to go out to dinner, sort of as a kind of like, again, extension of his boredom of like, maybe I just take her out to dinner. Like, if she's, you know, like, it's such an ethical...
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think legally is he allowed to do this. I have that question. But I do think there's like a little bit of like Ethan Hunt, Elsa Faust in this movie where it's just like, they immediately lock eyes and know, yeah, we're the only two people on the planet who operate at this level.
Yeah, I mean, the way they order wine together is like a Rattat dialogue thing is gorgeous. So, their dinner scene is nice. This is where I... I'm sorry, Catherine.
I think she's like, good. I wish someone was amazing in this role. Okay, so can I get Clooney as elite in this role? Can I get my take?
Yeah, let's do that. After watching this movie... And is there a better... I was like, I really want to watch Lady Eve again.
Sure. Because it's not like this is like a quiet remake of Lady Eve, but I do think it pulls a lot of things from Lady Eve. Obviously, for fans who don't know Lady Eve, it's one of the better movies ever made. Yes.
Barbara Stanwyck and Henry Fonda, the Preston Sturges movies. And it's a movie about an elite con artist, Card Sharp, who multiple times romances the heir to an ale fortune. There's a lot of difference between beer and ale. And it's a similar movie where there's this kind of like, she keeps running different cons on him based on who has the power in the situation.
And part of the mystery of the movie is like, when are there real feelings and when are they not? And what's motivating what? And when is it just about money and whatever? But that movie is all basically told from her perspective.
Even though you meet him first. No, he's the mark. You're getting her doing the kind of ocean style, here's what I'm going to do. And you have the scenes where she's going back to her father and explaining what's changing in her mind.
So you're not sure if she's going to be able to pull it off. But the fun is her outlining what her intentions or her plans are and how things get in the way. In this movie, the character is kind of sphinx. It's clear that what they're sort of enjoying is that you're watching the film and it has these gaps where you're like, wait, what just happened?
Why did we just cut ahead six months? And you need to untangle it after the fact. Only at the end, you realize everything she's done. Right.
They're hiding the movie's biggest twist, which they want to hide because it's a twist of like when she reappears with Billy Bob Thornton. Right. That's a horror movie. The movie's not even brought up yet.
But I guess that's what I just... But I think it means that there's not that much she can play. It's obvious to say, well, is the best version of this Julia Roberts? Because you just imagine the whole movie having the liar and the thief's energy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see the scene of them at the dinner table together and you imagine that... That scene, you know, she's loving it. Which is perfect.
Who are the big other kind of, you know, elite female stars who could... Okay, not to conjure Leatherheads again, but could Renee Zelliger have done it? No. No, I don't think so?
I don't think she's a good one. And she's my big problem with Down With Love. I do know. Yeah, she could have done it.
She's going to have to have one of the other. But obviously, she and Clooney, right, they did try at chemistry later. He's already done a Julia movie. He's already done Michelle Pfeiffer.
Someone could have done it. She could have done it. Yeah. Who else?
Michelle Pfeiffer makes sense. She's like on the cusp of being a little aged out or whatever, but yes. I mean, Callie Berry is huge at this point, but I don't think she wouldn't work in this role. No.
Comedy Not Her Strong Suits. But you're like, who's in goddess territory? Is an adult woman? Like, it can't be a girl.
It can't be like Charlotte Johansson or whoever the new stars are. Yeah, I don't know. You know, sure, Julia. I mean, I'm just saying, like, if you cast Julia in this, and they obviously have such good chemistry and abiding back and forth with each other, I still don't know if Julia makes this part explode, because part of this role in construction is- You don't know what's going on with her.
You're not seeing the hand she's holding until the very end. Julianne Moore? Julianne Moore could have been excellent. She should kind of do everything, right?
Yeah. She could have been excellent. She does her own divorce lawyer rom-com. I just had the thought while watching this movie, and you missed the fun of the surprise of the complete unraveling at the end and realizing what you didn't realize you were watching the whole time.
Yes, you see, Julie Pond Thornton on the soap opera is, like, a key delight that you don't get if you don't care about it. Like, the Julia Duffy scenes, which I agree with you, are kind of the broadest and least interesting parts of the movie. Instead, have more of a sense of, who is this character? What is animating her?
Yeah. Her planning, and it felt like the movie was more of a tennis match and less. We're seeing what's going on from Queenie's perspective, and she's unknowable. I think there's a certain degree to which this part, as written, couldn't be played better than it is, because the meat of the role is actually not depicted on screen.
And it is supposed to be, like, right, you're this beautiful, thinks-like woman, and she's totally good at that, and so my suggestion of, uh, um, blah, blah. What about Holly Hunter? Coen's collaborator. She's older than Clooney.
By three years. Would she work as the, like, the, like, gliding... No, but she is. All right, the one I was going to throw out.
And they're great in a brother together. That's true. That's the other thing. You're like, who has a key worked with, right?
Already at this point? He tends to work with Kidman. There's a universe where Kidman could have done this. Yes, Kidman absolutely could have done this.
This is an era where she could have done something like this. The Stafford Wives is around this time, or whatever. There's been a much better choice than Stafford Wives. But he's basically worked with all the A-listers in his age group.
Yeah. Oh, Sandra Bullock could have done it? Yes, he does. Yeah.
She could have. This is, like, she's still a big star. Yeah, the reality isn't too far away from this. But it's definitely, because, like, by the time she was in Crash, which is a couple years later, you were kind of like, oh, Sandra Bullock.
Well, then she disappears again in the blind side. The other one I was going to throw out is Charlize. I think she could have done it. She wasn't doing comedies, then.
No, this is the year she does Monster. She's not really a proven actor yet. So she's not big enough yet to hold her own against me. I don't think so.
Yeah, that's fair. Clooney never worked with Winslet, did he? I'm looking at, like, best actress. I don't know if Winslet did.
I don't know if Winslet worked in this. Cameron Diaz. No. I'm not talking about obvious, like, you know.
Uma. Yeah, Uma's, look, this is the Killville year. Uma's a little in the wilderness, too. Killville kind of, you know, is her first big hit in a long time.
How's Uma at comedy like this, though? I don't know. Uma's a weird one. That's not her strong point.
Ben just said slowly Uma and then pulled her back away. Like, that's it. My job. I mean, Blanchard's the one I think could have been interesting, but no one would consider her in this way.
Yeah, she's really in the wilderness in this period, right? How dare you? The Missing? Well, yeah, because she, like, writes out with Elizabeth and then makes, like, eight terrible movies.
I'm obsessed with her prestige run post-Elizabeth pre-Oscar cast, where it's truly, like, you know, a relief pitcher coming into throwing, like, eight waffishes or whatever, and then suddenly, like, you know, we're like, oh, okay, she got it. She got the Oscar. And after that, she was on the straight and narrow. In the same period, Kate Winslet, like, two out of every three movies she makes are nothing and none of them stick to her.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she was just, like, we all love Winslet. Well, she had, like, three Oscar nominations. She would just occasionally, you know, do even an iris and that would be enough to be like, yeah, we still love Kate Winslet if she shows up.
And so, yes, nobody thought about the lives of David Gale or the hideous kinkies. Just a sneak peek. Sorry, Titanic probably gets it there, too. It was a kind of a joke that lingered in the concert.
I don't know why. Anyway, so, he annihilates her in court. So, the next sequence is, right, is... Wait, wait, wait, there is somebody That's, like, if round is funny.
Like, that's perfect Cohen's service worker comedy. Just, like, every line in this movie is funny. It's just, like, a little kind of, like, story box. Can I say, and I don't know if you guys agree with this, I didn't announce this yet, but I do think the first half is better than the second half.
It doesn't run out of steam, exactly, but the first half where the stakes are so defined and Clooney is so on fire and the courtrooms are so fun, whereas the second half where it's a little heavier on the plot twist and it kind of, like, you know, I love the biggest stuff so much, though. It's funny. I'm not mad at it. I'm just saying, like...
Yeah, I just... Okay, so this was another reason I rewatched Lady Eve last night. It's, like, Lady Eve is ostensibly a three-act movie. Yeah, I mean, you're talking about one of the best movies.
I know, I know, but I was just, like, there's a similar thing going on that's very unorthodox in the year that this movie's coming out, right? Lady Eve is, like, a three-act movie if you actually look at the story, but act one is, like, 50 minutes long. Right. Act two is, like, 20 minutes long, and act three is, like, 10 minutes long.
And I think that was a thing back in the screwball era where they were just, like, this kind of diagrammatic, you need to build your three acts and each one needs to be half an hour, right? And it needs to be, like, this clean. They were sort of, like, everything is as long as it can justify being while still being entertaining. And if the boring part of the movie needs to, like, you need to get through that faster, then you get through it faster.
Or if something more interesting can happen, then there's four acts. Like, who cares, right? Right. The first 45 minutes of this movie is the dissolution of the marriage dead were turned in.
Right. Almost half of the film is basically act one. And so then it's a movie where the acts speed up as they go along. Yeah, because Billy Bob Borten should be like, oh, this is the rest of the movie.
It's like, not really. He's kind of in and out very quickly. Right, that feels, again, sort of like Jenkins of him being like, we just worked with this guy. We loved him.
He's so funny for one second in this. It's like a 20-minute act, too. Right, but to conclude this one is he nails her ass with Heinz the Baron, the Baron Cross on Espy, who, after he sets her up by having her cry about how much she loves Rex Rocksworth, brings in this guy and is basically the guy. He's like, I found a rich, stupid husband.
He's a Tenzing Norgay. Silly man, a Tenzing Norgay. Just any time they come up with a good combination of sounds that you can repeat six times. And we should just ask, does anyone have any bones in the house here?
Oh, they want the bones. The milk bones. The crunchy for the teeth. Maybe, there are no maybe's.
Maybe, but of course. I think he's got this one here later than the Baron. Like, he's broader than stuff than, like, Wee Crook of the Hills or whatever in Vegas. I'm really into, like, Lumiere from Beauty and the Beast being an Indian woman.
Like, I just like that kind of a guy. With a tiny dog, ideally. Oh, so you love Martin's, man. Does it have fun?
It's Jerry Orpac. Oh, do you start time? Beat Clooney for that Descendants, Oscar. And that was their makeup.
The crazy thing is that he, who did he, there's a crazy one he beat in there. Brad Pitt. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Anyway, so, he annihilates Marilyn and then, as you say, it's like six months later. Yeah. Right? And it's sort of like, he's back to being a nobody.