All right. How do you think Snap has the biggest side of growth if they just got Spotlight? I think it gets Spotlight stories more like feeds that really work. You know, this messaging, they are 13 to 22, like snapped in text is extraordinary.
They consume content. When I'm not doing that to the level that I think staff has permission to play. Yeah, no, I agree with you. That's Spotlight stuff is I think more than come up now than it's ever been.
Vayner Nation, how are you? I'm excited about this episode. I think we'll be able to double click into a very creative and strategic brain. I'm going to let Cody introduce himself and give you all some context and I'm going to poke and prod on some curiosities I have and I think it's going to be a pretty important podcast for a lot of people and you'll see why in a minute.
It's a subject matter I talk a lot about, which is things like 30 years ago nobody would believe that he, he is doing what he's doing for a living. You know, parents, we were taught like some of this stuff was not good and ends up being the best. And that has happened over time. It's happening right now with AI.
Everyone's scared it's and it's bad. It's going to be the best in a lot of ways and you'll have some bad. Like everything. There's some good and bad.
But Cody, appreciate you being on show, brother. Of course. Thank you for having me. So tell everyone a little bit about like who you are and what you do.
Yeah, so I'm Cody Conrad, also known as Clicks. I've been a, you know, performer for competitive professionally also entertainer ever since I was 14. I kind of got in the industry when I was 14, flew up, qualified for World cup also known, you know, one World Cup I qualified five times competed in the World cup and honestly just been playing competitive since then. I'm 18, but I'm also an entertainer and I do all that stuff.
So. So to take us back even prior to 14. So just to recap real quick, just wanna make sure everyone contextualize that is one of the great professional gamers in the space 14. 18 is last warriors been really doing this thing in Fortnite now there's going to a minute but the entertain and entertainer part is like what I wanna double click into because pun intended take me back further.
So when I wanna break down both the gaming and the entertainment part. When prior to 14, did you have a sense that you were good at gaming? Yeah. So I started playing video games Call of Duty when I was like five years old.
I like sneak in my brother's room. I had the whole documentary. I sneak in my brother's room, play Call of Duty and like I was like as a five year old I was pretty good, right? I was five and gears coming up, I catch on playing Call duty, gotta to CSGO, got some Minecraft since like around 10 years old.
And I was watching these guys, no New York house and all that. So looking up to them, I was like, I wanna be that when I'm like 18 and you know where I am now. So when I got announced, instantly played by my brother. The first game I ever played at one for my brother.
This was back in probably 12 years old and it was 16 to compete. So I was like, I was doing some fun, I got really good. And then when they announced World cup they said 13 year olds to compete. Right.
I actually was 13 at the time. So that got announced. I competed before living at this point in your life? With my dad in Connecticut.
Yeah, with my dad in Connecticut. So does dad like know that you're good at this point? I just said this story as well. So to me, you know, to get a computer I signed a contract with my dad to if he got me a computer I would have came back within like, like four months.
Either work with him or came back in general. I paid him back. I think it was like 1500 three weeks. I think just off to me doing my stuff when I was 13.
Meaning YouTube videos that got ad revenue. Honestly, one view warning, you know, it's a leader now. But back then, competing for money. Yeah, competing for money and all that.
Way better than my concept of YouTube ads. Yeah, yeah. Pops was focused on teaching the right thing, value money. Like heading up behind accepted, stepping unearned.
Have you started to realize that was like a great thing for him to do for you? Yeah, well now like sure, of course, buy for me. But you know, now it taught me all that stuff. What do you say, by the way?
Pops in the background? I'm like looking at him the whole time because I love that story. Because that's. I mean everyone listening to this podcast knows what I think about the pandemic that is entitlement.
I think there's very few parents, unfortunately, even though, believe it or not. Yeah, well, Scott, I grew up in the era where that was like the norm. Parents weren't just giving kids money, we fucking all did shit. So.
But he's executing that to the next generation, that's pretty powerful for all the baby boomers, their parents always fear things they can understand. So what I want to do is break the cycle. You know, growing up in an Italian, German families, you know, I wanted to break cycle. So that's when Cody came along and I said, you know, he's really enjoying this.
He's really enjoying this. When do you want to have a song that really is enjoys what he's doing? Having a lot of fun, playing with kids all over the United States, all over the world. Do you have a sense that there was like real lucrative things on the back?
Had that already hit your radar? Like there are pro gamers. This is like a business that was on your radar yet? Yeah, no clue.
You had no clue earlier on video games. Scott, don't rewrite history in this fucking podcast. I didn't have a clue. But this is what we did.
You know, I would watch him, you know, like I said, mini documentary that we have. I would go in his room and I'd watch him only for about two weeks, for about 10, 15 minutes, check out my emails, watch him play Fortnite. So I did, and he turned and he looked at me and he says, dad, if you buy me this really good gaming computer at best Buy, I get so good, you'd be so proud of me. I make so much money.
And I says, listen, let me think about this. I says, right now, you know, the funds aren't there, but let me think about this. And I'll be back in your room in 45 minutes. I came back in 45 minutes.
This is what I do. I write my contract. I'm a business guy. I says, I can write a contract.
What I like about this guy is you. So many parents overreacted to the past and to your point, you didn't want to close it down. But on the flip side, you didn't go to the extreme and just hand it. You created.
You kind of got the best of the old and new world. Love it. So then you just got the new computer and what, immediately, obviously it leveled up the whole sit. Yes, I got the new computer, qualified for World cup week two, which was guaranteed $50,000 for solos.
I think duos was first. And then I qualified for solos also, which was another $50,000 guaranteed if I were to go to New York. I went to New York to compete. I did bad in duos, but I didn't okay and solos.
I won like 160 grand total. And you were 13, 14, 14, 14 at this point. Yeah. 14.
And I was also signed to a gaming org. It's just became very real real fast. Right? Yeah.
Became very real. Yeah. I was gonna say real quick. In two weeks he made $1035 online.
I said you must be pretty good at the same. And then I said, well, your next step is you gotta get picked up at work. Yeah, of course. Signed up at 14 years old, making $1,500 a month.
Talking about the. You know, it's funny, I know a lot of gamers, professional gamers, people in the space, people that look the profile of, you know, the face crew. Well know a lot of characters. You've always been pretty consistent.
One of the things that really hit our radar viewers for like this concept like and even it was listening. Careful. You come out here like entertainer. Talk to me about that ism.
Is that happening before even gaming? Like did you see or how do you define being entertainer or. Right. Or even more fun for all the kids are listening and parents are listening.
Why are you saying that and what do you mean? Like where are you going? So how did you become an entertainer? Basically?
I just think it's very intriguing that you're saying I'm a gainer. And entertainment players, they just don't have the personality. Entertain people, live on stream. So I guess like I was like a toxic when I was younger.
I was really toxic. Right. I was like a toxic little kid was like shit talking, everybody dance now. I was like entertainment.
Right. So as I progressed you find, you know, I found new entertainment where it's like I know how to not stop talking to little kids nonstop. Entertain kids. Yeah.
Keep their attention. Which most players, you know, don't play multitasking. Like I resonate with that because I do a lot of public speaking. I'm public speaking like doing my keynote and equally paying attention to the audience.
Yeah. And adjusting even the content potentially based on the way they're reacting throughout. Exactly. It's kind of same thing with streaming.
Like what the chat is saying, seeing their bored of course change Honda, get them back attached. So you're saying I'm an entertainer from the standpoint of trying to educate people. Like hey, I'm not just good at playing the game. I'm also bringing another variable to the table.
And what you're doing is regulating masses. Because as you know Darren, I was like, I'm aware there's certain players who are just locked in and are just. It's almost like Andre Agassi versus Pete Sampras. Right.
If he was a Tennis comp. You know, Pete Sampras was just like straight down the line, vanilla piece of paper. But he was an epic tennis player and Axy was an epic tennis player that people came out to see because he was entertaining. Right, Right.
So I'd be like basically getting like 20 bonds while entertaining the chats. It's correlation really trying to. Yep. And so now what?
What are you thinking about right now? So now you know, I just signed to Vayner. Yeah. I'm still doing normal stuff, still competing a lot.
Kind of like myself now I go to Dallas for a competition. So I'm competing. But also when comp is going on, I'm doing like entertaining stuff. Entertaining streams.
I just stream in la. You might have seen it. Basically two girls cause a lot of drama. But you know, like, dramas is entertainment for other people.
You know. How do you find the balance of. When you say Dr. Good entertainment, how do you find the balance in your own mind?
How do you think about balancing things that are entertainment to keep it in that kind of, you know, think about the world right now. So political, red, blue. And I'm always like, how is it purple? So that it's like, you know, like that you find that middle.
Do you think about that? Like when you're thinking about doing entertainment that's gonna be interesting for people, you're trying to find a fine line where it's not at the detriment of others. Like, it's probably a tough thing to juggle. Well, I think I just do what I think is gonna be like, funny.
I guess I don't like, let it get, you know, too chaotic. Girls, sometimes that does happen. But if that happens, not other people, you know, in my head, like, I'm like, yo, this is fucking hilarious. But like in like their mind, it's like a real life, like, interaction.
But I'm just trying to get entertaining and the chat going crazy. It's three in the morning. It was. It was a blast.
But like after on TikTok, it was like 30 million views in like two days on my channels just off of like posting clips. And then like Bryce hall and Josh had them on their TikTok and like give us podcast. It was like good enter. But in my end, I'm just walking around when they're being frugal.
Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting. I think a lot about where the world's at at this point and like not giving kids the freedom to like live youthful energy is like a super challenge. Like when me and my friends and Everybody who's listening, who's 35, 45, 55, 65, 75.
When we were goofing, when we were 15 to 18, we just lost an ether. But now when you guys are goofing, it's just documented. Yeah, very different mindset. That's the beauty of this industry.
To do whatever and make, you know, people entertain. You also make money off of doing what you want to do. Of course, Andrew Dice Clay was entertaining. People thought it was like, you remember that era, like, that was like, whoa, like too hard in 1988.
Now that's mundane. Tiktoks the world just continues to evolve. How do you think about business? You know, pops talking to the background business guy so you get some at DNA.
Like, how do you think about business? Like, how do you think about what are deals that are right for you? Ambitions, things you want to do in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. I mean, right now, not really.
You know, obviously you have to be focused on the business part. That's why, you know, it's not a vayner. But back then, Feldy still is my manager. He was, you know, getting all the deals.
So I managed to do the full entertainment stuff and kind of let the back on people the deals and like the numbers that I feel are right for a deal. It's kind of like something, you know what I'm saying? Like, he knows what's you trust the people focus on is unless you like completely hate the product or it's corny, you'll play, but you trust the people, understand the business. Like, I mean, for a while he knows, like I know what he's willing to do, of course, what's up his alley.
And 90 of the time you got that locked in stream and make the content and like let the Internet do the rest of the work and make it go viral. And then it's like, if you want to do anything outside of it, all that stuff, let's do it. Let's just get it out there and then just do what you do best. And like, yeah, I think for all people that are listening that manage talent, I always say, like, if you're gonna be great at it, you're gonna have 90% of it figured out.
Like 90 of the time you're like, he's gonna do it, she's not gonna do it, she's gonna do it, she's not gonna do it. What you have to be is make sure that you have ego as a manager or someone that reps and think you're 100, right. You have to have the humility to be like, you know what I mean? Pretty sure he's not gonna do this, but I'm gonna put in front of him in front of her and let them decide.
And I think that's like when those partnerships go best, they're saving you time by not bringing you stuff. But he's also about humility. We've got the humility to put stuff in front of you where we're not exactly sure. And plus your temperament changes, especially when you're young.
I think the most interesting part about. I see it in all of our facets gaming, sports. I see it in all of marketing. See it in influencer marketing.
We all know this, we've lived it. A lot of you are living it. A lot of you are now in this room and listening in the 20, 30, 40 year old range man, who you are at 15 versus who you are at 17 versus who you are at 19 versus who you are at 23 and 27, you're like different humans in such quick windows. And that's also something that needs to be on strategy of what you will and won't.
What are your ambitions on the non entertaining part, meaning do you as an athlete, as like a player, as a skill, are you overly crazy about getting better? Are you chilling on that? Like a game you're saying and then like even think. Let me ask the direct question I'm curious about.
Has it run through your mind that there'll be another game, right? A Call of Duty, a Fortnite that comes out in the next 24, 36 months that captures the gaming world's attention. Will you have a lot of thirst? So let's play it out two years now you're making more money, there's more good stuff happening, you're more famous.
Do you intuitively feel that you're gonna put your head down like 14, 15 year old you and have the bandwidth and the time to be great? Or do you think you like every other athlete? Like we see this in all other sports. You like are obsessed to get to be 17, the best tennis player in the world and then you're super famous and doing cool shit.
And all of it's hard because there's some kid from you to SL. Like you feel the 13 year olds and 14 year olds who do nothing but try to get great. Like what's your sense? I mean in two years I think I would want to play another game like when I kind of like my hot spot, you know what I'm saying?
Is that game keep on doing that? Yes. Until the game runs out? Yes.
Am I letting myself get bad? I'm also gonna do entertainment spot on the side just in case before I dies. I saw that entertainment aspect to go on about. I don't think I would ever play another game.
Which really what you're trying to say is like my 13 year old pronunciation. But now it's like I've been a pro for four years. I'm gonna be 20 if the game dies. Might as well, you know, take like an acting route or something.
Like I wanna be just entertainment. That was that question. I think that's super interesting. I think there's like clearly like two, three paths there.
I get it. But it's interesting though, right? The CS go natural talent was able and work like translated to some degree to Fortnite. Right.
Do you feel like the skill they have a Fortnite could translate the lasers and lightning if that became the thing? I think 100. I mean I think games genetics. I'm gonna be honest, I've been playing since I was like 5 years old, so I had lots to go into it.
Basketball genetics test is genetics practice 10 hours a day. I'm practicing somehow, you know. Yeah, you're talking about. Exactly, exactly.
So it's like would I want to become professionally? No. It would have to be a perfect scenario for me to go back, put 10 hours a day into that while, you know, streaming it and the game's blowing up and everything's going good. I'm coming professional 100%.
Let's do it on something I think bring value to the audience. Social networks. Your current take on like the best apps and the not best apps. Oh, that's a good one.
Good. Best apps in my opinion. Yep. Twitter.
Yep. Oh, this is hard. Twitter. Twitter 100%.
I'm on that app all the time. Instagram. I think it's terrible now. I think you know what they did with the whole entire like paying for like views.
And I hate the verified aspect. For me it's like logistics. Now that everyone has a verified account, it doesn't let me quickly on I see if there's an account like that's verified that I might need to be intrigued or look at you like it's made it lost. I love it as a business model.
I oh, I got videos on. I need the team to dig up six, seven years and I'm like, these social networks are gonna figure this out and charge 10 bucks a month. It's just a business. It makes sense.
I mean they're making bank off doing it. But across, you know, I mean, an Instagram general picture now it's like to get on a bigger. Like when you post, it doesn't actually pop up on the feed. No, that's before.
No, no, they'll still, like, you can still. Plenty people are getting there. The problem with Instagram is organic reaches down because so much attention has gone to TikTok during a time where more, more content is being produced on screen than ever. But the attention's not at the height that it was because there's an enormous amount of under 35 that now has given a ton of attention to shorts and TikTok.
So there's strong demand. Are you going. So that sits around shorts. YouTube Shorts I think are amazing.
I recently started like shorts and you know, they. A whole nother channel. Shorts are crazy. Tik Tok I think is amazing.
Like, definitely the best way to promote anything that you got going on. Do you think that if the US bans TikTok that everyone under 22 will revolt and like burn houses down? I don't think that's gonna happen. I just.
I can't see a world where they're actually banned. How many careers they would fall off of like that. In general, some people use like TikTok for business in general, it's like make more money for like when they just go to Instagram and YouTube. I know that.
So I think you are right. I think. Do you think 17 years old burn their school down kind of thing? LinkedIn?
Are you like. What the fuck are you talking about, Gary? I don't know what you said. I totally get.
Talk to me about Snap. Snapchat. I don't use Snapchat. No, no, I'm very fun on it.
Not even the message. No. You're mad at that. I don't give a shit.
Oh, you give shit. Snap has the biggest upside of growth if they just got Spotlight. They need to get Spotlight and stories more like the feeds that really work because they got, you know, this messaging they own, right? Like 13 to 22.
Like, oh, it's not the amount of people you snap them. Text is extraordinary, but they consume content. People are not doing that to the level that I think Snap has permission to play. Yeah, no, I agree with you.
That's why I say I think more than come up now than it's ever been. But, you know, I don't post anything. Facebook, dude, I haven't downloaded that app in my whole life. Never download that.
No, that was always like, your dad's thing. Yeah, that's older generation thing. 100%. Anything else?
Do you know what Clapper is? Clapper? No. It's like a complete clone of TikTok that I think is like sitting in the cut and if like if TikTok gets banned, we may explode anything.
What about. I mean Twitch is a different thing where it's gonna be Twitch. I think it's massive. I mean what are your thoughts on the recent stuff going on?
You know, like some of the things that people can and can't do, like kick coming out now, you know they're cutting half 36% of their whole entire company. Yeah. I think that's just natural big business. But I don't think that you, I don't think you as a creator feel any effects of that reality.
Companies worry about their stock price, so do things. But I don't think you're gonna feel there's still plenty of people there doing shit to me, I'm platform agnostic. If Twitch And TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube disappear tomorrow. Banned.
Banned. I'm like, like I gotta go be better at Twitter and whatever's left. Like people are gonna go wherever they're gonna go. Right.
Like it's the same right now with TV and connect the TV and streaming services. Like, like all these companies wasting money on running commercials on regular TV when everyone's attention on social and scabby. I agree with that and that's why I think influencers and entertainers like yourself continue to get market share because you have now built up enough awareness that you're agnostic if YouTube and, and Twitter and Twitch go away or like you have the ability to literally the next day because everyone, you understand it's banned for everyone. It's like you got banned from.
It's banned from every reason you go to notion it has to do with reading newspapers. Yeah. You just new things form and so I think that's always going on. What about from you from a content creator standpoint who you think is doing a good job right now?
Yeah. Or even historically like things that you've looked at that you're like oh that person. Like things that you. And not even maybe like what entertains you.
Maybe people that have. You've learned from the Face clan. Of course. I think you know Kaisen that he's a great example of like doing the impossible.
Like nobody ever thought someone would get 300,000 subscribers while you know, entertaining 100,000 view at once non stop. He was 20% live stream for 30 days and seeing like him, his mom calling him hitting 100,000 subs was like inspirational for me, even though I'm also doing good as well. Like a different step of like your parents calling you crying and being like, wow, like he's doing a different example. Like I want to become where after Fortnite do like the entertainment aspect what he's doing.
You know, it's so funny you say that. This is what I want a lot of parents to hear. Like a lot of these kids are doing the same things that you grew up with. You always hear about stand up comics saying things like in documentaries like Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle be like.
But when Eddie Murphy did Raw, I knew that I had to go up another step. Or when like players today, like talk about like when Alan Iverson was that quick, I knew that. Like, I just wish people knew how much being a streaming entertainer or a gamer was a talent and a skill that has. Requires incredible amounts of work.
And to pops your point, putting a bow on this whole combo, the parents that are most open to, I mean like literally every parent that has an 11 year old right now, 84% of them are telling their parents they want to be an influencer, a creator, a YouTuber, a gamer. And you know, for many parents, they struggle with believing that can be true. And it's only going to be more true five years from now, 10 years from now. When you were four, when I wrote that.
So if you read that book, the hypothesis is like, this YouTube thing is new and I think people are gonna make a living on it. If you go to Amazon and look at the first reviews of that book that I wrote in 2009, everyone's reviews of my book were like, one star. You're full of shit. What are you talking.
Nobody's making $100,000 a year on YouTube. Think about how outlandish that is now there's people do that in a day. So the world's gonna continue to move. It needs people like you showing the way.
And I appreciate doing that. I appreciate you for having me. Thanks for being on course. Awesome.
Cool.