Is It Ever OK to Promote Fossil Fuels? Ep186: Rory Sutherland

How can behavioural science and psychology be leveraged to drive meaningful change around climate action? What unintended consequences might arise from heavy-handed government mandates versus more subtle interventions? And in the face of the climate crisis, is it ethical to actively promote the use of fossil fuels? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael welcomes Ogilvy UK Vice-chair Rory Sutherland to explore the role of psychology and behavioural science in tackling the climate challenge. Rather than relying solely on policy, regulations, and technological solutions, Sutherland argues that understanding human decision-making and tapping into our innate psychological drivers could be key to catalyzing widespread behaviour change. From the power of "satisficing" and "psycho-physics" to the importance of signaling and subconscious hacking, Sutherland delves into the hidden forces that shape our environmental choices - both for better and for worse. The conversation also grapples with the ethical quandary of whether actively promoting fossil fuels is justifiable, even as a "messy intermediate phase" in the transition to clean energy. This episode challenges viewers to think beyond the conventional approaches to climate action and consider how a deeper understanding of human psychology could unlock more effective, and even counterintuitive, solutions. For those interested in data on which advertising groups continue to work with fossil fuel companies, please see: https://cleancreatives.org/f-list. Asked about WPP (Ogilvy’s Parent Company) and Ogilvy’s inclusion on the F-list, WPP commented: "WPP and Ogilvy have not commented publicly on the accuracy or validity of the F-List’s research. However, several of the contracts named on the F-List are wrongly attributed to Ogilvy. They are in fact relationships with an entirely different agency, OGR, formerly known as Ogilvy Government Relations. Other than ownership by WPP, OGR has had no connection to Ogilvy since 2011 and they rebranded last year to avoid historical confusion." Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links: Rory’s book, AlchemyOgilvy UK: https://www.ogilvy.com/ukHow Lily Cole Models Climate Solutions | Ep161 How To Win The Climate Argument | Ep172: John Marshall