Is It 'Woke' To Care About Poor Kids? (Ft. Prof Dr Ger Graus) episode artwork

EPISODE · Jun 10, 2025 · 1H 1M

Is It 'Woke' To Care About Poor Kids? (Ft. Prof Dr Ger Graus)

from This Isn’t Working · host Tanya de Grunwald

Would scrapping DEI really mean a 'return to meritocracy' - or is there no such thing? What will happen if employers, educators and politicians stop all attempts to level the playing field, and instead do nothing to adjust for disadvantage? In this illuminating episode, Professor Dr Ger Graus shares his insights about advantage, ambition and opportunity learned over the course of his long career in education and research. He also explains why he thinks the loudest voices on education and employment policies (including DEI - diversity, equity and inclusion) are often the least qualified to offer helpful solutions. In this conversation, we ask: WHAT DO CRITICS OF DEI FAIL TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE NATURE OF AMBITION AND OPPORTUNITY and the importance of representation, role models, confidence, practice and polish as predictors of achievement and career success? IS IT FAIR TO CLAIM THAT DEI IS ‘SOCIAL ENGINEERING’ when the advantage of class – particularly private school – is surely the most brazen example of social engineering ever, and we seem to have accepted that as a fact of life? WHAT CAN EMPLOYERS LEARN FROM FOUR-YEAR-OLDS? From his experience as global education director at Kidzania – an immersive theme park for children aged four to 14, funded by corporate sponsors who see the value of investing in experiential learning – Ger helps us to join the dots from young children to the world of work. Did you know girls choose activities below their age range - and kids from the poorest areas show no interest in activities which are alien from their daily life? What does this mean for the talent pipelines that employers see when these kids reach working age? WHERE DID EMPLOYERS START TO LOSE PUBLIC SUPPORT? If people are broadly supportive of efforts to improve social mobility, where did attempts to improve access for disadvantaged young people start to create suspicion, division and resentment? WHAT ARE THE RISKS OF POLITICIANS AND EMPLOYERS ADOPTING A ‘DO NOTHING’ APPROACH TO SOCIAL DISADVANTAGE? Is there a risk of civil unrest? Are economics really the best motivator for change? Or do we need to ask bigger questions, like: ‘What sort of country do we want to live in?’ WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR EMPLOYERS TO WORK WITH SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES? Are teachers and civil servants at the Department for Education too suspicious of private sector employers’ attempts to collaborate?  HOW ARE OTHER COUNTRIES DOING THINGS BETTER THAN THE UK? What can we learn from educational institutions and government policies around the world - and how might employers benefit from more long-term, joined-up approach to policy-making? Enjoy the episode... Buy Ger Graus' new book: Through A Different Lens: Lessons From A Life In Education https://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-Different-Lens-Lessons-Education/dp/1032896434

Would scrapping DEI really mean a 'return to meritocracy' - or is there no such thing? What will happen if employers, educators and politicians stop all attempts to level the playing field, and instead do nothing to adjust for disadvantage? In this illuminating episode, Professor Dr Ger Graus shares his insights about advantage, ambition and opportunity learned over the course of his long career in education and research. He also explains why he thinks the loudest voices on education and employment policies (including DEI - diversity, equity and inclusion) are often the least qualified to offer helpful solutions. In this conversation, we ask: WHAT DO CRITICS OF DEI FAIL TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE NATURE OF AMBITION AND OPPORTUNITY and the importance of representation, role models, confidence, practice and polish as predictors of achievement and career success? IS IT FAIR TO CLAIM THAT DEI IS ‘SOCIAL ENGINEERING’ when the advantage of class – particularly private school – is surely the most brazen example of social engineering ever, and we seem to have accepted that as a fact of life? WHAT CAN EMPLOYERS LEARN FROM FOUR-YEAR-OLDS? From his experience as global education director at Kidzania – an immersive theme park for children aged four to 14, funded by corporate sponsors who see the value of investing in experiential learning – Ger helps us to join the dots from young children to the world of work. Did you know girls choose activities below their age range - and kids from the poorest areas show no interest in activities which are alien from their daily life? What does this mean for the talent pipelines that employers see when these kids reach working age? WHERE DID EMPLOYERS START TO LOSE PUBLIC SUPPORT? If people are broadly supportive of efforts to improve social mobility, where did attempts to improve access for disadvantaged young people start to create suspicion, division and resentment? WHAT ARE THE RISKS OF POLITICIANS AND EMPLOYERS ADOPTING A ‘DO NOTHING’ APPROACH TO SOCIAL DISADVANTAGE? Is there a risk of civil unrest? Are economics really the best motivator for change? Or do we need to ask bigger questions, like: ‘What sort of country do we want to live in?’ WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR EMPLOYERS TO WORK WITH SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES? Are teachers and civil servants at the Department for Education too suspicious of private sector employers’ attempts to collaborate?  HOW ARE OTHER COUNTRIES DOING THINGS BETTER THAN THE UK? What can we learn from educational institutions and government policies around the world - and how might employers benefit from more long-term, joined-up approach to policy-making? Enjoy the episode... Buy Ger Graus' new book:Through A Different Lens: Lessons From A Life In Education https://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-Different-Lens-Lessons-Education/dp/1032896434

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Is It 'Woke' To Care About Poor Kids? (Ft. Prof Dr Ger Graus)

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Would scrapping DEI really mean a 'return to meritocracy' - or is there no such thing? What will happen if employers, educators and politicians stop all attempts to level the playing field, and instead do nothing to adjust for disadvantage? In this...

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