What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper. We call her. Hayley Sacks, AK Mrs.
Dow Jones, welcome to call her Daddy. Thank you so much for having me. Daddy Gang, listen up, okay? Dow Jones is a zolennial finance expert and makes all things money related easier to understand through her content.
And listen, I have never really spoken about how to manage your finances on call her daddy because, you know, we were talking about sucking and fucking and doing all the things before. And now that we have progressed, Daddy Gang, I'm like, you know what? This is a full stop shop. I wanna help you with anything and everything I can, especially through connections in the industry.
I'm like, Dow Jones is coming on and we're gonna discuss things that you should know about money but that things that you were probably never taught. So, Dow, let's talk for a second. My Dow girl. Is it normal to be stressed about our finances in our 20s and our 30s?
Alex, it is normal to be stressed about your finances in your 40s and in your 50s. Like, we are never taught about this in school. Most of our parents don't teach us. So how could you not be stressed?
It's so confusing and we have no playbook. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And I think like we really get stressed because the things that we were never taught, we, why would we know anything about? Why would we feel comfortable about it?
So I wanna know from you because you're obviously the expert online, but like did you always have it together? Talk to me about your spending habits when you were in your early 20s? What was going on? So I feel like I am, I am you.
I feel you like this, I was in my 20s and I had no clue what was going on. And I just felt like an idiot. And I felt really stupid that I didn't understand my finances. And so I avoided them at all costs and said so recklessly had no interest in burning or save or retirement.
I was like, go on, you wanna get no food for breakfast? Let's do this. Let's get a spray tan before we go to Barry's. I was spending, every time I left my apartment, it was like another $100 down the drain and I could not afford that.
I love the honesty too because I remember when I got out of college, I was really making no money. And then my first job, I just living in New York City, it was really difficult. I got like my big first job. I was making $40,000 and I fell on top of the world.
And then after I paid rent, which my rent was, I'm pretty sure I live with three girls and my rent was $1,200. And I was like, that's more than my paycheck. Like how do I survive? Like what do I do?
And it was really difficult to manage living and being happy with then also trying to like actually, I was like, how do I even save? Like I can't save, there's nothing that I can save cause I don't even have enough money to pay my rent. So I just want you guys to know that like Dow Jones and I are sitting here being like, we were also in a place at one point where we were like either overspending or just like out of loss and stressed. What was the moment that you finally took control of your finances and turned it around?
Well, first of all, like how crazy is it? We're expected to be financially capable and no one teaches us. And we look at people, you know, every time you turn on the news, it's Bill Gates, it's Warren Buffett, it's Oprah, like these highly gender, these really like rich, powerful people, but no one who is successful and good with money was born that way. We're all born the same, not knowing anything.
And we all have to learn, we're all starting from zero. So I want Nadia gang, if you're listening to this, for you to realize that you're not anywhere soft, you're not less smart than anyone else, you're not less capable than anyone else, you just have never been taught. And that's what this episode is all about. We're gonna give you that foundation.
Yeah. And I love that too, Dow Jones, because it's like, when I think back to college or high school, I can imagine all my girlies are like, babe, I was a fucking marketing major or like, I was in finance school or like, I was in communications or I was in health. And it's like, even unless you were in finance and even still then specifically taxes and saving and what is, like, how are you going about saving your money and spending your money? Like, no one taught us that.
Instead we're learning about like, you know, the fucking world wars. Right? The irony in the end, exactly. So I think that is a good start to just everyone calm down.
If you're like, I don't know if I can even listen to this because I haven't even looked at my bank account because I'm too scared and it gives me anxiety. We hear you and we're here for you. So let's talk about your personal journey and then we'll get more into like going more specific for daddy gang. What was the moment for you that you were like, okay, I gotta get my financial shit together?
Okay, so the moment for me was I got my first full-time job when I was 25 because I'd been working in entertainment and I was working at a Pilates studio and I was a babysitter for a kid named Winthrop and I was just like doing the damn thing in New York City, whatever. But I finally got this full-time job and I was so excited. And the first day they had the audacity to ask me about a 401k and which healthcare plan I would like to choose. And I politely nodded, maybe pretended I'd go to the restroom and then went home and tried to learn.
And I was like, what is, I don't, none of this is making sense. So I was really intimidated. But then when I actually looked into it further, I was like, okay, I believe in catfish because this is not that hard to learn. Like that's what I'm trying to get across.
It's like the fear and the shame and the anxiety. That's real, we'll deal with that. But the actual meat and potatoes of what you have to do to have a good relationship with money, it's not that complicated. And trust me, I can do it, you can do it.
I fucking love it because I was in the same position. I remember when I walked into my first real job and they were like, okay, and like the 401k and like the healthcare plan. And I literally was just like giving a bright smile and I in my head was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm gonna call my dad after this.
I'm like, it's just, it's embarrassing. But again, why would it be embarrassing daddy gang? We never learned about this. I never had one class that explained any of this to me.
Well, today we're gonna do it. Okay, so now, can you break it down for us? What are the four basic money tips every adult should know but are never taught in school? Okay, so the first tip that I want to give you is the 50 30 20 rule.
And what this rule says is that your after tax income is gonna be divided into three parts. You're gonna spend 50% of it on needs, 30% on wants and 20% on future you. And this ratio is going to change your damn life because most of us, we got our first paychecks and we're just like, here's this money in the bank and we have no idea when our friend says, hey, want to share an apartment? If we can afford that or not, we don't know how much we can contribute to our Roth IRA.
We don't know how much we can put towards our dad. It's all, you know, for it. And there's no rules. And so the 50 30 20 rule is going to solve that for you.
These are the guard rails that you're going to use to live your financial life by. And it doesn't matter how much you make, these rules will apply. That's actually so helpful. I appreciate that because again, we don't, everyone can be different, but giving someone especially like right out of college like this rule, it can allow you to put on paper.
Like, can you talk us through even like a pretty specific quick example of how to implement this rule for someone? Yes, say that you're making $1,000 a month after taxes. So you're gonna put 50, $500, 50% of it towards your needs. So that's gonna be your groceries.
That's, and I'm hoping you're going to like a trader Joe's. I'm not talking about like fancy mustards and we're getting like, you know, prepared dishes. Like this is, but what you think, these are just what you need, utilities, internet, laundry detergent, rent, the things that you need to survive, 50%, $500. Then we're gonna put $300 towards our wants, 30%.
So that could be going out with your friends, sushi, manicure, balayage, threading, whatever your poison is. You wanna get a lip flip, get a lip flip. That's what the month is for, do your damn thing. But it's great because a lot of times when people make up, sorry, this occurs to a budget, when they make a budget, they get so detailed that Alex, they're like, okay, I'm allowed to spend $30 a month on the movies.
And it's like, what if you don't wanna go to the movies at month? You know what I mean? We can just have this lump sum and be like, pretty, it's July, here's what I wanna spend it on. That's so helpful too.
I get what you're saying. I remember I used to do that where I really would like, have like a certain amount and most of it I spent on my hair. And it was like all of my, like my wants, like I would spend on my hair. And then there would be some months where like, I didn't need to get my hair done.
So then I was like, oh my God, I'm rich, like what do I wanna spend it on? So it's like, I agree with you. Like not being so crazy about what you're actually gonna spend on just have the lump sum, allows it to be easier for you. Totally.
And then the most, the part that I love the most is that 20%, which is towards future you. So in this case, that would be $200. And here's the thing, Donny Gang. The key to growing wealth, it's not about how much you make, it's about how much you keep.
So you could be making $50,000 a year or you could be making $500,000 a year. But if you don't have money left over at the end of every month to put towards your financial goals, then you're never going to make progress in your financial life. So that 20% ratio, in this case, that $200, That's what we're gonna put towards your financial goals. What if someone's listening to this right now and is like, oh my God, Hailey, I just looked at the breakdown of how I spend my money and holy shit, I am way off on what you're saying compared to what I should be doing and what I'm currently doing.
I would tell them that I was exactly the same way and that it took me nine months to get my ratios into the 50, 30, 20 ratios. And sometimes you have to make drastic changes. Sometimes you realize, shoot, I'm spending 70% of my income on rent or I have a 0% going to future you. And so you have to adjust these things.
But the financial journey is one that we're gonna be on forever. Money is an ongoing relationship. And so I would just say, take a deep breath, don't rush it, let's work on making this month better than last month and we're gonna make next month better than this month and step by step together, we're gonna get your ratios to the point that they need to be. Yeah, I love that.
It's like daddy gang, don't stress, you can start today. You can literally start today. And if anything is exciting too, you're gonna be able to watch the difference once you implement without Jones is talking about, you're gonna feel immediately better. Like, wow, this month was, it will inevitably be better if you start following this rule.
When I started, I was like, I was very confused by this. And so I made something called the money book, which you can put last month spending into income bank statements. And it breaks down for you what your ratios are as a last month. And then it tells you for next month what the goal is.
So, and you can keep using it every month as you get closer and closer, but you don't have to do the math yourself. All you have to do is put in how much you're making, what your credit card purchases were, was it a need? And it will tell you exactly what you need to change. And that is on finance.school.com and we'll give a code at the end of this.
Wait, that's amazing. I agree, because I could see some people being like, I don't wanna sit down with a pen and paper and do this. Don't worry, you don't have to. Okay, let's talk to us about your second tip.
What is an emergency fund? Okay, so your emergency fund, Alex, is financial plan B. This is your fucking money. This is your whoops money.
This is the financial safety net. This is your comfort blanket. This is the money that every person needs in order to leave situations that are not serving them or situations that surprise us and put us in positions of financial stress. So that could be a car accident.
That could be losing your job. That could be being a toxic job. That could be moving in with a guy who you end up, you know, it ends up being very toxic with, oh no, I need to have a down payment for a new apartment so I can get out of this situation. And a lot of us get stuck because we don't have the funds to move forward.
And that's why the first step in your financial journey, the first thing that I want you to do with that 20% that we talked about, the 50, 30, 20, your first financial goal is you're gonna save a three month emergency fund, which is three months of bare-bones expenses and you're gonna put it into a high yield savings account, which is like a regular savings account, except it gives you back more money. I appreciate you bringing this up because I, again, I think when I look back to myself living in New York City, I couldn't even fathom saving because I just really was like living a little bit above my means, living in New York City and I wasn't making enough money to really, but all of a sudden when I started to put even a tiny bit away that I was able to do, then all of a sudden gets exciting because you can start to see you're saving. You actually can have a future of not just having to live day by day, looking at your bank account and trying to figure out, can I pay this month's rent because you slowly are chipping away at another fund that you don't see every day, daddy gang. And then when you need it, like you said, if you lose your job, you can be so much better in a better position than if you're spending that extra 20% on your lifestyle.
And I think it's like, I get it's hard, especially in our twenties, we wanna have fun, we wanna get to rings, we wanna go, but it's like be smart because for the future, you're in a better position. How much money should be though in our emergency fund? So a starter emergency fund is gonna be three months of bare-bone expenses. So that is really just when we talk about those needs and that 50%, that's what it should be.
We're not budgeting to go to the bad money concert or buy a new boutique about, we're really just putting money away for, if we're at rock bottom, this will let us survive for three months. And I'm just gonna say one more time, you put this in a high yield savings account, which will be at a separate place from your regular bank, a separate bank, you're gonna open it up, because I don't want you to see your emergency fund every single time that you open your banking app. This should be money that you forget about, but gives you peace of mind. And it will just be growing because you have that high yield, the high yield savings account, but you don't need to see it every day, just know that it's there.
Do you think that if people see it every day, they're more likely to take things out of it? Yes, I think that we could be like, it's a fashion emergency fund. And so, you know, like, there's so many, we think about there's a lot of emergencies, like we can really validate a lot. So, I get what you're saying, I remember I had my savings accounts in my same as banking checking and like, I remember so many times in New York, I'd be like, I need to have been the savings.
And it's like, no, you don't need to do that to go to, no, but you really don't. Like you don't find a guy that will buy you a fucking dinner. Okay, I think that's awesome. It's very important house to also remind people of that, to go on dates and make sure that the man pays.
Because there is a wage. Love. And exactly, thank you. Also, when you're saying go and get like a high-yield savings account, like, is that literally can someone walk into a bank?
And that's just what they ask for. No, we're going to talk about this, because a lot of times my audience, the Dow Jonesy, which hopefully everyone is in now, they will get very paralyzed at this point. Because it feels like a decision when you open your high-yield savings account, that there's a right or wrong answer to. But it's sort of, the high-yield savings accounts are all competing with each other for your business.
So, all you have to do is Google, that's high-yield savings accounts, 2023. And there are websites that will list and rank them for you. And you're just looking for one that is FDIC-insured, which means that, you know, anything happens to the bank, you're going to get your money back. And that has no account minimums and no monthly fees.
And you don't need, this should take 10 minutes to set up. You don't need to overthink it. And then the other thing that I really want you to do is to automate a deposit from your checking account to your high-yield savings account every month. Because I don't know about you, but I can't be trusted.
I need AI to do my finances for me. Like, please, Jesus, take the wheel. I do not, I, like, I need to be in the cloud. I, if I'm going to reach a financial goal, it's like, you know, someone else, then turn out, we'll have to do it for me.
I agree. I think it's so painful, especially, like, when you're at that point where you're really trying to build your savings, you're also like, oh, but like, maybe if I don't put it in this month, because like, I really want to, again, go to the fucking Bad Bunny concert. No, you can go and, again, find a date or watch it online and go another year. But like, do not put into your savings.
And I agree with you by doing automated. It allows you to not have to think about it. And it kind of takes you out of being in control of the monthly decision where you commit to it. And it just does it for you.
And you almost forget about it. And it's like a nice tree at some point. When you do need to go into that, you're good to go. Because willpower is finite.
Like, we all run out of, like, I wake up every day. I'm like, well, I'm going to run a marathon. I'm only drinking green juice. Like, I'm writing my novel today.
I'm going to like, learn Spanish. Like, and then by 3 p.m. It's like, where's the cookie, where's the martini? I need a nap.
So, you know, mourning me would definitely be able to put her money in her high-yoltsig as a kind of every month. But it might be after a new me who's in charge of the decision. After you save that emergency fund, you got that three months of bare-bones expenses in your high-yolts savings account, you've automated that. The next thing that you're going to use that 20% from from that 50-30-20 rule towards future you is to pay off your high-interest rate debt.
Because it is very expensive to have high-interest rate debt. Whether you, a high-interest rate debt is any debt that is above 7%. So credit cards are usually 15% or higher. If you don't pay back your binot pay leader, it could sometimes be 30%.
So we really want to make our next goal, paying off that high-interest rate debt. That is step two. That is our second financial goal. Do not pass go.
That is it. But if your debt is under 7%, that is considered low-interest rate debt. And I want you to just continue paying the minimum on it. How do you even know?
Is it like, what is the interest rate on the debt? Okay, so I have something called a free debt payoff planner. And what I want everyone to do is to go download it and you're going on financeaschool.com slash free. And I'm going to need you to log in to all of your debt portals via your credit card company, your student loan, whatever it is, and you're going on that portal, it'll tell you what the interest rate is, the APR, and then it will also tell you the minimum amount that you're going to pay off monthly.
Amazing. And you're going to put it all in that. In that debt payoff planner. And it will organize it for you, from highest to lowest interest rate, because the best way to pay off your debt is by putting your money towards the highest interest rate debt first.
A lot of people think, oh, I can put a little bit towards this one and that one, whatever, but it's like, no, pay the minimum on all of them and start by focusing on the highest one. And then we're going to work our way down. Got it. It's helpful.
So daddy gang, if you're looking at it, yes, if you have something that's above the 7%, you want to get that done faster or else you're owing more on that, whereas the lower end one, you can wait more on that. And we can slowly get to that. But it's like, if you're something that's 30% interest rate, we got to get it done, girls. Okay?
So we got to get that done. So student loans, are they typically a great example for this rule or no? Absolutely. Well, I mean, it really depends on your student loans, but I would say most student loans are under 7%.
And most people think that they rush to pay off these loans, right? Like it's such a big thing. They just want to be able to scream, be like, ring a bell and run around. And we're sure it says, I'm debt free.
And they think that that is what it means to be financially savvy. But I want to reframe the daddy gang spanking because 7% is the average return that we can expect from the stock market with inflation. So if you aggressively, so you pay your paying your minimum on your low interest rate debt and then you're putting extra money also to pay off that debt even quicker, why not put that extra money into the stock market where you're going to be getting a higher return than 7%. So instead of you're going to be making, you can make more money investing than you would be saving by paying off your debt.
Amazing. That makes so much sense. So let's talk about your fourth and final tip. The fourth tip is to really work on your money mindset because here's the thing.
There is a cognitive bias called the ostrich effect that causes people to avoid information that they might perceive as negative. So ostriches, not only can they run faster than any other two-legged animal, but they also bury their heads in the sand when they sense that danger is coming. They don't fight it, they don't try and figure out a solution. They're just like, okay, peace, I'm going to shove my head in the sand and I'll be here till whenever.
So I got hungry. You know? And personally, I definitely did that with my finances. It's a known thing that happens in personal finance.
That's how common it is. So right now you're feeling overwhelmed by this information. That's totally normal. And all that we need to do is take the first step.
I agree. It's like, dying, we need to know where we are. We need to know where we're starting from in order to improve our finances. We can't just ignore, I get it so intimidating and scary.
And it's something that you don't talk about on dates. You don't even talk about with friends asking them about how much money they make is awkward. It's a very sensitive topic because there are so many things that come along with it aside from just feeling shame that you don't know what you're talking about. Then there's the whole other aspect of feeling shame because you're comparing yourself to other people, maybe who are around you, making more money or less money or whatever it is.
There's parents, Alex, like, you know that most of our money biases are ingrained by second grade? Second grade. It is so deep in us. And I have that so big time.
I don't know what your first memory of money. I would say comparing myself to my friends growing up, like we're much wealthier than my family. All my friends had second homes and all my friends were able to have cars and my parents couldn't afford that. And so I just always remember feeling nervous to ask my parents for money if I wanted to go to the movies or something.
And I remember when my dad lost his job and it was super tight. And my parents were like, you cannot ask us for $20. So I just remember the concept of a dollar being really scary to even ask for because I knew how precious it was in order to keep my house when I was younger for my parents not have to move us in, like the outsized. So I think like for me money was something that we didn't really talk about, but when we talked about it, it was really, really stressful and like a pain point in the conversation.
Whereas my parents, my parents would just be like, giving them $100 to go to the mall. And sometimes my friends would like pay for me. So like, it was like this shameful thing of like, I don't have what my friends have and always wishing that I could have something like them. Yeah, it was shameful.
And it was never about using money to like live the life that you wanted. Money felt scary, money felt tense. And how do you think that's affected you now? I think when I got out of college, like I kind of talked about, I was so intimidated by not feeling like I would be able to make enough to live a lifestyle I wanted.
And so I really just, I mean, to be honest, I just started fucking dating rich guys. And instead of focusing on my own career, I was too afraid to live in the point where I wouldn't have enough. So I would have to like really rough it and like not have enough to potentially live in the city at one point. And so I dated a guy that allowed me to live in New York City at one point.
So it was like, I was like probably compromising my morals in order to have a financial status that I wanted to live at. But it was like, it actually set me back farther because I wasn't just starting from everyone gets out of college and unless you're like a Nepo baby or you have rich parents, like I had zero dollars in my bank account and my dad put $300 in it and was like, okay, that's my gift to you. And then I was like, what am I doing? So I had to start with like basically nothing and I had to get a job.
And it was really scary. And I think I was like kind of depressed when I had my first job because I was like, how am I ever going to make more money than this? Like this is so fucking depressing. This is so scary.
This is like, I want to be wealthy. I want to be rich. Like I want to, and it's like, but you have to work for it. And there's nothing better than when you start to work for it.
And you start to look at your bank account and you start to make better decisions because all of a sudden it's also your money. And it's so much sweeter when it's your money. And it's what you work for. It's like, it's daunting in the beginning.
But when you start to actually invest in yourself and your own bank account instead of comparing yourself to other people, all of a sudden you have this, it's invigorating. But I'm not gonna lie, it's really, really scary. And I know I'm obviously in a very different financial situation right now and I'm so fortunate. But I have felt the other side of it.
And it's intimidating. And it's not fun to be at the low point where you're starting, I've said the story before. I literally went home and cried to my father the first year I had a real job. And said, I didn't even, someone told me, did you do your taxes?
Dad, I didn't know I had to do taxes. So every year gets better, you just have to wake the fuck up and start caring about it. Love all of that. And first of all, I think that it's so interesting that you grew up with this shame around your friends having to pay for you.
And then you almost carried that into your relationships where you would look for a man to pay for you. It didn't feel good, but it was familiar. So it is that money bias from childhood recreating itself in adult relationships. And unless you actually take a step back and heal that and encourage everyone who's listening to really think about what's your first relationship with money, most of us, what's your first memory with money?
Most of us never think about that, never ask ourselves. But here's the thing, you can have all the tools in the world, all the budgeting apps, the this, the that, all the money, income. But if you don't actually work on your emotional relationship to money, then you're never gonna be able to hold on to it. Or you're gonna hold on to it too tight.
And the relationship will just never feel healthy. So it's good work to do. I really encourage that. I also really appreciate you coming on, because I think every time you try to have a conversation about money, I can imagine there's a lot of people listening that feel very isolated and they don't really have many people to talk to you about this again, because there's just been something that has become the norm of like, don't talk to your friends about it.
Like it's just awkward and I get it. So I think this is a great beginning and starter place for a daddy gang to just know the 50, 30, 20 rule is like what you should leave here today. And knowing that you're gonna start implementing if you haven't already. And then in the description, we're gonna put all of the links for each of us.
Yes, that Haley was talking about today. So that you can begin to like, if you're like, I know I have debt, but I don't know what the interest rate is on it. You're gonna find that out today. And if you don't know how to maybe get into getting that savings account set up, you're gonna know how to do that today.
And so don't feel overwhelmed daddy gang after listening to this. You're gonna be okay. You got this also, please feel free to DM me or doubt Jones. And if we can continue this conversation, you're not alone.
Trust me, the reason we're doing this episode is because so many people do not know what they're doing and it is okay. And if you don't control your money, it will just control you. So we're gonna get you in control of your money. And the last thing that I wanted to add that really like is the most important, like the pillar of all of this is creating a money date for yourself.
So I do mine every month on the last day of the month. I did mine yesterday, it's June 1st, and I would record it. And I realized I was spending a lot on matcha, which we celebrate, but we also need to work on everyone. Teachable moment.
But having that set time, make it comfortable for yourself. You could order and take out, put on your sweatpants, like have a glass of wine, whatever your, take out edible, whatever your poison is, and set that time because days are gonna pass. And if you don't clear the time in your schedule and really make yourself have that sit down with your money, then you're not gonna do it. You know that you're not gonna do it because I didn't do it.
I learned all of this, but it took me months to actually implement it because I wasn't having that money date. And now it's like I'm religious about it. And if there's one thing that you both, there's a few things I'd like for you to take from this episode of emergency fund, be 30, 20, roll, pay it off at high interest rate, pay it off at, use that seven percent rule. But also please schedule time for you to look at your finances because if you don't schedule and it's not gonna happen.
Yeah, I love this so much. And I know obviously there may be some people listening to this that are like, I know all of this, but just be personal perspective. I know that's what I'm saying. So we can also, I know I've had people write in and maybe we can do another episode on like four couples.
I think that's a huge point of contention in relationships financially of who should be splitting what? If someone's making more money, maybe we can do a part two for the people that now have a little bit of their finances figured out, but now they're in a relationship. And that is a whole nother battle and struggle of trying to figure out how to financially figure out the boundaries and balance in a romantic partnership. I mean, one of the most important financial decisions that you ever make will be who you choose as your spouse.
So I would love to do that. And yeah, ask, DM us any questions. I'm here about you. Seriously.
I can't thank you enough for coming on. You are so fun to talk money with, even though it's usually not a fun topic. And I'm so happy we finally made this happen. You are amazing.
And thank you so much for coming on the daddy game. It's gonna freak out and love you. Oh my God. Thanks for having me.
Thanks for having me. Pop your finance cherry.