Jane Fonda

Welcome welcome welcome welcome. I'm Jarrah expert. I'm Dan rather I'm joined by the Duchess of Duluth. Hello.

Hello. I was just in my Royal City You are well appropriate timing because you were there around the coronation of yeah, it seems like all royals returned to their home base that weekend It's true and receive the fanfare. They are they so rightly earned. Oh, yes birthright This was a very fun episode because we don't ever go to someone's house to interview them correct Well, even as a policy we've had a couple of good offers from really good guests, but ultimately I'm like I don't want to be in someone else's and it changes the dynamic it does it dramatically changes the dynamic, but this guest was worth it for A myriad of reasons her age primarily because we have this enormous staircase We were worried about turns out completely pointless worry because I then ended up going up and down about six There cases with her and she outpates me so it was all yeah, or not But that was the motivation but at any rate I was delighted to go to Jane Fonda's house.

Yes to interview her Wasn't that fun all three of us went so fun. You like to to while be well? Yeah get to see how she lives was really fun Really really really awesome interview. You just can't even get into her story In fact we owe her like a ten part maybe our first ten part sure, but also you could read her memoir Yeah, we do that, but I'd rather sit in her living room.

Oh hi yet But I'd rather sit and get it for her the horses ass and read it on the podcast I could read it out I guess unauthorized audio book free for the fact check you may be already there But I'm I really enjoyed it and she's such a fucking powerhouse of a woman Yes, and she has a new movie out now a sequel to an incredibly loved and successful movie the book club It's sequel book club the next chapter is here and it's even better than the last one I finally figured out the screen when I talked to her I couldn't get this link to work But I watch it's phenomenal the fact that they're all together way more in this one is really fun And she just by and large both of our conclusions. I think afterwards was can't keep up with her. No way No, she's not another level. It's crazy.

She's truly yeah, and she is a phenom We loved her. Yeah, cuz I was just around grandparents one is younger than her right? They were real grandparent. Yeah, I was like how is she able to run ten empires?

Yeah, and just be so articulate still yeah Yeah, well I love her. I'm in love with her. Please enjoy Jane Fonda So do you always go to the people's houses? Happy to have been seen you in a long time.

I know I was Remembered me because we had such a small little window together. Yes, and you never talked to me That is not true. That is not true. That is not true And in fact my publicist saw that this was coming up and he said do you remember how hard you were hitting on Jane I know that is not true.

I get on you as much as a married man can hit on you. Let's say that Everybody is doing podcasts is it hard. Oh, no, I love it This is ironically what I think I was born to do really yes because I figured out with the help of a friend I looked at Monica, but it wasn't mine. Yeah, Adam and I'm Grant I slated my very favorite part of making movies is hanging around video village and talking with other actors Like that's what I'm in it for the downtime where we shoot the shit and I find out everything about you and why you moved L.A.

That's what I love see and we never did that you and I and I said to the Debbie upstairs I said keep it like me. Oh, I never talk to me. This is amazing. This is the power of memory and our perception of things Yeah, because I have text evidence that I was observed giving you my full attention Okay, that makes me happy we were in a movie called this is where I leave you and we had no scenes together No, to be honest with you.

I was very excited. I was in a movie with you Like that was a very flattering thing so I was very aware you were in it I was very excited about that and then we went to promote it at the Toronto Film Festival You and I were backstage quite a bit and I only talked to you and there were some good options It's a large a I'm glad. Okay, right we had Tina Fey there. Yeah, Adam driver Jason Bateman or director Sean Levy lots of very tempting guests Yeah, I was solely focused on you.

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Yes I didn't know it at the time. Isn't that interesting? It is interesting isn't it?

I'm a big fan of your wife Give her my very best. I wanted to come and tell you that you guys do a bit on Frankie and I know I felt really bad I asked who she was right. I was hoping she had So they have a bit on that show. Yeah, where they all was on it and Nicole Richie and they say eat shit Kristen Bell Oh, wow, I say who's Kristen Bell?

Okay, but the reason you can get away with it is because she is so sweet and kind she's the only person you can say each That's what Ted Danson told me. I asked him all about her Ted gives permission It's fine. Well, it of course got to her and she's enormously flattered and wanted me to pass on to you that she loved that So if there's any fear you had of like I hope you took that well, she took it the best way Okay, have you ever done a podcast? I've done many you've done many the last one was the very first podcast of Julia Louise rifles Yes, I listen Conan O'Brien.

It's so good. It was very good. Yes. It was number one in the country I imagine I know I've done good with call her daddy.

You did that one wonderful I guess I did know about Conan because I watched a bunch of it this morning Conan. Yeah, yes, okay So you're here to there and lies maybe one of my first curiosities. Okay is I wish people could see you right now Tell it describe to the listener. Yes, okay.

He's sitting opposite me with wonderful stripes Shoes that are not laced up headphones and a look in his eyes that is positively insane He looks like an insane very intense. It's like I'm scared. Oh my goodness I am too we do our best work when we're scared right sort of as long as we stay loose and you're always loose You are one thing about you. I watch every episode of bless this mess.

Oh, you did yes. Oh my goodness Yes, no, I'm a big fan of you and I'm a big fan of Lake. Oh, yes likes a gangster. Yes.

Yes. She's a bad motherfucker Yes, I'm intimidated because we have finite time and you and I could do six hours on your acting career We could do six hours on your activism career. What do you want to do everything? I'm a glutton So yeah, I want it all but first question.

I feel even in my time here I've witnessed some of the most staggering technological Milestones like the notion that I grew up without cell phones is really kind of mind boggling at this point And when I just look at your birthday this morning and I think of all the inventions between 1937 December 21st. Sorry terrible birthday. Great birthday. Are you kidding?

You love it? Oh my god. Oh wow, what are solstice? Heavy powerful.

You're right. Makes me feel empowered. Yeah, as it should sure shortest day of the year That's a glass of lemonade with lemons cuz what's the point of Christmas? So in that time frame, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some but people in have TVs in their home Yeah, I remember the first TV and radio was king.

I remember when there was no freeway in Los Angeles There was a red trolley car that went from way downtown down San Vicetti There were the tracks then the tracks were taken up and I used to ride a horse to school Oh wow, I lived up at the top of Tiger Tail at the end of a dirt road and my school was on the corner of 26 in San Vicetti Where the trolley tracks used to be see in those days. There was no freeways. There was no smog You could see Kathleen every day. Wow.

I had an uncle that had a gas station and van eyes It took all day to get there You went through the subulveda tunnel when you came out and you look down into the valley all these orgies No kitty orange avocado few horse pastures and there were two billion people on earth Oh my so that manifests in every single part of your life. No traffic no crowds a lot of birds a lot of empty spaces Yeah, so when you're watching some of these period pieces set in the forties and stuff I'm imagining you're having what I'm having watching stranger things where it's like the nostalgia is just brimming Do you get kind of transported when you see that stuff? I remember it. I marvel that I'm still alive and working Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wake up every day and pinch myself I feel so lucky to be alive to remember back then and still be here and still working.

It's incredible Yeah, I watched a bazillion interviews of you in the last couple days and you're firing on all So there's like I think you're exceeding what a lot of us are doing at younger ages. It's incredible. I agree You should feel grateful. It's I do be marveled at what do we lose from all these things?

Uh-huh, what do we gain and what do we lose? Okay, you know progress is a thing that confuses me a lot We should be pre-industrial revolution. We should not be digging up Flossilized animals from the time of pre-history ancient sea creatures We shouldn't be digging them up and then setting them on fire to power our civilization things should be smaller There were no chain restaurants when I was little the first one was Howard Johnson's Oh Joe Yeah, Orange Roof if you went from New York down to Florida via car That's what you would see and that was it. It isn't that great.

I miss having a lot of empty space to explore I miss all the birds There are three billion fewer birds in North America than they were in 1970 and I see that so we lost nature We lost clean air and clean water and not so hectic. What did we gain? Television is cool I like iPhones, but iPhones without social media, maybe yeah, although somehow we have the aspect that people can connect and organize That's kind of good. I miss letter writing and my parents are both gone But my stepmother has collected letters and being able to read old letters that your parents wrote to each other before you were born How precious it doesn't exist anymore I read all these historical biographies and there's always these great examples of letters They've written even someone like Ulysses S Grant who wasn't brilliant in an academic sense The way he wrote was insanely beautiful.

It seems like the standard level of literacy when someone was literate was really high in the written work Yeah, you know something though. I just hate old people who say oh my god back in the day. It was so much better Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean iPhones are pretty great Those of us who grew up without them being able to just text someone and say I love you when I miss you without having to go through All the rigamarole that's pretty great But you know today we're more aware that everyone has a place we're more aware of interdependence We're more aware that people's differences should be accepted and loved and embraced and all of that kind of thing didn't use to exist So that's good. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a mixed bag. How old are you 48? Oh, do you ever get suspicious though that you landed in a pretty unique time frame that you got to observe about 80% of the things that Happen on the human spectrum does that ever feel suspicious to you like what do you mean? I'll tell you humans have been here for 200,000 years.

I was born at a time when this all happened That seems a little suspicious and perhaps if they really do a rest aging within my lifetime that'll feel very suspicious like we're in a simulation Or something's going on. Do you ever get that thought of just like wow? What a time I covered? Yeah, I get that thought what a time I covered I mean imagine coming into life at the end of the depression.

I only saw my father cry twice the first time He didn't know I was watching he was standing in his huge victory garden We had victory gardens in those days because food was rationed because of the second world war He was in the Navy overseas, but he came home on leave and he was standing in his garden leaning against a hose sobbing his back was just shaking Roosevelt had died. Oh, wow. He was sobbing sobbing that feels different as well Yeah, right. I married man whose fathers would have probably disowned them if they'd known he'd married somebody who's father cried when Roosevelt died I mean a lot of people hated Roosevelt.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, then the beginning of the second world war when you would go out You had blackout curtains and they were aerate drills fuel rationing tire rationing my mother and father would go out They would volunteer to scout the skies for enemy planes unreal or how about that? You were only born 50 years after slavery ended Yeah, and then you witnessed Obama become president I mean, that's a really tiny time frame if you think about it.

It feels like ancient past but not at all very very close What was the second time he cried? It was soon before he died and I was alone with him and I thought this is my chance He was sitting in a chair and I knelt at his feet and I apologized for not being a better daughter I apologized for making him worry about me so much And I told him that I knew that he had done his best as a father And he started to cry and I knew that he didn't like to be seen crying and I stayed for a while and then I left That's the best gift you could have given him. That's so lovely Yeah, am I right in that that came directly after you guys had shot a scene This was about two three months after he'd won an Oscar so you guys did on golden pond But he died five months later. He died five months after it was released after it was released So he had won his Oscar already.

Okay, and then you had that moment with him. Okay, I had a very complicated relationship with my dad He was an addict as well. They got a horse on three. He was around.

He wasn't he was whatever what did he do? He was a car salesman that wouldn't shock you right? You can see me selling cars somewhere in the west he died a cancer And I had this three month window which I'm so grateful for which was here's your time if you don't do it now It's not gonna get done and I did it and that provided a good deal of relief over the last ten years since he's died But I'm now reached a different phase of it a greedier phase where it's like yeah I did that and now I really want to be friends with them I felt like closure, but actually now more than anything I want that resolution to backtrack and I want now time with them post resolution Do you have that feeling yeah? Because the beautiful thing you say in golden pond what she wasn't prepared for is I wish I was your friend I want to be your friend He hated to have anything happen that had not been rehearsed And so I reached out and I touched him which he wasn't crazy about either He wasn't a very tactile person and no one in the world would notice but I did I touched him he turned away a little bit I get emotional and he ducked his head and put his hand here to cover his face But I saw I saw him tear up I met the world I believe that those feelings that you have of now you want to be his friend I think that that does something cellular to you and I think that's known I think there's a connection I do yeah I feel my mother and father very present especially my dad and I sort of know that they know that I've lived longer than they have and that I've Done really well and I carried the torch well because this was in my dad never ever thought I would when I was just a fuck up Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Can I ask you about your mom a little bit?

Oh sure I did not know any of this until I started researching you she was in a hospital when she committed suicide Yeah, when you were 12 that I guess led me to wonder had she been in and out of hospitals Yeah, and out of hospitals yet mark He's wife used to be the assistant surgeon general Susan Blumenthal and she specialized in women's suicide And so when I was writing my memoirs I talked to her and interviewed her She said that girls who have fathers that are alcoholics and my mother's father was schizophrenic and paranoid and alcoholic that they tend to suffer from depression Well on top of that she was sexually abused and Interestingly enough when I moved to Georgia with Ted I started studying the effects of sexual abuse on girls not knowing that I myself had been that came out later And I learned so much about my mother there and so when I read the medical reports from the institution in which she killed herself I knew what was being said she was sexually abused and she became what she became which meant she couldn't trust She couldn't really love she was like stuck. She had zero self-confidence She flirted a lot she was a lot of things and it was complicated and so I discovered all that after I'd lost her Which meant that I could totally forgive her. Yeah, oh mom. I understand why you could never be there for me Yeah, and she's doing that all in the 30s with a Freudian understanding of like yeah, right Oh my god when I read what they did to her, you know, but they did their best But I mean it was totally inappropriate Yeah, if she was only alive now with the women's movement and the advances in psychology and therapy cognitive therapy relational therapy She could have been helped I could have helped her.

Yeah, well there in lives one of the positive things we'd add to the tally between 1937 and now I do think it's a safer place. It's a safer place for those who can afford it Which is another heartbreaking thing is that we know what works to make people heal and to help them get onwards and yet Most of the people can't afford it. Yeah, or they don't have the time they're working two jobs enough kids. They can't go to What I mean, they can't afford it.

Yeah, yes. Yes. Were you close with her? No, you are nobody could be No, I was with her.

Yeah, and your dad was obviously out shooting movies. So who is raising you me? Uh-huh? I know says we raise ourselves to be the mother of ourselves that we never had yeah And then we mother ourselves into adulthood and sometimes it happens when we're 30 and sometimes when we're 60 Which is the case with me, you know later than life, but it's okay But you had to have as I did pick up isms out of all that you had to pick up some Insecurities and coping mechanisms and some strategies resilience is such an interesting thing Two people can be born within a year of each other of the same parents and one can be resilient and one not is a mystery I was in therapy for a while and my therapist said she thinks that you come into life with it You either have it or you don't because all kinds of things happen to the fetus in utero You know, I mean how the mother is trauma things like that So if you come into life resilient, which I did it means that as a young person not consciously you're scanning the horizon constantly like an infrared Laser seeking a warm body that can love you or teach you something and I bet you're that way I bet you're resilient.

Thank you. I think it's one of my positive characteristics Yeah, yeah in the bag of many characters Yeah, and it saves us because it means if your girlfriend or boyfriend or your elementary school pal has a mother who knows how to love You're gonna get it from her you figure it out You figure it out you just do as opposed to someone who's not resilient who could be surrounded by love but can't metabolize it or initiate it Yeah, you have trouble being vulnerable as I do is it hard for you as for help. I'm learning Wonderful I see you now not having a mother that you would have maybe modeled yourself after I had a stepmother When she died my father was with a woman 23 years younger than him. Yeah, she was about seven years older than me She was Oscar Hammerstein's granddaughter.

Who's Oscar Hammersdine? Who's Oscar Hammerstein? Don't kick me out. I'm trying to be vulnerable I just said that's hard for me lyrics to Oklahoma to South Pacific Rogers and Hammerstein.

I know that well that's Hammerstein Hammerstein Okay, thanks for bearing with me. Yeah, yeah, she was drop dead gorgeous She was Jewish and at 13 I was convinced that the only people in the world that laughed were Jews Okay, right nobody ever laughed in my family And then I met Sineela Matt who was directing 12 angry one with my father and there was laughter all around him And then I met my stepmother who laughed and told jokes and danced and she was chic I was 13 and she taught me how to be me and my brother you weren't threatened No, I needed a role model and she was a this young girl How she knew how to be a mother to two young kids whose mother had just killed himself and she did that's a big that's a big lift Yeah, she even when you referenced a minute ago and you said she has the letters is that the stepmother you referring to know my father was married The last one my stepmother surely has all that stuff Okay, so you were by your own description a little wayward a little confused and know what you wanted to do You end up going to Vosser, but you drop out and then you meet Strasburg's daughter Lee Strasburg's in a play here in LA and we rented a house on the beach and right down the beach Least Rossburg had rented a house because his wife was coaching Marilyn Monroe who was filming some like a hot Wow and Susan Strasburg my age and I would get together with another friend of hers Who was a student of Lee's and we played chess and one day Susan said do you want to be an actor? I had been fired as a secretary and I didn't know what to do and so I said well I don't know she said we should study with my father so he interviewed me and he took me into his classes And he told me I was talented and that was it that was really really impactful now Yeah, I mean I had no intention of being an actor I didn't know what to do I had to earn a living but I was fired as a secretary I didn't know and then I started auditioning and working with Lee and he told me I was talented so I thought okay Do you remember how you had fucked up the secretaryal position that you got fired were you tardy were you incompetent? What led to your disposal?

Jesus hence and nine to five is born It incubates for a while but nine to five is born. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

That's another thing you witnessed on your watch It's not great now at all But even I watch my mother build a business in the 80s and I watched her clients squeeze her ass whenever they wanted to and yeah I can only imagine what was happening when you were a secretary in 1950 or whatever 50 is that's right? Yeah, and it was no holds barred back then Well, it didn't happen to me very much it happened one other time after that there was a French director not the one I married Who told me that he had to sleep with me because the character that I'm playing in the movie has an orgasm and he had to see How I orgasm? I just pretended I didn't speak French Oh my Lord, but it also it must be sort of dismal to see how there has been progress But there should have been more progress on that front by now. This is an issue that is tens of thousands of years old Yeah, and I don't get impatient.

I'm just grateful that we've made the progress that we have it's about power And this is gonna be a long fight and we just have to stick with it. Yeah, that's true. You know what bothers me in your tattoos Yeah, tell me is the white parts. Yes, it's in the process of that one right out there, especially Okay, I just want listeners to know I'm looking at a very magnificent tattooed arm.

It's very beautiful I think that's an eagle. Yeah, so my dad loved Hawks and I love crows crows are so smart They're so smart. Yeah, my favorite bird is a kingfisher and a kookabur. They're related.

Why do you like those two birds? I know they're big and they're fat and they squawk. Oh, they're oh, they're so good. Have you ever been to Australia?

Yes. Oh God, have you had encounters with a kookabur? Birds? No, I haven't oh, I'm really sad.

Oh, they're so good. They're just great bullies And I wish I could remember the name we did go somewhere and there was these little tiny creatures They were so cute and they were in charge. It wasn't a meerkat. They have this really weird name.

It's a little marsupial Oh, it looks like a very baby baby kangaroo, but they're very bossy So in this like orphanage of weird marsupials, they're in charge, but they're seven inches tall and they're running around there yelling at the big kangaroos and I was there with Kristen. I was like, wait this on this is you miniature, but in charge of this whole scene You definitely though give off the vibe that you would be in charge of everything. Well, that's why it's an interesting union between Kristen and I because we're both in charge, but we've learned of both of you in charge. I guess how long have you been married?

About 10 years, but we've been together for 15. That's good. I am not political, but I was protesting don't we were like We're not gonna have a party in a fight our gay friends who can't also do the same thing We're gonna wait, but I want to talk about how you got engaged in activism and this was kind of a revelation I didn't realize the course by which you became an anti-war activist which is you were in France I was married to a French director and I was in France I was pregnant that part's important because when a woman is pregnant. She's like a sponge She's very sensitive and there was a group of American soldiers who were in Paris.

They had deserted they were resisting the Vietnam War They had been they had fought in Vietnam now. They were in Paris looking for help from compatriot Americans You know by the way, you know who housed them and fed them Alexander Calder the great sculpture. Oh really anyway They sought me out one of them's name was dick paren and we kind of became friends You know what we did the first time I met dick what we were going out to see mid-summer night's dream in Paris with Leonard Bernstein's wife Felicia Bernstein George Orwell's granddaughter. Oh boy My wonderful stepmother who was hardly older than I was the one that was so wonderful to me and the soldier He started talking to me about Vietnam and I didn't believe him Yeah, you even said you felt like this take was sour grapes on the French's part That was when the French were opposed to the war.

I just said sour grapes just because you lost yes So you started very kind of my my father's in the Navy Assume that wherever our soldiers were fighting was the side of the angels I really believe that yeah, but these guys had actually been there They were the soldiers that were there and they were telling me these things and I was having a hard time believing and they gave me a book Called the village of Ben Suck by Jonathan shell and I read it And I remember closing it up and knowing that my life would never be the same and a year later I left France. I left my family. I moved back here What did the French husband say to that he called me Jane of Arc and he made fun of me? He did he's trying to tease you when did not doing it.

Well, I mean, it's hard for a guy. I wasn't leaving him for another man I was leaving him for a cause that's even scarier. He was very uncomfortable with that You can't compete with a cause that's right. This was one of my first big issues with Kristen Well, she has so many causes and I said look I'm a son of a single mom that had a bunch of step dads blow through I want to be someone's number one thing selfishly and of course any cause because it's the right thing of course I'll be second to anything that's more important.

That's my big fear and she said you will be number one and I will do all this stuff Okay, right well, he probably also couldn't be vulnerable and say that to you either though He couldn't say that but I'll tell you what really got me I moved back here I had been watching television in France seeing this amazing anti-war movement marching on the Pentagon And I kept thinking that's where I should be I came back home because it was soldiers that had exposed the war to me I sought out soldiers here and I became part of the GI movement as civilian support and Anywhere activists had created these coffee houses outside of military bases around the United States and they would run them and soldiers would come off the basis and come in and read about Vietnam learn about Vietnam here speakers and there was one in clean, Texas outside of Fort Hood It was called the Olios Strut loved that name It was the woman who ran at Terry Davis that turned me into a lifelong activist the way she treated the guys the way she listened to them The way she talked to them and cared about them the way she dealt with me she didn't see me as a celebrity She saw me She wanted to know how I felt about the demonstration that was happening tomorrow and I was leading the way and I was a virgin activist And she wanted to be sure I felt okay She would invite feminists to come and speak about the woman's movement to the soldiers But the way she did it made it so organic and loving being with her was like looking through a keyhole at the world that we were fighting for Hmm that we wanted to create she sucked you into her worldview She didn't suck me in it was just the way she treated people she was the change that we were fighting for and she wasn't the only one I kept meeting people like this. I had never met people like this in my life Yeah, I was 32 years old and I said I want this I want to become a person like these people It was the quality of the women in the anti-war movement that made me feel this is who I want to become and this is where I belong Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare This kind of sets up this interesting evolution of you which I've heard you talk about a lot Which is there's a profound moment when you get divorced from Ted you're 62 and it's the first time in your life You say you feel like you're fine without a man and you also acknowledge You're previously used men to take you to where you wanted to go which is what you said and then leave them I didn't always plan to leave them. I never thought I would but sure but it happens right? Yeah, yeah I'm just repeating what you said within any judge whatsoever But I'm wondering the whole ride there's this tension between looking to men for an identity and approval and a transport to somewhere else And then trying to define what being a woman would be and it feels like this moment for you is something that's a building block to 62 It's like exploring what a woman would do without any man That's right and then right after that I made clued and I realized when I was filming clute.

Oh my god I'm becoming a feminist right in that moment of you being an activist and being very very involved in dedicating your life to it a friend told You and you were like I'm done acting that's so frivolous compared to this and that friend said we've got a lot of activists We don't have any celebrities. We don't have movie stars This was a black from Detroit from Detroit called Ken Cockrell and we became friends and he was a mentor And he said no, not only are you not gonna leave the business You've got to pay better attention to your career be more intentional about the movies you make take it seriously Yeah, that's what we need in this movement and then I formed a production company Yes, isn't it bizarre when you watch how we get redirected and all these avenues the workout this incredible woman named Lenny Kasten taught me the workout and I was looking for some way to make money to support the campaign for economic democracy in California because we had a statewide organization in this huge state at the time it had 22 million people now It's 48 million or something and there was a recession. It was the end of the 70s I said I'm gonna go into a business of the workout to fund the campaign for economic democracy and look what happened? Yes, yes But also just how incredible through now the perspective of looking back that if you don't become an activist I mean you would have been bored with it But you're maybe playing different roles and taking different projects and then almost your rejection of the career leads to do Greating the career.

Yeah, really creates a career. Yeah, actually gave it longevity Yeah, because then you have some pretty powerful movies and rapid succession that are quite political. Yeah coming home I roll over which was not a success, right? But let's talk about nine to five for a second movies 1980 It's 50 years ahead of schedule really or kicks off something that comes to full fruition just a few years ago Was that an easy movie to get set up not once Dolly and Lily agreed to do it during the Vietnam war I became very close friends with a woman in Karen Nussbaum and her day job was organizing women office workers And she started in Boston an organization called nine to five She would tell me these stories about what was going on with women office workers And I said I gotta make a movie about this was a serious kind of a darker comedy then and then I saw Lily Tomlin I had never seen her before performing a one-woman show called appearing nightly I was like this is the greatest woman actor I have ever seen in my life And I'm smitten and I'm not gonna make a movie about secretaries unless she's in it true story I'm driving home from the theater and I turn on the radio and it's Dolly Parton singing two doors down and I had this image of Dolly.

Oh my god, what a great secretary. She can't see her fingers When she's just typing she's never acted never been in a movie But my god just a visual and I bet she can't act she had never at that point No, no, she had never been in a movie No way and Lily and Dolly it turns out had the same manager It took me a year to convince them both to do this it was a great experience and once they came in it was not difficult No, you have said several times that Dolly for you was one of the most impressive people Dolly is truly extraordinary My curiosity was did you have any judgment of the book before you met her? Were you shocked to learn that she was as sophisticated and savvy and in charge of her own life as she is I was relieved I was so happy to find out how smart she is I guess when I put you in that time at Grand Ole Opry in you standing on a tank those are very different women I could see where one woman would be judgmental of the other no I've always loved country music I was fascinated by her but I didn't know her but I got to know her what a treat when I was Working on 9 to 5 to get that ready with my producing partner Bruce Gilbert I was also working on another project that I ended up being on television It was the only movie that I ever did for television It was called the Dollmaker and I had to play a hillbilly who can't read I said I need help Dolly because you're the only hillbilly I know you're not exactly typical I need to understand can you tell me where to go well as a gift to me after the movie was over 9 to 5 She invited me to Nashville and she took me on a 10-day trip through Appalachia And I met eventually the woman that I went and lived with then for a while and you are in her bus Yeah, you guys were like on a tour bus when on her bus It was hysterical and she has a cousin in the Ozarks that makes moonshine Okay, so we picked up some moonshine when we passed through there, you know and she taught me what make good moonshine It means it's been passed two three four times It was so pure she taught me how to hook my thumb through the hook of the jug and tip it up with my elbow And so we drank on this jug for 10 days. Oh, what?

I did not know that I was drunk until I got home it took me two weeks to recover Oh, we laughed a lot. Oh my god. I have a question about feminism So when you came into being a feminist and you started realizing this is a type of person I want to be when you were exposed to those awesome women Did it make you look at your life up until that point differently like your relationships? How did you then in retrospect see the way you've been operating your life?

I saw it very clearly I realized that I could see my life as a gender journey that kind of everything that happened to me And how I responded was a result of the fact that I'm a woman. Yes, I'm supposed to be thin. I'm supposed to look like this I'm supposed to behave like this I thought so I baked this kind of a person and so on and so forth It made me understand my life And that's why my memoir that I wrote my life so far is really a gender journey It wasn't until I realized that that I could even write it But I was a theoretical feminist for a decade or so my movies were all women centered the books I read the people that I knew it was in my head I wasn't embodied exactly and I know the moment that I became an embodied feminist a friend of mine named Pat Mitchell persuaded me to Go to New York I still lived in Atlanta to see Eve Antsler perform her play that she wrote the vagina model Oh, yes, and she performed all of them on a lot's herself I was by myself and I don't know if you've seen the play, but there's parts of it that are hysterical And there's parts of it that I'm sobbing it was while I was laughing the guard is down the censorship is down And I could feel my feminism going into my body. I could feel myself becoming oh my god.

That's what it is I'm so you are so happy. Yeah, I fell in love with her and she's been my friend ever since it was a great experience I love that because I think a lot of people especially younger people me have a very intellectual view of it And sometimes our actions don't necessarily even match our intellectual thoughts on it and it's confusing It was confusing for me in the beginning, you know, I became an activist right at the time that feminism was going through a very Saterian phase you weren't a feminist unless you were a lesbian Right kind of thing took me a long time to really understand and it was even slower who did it another piffany Yeah, okay the thing I think I admire the very most about you is you seem to have a bravery in the face of shame You're incredibly honest. You're incredibly vulnerable You own up to things and admit to things over the years. You were very out of your time Don't you hate it those people who say the world is full of assholes Everybody's an asshole except them.

They never write responsibility. I hate that. Yeah, everyone else is the problem in the relationship Everyone else's yeah, let me just tell you where I come from. I'm recovering addict.

I was molested I grew up in a lot of violence. I've been a terrible dude in my addiction. Oh, I think I love you I have found it a challenge to be honest and open and deal with what wouldn't do shame otherwise And it's been hard But I'm much further down the road and you did it much much earlier And I'm wondering if you have an explanation for how you've been able to own who you are and not carry the shame It's hard, but again, it's resilience that helps. Yeah, I love nine to five Yeah, I think you were so ballsy to stand on a tank all that stuff the thing I think your bravest is when you go I was not a good mom and I didn't understand how to be a guy My kids don't want me to do that anymore.

Okay, great. So we won't do that We'll respect them but to say I had a food addiction way before people said they had a food addiction Those are the moments for me where I go. Oh, James bad ass She's who I aspire to be women are taught not to tell their truth because if we tell our truth nobody will love us And what I learned as I started to get older was when women do tell their truth. It's a universal I think in my heart what I really am as a teacher and what I really want to do is to make other people women in particular and gay Men because they respond to no, it's not just you.

It's universal I want people to be able to identify and learn from I think that's the biggest contribution that I can make in life I hate the idea of going out and dying and I'm gonna die soon given how old I am without feeling that you've contributed something So I want to contribute honesty. Yes. Well, look men have had the luxury of being full-dimensional people that are flawed and still loved all my favorite Country singers well and Jennings I mean this is a man who was doing a kilo a coca month and was not around and slept with every woman But the art was beautiful and we're like yeah, he's a complicated man. That's how we get those songs never where women invited to be a full thing That has some beautiful amazing parts and some flawed parts.

They struggle with they maybe not even now invited to have the whole complexity of a human That's right, but we have a great strength that y'all don't have which is that we're not afraid of saying to our women friends I'm in trouble help me. Yep, exactly. I don't know what to do. I'm lost and please hold me.

Oh Oh, what a gift we're taught to think that's weakness But it's pure strength to be able to do that. It's really hard for me because I always wanted to be a man It's hard. Yeah, but you guys don't do that and it's such a handicap. I played your father in particular You've said he really suffered from that Midwestern.

Yeah, women are born in for ten years just until they become adolescents It's like fuck you and let's wrestle and I'm gonna climb the tree and punch. Yeah, my daughters are farting every six minutes Right our full voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then we reach adolescents and oh you're supposed to be that way Oh, I want to be popular that thing sets in but we've had a decade of voice being alive and heard before then men You're five years old you leave house for the first time and go to school society and coaches and teachers and maybe even your father is saying Oh boys don't cry. Oh, no.

No, don't show your emotions. No, no don't hug him and what does it do? It cuts you off from your heart and I think that's where addictions come in now because we're chalices that are meant to be filled And if we're not filled with spirit, which means our full humanity We can't hug and love on and ask for help and be strong intertwined with the whole we gotta fill that emptiness with something It can be drugs. It can be liquor.

It could be sex It could be shopping. Yeah, and that's why finally understood a higher power Oh, it means fill that empty space with love and spirit Which means you need to be humble you need to be able to admit weakness and all like that and I've lost my train now ever since I started doing chemo I sometimes forget what I'm saying. I don't know what I'm referring to now You are on fire. That was completely linear and brilliantly stated.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes Could you for a second because I'm an addict and it's my favorite topic Can you tell me the struggle of an eating disorder in a time where it wasn't really talked about and there weren't any tools And how on earth you navigated that and you were older, right? Yeah, I healed myself in my late 40s late 40s. That means like a lot of years exactly engaging in this addictive behavior Probably 25 years or something. Yeah, 15.

Well, it's weird when you think that this thing that I'm doing nobody else Does it I'm the only person yeah, cuz it's not obvious you can look at bars and see that many people have drug and alcohol Addictions it's such a private endeavor that addiction that you could think you're the only person on the planet. That's right And it's a totally isolate you don't want anybody to know it's a disease of denial because if anybody knows they're gonna try to stop you Yes, and they can monitor you you have to go eat three times a day or you have to participate in this whole thing And you will be monitored so you don't want to open that I don't want anybody to know and so your life is based on the seat and you're obsessive And so you don't really think about anything else and it affects every aspect of your life Yeah, and when you're young there's no price to pay and then you start getting older and every binge and purge would take a week to recover from Oh wow, just like all addictions they work less and they're harder to recover from and then you begin to realize I'm not gonna be able to continue to live an accomplished life if I keep on all I know is then I have to stop and Like how do you do that? So how do you do that? I thought I was gonna die.

I was married. I had children I was working politically I was working as an entertainer and I just stayed stone for a long time. That's hard It was very very very very hard. I went cold turkey and it was very very very hard And did you tell people did you tell your family knows all private the first time I ever admitted it publicly was the first workout book That I wrote and I didn't know there was a name for it and a rexia.

But we Mia I didn't know I wrote it and my editor said Jane. I can't tell you are you talking about yourself or somebody else? Yeah, arms like yeah, I was at arms like and I wrote more about it when I wrote in my number and I've studied it a lot now But again, it goes back to my question Do you think you can isolate why you have the bravery or the gumption to put yourself in a situation that otherwise might scare people Because of the shame the public shame. Where does it come from?

Can I tell you mine? Oh good I'm competitive I was dominated by step dads and an older brother And I have a weird commitment to my life post childhood that I will not be dominated And I will live exactly how I want to live and so my competitive fuck you says I refuse to let you have power over me I refuse to let you shame me. I'm in charge of me mine is a fuck you I'll be me whether you like it or not Alcohol and led me to be honest that I'm an alcoholic and an addict I've been molested like the things I've said in public that I was afraid of sure Mine comes from a well fuck you. I refuse to let you shame me I'm gonna be honest about me, but out of this very almost aggressive defense of myself.

That's where I steal it in myself Uh-huh, you know what mine was that's sort of like that. I'm white I'm privileged I had a famous movie star father Everybody thought I would be a horse and so when I became an activist and I was becoming controversial I knew that those who didn't agree with me thought we're gonna give her a hard time and she'll cave and I was like Oh, yeah, right. Yes, you're not gonna make me cave Yeah, I am not who you think I am so it's kind of the same thing right all good I love that because I've studied Zen Buddhism I went to a retreat that was a silent meditation for eight days. It was very very intense It was formal Buddhist meditation silent no words No making eye contact and I know afterwards everybody said they never thought that I'd make it because a lot of people do come And then they leave they don't stay and I felt so strong.

Yes. Yes, you just need to basically hear you shouldn't or gonna do something And then you're activated. Yeah, so you shouldn't bring your dirty skeletons out in public. Yeah shouldn't admit to this Okay, I dig that let's talk about your movie now.

You have a movie called So good. Oh, this is gonna be big. Yes, we loved it And it does perfectly set up another thing we would love to talk about which is what that movie and now the second one models Just so incredible I know you're very aware of this and we tell people this all the time that it is for your morbidity You'd be better off smoking than not having friends that it is more dangerous to your health to not have friends women friends well And men to a human's need human social creatures, but women's friendship is very different than men's okay. Tell me okay This is the analogy men friendships men side by side looking out looking at things women cars sports Yeah, women are facing each other eyes to eyes.

We're asking for help We're being vulnerable together. We drill down to a soul level right at the beginning even if we haven't seen each other for a decade It's deep the laughter also is the most unhinged the greatest laughter that I have ever experienced was with women friends You brought it up in the vagina monologues laughter is a very disarming state to be in because you don't have your faculties about You to be protective of yourself and be totally down. You're fucking uncontrollably your vulnerable That's why I fell in love with Ted Turner. He is so funny and he taught me that it's okay to be funny and outrageous I mean he really gave me a sense of humor.

I didn't have that before the power of these female connections How vital they are to your actual health and how this movie to me is a celebration of that and a modeling of that and encouraging of that That's exactly what we wanted to be and what we knew it would be and it's also just because you're 70 or 80 Doesn't mean you can't take leaps of faith and have adventures and maybe even fall in love Yeah, even get married. That's what the movie talks about and it's making people so happy Yes, it is the most joyous thing to watch you guys have that fun have that adventure the first one We only got together the four women when we were having our book clubs. Where is this one? You're all together all the time in Italy and Rome and in Venice.

We learned that we liked each other Which we didn't know we'd never worked with each other before which is interesting in itself, right? People I guess would probably assume you all knew each other I know I mean we had you know when you crossed paths at parties and then of course We didn't really know each other and we'd never worked and we made the first one and we liked each other and we were interested in each other And we became friends and we stayed in touch during COVID God bless her Diane Keaton would call me like every three weeks to find out How I was and every time candy comes out we would figure out whose house we could have a reunion in and yeah Yeah, we were friends and then we realized that it was gonna be successful And we should do a sequel and was candies idea to do it in Italy and it was like was it work right? It was a vacation. It was a blurring of lines.

Okay. I worked with Craig T Nelson for six years on parenthood I absolutely love him. Yes, I do too deeply and I imagine you two together and I just imagine lots of sparks politically are different Oh, but I like the other lots exactly I can see the interaction knowing him so well and having interacted with you myself Is it a very fun and playful friendship? Well, I really had fun with him was when he played my lover in Grayson Frankie Oh, yes, yes, I remember that as well.

Yeah, I was where I got to know him and love him Sure, sure, sure, you know in this movie. He's married to Mary Steam virgin who I fucking adore right yet. She is a magical person She's on another level. She's on a long zone.

Yes, the great gift for me is her and Ted have come into my life I love them so much and what a great couple aren't they incredible my lord all of us Diane candy and I I mean we're just like With their dog Arthur their 17 and a half year old dog Arthur So he was like everybody's plus one and Arthur was everybody's dog and we went out Nate pasta and gelato We were there at the same time last summer and we were communicating with Ted and we were supposed to get together with Ted and then He had covid out of nowhere. He was stuck there. Yeah, I mean to be in Venice and have covid. Yeah, it's not fair I know but this movie is very hopeful for people I think because we have an idea about what happens when you get older you get more isolated you separate yourself You're done and this is so awesome to see vibrance in older age.

Yeah, taking matters in our own hands and just say let's just do it Let's go. Yeah, I know it and have fun Yeah, so the real life experience is mirroring the movie I'm sure as you're down there in Italy with your friends and you're going out to eat and you're having this experience I'd imagine being very overwhelmed gratitude in that scenario major gratitude every one of us We all miss it. We want to go back big big gratitude. I discovered I had cancer while I was there Okay, everybody else was getting away.

I lost 10 pounds and it was 104 degrees and in spite of that it was great It was very hot. Oh my gosh. It was so hot and I was wearing wool suits. I could okay Okay, I have one last kind of line of questioning and it's what we talked about a lot at TIFF because I had watched this 60 minutes segment on Ted Turner.

It's among my three favorite profiles I've ever seen I didn't really have much awareness I mean I knew of him but I never heard him really talk or what he was all about and I related so much to him one thing in particular The insatiable wanderlust you said Ted has to go somewhere every three days. He has to get on a plane the demons are chasing and he's got to keep moving Yes, I so related to that and I watched it. I was like well That's my dream life I have a jet and every day so just keep going west and just come back around and that was taxing for you to be the partner of Someone like that that is one of the most remarkable human beings that I have ever met in my life I've met a lot of people he is so brilliant to live with somebody who can see things that nobody else can see and then turns out They're right mm-hmm like a clairvoyance. Oh my god He studied the classics and then he became the greatest sailor in the world because he's strategic You know this was before computers.

It was just him and the wind He was in sailboat races where 15 people drowned and died and he would win by 24 hours I mean he was a brilliant sailor Yeah, and a brilliant strategist and beyond handsome and hysterically funny. I love him so much We both love each other so much, but I was getting older, you know as far as I was concerned I was through I left the business I was devoting my life to him and it was gonna be forever But I didn't want to keep moving. Yeah, I wanted to like go down like I gave him Tuesdays with Maury Maybe that you know, I kept trying You know, I said tell who are you beyond the greatest sailor in the world in the creator of CNN and Turner broadcasting and buying MGM Just so we could own that library and create Turner classic movies, but beyond that I said, you know, I'm an actor, but it's not who I am is what I do right, you know It's hard to compare one person's trauma years to his or whatever Who knows but my first long date with him in Montana when we were driving around his at the time He only owned one ranch there and we got lost because he didn't know his way around But he told me his life story and I wept and he kept saying why are you crying? I said, why aren't you?

Yeah, it was a traumatic childhood. I think it's PTSD Frankly untreated and it's hard to live with after a while. Yeah when you're young you can live laterally But when you're old you want to go vertically you want to go down deep Mmm, and it just couldn't happen you said that while you were married to him You had your 59th birthday out there you were corralling some bison and it occurred to you Wow next year will be my 60th birthday In the beginning of my third act That's right my last third and you took a year to investigate yourself What we would say in a like you did an inventory But you did an inventory of your whole life and you researched yourself like you were a stranger helped by having a two-foot high stack of FBI files On Yeah Gangster that's really cool. I have a file of yourself.

I feel like a failure now I also like the way you talk about the third act like in movies the third act makes sense of the first and second and I love the way You phrase that it motivated me because I realize oh my god This is it this is the last third how am I supposed to be and I realize I can't know how I'm supposed to be going forward Unless I know where I've been yeah, and I spent a year figuring that out and when I came to the end of that research I started to like myself for the first time I realized that I was brave and that I was in constant struggle to get better to be better to do better And that I deserved to be loved yeah, I made a video of it to show at my 16th birthday party It was all kinds of interesting people at that party and a couple of the women decided to get divorced because of that video And that was when the ending of the marriage started okay really because that video available anywhere No, and even if it was I wouldn't show it what if I came over for dinner would you show to me? I'd love you to come over for dinner, but you're not sure I don't have it I don't know where to go about it I don't know first of all I applaud that you made the decision you made But I was very heartbroken and lovesick at the end of that segment because he fucking loves you It was so hard and it was terrifying. I was 62 years old. I didn't know what I was gonna do I hadn't been in a movie for 15 years and I want the person who's 36 and think it's too late for them exactly That's why it's an important message.

You think it's scary at 36 you did it at 62 What's something you're in love with you can love somebody and it cannot bring you to where you're supposed to go One thing that I left out about the research that I did on myself See I watched my father die and I knew I'm not scared of that What I'm scared of is getting to the end and having some real regrets and when it's too late to do anything about it And I knew my dad had regrets and so I vowed on that 59th birthday that okay one thing I know is I want to live my third act in such a way that when I get to the end I won't have big regrets the moment when I realized I was gonna have to leave I knew that if I didn't I would have regrets and it was that decision that's why it's really important to do a life review when you get to be older And it's not just that I did then then I did that it's really taking the time How did I feel how did I really feel you have to like excavate yourself because when you do that it informs how you're gonna live the rest of your life And you make the right decisions are we running over time? No, I was worried for you I would be here forever. Thank you for being vulnerable with me Oh my pleasure. Can I ask you a really?

I really like you too in fact This is what's on the tip of my tongue that's inappropriate, but I feel that this is the question I really want to ask you do you have a hard time loving a man without it immediately clicking into a romantic Love because like I am so attracted to you and so drawn to you as a person and impressed by you That my real thought if I'm dead honest with you is if christian I weren't married I would marry you like I would marry you at your age and I would be delighted to spend whatever amount of time and then another voice says Why are you such a love at like why is that the way I need to right? Why is that the way I need to love you? To be married I just always it's love and then it's like maybe the rest of my life kind of thing totally I understand where you go and I kind of mad at myself about it like I would like to be here going like I love this person I'm attracted this person. I would like to experience this person.

It doesn't mean I have to Get to know her too. Okay, wonderful. Wonderful. But I was just here.

Yes. Oh my god. Yes That's an easy promise to make I just was curious to make though Especially when you're older and you're successful the way you are and I am and we're busy So when you want to become a friend of somebody when you're old I'm going into 86 you have to be really intentional Yeah, otherwise there's no time. You're totally right.

I think also sadly what we all suffer from is like the only way we get to see each other If it's under the guise of something professional. This is professional. I won't make the time to come to your home Yeah, but I'm gonna invite you and christian over for dinner. We will come and like bell will come.

Oh wonderful Yes, wonderful. She and I are really good friends. And maybe you know who else I adore is june Diane Raphael. Do you know her?

No, oh she played my daughter and grace and franke. She's married to Paul Sheer and they're both yeah, they're comedians stand up comedians Well, we just interviewed Paul Sheer and he and I made a commitment to start watching movies together So I'm all in on that. Okay. Yes, this is powerful.

Do you have any food issues? I'm not gonna bore you with them, but of course I do I'm sorry on arthritis and I've deep very specifically and then I hate being fretted over so it's like a double whammy I love to fret over you. You would We just have to watch over gluten. I really should not eat gluten.

That's about it. Okay. We're good with that. Okay.

Wonderful. Jean. This is wonderful It's been so great for me. I was so nervous.

You were because I thought you didn't like me. Aren't we fucked up? Anyway, but hold on. I do the same thing.

I do the same thing. I do the same thing. We're just twins Yes, yeah, so I'm so relate to you And it's funny because no one can overcome it either because I was so outwardly engaged in talking Like at least my memory of it and when I see in you what I see myself, which is like no one can even overcome that no I don't think so. It'll be that way forever Yeah, that's all right.

Yeah, but it's the fuel in the tank. Maybe but you have a loving partner. I'm so happy me too Yeah, I'm really happy for you. Yeah.

I'm happy for me that I'm alone. Yeah, you are. I am. Okay.

Wonderful. Yeah, I've said that I think I might even ask you that at Toronto. I think I wasn't alone in Toronto. Oh, you were?

No, I'm with Richard Barry. Oh, okay. Wonderful. Yeah You could have said Adam Driver and I would believe that as well.

I wish. Yeah, I think we all do. Isn't he great? Oh, he's tremendous.

He's tremendous also from Michigan was in the military a real person before he was an actor. I know I know all about it Yeah, and do I love Michigan Richard was in Michigan my second husband Tom Hayden Michigan editor of the Michigan Daily lawyer friend who advised you to get back into show business in intentional way I spent a lot of time there. I used to go to union organizing things there And I was part of fighting for one fair wage for restaurant workers So we traveled to the upper peninsula everywhere with Lily. I would drag her because she comes from Detroit.

Yeah, you've lived a thousand lives Yeah, I'm aspiring to go tomorrow and that would be fine. I'm ready. I'm totally ready. Please wait for our dinner.

Oh, oh, that's on the calendar already Wonderful. Well, Jamie love you and I want everyone to go and see book club the next chapter May 12th in theaters And this is even better the second one and bring your book clubs bring your friends bring your mother your grandmother I also love that they're so successful. It's so fucking great. Peter using the word franchise.

Well, it is a franchise This is number two women in a franchise listening there's gonna be a third for sure. So start thinking of what country you want to be in it I'll come out of retirement and I'll do it. This is maybe how we do everything Could you help a young lover in one of these is that too much to ask? I'd be unfaithful to Don Johnson totally fine DJ can handle it.

He's had some unfaithful moments in his life hasn't he ever Jane I adore you everybody see book club the next chapter. I hope we get to talk again soon and I hope we have dinner together. Thank you Thank you. This has been so fun.

I agree Stay tuned for armchair expert if you dare And now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman Still making noises. What's it doing? It is? Oh, I don't hear any noises.

Okay. It was probably just all quiet now. It was a little lock on the front. Just take a moment of silence for it.

Okay. Remember moment of silences? Did you guys have those? In school?

Yeah. No, we have them in a a. Oh, you do. Yeah, after a moment of silence for the alcoholic who still suffers Please join me in the surrounding prayer.

Oh We it was funny to hear me write a little scripture like when I know these Yeah, memorize things. Yeah seems against my creed. Okay. Yeah in school.

You would like it's part of the announcements It was like pledge of allegiance and moment of silence. I know for who dead people I never even I this is the first time I've ever even considered what is that for? See, there's a value in questioning. No because it didn't hurt me to take a moment of silence If it was hurting me, then I would question it.

It was probably good. It's probably meditative I mean that's why they did it But it was probably good for you to start the day like that Well, right and if the goal was that participation in that would be easy Sure, if the goal was let's take a minute to remember or the fallen soldiers fine It's weird to do that every day at school. I guess but I bet that's probably more what it was Especially if it's coming after the pledge of Let me ask you this if the moment was to The full intention and what was just talked about at the school board was a moment for all the babies that have been murdered from abortion Yeah, then you complying in it is kind of validating right so sure yeah I think if it was something like that my guesses they would say because the whole purpose would be to indoctrinate you in believing that So my guess is it wasn't for something as uh intense as that this is fun I get in all the time which is I'm not somebody Who you can hand an object to and say take that over there I'm entitled to know why I'm asked to do something for somebody else I think I'm like well within my rights to know what I'm participating in because what if it's something I object to yeah But a lot of people christen in particular thinks if I hand her a bag and say run and dump that over that that's all she needs to know There's some value in it. I can see where she her explanation would be like well you trust her You align yourself with people you trust who think that they have your best Intention in mind and so it cuts down on you having to know you can just trust the person if they say eat this you can trust It's healthy for you or they wouldn't have given it to you and maybe interprets questioning as a lack of trust And I think people are they fall on one end of that spectrum or the other I Don't ever want to do something that I don't know what the intention is yeah for the purposes Well, you don't have to okay.

Well, you just worked out did you have a nice workout? I wish I had a little more energy during my workout. I maybe um some residual exhaustion from the travels June gloom or in may but may right oh may gray. Yeah, that's what I say.

Yeah, how do I know may gray? I don't know why you don't know. I mean I think it's stupid because it's supposed to be just June gloom And then we had too much gray and may so they had to add that so soon There's gonna be like april paper. Well, I was just gonna ask you if you can come up with something catchy for april April's a rough word I know rhyme with april tendril April's tendrils I think it has to be something very negative well tendrils.

I don't really want any months tendrils tendrils are like my hair in that picture Okay, sure. I think of tendrils is cascading and taking control. Oh, this is this works perfectly with the first thing I was saying I don't even know about that. Well, I think of ghouls and monsters and creatures having tendrils humans don't have tendrils primates don't have tendrils maemals don't have tendrils Oh, wow.

Yeah, I only have tendrils. Oh, yeah. I only think about it in terms of curly hair Oh, you know that's nice. And I guess I'm wrong primates do have tendrils in their hair curly hair But functional tendrils that are gonna maybe have some suckers and leech off you or poison you yeah, that is gross wrapped in its tendrils It just sounds quite scary.

Hmm interesting April's tendrils Well, I still want it to reflect that there's a gloominess in the air or well to me it feels like you're being attacked Okay, sure. I think you keep working on it. You can call it that I'm not gonna fight you on that But now that I know why it's called that I'm not gonna call it that so now it's like the moment of silence. Okay, great Well, this is kind of connected.

Is this for Jane Fonda? Oh, this is for Jane Fonda and we're talking about the weather And uh, she said she was born on winter solstice She had the most positive silver lining of uh birthday five days before christmas four days before christmas She loves the winter solstice and I wanted to read about it It changes though winter solstice the day. Yeah, it's not always on her birthday. The lunar calendar is 360 days But maybe the day she was actually born Sun not moon.

So maybe it is the same day every year. Okay. I'm gonna read about it The winter solstice occurs when either of earth's poles reaches its maximum tilt away from the sun This happens twice yearly once in each hemisphere for that hemisphere northern southern for that hemisphere The winter solstice is the day with the shortest period of daylight and longest night of the year When the sun is at its lowest daily maximum elevation in the sky either pole experiences continuous darkness or twilight around its winter solstice The opposite event is the summer solstice. Mm.

It doesn't commit to a date though. We make one full loop of the sun Every 365 point two five days. Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah, hence leap year sure exactly so obviously on a year with leap year It's going to fuck up the date one way or another. Yeah, so it has to change well this year's is december 21st That's her birthday at 727. Is that her birthday? I think so.

Okay, so Yeah Like somebody asked it's December 23rd this shortest day of the year for the northern half of the earth and the northern hemisphere the winter solstice occurs Accurs annually on December 21st or second or second. Oh or second there we go Thank god Southern hemisphere's winter solstice occurs in June the winter solstice is a day with a few stars on the k Philosophy physicist was it a good episode because you seemed a little angry when you came out of the gym. Oh, I did Yeah, oh, I wasn't angry at all. Okay, maybe I wasn't thought because it was a complex issue about time the nature of time was a move forward Is it relative?

Mm-hmm the person deserves credit for Pete's sakes Is it Pete's? Sakes or is it because I had a shirt once that said as a joke was like a cheeky shirt. Uh-huh tongue and cheek Yeah, it said who's Pete's sake? That's st.

Peter sure But would you say then but is it yeah Pete's sake for Pete's sake. Yeah, let's tell the truth. Yeah, so that sure was The dude for Christ's sake. Oh, oh Because some people say for Pete's sake.

I think that's why the shirt, but they're saying it wrong So the gentleman he was talking his name is Tim Modlin which Modlin is an interesting last name because that's Modlin you can say that's Modlin Right, which means a certain kind of theater Like broad Modlin or does it mean like more? Yeah, you're thinking I'm a rose. No, Modlin I think it means is any boring. I bet it's spelled the fitting Self-hitting or tearfully sentimental tearfully sentimental which Tim was not too Modlin is not.

Oh, it's really sentimental. Oh, okay I have a friend name his last name is Malden. Oh like Carl Malden. Yeah, wait Is he related to Carl Molt and does he have an enormous nose?

I would say I have a nice car His name is Carl. Yeah, yeah No, I'm serious. Well, it's confusing because it's my friend Robbie's stepdad. Okay, Carl Malden.

Yeah, that's his name I don't even know about well, I do but I mean it's all you would he was in on the waterfront. He had legendary career um, he's in the adventures with Dax is the protagonist. Oh, yeah the movie version of the adventures by her. Oh my god, and is he Robbie's stepdad?

Apparently, oh my god. He had a very older stepdad Very older. Um, anyway time. Yeah, well among the many things he got to which I found really kind of neat and abstract was There's this proclivity, I think in pop culture That if we understood how every atom worked entirely and we could track every atom In the universe that we would be able to predict the future And implicit in that is that your brain is atoms and molecules too and those two would be predictable Some model could tell you and this really is the case against free will which I don't agree with right?

I didn't agree with you. Yeah, this gentleman Tim Modlin. He made a couple of really good points that kind of divide physics and consciousness Um, but he used some simple examples. So he said math, right math you would think of as Part of the concrete sciences and that it's fundamentally reliant on physics on how things move and our understanding of physics But he was saying math was completely different physics.

Let's say there wasn't we had different physics Gravity repelled didn't pull things down that math exists still in that world exactly the same Really? Yeah, like no matter what gravity is doing or how atoms interact one plus one will still be two the math is a Yeah, it is a concept and a mechanism that is independent from physics So I think just establishing something that's completely independent from the physical world is interesting because I think consciousness and will Is independent of the physical world right right? Even though the mechanisms of thought are chemical chemistry physics math Yeah biology, but that consciousness is like math. It's a thing that isn't actually tethered to the physical world That's very religious of you to think you think it's religious.

Yeah, I think that's very spirit a very spiritual way of thinking That there's something i'm gonna try to embrace that. Yeah, um, that's not my ins like when I present that to you It doesn't tingle any spiritual things. It just simply says physics isn't the full picture Right. I like to hear him speak.

I hear a lot of one-sided take on free will and this again proclivity towards A.I mapping every atom in the planet right then modeling everything. Yeah, that's not a future I like thinking about the same So i'm always delighted when I hear contrary. Yeah, I agree. I like that.

Yeah, I'd like to have this Tim. I'll go on. Okay. I Yeah I know I was just thinking about it just like you were when you came out of the gym.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, um Well, good. So you just had a look on your face just now And it's pretty much the same one I think I had when I came out of the gym. Yeah, I couldn't remember what I was gonna say So I made that face But but yeah, I believe in free will you do yeah, I do and I think there's a lot of unknown And I think it's pretty arrogant to think everything can be predicted but I also Am shocked by what a I can do and increasingly so oh yeah, it is it is startling it is startling and it's not a couple years away It has an exponential growth curve and it's going to be Unleashed and you know, yeah, let's take the simplest example like the ai wants to do a fake computer-generated announcement by trump or biden Yeah, exactly it has the capacity to make 10,000 of those yep And then it has the capacity to release those and monitor the reaction gather that information and go right back at it a minute and a half after it played With another refined version that would be even more It power really and then get the feedback of that in refined. I know it could be done in an afternoon at the speed of which it both creates and evaluates The outcome yeah, it's really scary It could be you told like the truth is we're on the precipice of I don't know it could be utopia or dystopia Who knows it could be utopia.

I don't see how it could be next Tuesday We could have a complete care for cancer for diabetes for I mean truly that could be next Wednesday An announcement. Yeah, it's been done. It's been cracked. It they've already sent it to the lab the labs already run by computers It's already creating, you know, that'd be great.

That would be like I don't think that's utopia for me like having every I mean, of course I want that But that doesn't equal to me like a perfect place or a perfect life Well, there's where we get into the big overarching philosophical question that will probably be answered If you have no resistance in your life, you have no health resistance. You have no food Issues you have no need to create any wealth. Yeah What will the experience on planet earth without any hurdles to step over? Yeah, like my hunch is malays and depression Violence I think because ultimately we are animals we do want stimulation in some way and we want to be active and doing things And I think that is only thing will like revert.

Oh, I don't like it. I'm gonna try to stay neutral on it Oh, I see I'm gonna try to wait till I see some direction I'm not against using it But the idea that we aren't putting strict regulations like now is the time This is like if we could go back in time on social media and the internet Yeah Now we know that it can really get away from us now is the time for AI like we got to start monitoring and putting regulations now Before it's way way way way too late and all the damage is done, right? So I'm for it, but I'm for it in a controlled. Okay, so let me ask you hypothetical So we've now had social media for I don't know what it's been 13 years of whatever it's been You can now monocapad make and go back in time and you have you have the sole power to create some laws What law would you even create knowing now that all the data is in for 13 years?

Um I think there'd have to be some restrictions on the algorithm knowing so much about you and predicting so much about you I don't know. I mean, I have to I'd have to ask Tristan Harris Yeah, because when I think is interesting is there's a lot of people calling for regulation on it But I have yet to hear anyone propose a really concise Regulation for the thing we already have that we see problems with I haven't even heard anyone offer a correction for the problem We already started 13 years ago. I don't think I think I could ask anyone that question I just asked you and they actually wouldn't even know what law to go and act 13 years ago There were like, you know, there's been trials where instagram took away likes on some people That's part of it like understanding that these are actual dopamine. They're causing like a chemical reaction in your brain Right, maybe if we went back we could limit those things the way to get the actual chemical Affirmation from it as opposed to just put up your pictures and not a place to get full validation for your whole life Uh-huh.

So now that here's a part where I'm really pessimistic a I don't think it's possible to know what barriers to put up What guardrails to put up? I think what's coming is inconceivable to us So first of all, I don't I even think we know what the end result will be and enough to put guardrails in place I don't think we know well right now. I like look at the writer's strike right now They're saying there needs to be some rules with AI in this industry And I fully agree with that This is a time where there can be rules set where they cannot for scripts put in your old script and have it write a new script Like that should be in place. I believe so so, you know They are asking for it now and now is the time to start enacting some of it So it's like when it comes up, especially I think a good time now.

What do you think about here's a hypothetical? So let's say I return to script writing I start using chat g who P and Thank you. GPT GPT GPT dyslexic sweat dream. Yeah, the T's first or the P GPT The P so it's alphabetical.

That's all I'm gonna remember it GPT. I hate cracking Format that's the least fun part of writing so let's say I have my full idea I pitched the chat GPT to write the script without dialogue and I like writing dialogue And then so I just go in and I write all the dialogue. What's the verdict on that script? What do we file that script?

I mean, I don't like it I think it's like part of me and I'm a writer in the writer's field So I speak with someone who's like, I think I'm really close to this topic I'm not positive I think it's a little bit like in an era where there was a whole class of people who carried other people in their shoulders And then the horse came around and people were gonna try to Somehow legislate that you can't use the horse option because the human options there and you'll put them out of business for carrying people At some point I think you'd have to go like well, the humans can't compete with the horses So I'm really wondering Writing's interesting. It seems like it's like the first one on the firing block That's not the term is it? firing block Chopping block there we go You're kind of asking someone who let's say a producer Let's just say you're a producer you have an idea for a movie and you can deal with Meeting with 12 writers hearing pitches then getting a studio to agree to hire that writer then negotiating for however long in the contract Versus they can use that option. It's an interest.

There's a way a law you can't produce or use that option I don't know. I mean I think so personally yes I think because also what AI does you feed it stuff So you feed it the scripts for the sopranos to make a Mob show so they are using other people's intellectual property to do it. Yes, so that part I definitely think if your writing is Giving the machine the know-how then yeah, you deserve a residual that's happening a little bit like if you're writing you've seen all of this Ooh great point. I watch fault fiction and put as well interesting.

No, I'm not paying It's not systematic. No, but you can't you can't Sorry, but you can't write like Tarantino just because you know his voice that is very specific You could try people try every day. There are a million people trying to be Tarantino some are better than others But no one's him AI can actually do that Yeah, but Rob's one is really salient like my tone that I write in is hugely informed by the movies I was attracted to as a kid. I like violent stuff.

I like naughty stuff I am in many ways trying to write the movies that I loved that I saw that I responded to and so in a way that like I don't know what the There's no objective length to a movie, right? I only know there are two hours because all the ones I can sooner or two hours and I only know That dialogue that is about a different topic while in the middle of a very heated exciting thing is an interesting juxtaposition because Tarantino does it's a nonstop You know, there's like six assassins, but they're talking about Madonna and that's a useful tool that then gets replicated So in ways I think Rob's writing that we are AI well We're influenced by everything around us and we grow based on influence, but we can't we can't replicate the way AI is And that's why there's this thing. There's only five, you know, there's only five stories in Hollywood That's true, but then people make it their own and they same with music right every mathematical combination of notes has already been done Yeah, new music comes out every day. Yeah, because you're filtering it through your own system.

That is a unique system It's precisely not a robot, which is why it comes out different I think the issue though and is who's using it? Is this a tool that creatives are using to help with their own work or is it a studio trying to not have to pay someone and just plug into this Machine and well the WGA is saying the studios like they're against the studios Yeah, sure so it's these big corporations that already have a ton of money already They're trying to make even more money and pay less people and just plug into this machine versus a writer using it I own process. I agree. Look and again.

I'm a writer in the guild, but I'm also trying to be objective enough to go Okay, well, let's just say that the AI in a program becomes so sufficient that the three of us don't need an accountant We will have no problem saying well, no, no, I don't I don't gonna pay an accountant because I this thing does it better and it's virtually free So I will have the ability to relegate a whole occupation to extinction I'm free to do that But I'm gonna say these people aren't to aren't allowed to do the same thing with the job they don't like paying for it's a it's an interesting and weird Again, this is the tipping point of all of it because all these different occupations are gonna just fall like dominoes Right. That's what I'm saying. We have to make decisions now Are we allowing that are we gonna allow for that to happen to all industries? So that there are no more jobs that there is that is where this is heading that there's a chance where zero people have jobs Right, but so that the writer that's in the gill.

Let's say we win this battle The writer will be free in the WGA that just had his or her job protected To buy the google robot that will clean your house and they can fire their housekeeper and no one's gonna object to that So I do think you're gonna see a lot of kind of hypocrisy Which is like I'm gonna fight for my job, but I'm gonna quickly get rid of a bunch of other jobs that I don't want to pay for That's the hypocrisy. I feel like it's going to be really present through all this The checkouts have grocery stores and the self-cleaning robots And I actually think the way this will shake out is the way that all of the lopsided Economic and quality of this country will do which is our jobs will get protected and the lower class people will be absolutely fucked Yeah, and the WGA may win Yeah, but no one else will win this has to open up those conversations Are we are we willing to make every job obsolete? Yeah, and even check out ones like there is there's a whole foods in the valley where you You can nobody in there. Well, no, you can go through this line if you have amazon Whatever.

Yeah, you just scan your phone on the way in you put your groceries and bags and you walk out fucking leave You just leave it scans the whole thing for you. There's nobody right and so as a consumer I want to be able to use that I Oh, you know, it's really funny though. They did this hilarious SNL sketch where all these black people were like Yeah, we are not falling for that like walking out of the store with all this stuff Really funny. Yeah, all these white people like oh my god.

This is so cool. They're like um what? Anyway, I think it's gonna have to be so nuanced is this a job that is gonna create a ton of other jobs for people That we're replacing that's something to weigh versus are we just removing industries completely with no replacements? I mean, that's I hate to say what it what the future is right?

So the truck drivers a hotel car you just go down the list medical I would watch in the 60 minutes a I think and it's like you'd actually say I want a I to look at my MRI over a human that just the accuracy is in the high 80s versus like 60% So let me tell someone with their own health that they are obliged to use the human right and then okay So if I'm not obliged to use the human for my own health then Were you and I are assuming they I can't write Tarantino, right? No, they can write Tarantino But let's just assume or let's at least imagine that the AI is better writers than humans. Let's just imagine that that's possible. Yeah, then And I'm a writer.

I don't know what to say if I can't compete with the thing of the things better and you're a consumer that you Or you're asked off to pay your $12 and you want the very best thing I don't have a huge like to stand on I haven't seen it be better than us Right, but hypothetically speaking Yeah, if AI could get rid of writers entirely and the material got better then you're really campaigning To keep horse-drawn wagons in service in the era of automobile. Well, you are but it's weighing what's at the other end of this Adding a automobile feels like okay That's because that gets us places faster so that we can keep innovating and keep doing things This is ending human involvement in the world. Yeah, so we have to decide do is that a world we want to live in right now? You got to ask people to have a product that's inferior Because of ethics.

Yeah, and that's fine, but we have to acknowledge it. Well now we've moved into an era of every job to charity Yeah, it's worse. You're gonna do worse. It's gonna cost more and we're gonna do that I'd much rather live in a world like that than one where zero people have jobs and everyone's sitting around I'm so much rather have to check out how to stand in a line and check out at the grocery store for that I'm very happy to trade in I agree So I am a conservative right now on this point which is yes I'd like to keep and safeguard what we have but I also can admit the same debate raged at the industrial revolution It raged in the electrification of the country it raged in the automotive invention Yeah, people have never did go out of business the way it was predicted and you couldn't really stop it because people are gonna want the better thing in the market will so Part of me some part of me the devil's advocate part says we're assuming the worst We actually don't know we don't know what life on planet earth is with no hurdles I don't know it sounds pretty boring But again, we don't know and so you know a progressive would go like well, let's find out if we don't like it will change it Yeah, and that that is what I'm saying is proven to be wrong.

There's no changing We decide to go down that road or we right now make some decisions and then we get into a much bigger Problem which is unavoidable which is great the u.s. Decides this exactly now russia uses a either to make movies They make them with digital actors that are american those movies are better and now they have the biggest film industry Um, I mean things will change like crazy then because then there will be I don't know if they'll have the biggest film industry because we might have to have regulations on what we see I mean things will get crazy. Yes, and then you get into kind of a Dis So then that's a hard fact to admit so once you admit that then it's like well Do we want to be a header behind? That seems pretty obvious too.

We'd like to be ahead which means we kind of got to do it. No, I mean no I mean if we're breaking it down simplistically, yes, but if again it is going to require some major Ethical questions of is this how we want to be living as the human race and yeah, maybe we can't control Maybe it's it's gonna do weird stuff to globalization I don't know we might all be very separate at some point due to this And then people will choose they'll move there if they want that or not Look at on a computer phone airplane and yeah What if AI figures out teleporting like next week next week? No, no, literally gonna be next week. I don't think Emily burger for lunch.

I don't think you know, I'm willing I am willing To move to Russia. Yeah, no, I'm willing to wait till we have our trip planned to New York and have the Emily burger then Because again, well, what happened is we go every day we go for two weeks every day and then we never go again You're right. You don't think try? Well, we think yeah, we think all of this stuff we want we want.

Yeah, and we don't No, no, no, oh, yeah, you are you anyway? Okay, so are you born resilient? There's evidence to yes, there's a genetic component. Okay.

Yeah, um, I would imagine right? Yeah, there's a spectrum. Yes. Yeah, everyone's born resilient.

I'm gonna read some now Okay, genetic factors contribute significantly to resilient responses to trauma and stress a range of human genes and polymorphisms associated with NPY HPA access Nora drenet Nora dren Nora Nora drenergic Dopamine and drat dopamin or dopem. Oh my god. Dopem If you read molecule more this dopamin or dopem interject dopem interject Okay, listen that word is in molecule more and dopamination Yeah, every eighth word and I listen to it on tape and I try to repeat it as they're saying it Yeah, it sometimes takes me all night to be able to say it out loud. That's the hardest word.

I remember dopamin or Dopamin or dopamin Dopamin No, it's not it's not it's dopamin or dopamin or dopamin or dick dopamin or dick Hmm. I have to look it up Dopamin or dick or dopamin or dick. Yeah, it's a hard one. Do P.

A. M. I. N.

E. R. G. I.

C I think it's dopamin genetic No, because there's an ER. I know but I think that's what they say in the book It's much fewer syllables than what you're saying. Yeah, dopaminergic dopaminergic not dopaminergic dopaminergic it's switching Dopaminergic Dopaminergic And serotonergic Systems and BDNF have been linked to resilient phenotypes and py's and neuro peptide that produces so they're all HPA access is the hypo thalamic pituitary adrenal axis Genes that regulate HPA access functions play an important one shaping resilience. So all these things in our brains They say change that to allied or instead of axis.

Yeah, let's just harkens back to ugly time And then epigenetics Factors in resilience And you can have varying levels of all that Yep, predict how resilient you are. Yeah, you think you're resilient? I think so. Yeah, I do too really quick Can you think of times that you quit?

Like gave up. You mean give up not quit Yeah, I have very specific. It's always the same thing for me of when you quit Yes, and it's such a unique feeling which is I'm working on a car I don't have either a part or a tool something stops me Or maybe I can't figure it out. Uh-huh and I work on it working on my knuckles get bloody and blah-blah And then I quit which is the weirdest feeling for me.

Yeah, and then I go away And then I'm ruminating kind on it for about an hour and a half And then I think of some other strategy and then I return but the quitting when I quit I'm certain I'm like well, I can't do it and then I I walk away which is very hard. But if you come back Can we even say that's quitting? Well? Yes, because at the point that I walk away Yeah, I don't have an answer and I don't think I'm gonna ever have an answer for it Sure, but maybe the resilience piece is that you the rumination further decide I'm gonna go back I'm gonna try different things.

Yeah, or I mean ultimately it's like I'm gonna get a professional involved Right. I mean, I'm not gonna like just throw the car in the trash. Yeah, let's sit there and rot for eternity But I just got to think in my normal life. That's the only time I like really remember that I often walk away from things Yeah, I quit and then I generally don't I think of something, right?

That's a good really good question. I don't I don't know. I'm sure I have I guess we like we quit diets We quit I know I really start diets kind of for well just two years ago. You went to know me Oh, yeah, I know you're right.

That is a diet. I don't consider that a diet because that was for the environment Yeah, but it's the way of eating. Yeah, you're right. Um and I did stop doing that or maybe Did you start?

I did and I had that weird system. It was like two days a week I can eat meat for one meal and then one day a week. I can eat anything I want then two days It was a little convoluted We're just a gradual forgot about it. Yeah, I think I just did forget This from actively quit Um, yeah, we ever started like a house project like I'm gonna paint that wall or whatever.

Oh god. No, see I don't I think I know my capabilities also So I'm not really looking at something and thinking like oh, I think I would never look at a car and think I think I could be the One to fix this. Well, I think part of the reason that people don't think they're mechanical is because they don't think they Have the truly just the most basic approach. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so I don't I've never either like it started with that You know, I had shitty cars and they broke all the time and I couldn't afford it get a mechanic I would not think I know but I would start taking pieces off and I can and you could Listen, you could look at some any part of the car and you could pretty quickly see where it's fastened You go, there's eight bolts on this intake and um, it doesn't appear to be broken on top, right? But I can take these eight bolts out and I can put them to the side and I can keep track of those eight bolts And you do that and then you lift the intake off, right? And you set it by there, but you know, I took those out I know I put those back in and you're just keeping track and now the intake's off and you start looking a little closer at some other things like oh, I can see the lifters now. Oh my god, that piece is clearly broken or there's oil spurting out right there or that right?

You're gonna visually see something and you're just going step by step going like oh, I can remove eight bolts And then guess what? I can remove six bolts on that part and then I can remove three other bolts And that's the process of being mechanical. Yeah that you trust that if you can remove the bolts You can put them back in and that's how you teach and then after you've done that several times now You actually know how to do it, but it just starts with taking the cover off the vacuum Oh, let me look at how this piece of plastic is over there. Oh, I see there's six screws Yeah, let me take those off and I'll take the cover up now.

Look, I'm not even good at like when the dustbuster is full And I'm like, how do I get this thing off just to get the lint out? Yeah, that can be hard Me a while to figure out how to get that off Well, I can tell you that can be harder because every other thing generally has bolts and screws In these quick release bags. Sometimes it's much harder to find the little button That's supposed to be easy to find but bolts They're impossible to miss because they can't be covered or you can access them But I you know what tools to use to remove them and stuff But again, if I put the whole toolbox in front of you and you look at the shape of the bolt you go, okay That's uh a hex head. It's got six sides Uh, let me go find the thing.

Well, that's nice that you believe in me like that. I believe in everyone. I think it's actually just Sorry Everyone is a compliment to you, but you wanted it more specific. Yeah, I thought it was but it wasn't Well, and that's fine.

That's totally fine. Then I actually feel better about sticking to my I don't think I could do it Okay, some people just are more savvy that way. That's okay I'm not like mad at myself about that I guess I'm just urging people to try to take some stuff apart Yeah And just know that it's as simple as like I took that bolt out I will have to put it back in and I just keep things Organized when I take them apart I keep the bolts that go with the intake with the intake then I take the bolts with the distributor and I keep it with that Yeah, I guess I don't think Anyone explains that approach to anyone in school so I don't think they know to think about it. That's true I just looked at my watch and it said three away.

Oh, whoa I still said I had a really kind of like whoa what the fuck happened? Oh my god, that's fine Wait, wow. So are you so you're a person when you got a town you change your watch It depends how long I'm there. Wow If I'm not there long I don't change it because my phone will say the local time and it's easier for me to know what time it is at home But I was there for I guess five days.

Yeah, and I thought no, I need to change my watch Can I just know that about you? It's real learn something new. Well, it's really interesting. It's really like it's a feel it's how long I'm there If I'm in St.

England where the math is actually kind of challenging Yeah, I'll probably keep it in that situation You went on there for a couple weeks just because it's gonna be so much easier for me to check like determine what time Is at home? Oh, you because you want to know what time is at home sometimes Yeah, if I'm gonna call oh sure if like you're gone by yourself, I see or even like I got I'm gonna call an agent You know, I'm still in contact with everyone back here even all with the whole family. Oh my god Anyway, okay the tiny marsupial that you said in in Australia I'm gonna read some marsupials. Okay.

Okay. Well, you know what if I say I will. Yeah. Yeah, the first one I'm gonna try is the Ning Bing No, it's the world's fear system and smile is marsupial.

Oh, it looks like this. Oh, no, that's too tiny. Oh, this is a size of like a squirrel Okay, what about the pygmy possum? Nope.

Okay. Got a cute name on top of being cute and bossy Could it be the antachinis? I don't think so. It looks like this.

Nope. Okay. That's too small. That looks like a mouse smells like marsupial Noombat numb bat.

No There's so many marsupials, right? We just hear about kangaroos. I know there are a lot spot tail quoll Oh, wait, quall or quoll. Let me see that.

I don't think that's it, but we're getting closer. Okay. Oh, those are seldom seen No, these are all on front. It says as fierce as they are.

These are extroverts the one I'm talking about. Oh, okay Brush-tailed foscagale. Nope. Oh, the greater bilby.

Oh my god a bilby. Is that it? Huh? I can't see but no, that's not it.

It looks like it moves bipedally. I mean it hops It looks like a very very miniature kangaroo. Not a tree kangaroo. Not a green ringtail possum.

No, not a greater glider. No Yeah, hmm. Okay. Well, that was from but that left out a bunch of marsupials.

Well, those were 10 weird Australian marsupials You've never heard of. Oh, well, no, these are popular. Oh, yeah I didn't know that. Is it a wallaby?

No, but those are really tiny kangaroos wallabies, but these are even smaller than wallabies. Okay I'm gonna read the most common marsupials now. Right. Right.

Opossums, Tasmanian double, kangaroo, koala, wombat. Nope, I love wombat. So they look like ewoks. Wallabies.