Jazz Beat 41 - Anat Cohen

This is New England Public Radio's Janz Beat. I'm Tom Rini with a podcast edition of my Janz blog, which you can find at n E P R dot net. This edition of Janz Beat features the interview I conducted with Anat Cohen in 2008, when she was the Billy Taylor artist in residence at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. Over the course of an hour long conversation, Cohen discusses her upbringing in a musical family from Tel Aviv.

Her brothers Yuval and Avi Shai are also great jazz players who are now based in New York. The passion she developed for Brazilian music when she was a student at Berkeley 20 years ago and played extensively with Brazilian musicians in Eastern Massachusetts. The influence of Sidney Bechay, Louis Armstrong and John Holtrane on her playing and repertoire. And about the growth of jazz in Israel and her prominence among the profusion of jazz musicians who have immigrated from Israel to the US over the past two decades.

The interview includes ex-erps of Anat's music. Since it was taped a decade ago, her career has continued to flourish through international touring and the release of several critically acclaimed albums. Her latest is a duo performance with pianist Fred Hirsch, in which they played this Duke Ellington Billy Stradhorn standard, Eastfahon. I'm Tom Rini, host of jazz on the mode here on WFCR.

It's a pleasure this afternoon to welcome Anat Cohen, who is here at the University of Massachusetts this week, is the Billy Taylor artist in residence, and is appearing on Friday, November 7th in the Jazz All-A-Mode series at the University of Massachusetts. It's a pleasure to have you here today, Anat, welcome. Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. You've been here for a few days?

I've been here this is my second day. Second day. It's been, I've been having a great time. I got to meet some students at UMass and I just came here from and GCC.

GCC. Greenfield Community College. And it's been really nice to share some of my experience and my thoughts and my views about music and have the students interacting and asking questions. And it's been really nice.

Now you are a native of Tel Aviv, is that right? Yes, I was born in Tel Aviv. I grew up there. And when I was about 20, I went to study in Boston in Massachusetts.

And I am still in the States a few years later. Now you, however, come from what I presume is a very musical family back home. Your brothers, you, Vol, and Abhisheye are fine musicians in their own rights, making music with you occasionally. And tell me a little bit about your family background as their music ends.

There's always been music in it. Definitely my parents love music. The radio was always on. There was something playing.

I don't know how it happened. Three siblings from Israel end up being three jazz musicians. Abhisheye and I live in New York. You've all lived in Tel Aviv.

So obviously we don't meet that often. But when we do meet, the first thing we do is we grab our horns and we play. Because when we were kids, that's what we did. There was, of course, some neighbors and games and other things we did beside music.

But music pretty much filled up all our time from junior high school for the arts and high school for the arts and conservatory after school. And my parents were always there supporting. Never forced us to do anything we don't want to do. But I think since we were the three of us in it, and it's such a nice social thing to do, we had other friends playing.

We really loved it and we, I guess, we stuck with it. So there was a lot of encouragement from your parents. Now, where did the jazz enter the picture here? Were your parents jazz lovers?

Or was there a jazz in the culture of Israel? Did you hear it in the streets? Definitely not. It's not the most popular music in Israel now.

But there were some really good musicians in Israel. Some of them, when we were kids, were already musicians that went to study abroad and came back and brought the spirit to Israel, some very passionate teachers. And some people that came there, the guy from New York, Walter Blanding Jr., came there and stayed there a few years. After I moved to the United States.

And one of my mentors and the main figure that was there was Arnie Lawrence that came to Israel and brought his beautiful spirit to jazz and spread it. His love to music, his love to people just spread it all around and tell people that music is beyond notes. It's about spirit and beauty. Arnie came to Israel from New York with a bit of a mission, I would say.

Well, yeah, I mean, he had a little political mission. He wanted to, through music, connect the Israelis and the Arabs to play together. I'm assuming he did do that to a certain extent. I was already living in the United States when he managed to really go for it all the way.

He made a center for music in Jerusalem. I mean, got people to play and they traveled and they played in the occupied territories. They played in Israel. They played out of Israel, outside of Israel.

But beyond whoever played, just any, you know, he would just collect like the semi-messiah. He would just walk with his stick around Israel and just point at people and gather them. And every Wednesday we would used to go out to Jerusalem and it didn't matter who was there, what kind of instruments. If we had drums, there was no bass, there was a piano, guitar.

He just managed to make a musical evening out of anything with his view and the way he makes music. So it was an incredible experience. Arnie Sun, now Eric lives in Southern Vermont. It's one of his homes.

And as someone we've gotten to know and hear played a good deal in recent years. When Arnie passed a year or two ago, we were in touch with Eric around that time. You're reminding me too of Walter Blanding. I remember Walter talking about his time there.

Refresh my memory a little bit more about Walter, who's the tenor saxophonist, where's with Winton Marcellus, among others? Yeah, he's been playing with the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra for years now. I'm not sure what he did before. I know some friends that know him from the LaGuardia High School.

He's a New Yorker. And he's a beautiful person. Again, what students need beyond understanding notes is to get the spirit of jazz, the spirit of listening, the spirit of communicating and actually managing to have conversations for music. And it's nice to have people that go and they spread the spirit better than say, OK, these are the chords.

These are the notes you're supposed to play. And that's it. Go for it. It's nice when you have people to talk about communicating.

Now, spirit is something that seems you have a very effusive spirit as a player and as a performer. I've had the pleasure of seeing you in concert a few times. And certainly a lot of spirit coming off the bandstand. And I thought at this moment, we would take a minute or two to listen to a selection from your recent recording called Notes from the Village.

Is this a global village that you're referring to here? Is this Greenwich Village? Is it a kind of combination of the two? Yeah, it's all of them.

The small villages around the world. It's Greenwich Village. It's the global village. It's any village.

And the opening selection on this is Washington Square Park. How representative is this tune of what you would call your vision? It's pretty representative, although it's Washington Square Park. The tune is a journey.

And I wrote it after spending quite a bit of time in Washington Square Park. And when you go there in the weekends, you see people get together and they make music, all different kinds of music. And anything goes really. And you can travel in and out of different worlds, just in that little park.

And that's kind of little symbol of New York City when you can travel in and out of different worlds in New York City. And that's also the story of my life that's so far. I've been fortunate to travel to different places in the world and absorb some of different cultures that got inside the music that I write. So I guess it is representative.

Well, let's take a couple of minutes now to listen to some of this on our co-in composition, Washington Square Park. Not co-ins recording Washington Square Park from this on-stick records release called Notes from the Village. Then we hear you playing Sopranos saxophone, which is one of the wins you play. You are quite renowned for your clarinet playing.

But what came first? The clarinet was first. Then I picked up the tenor saxophone. And one day I was jogging with listening to John Coltrane playing Big Nick.

I was playing Soprano and I had this decision. That's it. I got to stop playing Soprano. So the Soprano was last.

Was that the first time you'd heard Big Nick? No, but that's the first time it occurred to me how beautiful the saxophone, the Soprano saxophone is, and how much I want to try to go for it. That's a beautiful tune with commemorating Big Nick Nicholas, a great tenor saxophone player, but curious the train played Soprano on that when he recorded it back in the 60s. Well, here are some of John Coltrane's music in a few minutes.

But let me ask you two about this group, which seems to be a pretty consistent band. And tell us a little bit about the players on the band. On the recording? On the recording we have Jason Linder, a wonderful piano player, a true New Yorker born and raised in New York.

Jason Linder and piano, Omer Avital and Israeli bass player that also has been doing a lot of work in New York. And Daniel Friedman, another native New Yorker, born and raised in Soho. So Jason, Omer and Daniel, they have been playing a long time together. I used to hear them play together, actually, when I was still a student in Boston.

So I was very happy when I could start making music together with them. And they are all very open-minded musicians. They have their own projects, their own bands. And they also play with me.

They have interest in many different kinds of music, all through the Big and Prellic, all through improvisation and interaction. But a lot of world music and cooperation and a lot of, they're in the mood for. So I love playing with them. Music really goes anywhere.

Yes, indeed. It seems to be a very simpatico report that you have with your bandmates and the world music element. In your music it's hard to describe it simply. It seems to be something that evolves very organically in your music.

And I wonder if there's a kind of new world music fusion that you're conceiving of. Well, it's hard to me. I don't think I'm conceiving anything new. But I think this, as we all have access to so many different kinds of music, one click on YouTube and iTunes.

And you get to hear sounds you never heard before. Then people get more choices and more ingredients to throw into their own soup. So it's just a certain combination that I think I make that maybe is not new, maybe just different than someone else's. Maybe someone else will have a little more salt or pepper.

Well, a lot of your salt and pepper seems to be drawn from the Brazilian tradition. I love Brazil. And where did that exposure begin in your life? Where did that appreciation begin?

It all started with one beer. No, I'm just kidding. I lived in Boston. I started to play with Brazilian people in Boston.

There's a big Brazilian community there. I didn't know about that. And I started to play Brazilian jazz, basically taking some of Brazil's more popular songs, but not necessarily Bostonova, more songs like Bicopause, like Tony Neuoth, Idulobo, Milton Aseman, the greatest songwriters of Brazil. I'm playing them instrumentally now, the forms of those songs.

They're not as easy as some of the American songbook, the traditional jazz, A.A.B.A. forms. They are a little more complex. But it's been a great challenge.

I've been in love with the music. I've been in love with the people. I've been in love with the culture. I was around the World Cup in 1998.

I hung out a lot with Brazilians. And in 2000, I went for the first time to Brazil, and my life was never the same. That's amazing. We are aware that the Eastern Massachusetts has large Brazilian communities around Boston and Framingham.

And did that connection get fostered right at Berkeley? Or was it more out in the streets? It were students that went to Berkeley. I met them.

We established a band. And we were playing weekly. And a lot of people from the area used to come by and hang out. So I guess, a combination.

Well, I'd like to listen to another recording or two. And first off, to hear Louis Armstrong strutting with some barbecue. And of course, we are thinking about that. Because on your recording noir, you make a beautiful medley of Samad Deo Fue, and strutting with some barbecue.

And before we hear the Louis Armstrong, could you just talk for a moment about what brought that amazing combination of songs and cultures together? Well, it all happened by mistake. I was playing in an ace field in a bar, and I asked the band to play Samadio Foe. And by the time we ended the tune, I realized we're playing Strutting with some barbecue.

So I then I realized, OK, actually, there are some similarities between the tunes. And when we were recording noir, the album, which has the Enzie Corca Strine, which is a modified big band. It's a big band with three cellos, and guitar, there's no piano in it. So I thought, let's try to make an arrangement of those two songs.

Since you have an Argent sumble, it's kind of more interesting to really make an arrangement, an official arrangement. So I asked Odet Levery, which is a brilliant arranger, to combine them, and he did it more obviously. Well, before we hear a little bit of that, let's hear the Louis Armstrong original of Strutting with some barbecue. So there's Louis Armstrong and his Hot Five, with the first recording made of Strutting with some barbecue, it's written by Louis' wife, Lil Hardin Armstrong.

And I'm curious on where you're describing this, as something that happened kind of spontaneously in the East Village, Jam Sessions, type of setting. How did you know the tune? Well, I love Louis Armstrong. I have been recently, I realized that I think probably someone the first jazz I've ever listened to was Louis Armstrong and Elofigero, Louis Armstrong with the Hot Five at 7th.

I don't know how it happened, that 14-year-old girl from Tel Aviv end up going with a court player, and listening to Louis Armstrong. But I did, and I'm very happy I did, because Louis Armstrong, again, we're talking about spirit. He's just one of the best performers I've ever seen in my life. I mean, I didn't see him live, I've seen him obviously on tapes.

But the spirit, the kindness, he was just a person that would never judge anybody until they prove him wrong, and was very generous and very loving. And the music that he played just shared so much love, that I'm so grateful that that that's some of the first jazz I heard, because it definitely attracted me to continue and pursuing jazz career. Now, among, let's say, your peers among musicians, do you find a similar appreciation for Armstrong? With, you know, I get to play a lot of, I play with people that dedicate most of their life to the music of New Orleans and Louis Armstrong.

So, yeah, I think every musician appreciates and loves Louis Armstrong. There's nothing, what's not like really. Of course, choosing to play the style is just a matter of choice. Some people choose to dedicate their life to to study it, and to play it, some people want to play music from a different era.

So that's just a matter of preference. But I think everybody appreciates and loves Louis Armstrong. Well, you brought together music here by two, Louis's, Louis Bonfant and Louis Armstrong, with this medley that we'll now hear a little sampling of from Anat Cohen and here, the medley of Sombre de O'Feyou, and Strutten with some barbecue. Mm.

Anat Cohen with Sombre de O'Feyou, and Strutten with some barbecue from the Anzac Records recording called Noire Notes. Is that your Soprano saxophone there? That's, again, my Soprano saxophone. That's my Soprano saxophone.

Beautiful. We have loved this record, played it a great deal, and just to find that medley so inspiring, bringing together those two cultures in that arrangement. Oh, Dead Love, Levery was the arrangement. Yeah.

Claring at first instrument, Claring at models. Who were the clarinet players that inspired you? Well, obviously, as a beginner, Benny Goodman was one of the main guys. But by the time I got into jazz officially, I picked up a tennis saxophone.

I wasn't listening to any clarinet players. I just started to listen to ten players. I fell in love with Ex-the-Gour-John, with Sonny Rollins, John Coltrane, and the clarinet was left behind for a while. Uh-huh.

But you were motivated to pick it back up again? I was motivated to pick it up again, yes. I was just a few years ago, maybe five years ago, or maybe actually more by now. But I slowly picked it up, playing, getting inside the Brazilian genre called Shoro, C-H-O-O, the Shoro music.

Since it's beautiful music, it can be very, very, it can be very emotional. I found a style that the clarinet actually fits in. Nobody, you know, protest when I try to play it, like, unlike some people when you want to bring clarinet to jazz, at the time when clarinet was a little bit out of fashion. And I picked the clarinet up again.

It was a big challenge to get the technique again, but through Shoro music, I got it back. Through Shoro music, yes. And that beautiful record you've made of Shoro music in the last year or so. There seems to be a little renaissance of clarinet and jazz, more and more people between Don Byron and Ken Pepelowski and your work and others who are certainly hearing the instrument a little more consistently in recent years.

But did you find the tenor saxophone itself? You mentioned Dexter Gordon and Sonny Ramos. Do you find the tenor a much more sort of representative sound of jazz? Well, at the time, yes, because at the time I concentrated in most straight ahead jazz and music from the 60s around there.

So yeah, definitely the tenor sax was very, very powerful in those times. And these specific voices of Dexter and Coltrane, I mean, their voices are so strong and so influencing that, of course, they kind of drew me in. So I wasn't thinking about it necessarily, just the instrument is just very powerful. It's sort of energy.

And do you find the clarinet? There's less resistance to the clarinet than the jazz idiom today? Well, I don't notice the resistance anymore because I realize that I can play the clarinet and it doesn't have to fit a style or an era. I can play the clarinet and use it as an extension of my musicality.

I can use it as part of my personality in whatever music I feel that it fits as long as physically I can play it and you can hear it, then it fits. And of course, when I make my shows, then I will balance it with certain styles and I would feel that certain songs, like I want to play saxophone on and other songs. I want to play clarinet. But it's not being associated in my mind with just the swing era or just new audience music.

It just became an instrument that can express much more than that and very lyrical, very poetic, or can be very aggressive. It really depends how much you abuse it or not abuse it. So yeah, the clarinet is definitely more dominant in my life and out there probably. Getting back to John Coltrane, you have recorded at least two of John Coltrane's compositions that I'm aware of after the reen and Lonnie's lament.

And I'd like to play a little bit of Lonnie's lament by Coltrane and just to ask you beforehand, what it was that in particular you find in this piece of music that drew you to it, that inspired you to make a recording of it yourself. Well, then of course, like in many cases, a melody of a song gets to me and it stays. You hear it once and it just leaves such a strong impression that it becomes part of you. Lonnie's lament has this meditating melody.

It definitely drew me in. So I loved the song, I loved his version, and of course, trying to record a song. When I was making my album Poetica, which I specifically wanted to play only clarinet on, I thought it would be, I really got a kick out of the idea of playing clarinet on Lonnie's lament because try to play Lonnie's lament on tennis acts of fun, not to sound like Coltrane. It's like what's, it's almost impossible.

His sound is so dominant and so powerful. Then it's, you know, we played on clarinet because it was a real challenge. And we used it on the recording. I had an Omeravetale and the bass player arranged for a string quartet in addition to the jazz quartet.

So it was really nice to combine the roots of some, where I came from, the classical world, playing clarinet with the string quartet in the intro, and then take it a little bit for the spirit of Coltrane, the African spirit, the rhythm, the strong beat, and kind of make an arrangement that will include the strings and the jazz quartet. Well, let's hear a little bit of Coltrane's original recording now of Lonnie's lament. John Coltrane with Lonnie's lament from Coltrane's recording Crescent, McCoy, Tyler, Jimmy, Garrison, and Calvin Jones heard with Coltrane, Lonnie's lament. And Anad Cohen, our guest here at WFCR, recorded Lonnie's lament a couple of years ago for the Anad's records release called Poetica.

And Anad, you've mentioned that you played clarinet, but that was almost a more obvious choice for performing this. But before we hear a little taste of your recording of it, did you conceive of this as a kind of clarinet with string quartet idea? Where did that come from specifically? Well, it was almost a coincidence when I mentioned to Omeravetale that I wanted to do an album where I play only clarinet.

He said, I was thinking of writing for clarinet and string quartet and said, excellent idea. Let's combine what you want to do. And I want to do, and I came up with a list of songs and we talked about it. And Lonnie's lament was one of it.

So here comes Omeravet's arrangements for the string quartet and the band. Very nice. Anad Cohen, Lonnie's lament. That's Anad Cohen, our guest, Anad Cohen, playing John Coltrane's lament.

Arranged by Omeravetale, the bassist, heard playing Arco, bowing the bass on that arrangement. And Omeravet is a longtime colleague and collaborator. It's kind of interesting. He was actually a more of a longtime colleague and collaborated with my older brother, Yuval.

And I was way before I played any jazz. I used to go here, Yuval and Omeravet playing in Tel Aviv, all Charlie Parker music. They all were very, very inside, bebop. And I knew him.

He went to the same high school that I went to just a few years. He's a little older than me. So I've known him for many years. But finally, we got to collaborate on Poetica.

Well, speaking of Tel Aviv, Israel, you are here this week as an artist in residence at UMass. You've been at the University of the Greenfield Community College. Were you exposed to similar artists in residence in Israel in your, say, high school years? I cannot say I remember that I was.

No. There was not really much exchange with other programs. I don't remember any specific artists. Maybe it's just my bad memory.

But I don't remember any specific artists that came and talked to us. But I do remember there was only one jazz festival every year in a lot in the south point of Israel. And I remember seeing Joe Henderson for the first time ever. And I didn't even know who he was.

And wow. Who else was on that festival that drew you there? Well, I don't remember who else. It was a thing.

We liked jazz. And you just go to a lot for the festival. It was the whole operation, because they liked it. The whole five hours from Tel Aviv, which is the most you can go anywhere in Israel from Tel Aviv.

So it was a big deal to go there. So you heard Joe Henderson, the great Joe Henderson. Oh, yeah. Wow.

What a musician. Mm-hm. Bebop, your brother was playing Bebop in Tel Aviv. Now, I'm trying to get a little more sense of what the scene was like on the ground.

Because I'm really impressed that in recent years, and you're certainly representative of this. But more and more Israeli jazz musicians making an impact on the US scene. Their recordings coming in and just knocking me out. It is interesting, right?

I mean, people often ask me, what is it about Israel that all these musicians, jazz musicians, is coming out of? I mean, there are actually a lot of great classic musicians coming out as well. And there have been for a while. But I feel in the last few years, definitely the presence of the Israeli people.

In New York and in other places, it's been growing. I forgot to mention, on my album, there's one of those young people, Gilad Exelman, a fantastic guitar player that also already has a couple of albums out and has been playing around and getting a name out for himself and him and many other musicians. I think, again, a generation that went to study abroad came back and is bringing up a whole new generation. It's already been maybe, I mean, many students that are coming out and they all have this dream.

I want to go to New York and live in Harlem and be a jazz musician. Some of them end up living in Queens and Brooklyn. But some of them actually really have this dream of going to Harlem because they love jazz from the 60s and they really want to go for the whole experience. But I wonder if, you know, living in an intense place like Israel where you're exposed to, you cannot escape reality.

Reality is in your face daily. Every hour you hear on the news goes right on the hour and you'll hear whatever happens, whatever updates you hear it again and again, everywhere people always talk about politics and about the situation. So somewhat, I wonder if jazz is just a way to express yourself and it gives people the opportunity to really bring what they have inside and feel free to just express themselves. Maybe that's why I tracked all those young musicians about jazz to go and play it.

Otherwise, I really don't know how come all those young jazz musicians coming out of Israel, I have no explanation. I remember Israeli friends back when I was in college where I continually just sort of amazed at this American music that there was not the exposure to it back home at that time. That's apparently there is today. Well, today it's easy to get exposed to anywhere really, any music almost.

So yeah, definitely a fascination about United States and jazz in Israel definitely. You mentioned the iPod and YouTube and all of that earlier. How central is that to your life and to your access to the music? You're talking to a man whose exposure to this was through the constant quest for vinyl and it always involved a schleps somewhere or other to pick it up and to search it out and to discover oftentimes it was just unavailable out of prints, all of that.

And it seems as though everything is kind of at our fingertips today. It is. Sometimes if you didn't program your mind that it is so close to you, then you forget sometimes. But when I remember to say, oh, I heard about this musician or here's musician, I suddenly realized, wait, I never saw this person playing.

And then you just put the name in YouTube. And suddenly you see everybody alive that they're there just performing and then with close ups. And it's amazing. I mean, I think younger people today, they don't even realize how easy it is for them to get access to all this information.

So it's becoming more and more dominant in our lives. And musicians get together. And when you're on the road, you end up being in one of the people's hotel room or in the lobby. Someone puts a computer and everybody just start to choose your favorite YouTube clips.

And you just hang out. You make a YouTube party. And it's becoming more and more. It's a great educational hang.

So yeah, it's dominant. Well, I seem to notice, too, that the more direct connection to the music through the visual, the film, the video, as well as the oral access to a recording seems to be influencing a much more sophisticated level of synthesis of different cultural idioms in the music. And yours again, I think, is a really brilliant example of that, of drawing from your own tradition, from the Brazilian, from the American idioms, to fashion something really quite compelling. Well, yeah, it's finding our own combinations.

It's a fine what's compelling to us and what might be compelling to others. It's a mystery and it's a constant quest. Well, John Coltrane's music with Herd Lonnie's lament and notes from the village, who most recently recorded a play, After the Rain. Do you have anything to tell us about what drew you to this particular Coltrane piece?

Well, I actually remember listening to it one day after the rain, I was sitting in Boston and we were rehearsing and I was just sitting on the doorstep, looking outside, and the sun came out and you saw the rain was just evaporating from the earth and the steam was going up and the sun was coming out and I was listening to the music and I fell in love with the song. So this vision has stayed with me ever since when I arranged it with Jason Linder for the album. Well, it's here, John Coltrane's original recording now of After the Rain. From John Coltrane's After the Rain.

We're talking with Anad Cohen here at WFCR. She's appearing at the University of Massachusetts on Friday, November 7th in the Jazz All the Month series at UMass this wall and it's a pleasure to have her company this afternoon as she's here as an artist and resident of the University of Massachusetts this week, the Billy Taylor artist in residence. So After the Rain by Train is something that you play on notes from the village on your new record. They're on clarinet, Lenny's Lament, on Poetica.

And we have an opportunity to hear your tenor saxophone playing at, I know that's kind of what captured my appreciation fast when I heard you playing Jerry Mulligan's as Catch Can on your first record, Place in Time. That was a very impressive debut, I must say. So it's just so long ago. I've got it, that was.

And before we hear you playing tenor on your new record, I'd like to ask you just of the experience that you've had. It seems as though there's a kind of acceleration of career, of recorded output, of touring, of media exposure, all of that. How does all of this feel at this point in your life to? It's about time.

You know, it's kind of a kids' chair once said, I remember teacher in his round-time with a kid's chair. I went through a long way for an overnight success. So it's kind of interesting because everybody's, we're at it every day, all day, 24-7. We're playing, we're being side people on many shows.

We travel with a bunch of bands, we do everything. And we get to do our own, we do a lot of different shows, and then we get to little better gigs and better gigs. And you know, you have, you find a record label that is willing to put out your records, in that case, NC Records is my own label. So it's becoming even easier.

But I feel very fortunate and I want to keep going at it and keep playing, keep performing, keep traveling, keep writing music, get new ideas, maybe get more instruments than, you know, if I can play more. It's so much to learn and so little time. And Anzic, you mentioned as your label, so you're involved in this from the entrepreneurial side of things as well. Oh yeah, it's fun to be a business person.

Yeah, it's interesting to, you know, NC Records is a relatively new label. It only launched the label last year in the beginning of 2007. But I think the most important one, I'm learning about the other NC artists so far have been learning is that the artist has to be involved with what is going on constantly. It's on the business side of things.

Because usually artists just want to do the music and then have someone else do all the rest of the work, but then when someone else does the rest of the work, the artist always gets surprised. They don't know the numbers, they know what's going on. And Anzic Records artists are involved in all the time, what's going on, what will be the cost of making a city, what should be the cost of printing, what will be the cost of the PR, how much they willing to spend for each musician that they're going to record, because eventually when they need to make the money back, they're going to know exactly what would cost. And I just couldn't stand it at artists wearing the dark from any other situation that I've been so far so I'm so grateful to have a clear view with NC Records of what's going on.

Now your label has recorded a real nice date on a friend of ours from West Hartford, Joel Fram. Oh yes. And you and Joel are part of a collective called Waverly 7. Correct.

How did that originate and the repertoire for that band is fascinating, I love it. Where did Waverly 7 now begin? Well, Waverly 7 began in the passion of the producer of the album that wanted to capture the entertaining part, you know, so many times, musicians play and they forget about the audience and the audience ends up forgetting about them and really capture what counts from the idea of recording all Bobby Darren's songs. And Bobby Darren was an incredible performer, entertainer.

So we wanted to capture the spirit of entertainment, the spirit of swing, the gestures that he performed not necessarily wrote, but all the songs, it's a double album that he performed and which shows a bunch of New York musicians that are band leaders that maybe with their band, they play music that is completely different, and the traditional swing. And what happens when you take all these people together and you capture the energy and you make them talk, speak in their common language which is swing. And Joel Fram is one of these people, Jason Lindner, Javier Chacon, Manuel Valera is on the record, Daniel Freeman, Barack Mori. Oh really great musicians and Joel Fram is definitely one of my idols.

I was so happy to be on the same record date with him and I'm so happy to be able to go out and hear and play. He is such a great musician. I urge you all to check out Joel Fram. Me too.

So before we hear this final selection, I just want to note one of the things, which is it may be a little bit heretical in certain jazz circles, but to be talking about entertainment and thinking about the audience. And such old-fashioned notions as those, where's that coming from? Retro. We're back to the source.

Well, I don't mean entertaining as far as, okay, you got to make the audience dance and you got to compromise on the music. I'm talking about keep playing high level music and make the music you want to play, but remembering that you are there for the audience and the audience is there for you. So there is a relationship and it's a choice. Some people just want to play the music they want to play and it's okay, the audience can accept it and close their eyes and pretend whatever they want to pretend if the music is high enough.

But I think it's important to acknowledge the audience and their existence in the same room. So there comes the entertainment part. Now in your performances, there's a kind of energy of vivaciousness that is part of your stage presence and it seems to be very organic, very genuine response and movement with the music. But again, Janessa is a kind of sort of mythical wooden figure on a stage, appearing very impassive generally and you brought a very different type of energy and style to the bandstands.

Any particular models for that for you? You know, I don't have any specific model that I'm going after. I mean, I just learned to be free on stage when I used to play, when I lived in Boston, I played with the Alex LVR, fantastic musician. He has a band called Mango Blue and I used to play with this band and it's a Latin band.

And remember, picking up the steps, the Latin steps and being on stage and as their horn section, I was actually with Miguel's and on in their horn section. And when we don't play, the music is so grooving that what are you going to do? But there's nothing else to do but just be there and dance. So I remember it was very self-conscious at the beginning, wait a second, I'm just standing in front of an audience and I'm dancing.

I'm a musician, I'm not supposed to dance, but then I learned to be very comfortable just being myself and if the music is going to make me dance, then I'm going to move and it's going to make me jump, I'm going to jump and if it's going to make me want to stand still and concentrate and that's what I'm going to do. So I really go after what I feel and I don't think about it as what is the correct way to be on stage. Well, we look forward to seeing you tomorrow night and thanks again for joining us this afternoon. And before we go, let's hear a selection from Notes from the Village that we heard Washington Square Park from earlier.

Now this is La La Bae for the naive ones. Tell us if the title and this is your tenor saxophone feature on this new record. Yeah, well, obviously the title came after the song was written. The beginning of the song is more of a La Bae spirit, it's very simple like a children song and then it opens up to something that develops to something pretty intense.

So it's almost like playing La La Bae, but either don't be naive because life has more to it than what it seems or it can interpret it the way you want. Well, thank you, Anad Cohen for being with us today and here is La La Bae for the naive ones.