And now the low post. Welcome to the low post podcast on a Tuesday morning. We are halfway through the NBA season in terms of games played. And I have not checked in with our resident expert color analyst on our biggest NBA games since the beginning of the season since pre season.
So a lot of times past we've got a lot of data. Jeff Van Gundy, there's a lot to talk about. How are you, sir? Doing well.
How are you? I'm doing well. What's the complaint about? We're halfway through the NBA season.
I was at Raptors nicks yesterday. I don't know if you saw that ending one of the craziest endings I've ever seen in person, almost an all time bad loss for the Raptors. It was insane. Yeah.
It was a hard fought game. And I did watch it. And Fred Van Fleet, it reminded me of when he took a foul at a tie game, not knowing the score. That happened for us when I was with the Knicks as an assistant in 94 when we went to the finals.
Or was it 95 San Mitchell took a foul in a tie game, not knowing the score. And it ended up, that was Reggie Miller, where he scored eight in what? Nine seconds. Eight points, nine seconds.
Yeah. And in that game, San Mitchell foul that was legal starts, starts went to the line, missed both. And then, you know, they escaped. So it was really like it brought bad memories of always knowing time score, penalty, time outs, all that.
And that was a crazy game. It was a tremendous win for the Raptors. And it really, you know, difficult loss for the Knicks. We can all agree.
I mean, I realize I'm talking to a biased party here. Reggie Miller fouled Greg Anthony on that in-bounds pass, right? In that game, pushed him down and got the steal, turned around, hit a three. We could all agree that's a foul, right?
Not in those days. I don't know what the foul is going to say. Yeah. That was just one of those things where, like, you know, you preach all year, play 48 and finish games.
And, you know, the bigger issue was we came out, I think it was up six. No, it might have even been more. And we just gave Reggie Miller a wide open catch and shoot three from a side out of bounds. I mean, you know, so we did everything wrong.
They did everything right in those map period of time. And unfortunately, the bad guys won that one. Quick thoughts on the Raptors. All eyes are on them as the trade deadline approaches.
They're 20 and 24. They've now won four out of five to somewhat steady the ship. But as you know, coach, just reading the tea leaves and reading the reports, the whole league is watching to see what are they going to do? Are they going to trade one of their key starters and sort of retool?
Are they going to go full on rebuild? And I think they're still just waiting to see kind of like, can we get it in gear a little bit? They've got a ton of road games, unfortunately, for them coming up there. A bunch of home games in the hole already, or road games in the hole already.
I just just watching that game. It was a win for them. Did it inspire faith? Like, what are you seeing out of Toronto as we get to the halfway point?
Well, they really struggle in offense. You know, they've regressed in that area. And I'm not an everyday observer of Toronto. So I can't tell you exactly why.
Obviously, they inflict drops on in his shooting percentages. They're very reliant on one-on-one basketball. They don't have a lot of shooting. Trent is obviously a great shooter.
And they're tiny. Overall, they're a small group. So it'll be interesting. I know there's been a lot of hand-ringing over Scotty Barnes.
And whether he shoots it well enough, he made a big three yesterday, late in the game. But I thought he played it like a really good game yesterday, like on the offensive glass. I think sometimes we rush to anoint, and then we rush to judge. Amen.
And players, and I think sometimes you just have to wait and see. And certainly Barnes, if they're going to play him at center, at some point, he's going to have to be able to... You can't play a small center that can't shoot the ball. So I think, you know, the Knicks, and I think it was the right move.
They chose to play Robinson on Siakam, Ananobi with Randall. And then they put a smaller Barrett on, you know, Barnes. And I thought Barnes just really like mauled him when it counted the most. So I think it was a good win for them.
You know, long term, do they have enough to be a serious playoff team? Probably not. And it'll be interesting to see what they choose to do. Yeah, you just, first of all, having a small center who can't shoot seems like a bad idea.
Seems relevant to the Brooklyn Nets, just apropos of nothing. You just nailed it. Let me put an asterisk. Unless you have Kevin Durant, who's so good.
You know, I mean, literally like he's that good. Oh my God. And Claxon is, you know, a great roller. Oh, I wasn't talking about Claxon.
Oh, you're Don Simmons. Yeah. Well, they have the same strengths, they have the same issue, which is free throw shooting and all that. So yeah, it's Devin Durant, the races and Irving.
Are they a race a lot of possible negatives? The, you just nailed it with the Raptors. Like it's, it seems now safe to declare whether they make a little bit of a run, whether they slump, whatever they end up doing, they just don't seem to have the goods to go deep into the playoffs. Like they just don't seem like a dangerous team.
I don't see signs of them becoming a truly dangerous team. Like a team like, oh, I don't want to see them in the first round boy. They would have a punch or chance at the second round. It's just not, even when they win, you don't come away feeling like that's coming down the road.
There's another team we're going to talk about later, where when they win, I do feel like that is coming down the road. And on Scotty Barnes, I couldn't agree more. The last two weeks have been almost like refreshing for me because he's been really, really good in the last two, three weeks when teams have started to play him kind of like Ben Simmons and Jameon. Like we're just not going to guard you and see what you do.
The nix is to your point did not do that last night. They reverted to the way that teams had guarded Scotty before. I've said all year, like, I read and hear all the Scotty Barnes and Evan Mobley like angst. Like, oh my God, have they regressed?
And the leap has been common. Evan Mobley shooting, I think 18% from three. And Scotty Barnes's field goal percentage is down. Like maybe we were all wrong about him.
I'm like, what planet am I living on? That these guys who are 20 and 21 years old on good teams, figuring out their roles, particularly Scotty Barnes on a team with similar players to him. It's kind of an awkward, awkward bouncing act for all of them. Like we're already just like disappointed in these guys.
And I've watched him and I'll be like, I get that he hasn't made a leap, but I still think he's kind of playing okay. Like his defense hasn't been as good as I hoped and the shooting hasn't been as good as I hoped. But I don't watch him and feel like, oh my God, there's a problem. And I was beginning to feel like a crazy person coach.
And the last two weeks have been refreshing for me like I was just never really worried about either of those two guys. I'm still not, they're both going to be awesome. Like it's all fine. Yeah.
And I think when we judge, we always judge that everybody should be an all-time great. Like, oh, they're not going to be an all-time great if they can't shoot the ball better from deep. And some guys are just destined hopefully to be really good. And that's, that's plenty good.
Now that's not to say that you have, you don't have to have ultimately star players, but I just think the angst, the hand-ringing about young players, expecting everybody to ascend to all-time great status, really can do a disservice. And I think you have to spend a lot of time, it seems to me like now, making sure the players don't feel that the outside critiquing of them is how you feel as an organization or as a coach or as teammates. They have to know their value and they have to know why you feel that they're really good. And you still have to push them to get better obviously.
But I do think that it can be distracting with so many opinions out there. Some, you know, maybe not on base to what you feel as a coach. Yeah, and to put a bow on Toronto, whatever they do, deadline-wise, I think they're going to do from the mindset of, this team might be good, like maybe a good version of this team, but we're not, I don't know that there's a great version of this team laying in wait. And I think that's a very important piece of information for them to have coming up on the deadline.
And you mentioned another name that's going to be very important, Fred Van Vliet. Speaking of Fred Van Vliet, let's start by revisiting our final predictions from that October episode we did. I believe both of us had Milwaukee and the Clippers in the finals. The Bucks are now second in the east, I'm sorry third in the east, the Nets are still ahead of them.
28 and 16 with a bottom six offense right now in the NBA. Middleton's been injured the whole season, Drew Hollities in and out, Giannis has now missed a few games with a knee thing, which is anytime Giannis in need. She's like, even though he's the bionic man, I get a little worried. And the Clippers are just clipping along 23 and 22.
Kawhi Leonard and Paul George never played together. They played 350 minutes together, whole season, they're plus 60 in those 350 minutes. Yay, hooray. How are we, you can pick either of those two teams and their general sort of conference rivals in the East Boston, Philly, Brooklyn, Cleveland, and the West, the whole bunch of teams that have the Clippers.
How do you feel about your preseason finals pick? Well, when you look at the West, so many star players just don't play. And then either you have the depth to withstand it like New Orleans, which is like a tremendous roster building example, Memphis, I think is another team that has great depth, or you don't. And when you talk about the Clippers, I still think they're very talented, but like you said, they just for whatever reason, injuries, choose not to play, I don't know, but they're just never even approaching whole.
And I think that over time, that erodes your team spirit. And I'll be interested to see what they can rejuvenate there. I think they're still, obviously, some of the younger teams that are now in the top spots in the West, I'm not sure you wanna see any of those teams that are down there that have talent and experience in the first round, even though you're at the higher seat. So I don't feel great about my Clippers, right in the Clippers pick right now, just because I have no clue if, when or if ever, they're going to put a team together that resembles the team I predicted to go to the finals.
I'm a walkie, Middleton being out all year. Their offense, even with him out, does sort of confound how it has dropped. Not really sure other than, you know, shooting has not been great. I still think they're good, but I would change my pick to the Celtics now.
And the Celtics, and I'm gonna either pick in the West, I would take Memphis with slash New Orleans. Interesting, over Denver. Yes. What is Denver, all right, well, there's a lot there.
Let's talk about the Clippers first. Clippers are, you know, the availability thing is obvious, right, like if they don't have their best players, who cares, and we're getting to the point where it's like, is this ever going to happen for them? To the point that Bill Simmons on my podcast last week said, they should give up and trade one of Kawai and Paul George now. Get some picks back that they owe a million picks to the Thunder, reset, retool.
I don't think they're gonna do that. I don't think it's like a third rail issue for them, but I don't think they're gonna do that. I think they're gonna go the other way and try to be aggressive at the trade deadline, and that's why I sort of said of the Van Vlietse guy, you know, that is a natural transition here. They've been linked to my Conley.
I keep an eye on not just point cards. I keep an eye on Big Wings, Three's, Four's for them too, because I think there's a sense around the league. We all knew the gap between their second best player and their third best player was a chasm, and I think that chasm has proven a little bit bigger and more problematic than they thought. The issue they're gonna run into is every team is gonna ask for a first round pick and Terence Mann, or Luke Knart, but probably Terence Mann, and the Clippers don't wanna trade those guys because they're young and good and on good contracts.
So that's gonna be one issue, and, but I do think they're gonna be aggressive and to the point about the third best player, like the Kawai PG, yeah, they're plus 60 and 350 minutes, plus eight and a half per hundred possessions. Those numbers are good, but they're not like incredible, compared to other two star tandoms around the league. Like there's, you can't look at the Kawai Paul George numbers now and be like, well, it's a no-brainer that they're an incredible team when those two guys play. So I'm, it's hard to feel confident in that pick, right?
Clippers, it's hard to feel confident. I'm curious about Denver, because you said you'd pick Memphis and the Pelicans over Denver. Denver is now second in offense, 16th in defense. They have two of the league's top 10 lineups by plus minus.
They're starters, and the version of their starters with Bruce Brown from Michael Porter Jr. In plus minus, the Warriors' starters have been the best lineup in the league the whole season. Nuggets are on their heels. They're 16 and three in their last 19 games.
What are they, what are the, is that more about something Denver? Is lacking or just the respect level you have for Memphis and New Orleans as young, just fierce teams? Well, both, I think the 16th, you right, them in defense right now, that would just be hard to be a champion. Historically, that would make it hard.
I think Gilgage, he's won two MVPs in a row. I think it'd be hard for us to make a case why he shouldn't win a third. Oh my God, he's ridiculous. I just, I marveled not only at his game, but at his giving, at his humility, at his humor.
Like I think when you look at him, I think we can start to take for granted everything other than the passing. I think the passing draws like these incredible ooze and aus, but when you look at the whole package, I think we start to, some nights he's not, you know, they just win and, you know, he's fine getting 16 to 18 and making Aaron Gordon, like, I think he's brought sanity to Aaron Gordon's game. Aaron Gordon, when he was in Orlando, was trying to become a three point shooter. Now he, that's not what he does.
He knows he's going to get rewarded. I think Michael Porter, you know, he's been in and out, Murray's been in and out. I love the pickup of Brown. Contagious called about Pope, I think it's a good solid guy who shoots it and defends.
I actually like some of, I think you're a Zee-Naji fan. I'm not sure. I am big Zee-Naji, not big. I mean, I'm on team plays, Zee-Naji and Michael on his come to my team.
Yes. I like, ever since I saw him in summer league, I'm not sure I'm saying it right, Camcar. How do you say it? I believe it's Chanchar.
Chanchar, I like him. But, but I am a little concerned past Bruce Brown. Both of them I like, yeah, you know, I mean, but again, the size, you know, I just, I think there's more defensive issues come play off time that can be exposed there, but I'm all in on Yolkich, his impact and winning a third straight MVP. I do think you're right that the scoring is, I mean, he's shooting like 63% or something.
It's just, it's crazy. And you can't, you can't single cover him. Well, there might be two, I don't know if anybody can single cover him. You just, he's going to score on everybody.
It may be MB could do it in doses. You just can't do it. The problem is you also can't double him because he's going to murder you. And the reason is he's going to not, he's not going to throw the pass that you expect out of the double team or the pass that you give him.
He's going to figure out, well, if I take a dribble and a half spin over here, you're going to rotate this way. And this other guy that you don't want to leave open is going to be open or that's going to free up this cut for this other guy who's going to dunk. He's just going to outthink your double team if you're just a standard double team defense. And so I do think all that is taken kind of for granted.
I mean, their defense is trending the right way. I agree with you, the ceiling on it is not, I don't think there's like a top eight defense here. The model for them has always been kind of the, the LeBron Cleveland teams who were like unbelievable in offense and just good enough in defense to win now they won in 16, lost in 17. I think in a normal season they would have won in 2017, like if there weren't this total anomalous team in Golden State, I think that Cleveland team was just an incredible dominant team.
That's been the model for Denver. I have faith in it. I think it has a lot of playoff equity. And a lot of people dismissed the bubble because of the setting, because the Clippers just didn't appear to be kind of emotionally engaged at the level you need to be to win deep playoff series.
I just, I still count that for Denver. The way they just picked apart the Clippers defense to the point that the Clippers had no answers for Murray, Yolka, just two man game, just none. They couldn't do anything with it. I think their offense in a slowed down game is good enough to lift their defense.
Like we can play after scores. We can set our defense. Like I think, I don't know if I would pick them to win the rest right now, but I think they're the safest bet to win the West right now. I wouldn't feel great about it, but I have a look, I get the concerns about the defense believe me, but I think their offense is just, I just don't know what you do with it.
I don't think there's a way to really stop it for sure. Yeah, I'm interested and a little bit perplexed. I watch Miami play zone with a very undersized team and I watch it give teams fits just because of the original in this of it and I'm surprised more teams don't try to play some form of alternate defense on a regular basis that they can feel comfortable with. I'm not sure Denver will or not.
I think Michael does a great job in every aspect of that team building. I'll be interested what they do with the trade deadline, but I do think I'm not sure they have four straight series where they can just line. I know people can't guard them because that guy cannot be guarded. I would wanna see like, you know, Stephen Adams, how has he done against him?
That's a good name. You know, like I'd be very interested in that. Valentunus, that would be a hard one for him. Do they have more belief in like Jackson Hayes or Willie Hernandez, I'm not sure.
I just think like Yolkich is the ticket. The other guys even haven't even played great yet. Like order missed a lot, Murray up and down. I think they have room even to grow on offense.
I do too. I just think they're, the guy is so good. Great pop of it used to say when we were getting ready to play for against him in the World Cup, his belief and their belief in San Antonio was you could never double team him when he can see you. You have to only come from a side, a blind side that he can't see you.
And even then, as you mentioned before, his ability to be a play ahead, know that you're coming not from where he can be seen, but from a blind side, he's just got a supernatural gift of being able to see it and deliver. People talk about him being the best passing center. Never, I would say he's one of the top passers ever to play regardless of position. It's, that's, I said this last week to someone, the best passing big man ever thing, it's over.
Like that's done, he's the best passing big man ever. I agree with you that at the end, we're gonna regard him. I mean, it sounds crazy to say, he's gonna be in the conversation with like Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd and John Stockton and LeBron James and Luke Adonchish and whoever else you want to name as the best passers of all time. That's how good he is.
I was talking about that with Mark Jackson, who I believe he has the best vision I've ever been around. Mark. Yeah, Mark Jackson. Just had the ability to see a play before the play and I always tried to ask him and I still do.
Like how did you know? And he's trying, he tries to explain it, but I think that's trying to ask an artist to explain their gift to someone who's not gifted, right? So I think it's the same way with Yokech. Those type of guys like Stockton to me was like, he always was turning his head, he had a great ability in the middle of the floor like to take a quick picture and then know what was happening.
Yokech to me, Mark Jackson to me, maybe Magic Bird, whoever else you want to name, right? They can, they just know like, this guy's going to be open and how they know, it's just a gift, it's just a gift. And then to have the ability not only to see a play ahead, but then to have the size and the vision to be able to deliver the ball, that's another gift. You know, so there's to me two separate gifts.
There can be guys who can see the play ahead, but just don't have the size and the vision and the touch on their passes to be able to throw it. These guys all do. Yeah, and I was going to be talking about what Pop said. I was like, I haven't seen the defense that can catch Yokech off guard more than once a game yet.
And hats off if someone could actually figure out how to do it. On the defense thing, I will say, there's been a couple of games this year, just a couple, one was against Memphis, who we're going to talk about next, where Denver really varied up the ways that used Yokech on defense. And I almost wonder if Michael Malone is now kind of hiding that, waiting for the playoffs to do it again. Like there was that game against Memphis who will always stick out to me, because you know he likes to come up to the level of the screen, right?
That's how Yokech likes to play. That's why Denver plays that way. That's his preference. He doesn't like to lay back because he feels like he's not going to be able to stop a guy who's coming at him full speed.
But in that game against Memphis, they went under sometimes against Morant and said, okay, if you can be able to jump shot, do it. They went over sometimes against guys who aren't Morant and said, okay, let's drop back with Yokech and see how you do. To your point about zone, they've dabbled in zone, but it has been a big part of what Coach Malone does, but they did the thing in that game where they said, okay, I'm just making this up. Zaire Williams is in the game.
Let's put Yokech on him and put Aaron Gordon on their center or their screen center and make them just like the Celtics do with Robert Williams in a more sort of aggressive predatory way. Like it's a weapon for them. They're not hiding him anywhere. I think that's the right, I think that's how they're going to have to play in the playoffs to win four series.
And the fact that they've dabbled in it and then kind of stashed it in their back pocket a little bit, he's interesting to me. Hey sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN and limited as part of your TV package for no additional call.
Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all the ESPN all in one place. Sign up for activate now. Let's talk about Memphis, because I agree with you and I've said this repeatedly for two months now.
They can win the championship. They're there, they're ready now. They're 30 and 13, they've won 10 games in a row. They're seventh in offense and first in defense.
Jaren Jackson Jr. is made a leap across the board. They're healthy now. I still think, and it's gonna fall on deaf ears that they should make a trade and trade a little bit for another guy.
Just like if I can get a Kuzma or somebody like that to be my seventh guy, I'm doing it because I think they can win it. Maybe they think we can win it anyway. We don't need to do anything. We can win it with, you know, our bench, our top guys off the bench are Clark and Ties Jones.
And after that, we got, you know, your conshars and Zaire Williamses and David Rotties. And like we're good with that. We're cool, we'll roll with that. I think they've been beyond impressive this year, the fact that they're first in defense.
What is stuck out to you? Why are you, what have they done to make you a believer that this is not just a young team that wins because A, they care more in the regular season. And B, their style of play, chaos, turnovers, offensive rebounds, you know, the sort of old school book was always, that stuff won't translate as well to the slow down playoff game. I think that's overblown and they dispelled that a little bit last year.
But what's impressed you that, okay, this team is a four playoff series winner, three playoff series win, kind of team. Well, the numbers will tell you that they have that ability. I like the versatility the way they can beat you in many ways. I think the offense of rebounding is critical in a playoff series for like them.
Bain's health is imperative, like he's that good. I think Morant gets a lot of credit justly. Bain still sort of slides under the radar and he's a tremendous, tremendous player. I like you, I think if they could gather two or three of those guys and turn it into one better guy, I think it would help them more in the playoffs.
But they're still gonna play 10, you know, they're 10 guys, like even in the playoffs, that's what they do. I think right now, especially for a young team, I'm impressed. Chris Rock and I love this statement. He said in one of his skids, and it was really good.
And I think it's apropos to a lot of team sports. He said, you've got to enjoy being the tambourine player. No one wants to see a mad tambourine player. You can't always- I don't think I know that line.
Yeah, you can't always be the lead singer. You've got to enjoy and you've got to be happy when it's your turn to play the tambourine. And I think in Memphis, with a young team, they understand who the lead singers are, and they got a bunch of guys who enjoy playing the tambourine. And they may want more, like a lot of players, want more, and the people around them want more, but they play that tambourine with a smile on their face.
And I'm impressed from a young, you could be if you're Desmond Bain, I want to be, have my own team, or Jerry Jackson Jr., when am I gonna get a shot? Or the constantly shuffling wing players? Like I want to play on an everyday basis. I've been impressed.
I think Taylor Jenkins is obviously a brilliant basketball coach, but I'm also impressed that he can keep that team where they're not fighting the natural order of their roles. And I think that's really hard to do in today's game, and I think he's done it incredibly well. I think a lot of that also should go to Moran, because I've said this repeatedly about him. He does not play or carry himself, like someone who thinks the whole franchise is his, that everything has to go through him.
He's a good cutter in transition, where he could go one on three, every single possession. He's always waiting around, looking for trailers, looking for his teammates. He gets off the ball, and they all know, and this is important, they all know, he's giving everything he has all the time. He's ferocious, he's competitive, and I think he sets the tone for their team on the floor.
Tambourine players, first of all, Stephen Adams would break the tambourine, like two hits in, that thing is bashed. And he's happy being a roadie. He doesn't even need an instrument. He's happy just sitting on stage carrying the speakers around.
I mean, think about their big guys, like Clark. Like he could start for many teams. He comes off the bench, plays what, 18, 19, 20 minutes, plays all out. Xavier Tillman sits over there as the third center, and when they need him, he comes in.
And if not, he sits over there and waits his turn. I tell you, I am so impressed. Ties Jones, quite frankly, think about it. Last year, they had a better record without Moran, than with Moran, which is truly, you just don't see it.
And I think it goes to the quality of player Ties Jones is, but Ties Jones could be clamoring for his own team. I just, I'm amazed. And you're right, when you have good structure, good order, and good, like that term, that cliche term, chemistry, and if you have bad chemistry, I bet it's going to be a lot about the stars. But when you have it good, it's about the stars.
It's about coaching, recognizing the contributions of the others and not letting their contributions be lost. And it's like, as you mentioned, if you have a star that comports himself as one of the guys, man, does that make it a lot better? And Jared Jackson, look, you still fouls too much. And that's the biggest problem with him, maybe with their team.
They're going to need him to play a lot of minutes. I think the nerds have noticed what he's doing. I don't know if he's getting enough love in the big picture, national basketball talking points. He's averaging 4.6 blocks per 36 minutes.
He is on pace right now. He has blocked 11% of all two-point shots, not three, six-point-three, it's two-point-shots when he's been on the floor. Coach, that's on pace to be the all-time record in the history of the NBA. Now, yes, they did not track block shots in Bill Russell.
Will Chamberlain and all that? You have to say that. You have to say that. But there's still been a lot of good shot blockers since then.
And he is everywhere. He's getting these blocks from out of nowhere. These guys are going up for a lay-ups. He's coming from the three-point arc.
Nobody even sees him coming because he covers space so fast and he's so long. I think he has been, per minute, the best defensive player in the NBA this year, full stop. And if he plays enough minutes, if he can cut his fouling enough, I think he's the defensive player of the year. He has been absolutely ridiculous.
And he's hit another level on offense. Between all the jaw highlights and everything else, I'm not sure Triple J is getting enough love. That guy has been insane. 4.6 blocks per 36 minutes is crazy time.
What's full stop me? Just like no caveats. No, if this guy doesn't play, that guy, no caveats. He's been crazy.
He is. And I think when I'm interested, would he block as many shots if he was a five-man? You said it earlier with Robert Williams, sort of playing him on a perimeter guy. It seems counterintuitive that you would want these great shot blockers hanging around the basket involved in the pick and rolls.
But I wonder if the freedom to cover ground, like you're saying with Jackson Jr, gives him more time to sort of read the play and cover ground. I'm not sure if he has been tremendous. I think sometimes his fouling can bounce me because it puts them in his team in harm's way, him in harm's way. But also, I think it understates just his value to their team.
I think when he takes unnecessary fouls, he's not giving himself enough credit for how good he is and how valuable he is, particularly when we get to the playoffs. Again, when you're beating, let's just say, Phoenix, by third, right, their last game. A mistake here, a mistake there as far as a foul here, a foul there, really doesn't matter. But I think overall, he has to understand his incredible importance to their team and how good he is.
And not just defensively. He has some gifts on offense too. So I'm really so impressed with them. And I think their shot selection, I'm interested in come playoff time.
I really am. I'm fascinated to watch them because they're a different sort of team. They play a little bit differently, and I love different. To your point on that, they are 25th in frequency of three pointers, but 8th in shots at the rim, and they are team floater.
No one takes more floaters than them. They're great at it. Jaren Jackson Jr. 100%.
If you look at the lineup data for his entire career, basically, the common denominator in all their best lineups, all of them, is Jaren Jackson Jr. He needs to be on the floor 35 minutes a game in the playoffs for them to get where they think they can go. Let's talk about a team that it's remarkable. They haven't come up in our Western Conference in the first half of the year.
They're all kind of like, what are they doing? Talk here? I just can't figure out the Warriors. I don't remember ever a team like this that just won the championship, so expectations are by definition high.
They brought almost everybody back, Gary Payton Jr. and out of order are big losses. All their young players are, other than Wiseman, have gotten better, and even Wiseman's showing signs, he's not playing right now. And they just, you keep waiting for the run.
You keep waiting for it all click now. Curry's back. Wiggings is back. Here it comes.
And then they go to Chicago and it's like, they're down the whole game. And then they took a lead, and then they were down. Again, they lost it immediately. They can't get stops.
They're 16th in defense, 15th in offense. Average. Average across the board. They still foul the hell out of everybody.
And they're dead last and free throw away on offense, by the way, so they're just starting every game down 6-0. They have hideous turn over, every hideous turn over. And yet, I'm just going to hint at it now. There are signs that we're not crazy to be waiting for the run to start.
And the signs are not just what we know the Warriors are awesome. They want the championship. There are actual signs under the hood here that are encouraging. But I watched them last night in Washington and they need a late rally, now Clayton played back to back all that.
To beat the Wizards, I thought that Bulls game was just like, are you guys ever going to do this? Where are you on the Warriors? Because I'm just confounded every game. Well, the discrepancy between home and road and defense home and road.
17 and 5 and 17. What are we doing here? Now, some of that was without Curry, but they lost some of the worst teams in the league on the road. So I give them the benefit of the doubt because I believe Curry is that great, that eventually he will drag them into the playoffs.
They have the best, one of the best two-way players who plays every night in Anthony Lamb has just been great. Ty Jerome hasn't played as much lately, but he has been great as a two-way player. I think those guys are better than have played. Every bit is valuable to the Warriors as their young trio of guys, of Kuminka, Wiseman and Moody, which is either really good or really bad depending on your perspective.
I like their team. They just haven't played well. Like sometimes it just comes down to, I think, maybe when you watch them, they can't generate the every night enthusiasm it takes to play against to win in this league, regardless of the names on the back of the jersey. It takes an energy and an intensity and a passion because last year I thought it was the most in my, whatever, 30 years around the NBA or 33, whatever it is.
It was the most confounding championship I've seen. I had them. I didn't think they were very good. And then somehow through the draw, through Memphis and then get into the finals and I think Boston's a lot better than them.
And then Curry goes into Game 5 and basically on his own just snatches victory from defeat. Game 4. I just, I gotta say, I still can't believe they won it last year. So they have lost some valuable pieces, but I think the West is like, even though there's really good teams, I think the Warriors, if they got there would feel comfortable and playing against Denver and Memphis and New Orleans.
They're not scared of any of those. I mean, I can tell you they are not scared of any of those. They should be scared of themselves right now because you can convince yourself, like Clay Thompson keeps saying, I have no worries. I have no worries.
I have no worries. And I guarantee you, Steve Kerr has concerns. And I think being concerned isn't a sign of weakness. It's actually a sign of intelligence that there are things we need to correct.
It's not, we're really good. We've proven we're really good individually collectively, but it's got to translate and it's not a, it's a this year thing. It's, you don't get any bonus points for winning it in the past. And so I think Draymond Green has mentioned his concern level like confidence and concern.
I think that's what they should be striving for as a group because they obviously have earned their confidence, but they've also should have earned a concern that their results are should be driving. It's funny. I guess how we perceive them going into last year, both before the season and in the playoffs informs still how we perceive them now because I was high on them last year at the beginning of the year and I was high on them when the playoffs started and I picked them to win the finals in seven. And so I'm more optimistic about them now and I didn't find their championship run as surprising maybe as you did.
But that's, I'm saying like I have to check myself like that is still maybe informing my perception of this team, which is distinct from that team. And I agree with you. Like Draymond just talked about urgency. Like we just don't have the urgency blah blah blah.
It's okay. You're you're 22 and 22. They play by the way the third easiest schedule in the league. The Clippers, I forgot to mention this, have played the easiest schedule in the league.
So you can like, yeah, we're playing for April, May, June, like you got to get in to May, like you got to actually get in into May and yet I'm still waiting for the run. And. That good. Again, I think he's the second.
Yolkach is the most underrated guy to me. Currie is second. We talked just about his shooting. Like his overall dominance and how he like to me, what he did in the final last year, I didn't think anybody else played particularly well.
I just thought he snatched like he was so great in on the road. I, I, I, I just, it was to me, it was one of the great performances. And I just think he continues to be, you know, everybody talks about his pregame routine and it's in a shooting and it's all this, right? But I think people undersell like his finishing, his rebounding as a guard.
Like, I just think they overlook some things about him that. Belie his, the smile on his face. Like this is a tough competitor who is one of the best players you could ever hope to see. And you can make the case to meet you're in and you're out.
You can make a strong case. He's, he's been the most valuable player in the league over the past decade. Right. I just think there are other guys are good, but good.
I mean, he is the great and I just don't think we, we talk about his greatness enough. It's overall greatness and how he's really pulled. What was I got an under talented team last year in Golden State to win it? That was terrific.
Well, you, you, I remember I ran into you before game six and you, I asked, how you feeling coach? And you said, I think I'm just going to keep picking Boston until someone else is lifting the trophy. Like that was a really tough matchup for the Warriors. And it's your point.
Yeah, their defense, like in that game six, they were the, they were the real deal. Like that's, I think what is confounding right now, I'm sorry, but I just think like that defense, that defensive component that they could always rely on. And maybe that ties directly to health, passion, whatever the loss of Peyton and Porter, maybe a, Peyton Porter played like 50 minutes this entire year. Like it's, it's, it's, Or the year now and Peyton is, you know, whatever.
So anyway, I just think their defense, if they can recapture that defense of intensity, Corey, I have no doubt will dominate a series. Yeah, the defenses and that Bulls game is illustrates it. And there have been a million other games like this where they just can't, they can't string together 10 straight minutes of good defense. Like there's always miscovertures, stream ons always yelling at someone for blowing a switch or not switching or going to go, it's just not warriors.
And then you throw in all the turnovers and all the fouls and they're just shooting themselves in the foot. And I, about that finals, you're right. Like if you talk about what, what warriors were continuously good from game one to game six, it's Curry Wiggins, Looney probably, and maybe Otto Porter, Clay was up and down, Dremon was up and down pool, kind of sneaky got played out of that, a lot of that series. They can play like 15 minutes a game in the finals.
Everyone's like, what a great playoff run pool. They had a good playoff run. And at the end, against the biggest, baddest team, they didn't trust him to be on the floor all that much, particularly with their other guards. So here's why I'm still, I'm still, I'm still buying.
I don't know. I mean, other than the fact that they're the warriors, you mentioned lamb. If you look at the numbers, Stephen Chenzo, who's been very good for them, coming up and pool without Curry is plus three and a half per hundred possessions. You throw in lamb as another dependable bench guy.
The Dremon on Curry off is now plus two or two and a half per 100 possessions. The Curry on off splits are not as dramatic as they were. And I think there's all of this points to when they've excised some of their, like Moody barely plays anymore. I'm disappointed in him.
Wise men's out and he's not playing when they, when they have their starting five, which I mentioned before, so that's the best plus minus of any lineup in the NBA. Plus Stephen Chenzo, coming up pool lamb and they stagger their starters the right way. It's a good team and it might be a great, I think it's probably still a great team in there somewhere. The numbers say it's all trending the right way.
And that's why I keep saying I'm waiting for the run to start because under the hood, the numbers are suggesting like, there's still a good team and you're just still a good team and they're still a good team here. We just have to see it and they've earned the benefit of the doubt with me. Like, I think we are going to see it despite the fact that their schedule gets tougher as the season goes on and their negative point differential and all that. I think this is still a really good team that if you told me, you know, they're 22 and 22, they're four games out of fourth.
If you told me at the end of the season, we wake up in there at the fourth seed, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Now, other than that, above that is going to be hard to get to. I just don't think they care. They just care about getting out of the play in.
Yeah. And I'm betting on them getting out of the play in which, you know, sack New Orleans Memphis Denver are so far ahead that there's, you're talking about, you've just got to get to six or fifth. Like it's not like they're a lot of guaranteed out of the play in spots out there. I'm still betting on them though.
The play in, and I think they're probably a little concerned about the plan because they lost in the play on playing with Curry, right? So they, to Memphis and who they lose to in the first one, I think was one of the LA teams. They lost their careers. And so the playing is a precarious position to place yourself in.
Once they get to the playoffs, if Curry's healthy, I don't know, I don't know if you have to be a great team to come out of the West. I think what you have to be is consistently very good. And I think the Warriors haven't shown this year, they can be consistently very good. But like you, if they can get their defense right and Curry's healthy, it's a, it's a tough out.
There's going to be a lot of people nervous trying to play them in the first round. And I think Wiggins, he missed a lot of time and I think he's still getting his feedback under him. I think he'll go on a good stretch. I don't know about you coach.
Like I think Draymond is having an underrated, like really good season. He's doing his triple single thing, like eight, seven and seven, 50 percent from the floor, 58 percent on twos. I think his defense has been pretty much almost as, you know, not quite like four or five years ago, Draymond, where he was just a monster, but still all defense level good. He's getting that quarterback keeper play like two times a game now, fools everybody.
I think he's had a really strong season. Like in clay, he's gotten better as the season has gone on. I don't know. Maybe I'm a little Pollyanna on the Warriors, but I think a run is coming.
We should talk about in the East, we kind of skirted over Boston and our Mill Walkie pick and whether we regret that. Boston, I've talked about enough on this podcast. They're awesome. Everybody knows they're awesome.
And Time Lord has changed the dynamic of their team since coming back. And once they get jail and Brown back and they have Robert Williams, I think it's probably going to end up starting for them again. They're going to be really, I mean, the depth and the size is just forget the offense, which is still number one in the NBA. The depth and the size is just it's a bear.
They're a bear. I want to talk about Philly who is kind of sneaking up on people now. They are there up to fourth in the East tied with the Bucks in the loss column, a game out of Brooklyn for second. They're 11th in offense and fourth in defense and 11th in offense under sells it if you if they're they're a half a point out of sixth.
So if they were sixth in offense and fourth in defense, we're like, oh, my God, this is a this is a championship, a championship monster waiting laying in weight. They are plus 10 per 100 possessions with Embiid and Hardin on the floor. Hardin like Draymond is having an underrated season. I Bill Simmons just dismissed him flatly as an all star candidate with me and I tried to make the case for hard and I think he's been really good defensively.
Yes, I know. And now I say this link, coach, they're going to dock rivers is going to try this thing where there's been all this noise about should Maxi come off the bench. Can you defend well enough with Maxi and Hardin on the floor or should they go the other way and try Hardin, Maxi, Melton altogether in certain matchups when maybe PJ Tucker isn't as essential as he is against maybe, you know, Durant or whoever you want to say. And Doc Rivers in the last game started Melton and brought Maxi off the bench and then said afterwards, we have three different starting lineups now that we're going to rotate between games.
And if you look at all their core lineups because they haven't beat on the floor are all really, really good. And we can, I mean, two of those lineups, we just said what they are. I'm guessing the third one will be the three guard lineup with Tucker coming off the bench maybe. I think that's really interesting.
Not a lot of teams have ever tried that. I think I was high on this team at the beginning with the caveat that I do not trust Hardin in a big playoff game and that's why I will never pick them to come out of the East until they're actually coming out of the East. I think they look awesome and all the attention on Boston and Brooklyn's crazy season and all that. I think it's time to start looking at Philly as a serious threat.
I guess I have to say to get out of the East even though I just said I can't trust Hardin in a big game. What have you noticed from them? Well, they're an outstanding team defensively. Indeed is such a good anchor.
They're big. Melton, I think has helped in that way. I'm interested. You know, when we I did a Philly game earlier in the year and you never know when you're talking to people from a team because they always lied to you about their players and, you know, what good guys they are and you know, like, whatever.
But unanimously, they all said that Maxi was a ray of sunshine and that he was he will do anything. He was a great worker, just upbeat, whatever you want, he'll do. And for him to be in this all-star sort of push, take an injury and now sort of give consent that he would be fine coming off the bench. I think we underplay that because it goes right back to role acceptance.
And maybe others on on a team won't accept change and sacrifice. And what he's done, I think has given Doc Rivers the license to try things that he thinks may give them their best chance to win it all without being so worried about hurting feelings that if a guy is important as Maxi is willing to go along with it, that it emboldens a coach to really try to do what he thinks was best. And so because of that type of attitude, I think they have a really good chance. I think in B, everybody says about harden down the stretch of close playoff games.
I think everybody should check out in B's numbers in the fourth. I think Cardin sometimes, I think we forget, harden has taken his teams further than in B has. So I think the pressure, yes, it's for harden to deliver most certainly, but in B as well, Simmons sort of took them all off with the overanalyzed one play, sort of took them all off the hook. I thought they should have been taking Simmons off the hook.
They did. They sort of, the other players sort of put him on the hook. They should have accepted more to me, more, you know, just, hey, listen, we all could have done better. And I just think some people, and I don't really know why this is, some people we, we let off maybe because we like them, others we hold to a count, maybe more than we should.
I don't know. It's interesting. Yeah, I guess I would amend my harden thing is he's had plenty of big, big playoff games. I guess I say I'll never trust him in an elimination game until I see him do it.
It's the elimination games that have been rough. And he's just been such a shrinking violin in too many of those games. And you're right about Embiid. You can pin it maybe on he just seems to get a flooky, like broken face injury at the wrong time every playoffs, but he has not, he has not played as well from much of the postseason as he has in the regular season.
Now, I think if he can stay healthy and avoid those flooky injuries and they keep giving him chances, I think a monster, dual and beat playoff run is going to happen. I just think, I understand how playing out of the post is really hard and playoff defenses are really creative and all this. I still think it's coming. I think his two man game with harden is as good as advertised.
And they're playing him at the elbow a lot more, which makes it a lot less, you know, it makes it if you have a game up there versus just in the low post, it makes it a little bit easier, you know, so it'll be interesting. I think in beats talent is defense, his ability to get to the free throw line, all of that is top notch, but he has to come through in the most important times. And I'm just saying, like, if you look at his numbers, again, we always talk injuries. I'm just talking about what has actually occurred.
It's not been as good as you would have expected for how good a player he is. And that being said, he's had huge games and huge moments that buzzer beater against Toronto last season stands out and all that. The harden and beat two man game has been unbelievable since they got harden. I've been on the Sixers that they need to have a little bit more juice to their half court offense, a little bit more connectivity, a little bit more.
It's not always your turn, my turn. And the pick and roll is that connectivity, but sometimes it's got to be how you get into it or the next thing that comes after it. I think they've been a little better about that lately. And the greatness of those two guys can just take you a long way because it's hard to switch that play and indeed has mastered that little 1213 foot jump shot.
We've seen in the playoffs that teams are going to be more aggressive taking that away, taking away even him catching it there. They're going to make the Sixers shooters shoot. They might even make hard and drive and dare him to finish a little bit rather than let him be catch the ball in the paint. But, you know, between their starting five, who it ever is, whoever of Maxie and Melton is coming off the bench.
Shake Milton, Georgie Ng has been great for them. Harold is a Bible backup center in Sos Paul Reed and Thiebel has started to play his way back into the rotation now and maybe in select doses, you use him. They have nine, ten guys that it's a really good team. And they're starting to sneak up the standings and they're starting to be one of these teams that has like, okay, they're top six, seven, eight on both ends of the floor.
And in beat is that good. Like how the seating shake out in the east and how the playoff match ups look, God willing everyone's healthy is going to be really, really fascinating because all these teams are really, really good. But I agree with you if you had to pick one right now, it'd be Boston. But I'm sticking with Milwaukee because I guess I'm a prisoner to my preseason pick.
I pick Bucks Clippers. I don't feel great about it. But that's what I picked. Yeah, I think the four or five matchup in the east.
Oh, it one team, whoever loses is going to be ultimately so disappointed because I don't see the whoever makes it to the top three. I don't see them being challenged in the first round. I just don't, I think there's that big, a D mark line of demarcation. But that four or five, you could have had this great regular season and been really good.
And there's, there's going to be a loser and that birth, that team is going to feel awful. Whereas I think in the Western conference, even though you're one of the top seeds, just because, you know, if you match up against Luca Donchich in the first round, you're going to be on edge and, oh yeah, you know, Curry and even the Kawhi Leonard Paul George, if they, you know, choose to play together at that point of the year, they're able to play together at that point of the year, you're going to be like, you mean, we've worked this hard, we've gotten it like, we're the number one seat and we're playing the Warriors in the first round. This is why, this is why I'm a big proponent of the number one sheet seat to get a pick its own first round opponent for this exact reason. I love that idea, by the way, there has to be more, there has to be benefit, just because of the malaise that so many people put on the regular season, there has to be more of a reward for going out there.
Why not just let them all pick you first, you know, you're the first seed, you get the pick, second gets the pick next third, and then you know, four or five is what it is. Speaking of four or five, that'd be Philly Cleveland right now. We didn't talk about Cleveland. Give me your 30 second minute take.
Are you a believer that Cleveland can win the East this year? No, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're really good. Okay. And I think they need more.
Just like I think Philly may take that whole bench if they could consolidate it into one better overall player. I think they might be better. I think Cleveland's bench might be the same too. I really like what they've done.
Kobe Altman, JB Baker staff to rebuild what was really a team left in the morass of and be able to take, you know, sexton and marketing and trade. And you know, Garland then becomes the true point guard you're pairing with Mitchell, which I still can't believe that they were able to do that, right? They got Donovan Mitchell. So they got him to, you know, Jared Allen, who I really like as a center, you know, again, he is to me like a guy who no ego, but just competes and rolls and does his thing night in and night out.
And Mobley, I like as a player. I think finding that fifth guy who it is, who fits best. So I think they've got some more work. I'd be surprised that they won a first round series against any of those teams.
But if they can get themselves up to third, then I think they wouldn't win a first round series. So it really to me depends on getting out of that four or five matchup. And that's why the Durant injury was such a big deal for Brooklyn because they looked pretty insulated from from that. And they are no longer insulated from that despite the cushion that they built up with him.
Jeff Van Gundy, where you're on Dallas, who does Dallas have? You're going to Dallas who we got? Lana and Miami. We are both interesting teams as well.
They're, they're very interesting. So they played, they played a very interesting game yesterday. I'm Martin Luther King, they, Miami Furious rally fell short in the Hawks have gotten a couple of much needed wins, given the instability there. Lots to talk about.
Well, checking with you maybe before the playoffs, Jeff Van Gundy, the best in the business. Thank you for lending us time as always, sir. Take care.