EPISODE · Feb 28, 2024 · 57 MIN
Jim Womack on Lean’s Evolution, Boeing’s Failures, and the Future of Management
from Lean Blog Interviews: Real-World Lean Leadership Conversations in Healthcare and Beyond · host Mark Graban
My guest for Episode #499 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is James P. Womack. Jim really needs no introduction for this audience, he's the founder of the Lean Enterprise Institute (in 1987) and remains a senior advisor to them. Episode page with transcript and more In the late eighties, he and Dan Jones led MIT's International Motor Vehicle Research Program (IMVP), which introduced the term “lean” to describe Toyota's revolutionary management system. Based on that research, Womack coauthored The Machine That Changed the World (Macmillan/Rawson Associates, 1990), Lean Thinking (Simon & Schuster, 1996), Lean Solutions (Simon & Schuster, 2005), and Seeing the Whole Value Stream (Lean Enterprise Institute, 2011). Jim was really gracious and helpful to me in being an early guest on this podcast, going back to Episode 12 in late 2006 when we talked about Lean in China. Today is his 8th appearance on the podcast: 7 times solo and once last September as part of a group that did a post-game show with me after the GE Lean Mindset event. I've seen and talked with Jim many times over the past decade, so it's totally my fault that I haven't had him on since 2011. When I asked him to come back to help celebrate 500 episodes, he quickly agreed — and I'll have him back again much sooner than this last gap between appearances. In today's episode, Jim shares reflections and stories on a number of companies, countries, and topics, including: China and Vietnam GM, Toyota, Boeing, Danaher, Rivian, and Tesa And he answers some questions that were suggested by LinkedIn commenters. Questions, Notes, and Highlights: I think listeners would love to know what keeps you busy these days in the world of Lean? Planet Lean – celebrating 10 years A few people asked: How can we influence a union to start embracing Lean, when the union at our company has been actively against it from the start? Lean in China – almost 18 years ago episode – Ep 12 — Thoughts on how things have evolved? Has Tesla ever invited you to visit their gemba? Which companies does he consider to be Lean exemplars in the United States? What do you think we, as a Lean community, could/should do better? Read Ed Schein's Organizational Culture and Leadership Did you ever meet Dr. Deming? The podcast is brought to you by Stiles Associates, the premier executive search firm specializing in the placement of Lean Transformation executives. With a track record of success spanning over 30 years, it's been the trusted partner for the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare sectors. Learn more. This episode is also brought to you by “The Optimistic Outlook,” hosted by Barbara Humpton, CEO of Siemens USA. This podcast is a hub for those passionate about transformative concepts that shape both our workplaces and our world. Find it in your favorite podcast app. This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.
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What this episode covers
A candid, unscripted conversation with one of the founders of modern Lean thinking. Jim Womack returns to the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast to reflect on the evolution of Lean thinking—and where it has gone wrong. As a co-founder of the Lean Enterprise Institute and a key figure behind The Machine That Changed the World and Lean Thinking, Jim offers candid insights shaped by decades of gemba experience. In this wide-ranging conversation, Jim discusses Boeing’s quality and leadership failures, why Lean tools without belief systems don’t work, and how management behavior—not unions or frontline workers—often determines success or failure. He also shares perspectives on Toyota, Tesla, Rivian, Danaher, and what startup culture gets dangerously wrong about “going fast.” The episode explores Lean in China and Vietnam, lessons from NUMMI, the misuse of Kaizen and visual boards, and why real-time problem solving remains so elusive in many organizations. Jim challenges the Lean community to move beyond tools toward daily management, respect for people, and leaders who believe workers can think and solve problems. This episode is essential listening for executives, Lean practitioners, and anyone serious about improving organizations without hype, heroics, or shortcuts.
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Jim Womack on Lean’s Evolution, Boeing’s Failures, and the Future of Management
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