Joe Chernov on Rebelling Against The Streetlight Effect - Season 3: Marketing - Episode #50

In this conversation, hosts Josh Wagner and Justin Gray chat with Joe Chernov, CMO at Pendo.io, on what he calls the streetlight effect in B2B marketing and the need to break free from the conventional KPIs that limit creativity and innovation. Joe emphasizes the importance of appealing to buyers and focusing on what would truly resonate with them, rather than solely relying on measurable metrics. He shares examples of marketing strategies that have worked for him, such as collaborations with influential individuals and podcast sponsorships. Together, they highlight the significance of trust between marketers and CEOs in order to create a culture that values good marketing over dashboard metrics.  Takeaways:  Recognize and overcome the streetlight effect: Joe emphasizes how marketers often focus on the metrics that are easy to measure — such as MQLs and lead generation — simply because they can. He defines this as the "streetlight effect," where marketers look for success under the easiest, most obvious indicators, even when those indicators don’t necessarily align with buyer behavior. Joe recommends shifting focus from easily measurable metrics to understanding and appealing to what truly resonates with buyers. Break free from conventional KPIs that limit creativity and innovation: The key is to avoid becoming so beholden to dashboards and metrics that you lose sight of marketing’s core mission — building real, human connections with potential buyers. Prioritize value creation and authentic engagement over rigid adherence to traditional KPIs that stifle creativity. Experiment with marketing strategies outside the norm: Embrace unconventional marketing tactics, such as innovative demos and partnerships, to engage prospects in authentic and meaningful ways. Build trust between marketers and CEOs: One of the key points Joe makes is the importance of having a CEO who trusts the marketing team to do its job well, without needing to justify every decision with a dashboard. Foster a collaborative culture where CEOs empower marketing teams to innovate without constant reliance on dashboard metrics for validation.  Quote of the Show: "I think a good foundational question is, what would you do to appeal to your buyer? It's deliberately a generic word. I'm not saying convert. I'm not saying engage. Appeal to them. If KPIs didn't matter, what would you do just to appeal to them?" - Joe Chernov  Links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jchernov/    Shoutouts: Reprise Pendo.io Todd Olson Bill Binch Ways to Tune In: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5GpM8myxsUinc5bfLIbjJz?si=0af576adfb8e49f8  Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cheat-code/id1692445190  Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/cb0b3afa-063f-4f3b-96be-b98214c74912  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CheatCodePodcast