John Ousterhout and Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin Discuss Their Software Philosophies

Following up on their recent discussion on software design (inspired by Book Overflow!), John Ousterhout and Robert "Uncle Bob" Martin join Carter and Nathan for their first ever joint interview! Join them as they discuss what it was like working together, how the discussion came to be, and what they both learned from the process!Ousterhout/Martin Discussion: https://github.com/johnousterhout/aposd-vs-clean-code-- Books Mentioned in this Episode --Note: As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.----------------------------------------------------------A Philosophy of Software Design by John Ousterhouthttps://amzn.to/3XCPliz (Paid Link)Clean Code by Robert Martinhttps://amzn.to/4iJ4Ttq (Paid Link)Clean Coder, The: A Code of Conduct for Professional Programmers by Robert C. Martin https://amzn.to/3E9zf9l (Paid Link)We, Programmers: A Chronicle of Coders from Ada to AI by Robert Martinhttps://amzn.to/42aW194 (Paid Link)Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software by Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, John Vlissideshttps://amzn.to/4hRbYa3 (Paid Link)Structured Analysis and System Specification by Tom DeMarco, P. J. Plaugerhttps://amzn.to/3E0Y7QD (Paid Link)Practical Guide to Structured Systems Design by Meilir Page-Joneshttps://amzn.to/4hNd8mV (Paid Link)Design by Contract: By Example First Edition by Richard Mitchell, Jim McKim, Bertrand Meyerhttps://amzn.to/4i4X6VW (Paid Link)Structured Programming by Edsger Wybe Dijkstra, C. A. R. Hoare, Ole-Johan Dahlhttps://amzn.to/42fXfzX (Paid Link)On the Criteria To Be Used in Decomposing Systems into Modules by D.L. Parnashttps://wstomv.win.tue.nl/edu/2ip30/references/criteria_for_modularization.pdf----------------00:00 Intro03:11 Origin of the debate06:52 Motivation for the debate11:35 How did you settle on the terms of the debate?14:30 Overcoming Self-Doubt and Engaging with others20:06 Influences in Developing Design Aesthetics28:45 Taking time for Deep Thinking vs Shallow thinking33:58 Writing Code and Reducing Cognative Load39:05 Encouraging healthy debate42:38 Coding Style, Retirement, and what’s next49:40 Final Thoughts----------------Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5kj6DLCEWR5nHShlSYJI5LApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/book-overflow/id1745257325X: https://x.com/bookoverflowpodCarter on X: https://x.com/cartermorganNathan's Functionally Imperative: www.functionallyimperative.com----------------Book Overflow is a podcast for software engineers, by software engineers dedicated to improving our craft by reading the best technical books in the world. Join Carter Morgan and Nathan Toups as they read and discuss a new technical book each week!The full book schedule and links to every major podcast player can be found at https://www.bookoverflow.io