John Wayne Gacy

In the dead of night, as people sleep, that's when the spirits creep. As the bell tolls three, dark things take power. We like to call it the supernatural hour. And once again, we are back, oh wow, why am I so glad we should have some checks?

Hey, I am your host, Castle, and we are back for another episode of the Supernatural Hour. With us tonight, we've got the one, the only, the man behind the beard, sport in the glasses, we call him beaker, AKA Tim. What's happening? Well, you do that as long as I draw that intro.

It's time to be like you. And on the left hand side, we have got Mike. Hi. I'm also sporting a beard, but you don't have them just beards.

It's not as impressive. Or as bright orange as Tim. Oh, I've got one. We call it the kidneys for that one.

We call that. We call this Oren. Not orange. We call that a royal beard.

There's a couple of grays in there too. And he's a ginger, and so if you're not careful, he will eat your soul. If you have one. Which one?

I have a razor that just means I'm dignified. If I had a soul. If Tim was a pirate, he'd be red beard the pirate. At least your grays are like spread your...

Ginger, me and Lincoln. Although if I remember I had Lincoln was tall and slender. He's a slender. You got the tall going on.

Gingerbread Lincoln, ginger claws for Christmas time. I can see ginger claws. I've been croaching on my claws. When we want to be blessed with my sister, it's ginger Jesus.

I'm not going to touch that one because I need help I can get. I'm not treading on that one. Now that we've totally just offended everybody. The supernatural hour is broadcast on the radio Ronin Network found at RadioRonin.com.

It is where there are several other good shows. And several shows that suck. No, just kidding. They're all good shows.

So last, I was going to say last week but it would not be last week. It'd be two weeks ago when we recorded last. We talked clowns. And surprisingly...

Dude, dude, dude, dude, dude. You know, I kept singing the... Everybody wants to be a clown or everybody loves a clown. Like I was saying I was Buddy Holly.

I'm actually surprised that Greg didn't call me out on this. But it's really like... He's like Greg listened to the show. But he doesn't.

Oh, he does. It's really sung by Carrie Lewis and the playboys. That's kind of like old music. Greg's more of a modern music kind of aficionado.

Though, he does. This was before Greg was born. So we are going to kind of stick with a clown thing a little bit longer. And it was interesting I know how about you guys but when I brought up the topic of clowns, we got a lot of feedback before we recorded that show that there was clowns.

What he was going to record about clowns. We actually quite a bit of material and I think that's what actually turned out pretty easily. You didn't like it. It wasn't my fault.

It's always your fault. That's what my wife says. Oh, she's right. That's true.

Well, let's quit clowning around. And let's get into the show. So this episode, we're actually going to talk about the killer clown, John Wayne Gacy. We try and keep it on kind of paranormal topics or historically creepy topics.

This kind of falls in the historically creepy even though it wasn't all that long ago. But it does kind of fit with our theme of clowns. But before we get going on that, let's take care of a little bit of business. Tim.

Yes. Alright, that's our business. There, it's our kit and car radio over there. Let's go on.

Let's go on. Yeah, so first off, I would like to mention that if you go to advancedparinormal.com, there is a new link that we've put up for our merchandise. You can go and now purchase advanced paranormal or supernatural hour t-shirts. Now, along with that, you have on the advanced paranormal side, you can get coffee mugs, you can get travel mugs.

You can get a tapestry. You can get a tapestry, a pillow. Who doesn't want a supernabog? Yes, coffee mugs or you can actually do a travel mug?

No, the travel mug's cool. No, there was a travel mug. I found that out. There's a little drop down menu and you can do a travel mug.

So you could drink your coffee or non-caffeinated beverage for those in Utah County? If I was going to drink my Utah County beverage, where would I go to purchase one of these things? AdvancedParinormal.com. And where would I find a link?

It's right on the front. It's right on the front. It's in the checkout merchandise. You can't.

I'm trying to help the slow people. You guys, give me a hand here. You can find it. You just have to go to the website.

We've actually had a lot of people asking us about shirts and swag. So that's kind of why we've done this. So if you want to support your advanced paranormal shirt or your supernatural hour shirt at our next investigation, we would love to see in that, this paraphernalia proper word. Or is that just for the stoners?

Yes. I don't know. There's also talks of drawing up and making a design for a piece out butterflies shirt, if anyone's interested in that. You know, I think the all-time bestseller is going to be the Castle Face shirt.

Yeah. I'll buy 10. I'm going to show up with like 20 piece out butterfly shirts. I'm going to pillowcase with my picture on it.

That's just creepy. And I'll just wear whichever shirt of yours the two of you whichever pays me more. I'll just leave it to give you a name. I am a really fat kid.

So if I wore the Castle Face shirt. I guess I'd be like, would your face look like really big? Give it to Mikey. He'll eat anything.

That's right. Yeah. I think we just found Mikey a nickname. Mikey, that's not really a nickname.

No, Mikey the fat kid. He'll eat anything. That's not nice. People will take offense at everything anymore.

That's true. You can't say fat on any of these offenses. But really, we just said it like five times. And you just call yourself the fat kid.

Somebody else is living right now. Hey, there's not a single person at this table who's not within their BMI index. I'm pretty sure I'm fat. I win.

I'm twice the size of both of you combined. I'm about 30 pounds heavier than I should be. If you've got suggestions for anything from Mike, please, come up with me. We already talked about that.

They don't even know that. Body McBoat. Body McBoat face. Yeah.

I don't know if I can trust them. I said suggestions. I didn't say we're going to do a poll. We'll have to get suggestions.

Go to the Facebook page, Advanced Paranormal Services Facebook page. If you have suggestions, be nice. If you're nice, then yeah. It may come visit you and not kill you.

No, and if we like your nickname enough to actually have Mike start using it, you might get an invite to the Paranormal Pollock. Hell, we might even give you a shirt. Yeah. Maybe we'll get a shirt with that name on it with my face.

Speaking of Paranormal Pollock, I'm putting myself under here. We will have more details on the next show, but we will be starting a Patreon here soon. Do you want to talk about the details of that, Tim, or do we want to wait? We can talk about it maybe a little bit.

We are going to start a Patreon. I think at this point we're talking about two tiers. We don't have prices figured out just yet. We're going to get this hammered in.

We want to make sure it's reasonable so that you guys will support us. But I think tier one is going to be a bonus episode. And I think tier two is going to be a bonus episode. An invite to the Paranormal Pollock investigation.

And we are kind of pointing at the idea of the second tier. If you come to the investigation and only if you come to the investigation, a t-shirt. But we will talk about that. We might even also throw in on top of the Paranormal Pollock just one random investigation of each choice.

Yeah, but we'll give you more details on that. So we're going to get it all hatched out and running. We will let you know. But speaking of stuff that we have upcoming on July 20th, it's a Saturday.

We've got Benson Griss Mill coming up. Tickets for this is going to be $35. We might even swing a deal if you bring if you buy two tickets, we'll do it for less than $30. I'm just going to spitball it here on the air.

And I can cut this out if you guys get angry at me. I don't say something else. Let's do this. $35 ahead.

But if you buy them in pairs, they will be $25 a piece for two. So $50. So $50 for a pair or $35 a piece? Yeah, that sounds reasonable.

You gentlemen? Maybe I could get a pair. Or grow one. I think your wife has that actually.

So that's it for business. Go buy your paranormal shirts. Buy your paranormal shirts. Yeah, get the shirts.

And supernatural hour shirts. I'm going to get one. I have a whole concept for it, but I may get some other. Do you know what?

I'm a supernatural hour t-shirt though. No, no one has one. You're correct, sir. I'm going to get a supernatural hour.

I told this to Mike and Terry. I'm going to get a supernatural hour shirt and a supernatural hour travel mug and a supernatural hour notebook. I'm going to get a whole hour phone finger. We don't have those.

But I was going to get all of those things. And then I'm going to show up to every podcast recording wearing my shirt, supporting my travel mug, and taking notes in my supernatural hour notebook. I'm going to visualize them in sunglasses. I have like little beer cozies attached to the side of the straws.

Just to support castles, for all of our slopes, lower people, go to the website right above the picture there. It says check out our merchandise for sale. You click on it. Hey, if you're lucky, you might also have a link to, if you have a right to buy tickets for Prince's Mail.

If you're lucky, if you don't. So moving on. Let's talk recent investigations. What do we have, gentlemen?

I'm looking at you, Mike. Well, for public investigations, we haven't had a recent one that we have. Our last one was Family Tree, which we talked about. I think we're talking about private investigations.

Have you had anything to Mike? We also just wanted to touch on one thing that we missed last episode that was really cool. When we were out at the Benson Gris Bill, and this was the event that Paul had created, when we left the big mill, Kevin, the kid we'd been talking to, this 15 year old deceased kid that kept pulling on the razzle time, he asked if he could come home because he liked our family. And Tim, you told him no, and I'm like, what did he say?

He asked what's known. He told me, no, no, no, no. But then it's me left. Do you want to tell it?

As we were leaving? Which part left or everybody left the upstairs? Yeah, like you were talking about it, after everybody left, but we were still upstairs. Yeah, there was just three of us.

It was me, you and the other Mike. They were Mike. And as soon as everyone went downstairs, the one spirit, I believe his name was Kyle, I think. We talked about him before on the show, I believe.

But he showed up out of nowhere and you could just feel the whole, the energy shifted. It went from happy friend leads energy to, it just felt really negative all of a sudden. And I just got the feeling like this spirit has made it very clear that he's out to get me. He wants to hurt me because I was actually protecting one of our fellow investigators on our previous investigation.

And I got this really strong feeling that he was going to try to trip me down the stairs so we actually put the two mics, we made a mic sandwich. Yeah, I walked down the stairs. Tim, what's the meat? But actually it was really fun.

What was really cool for me is when we were locking up the big mill, it's just you close the door padlock on it, you're good to go. Before they shut the door, Mike had actually yelled inside and asked if there was anyone still living inside the mill. We don't want to lock anybody inside because that's just a long dark, cold night. And they didn't get a response to anything, so they go, okay nobody's in there and they shut the door and lock it.

And they look at me and they see me laughing and they're like, what? And I go, none of you guys heard that? And they're like, no, what did you hear? And I heard plain as day when he asked if anyone was still in there.

A woman yelled back and said, no. No living's still in there? So I actually heard someone respond to your question, but no one else heard it. Well, I thought it was really cool.

It was cool. And we forgot to mention it last episode. I just wanted to touch on that and just kind of share that special experience it was touching. Yes.

So as far as residential as they were, there were three of them and I was only able to make it to one because we had enough investigators at one of the other ones and couldn't make it to the other. So going back almost two weeks ago now, what we could have almost, we had a residential in Salt Lake County. What was going on was the children were having, they said there was a monster and monsters are scary and the monster was making faces at them and doing scary things and they were having just kind of terrorizing the kids. They had some other things happen.

We went out and investigated. We had Angela. We had Dale and myself. It was just a smaller team.

And we got up there. We found that there was a, before we got there, I actually said I had Mary going and checked things out and see if there was anything horrific. She expressed me. There was only a type one in there.

And this is where I was kind of thinking it might be more of a type two, but this is the question I have to pose for these guys. So it was an older male. It was about the information we were getting. And when we investigated, we got the same information that this is an older male and this 60s, 50s, 60s, but he was mentally not all there.

And so for him, being scary and being a jerk was just kind of being funny. So not necessarily a malicious intent. He was just, didn't know better. So would you say that's a 1.75?

I think you're still in type one territory. If they're not malicious, so to speak, they're just fundamentally deranged. And they're, I would classify it as a type one. What do you think, Tim?

I would have to agree. If it's, you know, if there's some kind of mental handicap that he had when he was alive, obviously he's going to have it when he's dead. And so to him, that's just normal and that's okay that's socially acceptable to him. Like you said, he's not only better.

I would just classify him as a type one. Now if he knew what he was doing was scary and like he actually enjoyed it for a different reason, not just because like, you know, to him it makes sense. If he's actually thriving off of people's misery, that's when he gets into type two territory. I'm sorry to say he could have been mean.

And just to clarify for people, in our experience, once you pass away and you're spiritually your body, you're essentially the same as you are when you're alive. It's when you cross over that those kind of impairments and handicaps and things of that nature lift is after you've crossed your body and your spirit kind of say in the same state as when they're here. It's when you make that transition where things change. Because you know, some people get all upset when you say that, you know, if you're impaired or handicapped, you're still impaired or handicapped when you die until you cross over that.

So that's when the good stuff happens, so to speak. He was kind of out of it when we were trying to talk to him. He did seem like he was not really aware that we were there or that we were trying to get ready to get to care. We did also, Dale did take some pictures and send some pictures to Brandi.

And she also mentioned after that there was a little girl that was in the pictures as well that we didn't really talk to her. But it was this gentleman that was causing the problems. And the kids that were there in the house, we typically don't like to have kids there when we do investigations. They're trying to misunderstand things sometimes.

It's also for a safety factor for the kids. You know, if we're going to go stir something up that's rooted in there, lastly we want kids that are susceptible to be, you know, more susceptible to be attacked for things. But the kids did say that that was the good. So we staged them out while we were there.

We also were able to, they asked about a son that they had passed away when he was young and we talked to him a little bit using dowsing rods and hopefully that was a special experience for the family. But we closed the house, the one dude, the mentally not all the way there, spirit left, and the house was good. And the kids even said that they looked out the window and they could see him outside. So that being said, that was that one.

So we also had a couple of repeat. One sometimes happens where we get to go back to a house that we've been to once in the past. And they had two visits this week to previous clients before. And Deant and the team on both of those.

Excellent. Speaking of teams real quick, Tim, did you want to talk about that rumor that you heard and kind of get into safe investigating versus not safe investigating before we get to our main topic? Yeah, so we've talked about it quite a bit. It's on our safety briefing actually before we start investigating.

And I know we mentioned on previous shows because we had someone posted on Facebook asking, or I even had a friend ask me one time, you know, if anyone's considered like getting hired or anything like that before an investigation opened ourselves up more. And you know, it's been a question on Facebook, like, you know, would you do marijuana or something or drugs or drink before doing an investigation? And like I said, it's on our safety briefing. We strictly prohibit alcohol and drugs on our investigations.

There's a rumor floating around out there right now. I don't know if it's sure or not. But if you are on an investigation with a team and they offer you any sort of drugs, don't take them. I mean, for one, it's most likely illegal, especially if it's like a prescription drug or anything like that.

You're not only breaking the law, but you're also opening yourself up more for some sort of psychic attack. I'm not going to just interject there too. If I come on an investigation and I catch somebody handing out stuff or somebody offers me something, I am going to ruin your night in a very legally painful, expensive criminal history kind of way. So it's just, it's for your own safety, for, you know, the safety of the people around you, we highly recommend that you do not take any sort of mind altering drug.

When you do that, you really are opening yourself up to, I mean, you're basically lowering your psychic defenses. Everybody has their own natural innate psychic defenses. Some people are tighter than others. But once you start messing with alcohol and investigations, marijuana, prescription medication, hard drugs, anything that basically alters your perception and alters your mind is essentially lowering those barriers, those natural protections, and you're really just asking for trouble.

It's kind of like dancing yourself with gasoline and roasting marshmallows is about the best analogy I can give you. You might not catch fire, but after winning shifts just the right way, it may be a visit to the burn unit. Just don't do it. And if you're a team that doesn't hear this, shame on you, stop it.

If you're an investigator who does this, I hate to judge, but again, shame on you, don't do it. You're just begging for trouble. I mean, we're not trying to act like bad guys here or anything. We're just concerned about the safety of people that go out and do investigations, whether they're with us or with somebody else.

The last thing you want to do is hear about someone getting hurt or worse killed on investigation because they're not in the right frame of mind. If something like that happens, that's just going to ruin things for everybody. Especially if it's like a venue that everybody loves to investigate, I can guarantee that place is going to shut down and no one's going to be able to go back. Well, quite frankly, there's been a bunch of venues that have shut down because of stupid people that have done stupid things that are venues that have just closed the doors to everybody.

You know, like, we're not trying to be bad guys, but our goal has always been to do this in a fun manner, doing a safe manner, doing a way that is kind of like the old hiking adage, leave no trace. Same thing with investigation. Don't go in, don't make a jackass out of yourself, don't get yourself or somebody else hurt. Just don't create problems.

So now we've kind of beat that horse a little bit. Speaking of getting people killed, let's talk about our topic. Alright, so as Castle mentioned before, our topic this week is on John Wayne Gacy Jr. John Wayne Gacy Jr.

for those that don't know was a notorious serial killer. That was very active 1975 through 79. 79 or 79. Somewhere there.

70s. He was in the 70s. So John Wayne Gacy Jr. was actually born in 1942.

In March 17, 1942 in Chicago, Illinois to John Stanley Gacy and Marion Elaine Robinson. I know John Stanley Gacy, John Sr. He was a man's man. He was a very hardworking.

Let me back the train up here for a second. He was a Flintstones era 1950s man's man. What I mean by that's the kind of guy who would get drunk and beat your ass on a regular basis. We were getting there.

Yes, he was a functioning alcoholic actually, but he wasn't alcoholic. He was a factory worker. I believe he was a salesman as well. He was a business tight man.

He always wanted to son John Wayne Gacy or John Jr. I believe he was the second child of three. He had an older sister and the younger sister. I believe my cousin are names.

The older sister is named Joanne and the younger sister is named Karen. Growing up, John Sr. wanted John Jr. The name of John Wayne, the celebrity John Wayne, the famous cowboy.

He was a badass. Yes. John Sr. wanted to have a son that he could do athletic sports with.

He wanted him to be fishing, fights in the school yard, boys' scouts. Exactly. All that stuff. He was more into the gardening and cooking and stuff that was considered girly at the time.

Sissy stuff. He was often called a... His dad called him stupid. He called him a mom's boy.

He called him a sissy. He called him a failure that would never amount to anything. This is why he even turned 10. This is why at a very young age.

His dad was very verbally and physically abusive. He used to be the sister as well. I was understanding. I hope I'm not jumping ahead of you guys here.

A regular family dinner at the Gacy household consisted of mom, the two daughters, and John Wayne sitting at the dinner table while John Sr. went down to the basement and had his pre-dinner drinking binge. Then he used to come upstairs and start putting a woman on John and his sisters. That was basically dinner for the night.

He just came up and beat the hell out of everybody. He beat mom too. No reason. Dumb stuff.

I know because of stuff like this, John, he started to develop a very close relationship with his mother. His mother would comfort him with food. Because of this, at a young age, John became overweight. Kind of put you back in.

Yes. And that added two things at school because the kids would make fun of him because he was sad. I know during his young age, during the meetings and whatnot, I believe his dad enjoyed listening to them scream. He enjoyed the torture a little bit.

He was a hell of a guy. He was super awesome. Just remember what the Flintstones come in here. That's when the Flintstones were popular in the 50s.

That's kind of the age where you could do that kind of thing. It was just normal to beat your kids. I guess during one of these meetings, John had actually blacked out and that's when they had found out that he had a heart condition. And so with our condition being overweight, it was kind of set in stone at that point that he was never going to be that athletic, you know, out going.

What was kind of interesting? What was kind of interesting at the same point too, was shortly before the blackout. I don't know if something was in that with John Wayne Jr. But you know, he'd get these beatings where he'd kind of yell and scream and holler like a kid would.

And he suddenly stopped doing that, which really pissed his dad off and he'd start beating him harder. But he never really responded the same to beatings at that point. So I don't know if something inside him broke. I don't know what caused that, but there was a moment where this happened where he just kind of quit crying out and just kind of took the beating.

And then the pisses down off and then shortly after, I think that first blackout happened that you mentioned. Yeah, that's when they, like I said, they found out he had a heart condition. I know that at one point, I think when he was around the age of 10, he joined the Boy Scouts because that's what he said. H12.

H12. He was trying to, despite all of this that was going on, he always tried his best to win his father over. He was always trying to get his dad to respect him and like him. So he would still attempt to do things like join the Boy Scouts.

I do know while he was on the Boy Scouts, he met a friend of his that became really a friend that I don't know that I didn't know that he was going to do it. I don't know the name of the friend off the top of my head. I don't know who you're talking about, somebody in Scouts. Yeah, so someone in the Scouts and he did confess to his friend of the Scouts that he liked to take his mom's bra and panties and put them on and pretend that he was a woman.

And sometimes wondered if he should have been born a girl instead. You know, what's interesting too is I found out that his mom was, and one of his sisters were aware of his panty-theaving. And so it was kind of common knowledge in his house, at least between his mom and his sister that he had stolen his mom's lacy underwear. He just said he liked the feel of him.

So, and that's like he's kind of... Mike's like, I understand. Oh yeah, every guy that's ever walked through, never mind. He was probably that kid that would walk through the underwear department and just be touching every single pair of underwear he walked past.

He likes the way that they felt. I was our podcast listener's good visualized about showing, but this is just what I visualized. And I think of John Wayne Gacy Jr. still in his mom's undies.

So, if you've ever seen Shallow Hell. Castle just held up invisible underwear with his arms about three feet apart. Yeah, so I know like he had this natural talent though. I mean, he was always getting in trouble.

He didn't do well in school. But he always had this like natural talent to like win people over and he... It's like Mike. Yes.

Mike's a serial killer. I want somebody over. Twice. We'll see.

We'll see if I can win people over. We'll see what kind of name suggestions coming through on the Facebook page. He always had some kind of like valid excuse or an explanation to get him out of like why he was doing these things. As far as like being bad at school and stuff like that.

I know that at one point, a camera away to the age I think was closer to 14. I think he was hitting the head or something. A metal swing. Yeah, there's nothing good about this swing.

But I guess shortly after this, after he got hit with the metal swing, he started having even more blackouts. And I believe it was between the ages of, I'll say 14 and 18. He says he spent at least one year in the hospital because of these blackouts. And they could never identify what the cause of these were and it was never diagnosed.

And his dad even straight up said he was faking. Could be the severe beings. Could be the swing to the head. But yeah, like I said, they never diagnosed it.

They didn't know what it was. I think it was about the time he turned 18 or 20 somewhere in there. I might be skipping something. But I know when he turned 20, he actually up and left and moved to Vegas for a couple months.

While he was in. I was saying this is where shit suddenly got real and weird. Yes. So while he was in Vegas, he actually was able to take care of himself.

He found a job. He was able to hold down a job. He was a janitor at a mortuary. And there was one night where he was by himself in the mortuary.

And for whatever reason, he decided to climb into a casket and basically fondle a young teenage boy. Oh, you know what? We skipped an important part of his history. Yes, I probably did.

Let's jump back to age 11 when he was molested by a family friend. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, so about age 11, a family friend came over to the house and actually had molested John Wayne Jr. So between the dressing in his mom's lacy granny panties and getting beat by his dad and taking pictures of himself or looking at himself in the marriage dress as woman with lipstick on at times, this kid's already kind of got some issues going on.

Uncle Lester comes over essentially and I'm just making that name up and please touch him and touch your son with him. Yeah, Lester the molester. And so now fast forward to Vegas. Go to him.

So yeah, while he was a Vegas, like I said, he was a janitor in the mortuary and he didn't really have a lot of friends. He didn't really have a lot of interaction with living people because there was really none around. He's in the mortuary. So there was the one night where he decided to climb into, I believe it was a casket with a teenage boy.

And I believe there was some fondling that happened. And it was shortly after that where I guess something snapped in his head again and he decided he needed to go home. So he called his mom and asked for him to move back to Chicago. Well, and his parents had actually hired a private investigator to find him on top of this.

And so they're actually looking for him anyway at this time, try to figure out where he was at. But you know, that's pretty twisted if you think about it to be clung into a casket and basically molesting a corpse. I mean, you're into full-blown necrophilia at that point. And if you look at the haunting and Connecticut case, the snake-dickers, if you're, I don't know if you guys are either familiar with that case.

But it brought some type three activity on because there was a mortician who was screwing around with corpses who lived in that home prior to the family moving in. You know, I'm a firm believer that when you got a serial killer, there's usually some outside influence helping push that. I'm not saying that individual aren't screwed up, they're definitely screwed up. But I also firmly believe that you got some type three spirits that are there just cheering them on and egging them on.

And, you know, what is going to wipe that in more than something like that. I'm not saying that's an entry point, but I'm saying it's certainly a possible entry point. I've been around dead bodies before I used to do tissue recovery. You know, people who pass away from her donors and we'd go and collect the tissue that they donated.

And never once was I ever, did I ever cross my mind that I should just climb up on the table with one of these bodies. Give me some of that. They smell that and they're cold and they're just, and I can imagine climbing into a coffin. Maybe that's just me just being claustrophobic.

You know, I am in a profession where I dealt with bodies on a fairly regular basis. Even a fresh one smells bad. There's nothing good about a dead body. No, there's not.

Wait for a ten to respond. Nope. No, I just, I remember now when I skipped over, when he turned eighteen is when he actually got into politics for the first time. Oh yeah, I forgot.

He had quite the political career up until the point. He got arrested and went to prison for a long time. So yeah, he got into politics at the age of eighteen. He became a precinct captain for the Democratic Party in his neighborhood.

And that just brought on more ridicule from his dad called him a patsy for joining this party. And it was, so the thing that actually got him to go to New York, or I'm sorry Vegas, is that his dad had actually bought him a car. And John was paying his dad back for the car. And oftentimes because it was still, the title was under his dad's name.

And he would take the keys and hide them from him as punishment whenever he didn't do whatever his dad wanted him to do. So he actually made a copy of the keys to the car. So when his dad took away the keys he still had some. It's for you dad.

I'm going to Vegas. Well actually, so what set that off is, when his dad finally made the copy of the keys he actually took the, um, the distributor cap off of the car. So he can drive it. And then once he put it back on, that's when he took off the Vegas.

Okay. Um, John Wayne Gacy also joined what's called the J.C. Junior Chamber of Commerce. That's part of his political career.

Um, was that before or after your government? This was before. So in 1964, 22 year old John Gacy, John Gacy is working as a shoe salesman and he becomes active in the local J.C. He always wanted to be a prominent figure in the community.

He always idolized, you know, politicians and whatnot. And O'Malley was with the J.C.s. He met a book named Marlin. And Marlin's family was better off than the Gacy's, her father owned 3K of C restaurants, which is just, you know, rich people, right?

All the chicken you can have, all the chicken you could ever want. But, um, but they were better off than the Gacy's. And he always, he wasn't really immediately accepted by her family, but they kind of had to because daughters in love with him. So after less than a year of dating, they married in September of 1964.

And Marlin's dad had actually felt something was off about John and tried to persuade him not to marry him. But she did anyway. The interesting thing though is John was actually going to school, business school. And even though her dad kind of felt weird about him, he's also kind of impressed with, you know, how business daddy he was.

And so after they got married, her dad asked him to be the manager of the 3K of C's to basically manage him for him. So 24 years old, John Wayne Gacy. By the way, if anyone's ever seen pictures of this dude for about age 22, about the time they execute him, he looks like he's about 53 years old. Right?

I noticed that. It's this weird kind of empire thing where he just doesn't age. He just looks like this. He looks like the, he gets in the movie, Better Off Dead.

He looks like the guy who owns the hamburger store with a cigar, maybe to an obscure reference for anybody. I've seen that. It's been a long time. He looks just like him, but he doesn't age from age 24 to about the time he goes to prison.

He looks exactly the same. I don't want to argue in his final arrest mugshots. He actually looks younger than he did before. That's probably true.

But when he worked at the KFC's as a manager, he insisted all the employees call him the Colonel. So he got his 24 year old manager going, call me the Colonel. So I'd be curious to see how that went on with the employees. Haven't...

Well, when he accepted this job, he actually moved to Waterloo, Iowa. That's where he started his life and his family after he got married and went to the KFC's. I believe he had two children in me. He did.

So one thing before he moved down there, in February of 66, while his wife is in the hospital in labor, John goes out for a drink of the friends. Remember this though? I'm going to say friend with quotation marks. That's a coworker.

So they're at the bar. They're unlucky, picking up on chicks. So his friend convinces them that when you can't get laid picking up chicks, just go home with a man. So he goes home with his friend because they both strike out and he has his first homosexual experience with a man.

After that, he went to the hospital to be with his wife and newborn son. Okay, I don't even know where to start with. All the things are wrong with that whole statement. Your wife is in the hospital in labor and you're at the bar trying to pick up chicks.

So you can't find a chick, so when all else fails, you just go home with a dude and then as soon as your wife's done having labor, all else, that's just not weird on a whole lot of weird levels. Oh yeah, well this wasn't anything new for him. There'll be more coming down the pipes here. We're going to talk about where he's just one minute.

He's not right. And then all of a sudden, hey everybody. Suddenly the term pipes is making me very uncomfortable. So after he had this experience with his special friend, he went to the hospital with his newborn son and he was very affectionate with his son.

So you're getting wrong with that unless you have to be married in your wife's and labor in the hospital. And he said to have been a natural father, just very loving. And I'm sure he got that from the opposite. He was not from his dad.

The opposite of you being the other. Everybody wants to be the opposite of the negative things they grew up with. But he was natural. A natural father is what his first wife had called him.

And then by joining the J.C.s, by being married and having a son of his own, he finally got what seemed to matter most to him. He actually got the approval of his dad and he felt like he mattered for once. And then that's when he moved to Waterloo, Iowa, about a hundred miles outside of Des Moines. And Marlin's dad offered him a membership of Iowa KFC.

Now what's interesting with his relationship is, so John Wayne Gacy was in the J.C. And basically for their kind of meetings he would basically invite the other members of the J.C. or twice place they'd watch porn. And he would play with alcohol.

And before long they elected him to be the chairperson of the J.C. or whatever. Chairman of the membership drive. Yeah, and so that's kind of how he got there.

Now as part of that he convinced his wife that they needed to engage in the 1960s area of reload movement. So they also started engaging in Swinger parties. You know, spouswap and stuff for a little bit. And wife swapping prostitution, pornography and drug use.

And that's why you have such a good solid sign up for these J.C.s. This all time. The meetings are boring, but the party's rock. Yes, so they're attending all these parties.

I think they were even throwing some of the parties. He regularly cheated on his wife with local prostitutes. And apparently he opened a club in his basement where he allowed his employees to drink alcohol and play pool. Although he employed teenagers of all sexes at his restaurants.

He socialized only with his young male employees. Many were given alcohol before gacing made sexual advances towards them. Which if rebuffed he would claim they were jokes and test of morals. Ha ha, just kidding.

Yeah, pretty much. I got some beer. Can I touch you there? You want to touch my penis?

No, ha ha, just kidding. It was all the test. Wait, you said yes. Come into the back room.

So he's seeing all this evidence and you're doing all these things. They were at the same time they welcome a second child. And John just appears to be a regular family man. I don't think he likes drugs.

The prostitutes, the Swinger party. He has hidden desires. Let's talk about those. So with the J.C.s, he started getting into trouble here.

He actually, the son of a senator, his last name was War Ease. I can't remember the name of the kid. Donald. He's pretty quick on that.

So Donald, he invited Donald over. I did the other finger boop. Wow. Was that just a test of morals?

For those of you listening at home, too, and I just touched fingertips like an E.T. finger boop. It was weirdly erotic. So he invites us Donald War Ease over.

Basically gets Donald drunk. They play some pool. They watch some porn. Then John Land basically forces himself on this kid.

Engages in homosexual sex acts. He actually offered him $50 to perform oral sex on John. Yeah, and apparently these two actually saw each other and fooled around for over the course of a month. But John Land basically told this kid that he had connections with Chicago Mafia.

And if this kid's anything, he's going to be toast. Give him more money to buy him off so to speak to be quiet. And the kid kind of kept his mouth shut for a while. There's a second kid.

I don't know his name. Do you guys have that name, Andy? Oh, not yet. The second kid.

Same kind of thing. But basically he kind of caved under the pressure and actually told. And once he told, then Donald War he actually came forward and reported it as well. Edward Lynch.

Edward Lynch. And while this was all going on too, he apparently tricked several teenagers into conducting homosexual experiments. In the interest of scientific research and he would pay these kids $50 to not say anything about it. Keep it mind, in 1968, $50 is a lot of money.

I mean this was back before I was whenever one of a dollar used to be at the bottom of it. Some of us all to everybody. Anyway, in that part out. The word of awkward Mike Bark?

Yeah, awkward Mikey. Anyway, so yeah, he offered them $50 to do these things. And that's a lot of money for these kids. And so sometimes they'd be willing to do it.

In March of 1968, Donald actually came to his dad who was an Iowa Senator. And when Gacy's name is mentioned to his dad, his dad's like, oh yeah, John Wayne. Yeah, he wanted John Wayne to actually be his campaign manager and work for his campaign. And Donald's like, Dad, don't do it.

And so they told him why they go to the police and Gacy is arrested and charged with sodomy. So, whoa, easy there. I dropped my phone. So I just did a little research on your talking and $50 in 1968 was roughly worth about $4.00.

Yeah. Man, that's a lot of money for a teenager. Yeah, that's a lot of money for me now. For 15 year olds?

$4.00? Yeah, that's a lot of money. So, when the professor said that Gacy basically had molested them, he denied it and he demanded a polygraph test. He was so confident in himself that he would pass this polygraph test.

He felt... He took two polygraph tests. And they asked him, he says he's not engaged in any homosexual behavior, but both polygraphs failed. And then he was formally charged.

And here's the funny thing that the Tamir, not funny actually, it's sad, but he's formally charged and is sentenced to 10 years in the Animosa state penitentiary. So, 10 years for being, you know, for sodomy. Yeah, I've been there. And this whole thing is like, while these charges were being brought against him, he denied that he didn't do anything.

And he said that they were actually, the charges brought against him were politically motivated. Apparently, before he's senior, had opposed Gacy's nomination for appointment as president of the Iowa J.C.'s. And a lot of the J.C.'s actually found Gacy's story to be credible, and they rallied behind him. But, like you said, on May 10th in 1968, he was indicted on the sodomy charge.

And he was given 10 years. So, so, train this time, you know, while he's in prison, his wife divorces him. And he reportedly never sees his wife and children again from this point onward. But while he's in prison, so they already talked about his neck for winning people over.

In prison, Gacy is very social. He sings in the choir. He becomes the head chef. He actually goes for some reforms that kind of make life better for the prisoners there.

The jailer's there, the prison staff likes him. He follows all the rules to the T, and he actually does it better than anyone else, so that he gains the respective others. And people start to see him as a guy who just made a bad decision and shouldn't be punished for the rest of his life. So, they let him out.

Well, you know, you always hear about like the first people to get raped or killed in prison are the Chad and Lester's. And so, when he went to prison, I believe it's not an interview with his cellmate. His cellmate knew why he was in there, but didn't say anything. He actually went around just telling people that, yeah, it was kind of a bogus charge on me in here because I showed some porn to a kid.

Yeah, he basically had the whole prison kind of wrapped around his finger. He left out the whole part where he actually wants to the kids. He just said, all they did was show porn, and that's why I'm here. Yeah, so all the prisoners kind of thought that he was just a normal prisoner, so to speak.

And he actually kind of worked his way to the top of prison hierarchy. I mean, even among the prisoners, he was kind of a, you know, he wasn't, generally when people go to prison with their job much, or they're usually at the bottom of the societal prison tier, so to speak. But he used his powers of schmoozing to get up to be kind of a muck-y muck, if you will, in that prison. In fact, there's actually an interesting segment.

If you go search it up on YouTube, you can find it, but there's an interview of him in prison during this time where basically, I think it's called Christmas and Amarosa, where a new screw-in and a new interview prisoner's, and he was there and he kind of made a name tag that looked like the prison guard name tag that said, first chef, Gacy, and he basically was just like, oh yeah, I've cooked food here, and I've been here for a year and two weeks, and I hope them to be out by May. It was close to that. The prison psychologist says he's most likely will not re-offend, and on June 18th, 1970, he was actually released from prison after serving less than two years, so 10 years and it sees out in less than two. I think it was a total like 16 months or something like that.

From there, he got out and then he did some stuff. That's funny. But I forgot to put it on. So when he got out, he actually got remarried fairly quickly.

When he got out, he found out, he found a divorcee, her name was Carolyn Hoff, like him or his name was Carolyn, Carolyn, Carol Hoff. She was a divorcee with two daughters. She was having a hard time making ends meet. Again, this is the late 60s, early 70s.

And if you're a divorce woman, you don't have a lot of options. It's not like it is today where there's lots of high paying jobs that you can go do, or survivable jobs, but you don't have high paying jobs. But anyway, so he remarried, got back into politics. Now, this isn't like it is today where you can go on the internet and look up and register sex offenders.