Jon Hamm

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We have our old dear wonderful friend John Hamm joining us today. And we are so excited to have a hand bones here today. We are going to talk about so much good stuff. We're going to talk about auditioning. We're going to talk about the best position in baseball.

We're going to talk about bad bunny. We're going to talk about what he thinks Don Draper would be doing now. And we're going to talk about season two of his hit Apple show, Your Friends and Neighbors. John is just such a dear tendoroni underneath all that superman muscle. And so we're going to get into it today.

But we're going to start our episodes like we always do by talking to somebody who knows John. And we've got a great one today. We have Roger Sterling himself, John Slattery, an incredible actor, director, writer, wonderful person who is kind of one of John's chosen brother. So let's see what he has to say. Oh, I'm going to get him on Zoom.

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Slattery, I'm going to talk to him about this, but I just finished a Mad Men rewatch, by the way. Whoa. Wow. How long did that take you? A couple months.

God, Roger Sterling is such an incredible character. Such a complicated guy that you just cannot help but love. And half the time you're like, why do I love this guy? Although, I mean, not just him. I think everybody had, despite their wrongheadedness or whatever moment.

But just when you thought, well, this is just somebody who thinks like this, they're doing something incredibly human or funny or touching or whatever. I mean, he's that thing. All those characters had that. OK, so did you and Ham know each other before you worked on Mad Men? Mm-mm.

So you met when? I auditioned for his part. And they said, and I remember calling my agent back, I was like, are you sure? This is a bar because I was beyond that age. And they were like, that's what they want.

So I did all my homework and went in and read and then Matt and Alan Taylor were there. And then they said, OK, so here's the thing. We already have this guy. And I said, excuse me? And they said, well, your part isn't really visible so much in the first episode.

So there wasn't much for you to read. We didn't think you'd come in. And I was a little like, and then, you know, and then he said, but I promise you, this will be a great part. So then I met him and I was like, oh, shit, you know, well, they certainly do have that guy. Like I realized, you know, that's what that guy looks like, of course.

Yeah. And then day one, he just sent me a picture the other night. Two nights ago of his TV, some wherever he was. And it was him at the desk and me singing across with a drink. And I said, then I could tell from the suit and like my hair was different.

Something. And I said, is that day one? And he said, yeah, no way. Yeah. I mean, what's so satisfying about your relationship from afar is that the relationship you had on the show felt very brotherly.

It really felt like big brother, little brother energy. And if it is your relationship like that too, it feels like it. I think our relationship is more sort of equal. Like our age doesn't really come into it so much. And also he's such a competent person.

It isn't like I haven't even teach him. It's often the other way I was thinking about like, well, what would I ask him? And it was, who does he look to for answers? Because sometimes I actually think, what would him do? Like in a certain situation or whatever, because he's just, you know, he is good at most everything he puts his hand to and smart and complex, all that stuff.

And you kind of, so our relationship was more just kind of, you know, brotherly, but not like a older, younger, like it is in the show. What do you think makes John so competent in your words? Like so good at so many things? You know, you have to be smart emotionally to be that funny. And as you know, you know, you have to be observant and you have to listen.

And you have to, so all that stuff goes into being good at very different things. I mean, he's, it makes sense that he's as good at drama as he is at comedy. Because it's, it's something that he's paid attention to. For a long time. I mean, when I was, I couldn't, I would stand in front of the television.

I would even sit down, I would just stand there with a clicker and go from Oscar Madison to Derek Jacoby to, you know, just get a chunk and then a click and go to get another one and see what, just get a piece of this and a piece of that when it got slower commercial, I go it off to something. You know, just like, just a, you know, a sieve open, just wanting to, I don't know why, I don't know what it was, but I just like wanting to, to absorb everything. Wow. That's such an interesting and true observation is that when I watched TV, I watched it like what I imagine athletes do when they watch sports, where they're watching for, you know, same, I watched performances unconsciously or subconsciously to get an idea of how to do it.

My mother was a big movie fan. My dad was too, but my mother would, she'd go, come in, you have to watch this and I'd have my coat on on my way out. I was like in high school or whatever and she'd go, come watch that. You have to watch this and I sense it, Boulevard or whatever. Some, and I got, I have to go. She'd go, just five minutes.

Just watch. And then an hour and 20 minutes later, I'd be sitting on the couch with my coat on next to her watching the movie. I said, I watched her funeral. I was like, I watched more movies with my coat on because I was, you know, sucked in. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um,

Slattery, I love singing you. I, I'm, you too. I hope we get to hang out in some real way again. We got to be on it. We got to do a couple scenes together once on a silly show called What Hot American Summer in on Netflix. We got to perform together. It was really fun.

So I hope we get to do something again someday soon. Me too. You know, I remember being so impressed that the difference between my own ability to sort of improvise and yours, which was like, Oh, that's how that's a person who knows how to improvise on story. Like not just divert and use some nugget that you have saved up or something, but like that you could do stuff that had to do with the actual action of the scene. And I was just sort of, you and John early, I was watching this thing and I was thinking, man, these people are, this is, this is, this is different. Well, when you don't quote, remember your lines, you have to, you have to have a trick.

Yeah. You know, you have to be like, look over there. Well, Slattery, love you. Love seeing you. Lots of love to tell you, please give her my love. We'll do. And thank you so much for this.

And I'm sure Ham will be so happy that we talked. Have fun saying it. Happy. Thank you so much. Okay. Talk to you soon. Bye. All right. Listen up Ralph's King

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You look great. Winning a Golden Globe really changed you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have two

of them, but yeah. So do I. Yeah. It makes the first one that much more special. It really does.

Maybe you're making me think of that. I feel like we should start with immediately is that you and I started something. Yeah. Maybe welcome to the first one on campus here. Hi guys. Hi. Oh my god. Okay. First of all,

I'm so deeply, deeply happy to see you. Same buddy. Same. It's been way too long. Yeah. I've been

watching your podcast as I do for all my friends, but you I just love what you've done with the place and this is I remember doing with Nick Offerman and years ago, Smart Girls at the Party. And I knew then that you did that you had your finger on the pulse of something very, very special and cool. And I'm glad that this is the further extension of that because it makes me very happy for you. Thank you for seeing that. God, you've done so many favors for me. But you did a you and Nick and a bunch of

people did a major have a baby. That's like we have so much to talk about. I was not pregnant when we started. That was crazy. That was crazy. Well, and also, you know, what's amazing about that is

that there is a physical marker of that time. I know. And it like we have known each other now for we're getting up on the 20 years, which seems crazy. It seems impossible. It does. Everything that I

think is 10 years now is 20 years. No pandemic really through a whole weird thing in that in the 80s to us or the 80s to our kids are what the 20s were. That's like the roaring 80s when everybody wore tuxedos. But I want to start John Hamm. The last time we saw you, you were getting on a hot air balloon on this podcast. Yes, I was on the hot air balloon shooting on a hot air balloon.

And I hope you heard both the Adam Scott and Paul Rede because we talked about you a lot. And, you know, we have talked about you on this podcast and that like early being of guys. And it does feel very fun and magical to talk about not only because everybody was young and like just beginning, but it just feels kind of wild that you all met. Yeah, it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy.

Through Paul, honestly, here's how it's done. Tell us how all the Avengers assemble. Yes, truly at this point. Paul went to Paul's an Avenger. Is an Avenger, man. Okay, that's an

Avenger. Apparently. Yeah. What? What's so angry? Did you have super power?

Should he super power? Turn into ants? Come on, wrap it up. You did it. Grow up literally.

I said actually as growing. Anyways, Paul is from Kansas City, Missouri. Yeah, I am from St. Louis, Missouri. Right. Paul went to the University of Kansas. My dear friend Preston Clark was his roommate,

freshman year at the University of Kansas. Paul would come back with his roommate Preston to visit St. Louis for holidays, long weekends, what have you. And that's when we got to know one another. I was probably a senior in high school and he was a freshman in college.

So that makes sense because there is this big brother energy that Adam and Paul have with you. What you where you feel like their big brother, you're only two years, two or three years older. No, younger. I'm younger than Paul and older than Adam. Oh, really? Yeah. But what gives you?

Also doesn't age. Yeah, he has made a deal. There's there's a very terrible painting somewhere. That is just really rough. He gives you a lot of big brother energy in the way he talks about you.

It's interesting. Why do you think that? I don't know. I mean, I think I've always you probably have had this experience with me too. I always represented older than I am.

Yeah, I've heard you say that when I was like a little kid, I was not a little kid, but like when I was a teenager that they're like, you're buying the beer. Is it cool? Why? Because you look kind of old. I'm like, what? Thanks.

Is it cool? You were tall? Tall. I have a deep voice. I got a beard early.

Like I was just, I don't know what it was, but it was very much that. Yeah. I played all the adult roles in high school and college. All the real fun dad roles. You know, great. You know, I was afraid of Virginia Woolf when I'm like 19.

You should talk to Paula Pell who also talks about she always did the old like same thing. Same thing. Same energy. There was something there. I don't know. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know. But anyway, so that's how I met Paul. And we're talking like 1989. Right. So you're in Missouri and when you know each other.

And you do you say to each other, I want to be an actor. So do I. Paul decides he wants to be an actor. He transfers from the universe, Kansas to the American Academy of Magic Arts in Pasadena. That's where he meets Adam.

Right. I see. Adam's a California kid that. California kid who came down from Santa Cruz. And then we all then this would have been in the early 90s. I graduate college. I come out here in 94, 95, something like that. And we're all there's

this little percolating group of friends that nobody has a job. Well, that's what I'm kind of. Well, Paul was already famous. Like he had gotten early success with whatever it was. I mean, Juliet, maybe. Yeah. Cool. Listen, Romeo and Juliet, kind of were back to back.

But what's fascinating is you unlike some other people who like go through a pipeline before you start working like, you know, the like a Juilliard Conservatory or like Second City or whatever, you kind of go cold into a way. Like come in, arrive. I knew one person, Paul. That was it. And I had an aunt and uncle that lived out here. So I had a place to stay. Yeah.

And then I moved, you know, I found an apartment, found a house to live in out in Silver Lake, which was very, you know, urban pioneering back then. Wasn't cool. I mean, it was cool, but it was out on the edge. Yeah. The swing you took to come out here is very impressive to me because it is like, did you grow up knowing any actors? Did you know anyone that was an actor? No. And did you,

when you were in high school and like, like, when did you, did you do plays? Were you like the jock that did plays? Yeah. My high school was one of those magical places that you were just encouraged to do everything. You weren't siloed. If you were a doc, you weren't just that. Yeah.

And it was small, but everybody kind of knew each other. My graduating class was 95 kids. Yeah. So I knew everybody in my class. I mean, we were kind of all friends, like you were friends with a violin kid and you were friends with a weird, beautiful artist and the kid that could sing opera up somehow at 16. You know, there was a lot of talented kids there. And in fact, from my school,

Ellie Kemper, was one of my students when I went back to teach. I know it's a great, Heather Goldenhurst, who was a Tony nominated actress, Stephanie Sanditz, Leslie Stevens, all these kids that Sarah Clark, who was in my class, was on 24, who dated Paul, Rod, Libby, right. So we had this kind of weird, concentrated energy that was very creative, but we were encouraged. So it was, I didn't know any actors, but I thought, what might not be? And they were like, we need a Willy Loman. We need an 18 year old Willy Loman with the weight of the

world on shoulders. Hey, I'm doing it. Do you ever feel that you could have been a, we're ever good in a sport, enough that you had dreams like every. I thought I was going to be a, I thought, because also the other half of my growing up was my best friend, John Simmons, his dad was a professional baseball player. So I was like, you know, a professional baseball player.

And I was like, man, one of these days, me and, me and Johnson, we're going to be, we're going to play the Cardinals. Probably. What position did you play? I was a catcher. You were a catcher. I always think of the catchers as the little,

little lucky. No, I was kind of the, I was always, I was always this shape. I was always lanky. Mm hmm. Lanky? Yeah, right. I mean, would you say lanky? I mean, I don't want to describe

your body back to you, but I wouldn't use lanky. I feel lanky. Yeah. Am I using a word? Well, I, well, I, I feel like you got shoulders. I feel like you like to carry the weight of the world.

You need it for the briefcase. All of them, both of them. Sample cases that I, oh God. Okay. So catcher, which I have to say, in all of, I used to play softball and all the positions, my two favorite positions were catcher and second base. Interesting.

Catcher because I felt like catcher, catcher. Yeah. You're in every play and you're just like, you're kind of like a coach in a way. A little bit. Don't remember where to go and you're running the room. That's what I liked about it. And second base for almost the opposite reason,

which is you're like, I thought you had it. Second base is a little bit like, short time over here. Obviously in the hierarchy of who gets to call like a pop up. Second base is like the last. Yeah. Second base is like, I wanted to get it.

I just was over. I thought closer to you, but you can chat. You can chit chat on second base. And a short throw. Short throw. Yeah. I mean, I didn't have the arm. I never had the arm, but I had the mouth.

So there was a party that was like, I'm going to catch for the Cardinals. And then, yeah. And then, but here's, here's what it really was, is that I realized probably even when I was still in high school, I was like, Oh, there's people that are way better than this, like, like way, way, way better than me at this. Yeah. Yeah. And so I kind of like, I was early disabuse of that notion. Yeah.

Very, very just, it was kind of like, yeah. Yeah. And also I realized that, and I have a lot of friends now that are professional athletes and you're like, it's a job. Yeah. Big time. It's 24 seven,

even in the off season, you're training, you're training. So you better love it. I know. And I was like, I like it. Yeah. I know. I know. And with sports, when I watched sports or even when I played

sports, I was, I didn't feel like I was playing or watching to like know how to do it for life. You were enjoying it. Yes. But with television and film, I definitely watched it very intently. Me too. Yeah. So to put a point on the end of that story of like not loving, not loving enough

to want to do it. Personally, I love what I do now. Yeah. I mean, I really do. Yeah. And getting to

do things like SNL and getting to produce and develop stuff and getting to have this kind of length and breadth of a career that you can look back on and go, man, I'm pretty proud of that stuff. Yeah. I love that. You did Shakespeare and do you do Shakespeare in there? Yeah. In college.

No. Do you understand Shakespeare? What's happening? I thought it was for I was hamlet. I was hamnet. Yes. I just heard it was hamnet.

No, I did. I really loved reading. This is part of when when I kind of figured out maybe I was going to be an actor is that I would read plays as a little I read like a bananas weirdo when I was a kid because I was a single single mom and an only shot. Yes. So there's that was it. There were no

internet. There were no phones. Video games were rudimentary. Yeah. So it was about reading it. We

had tons of books everywhere and a library card. So I would go to the library, I would check out books, I would check out comedy records. Yes. Those are the two things that I got. What did you check out? Do you remember? I mean, it was bananas that I was a seven year old boy and I had like

Richard Pryor records. Yeah. The name of which I will not say out loud, but you can find out what it's called. Yeah. And Bob Newhart, George Carlin, just whatever was there. And what were your series?

What books were you reading? Like what kind of series do you love as a kid? I read it wasn't really I don't remember there being like YA stuff like that. It wasn't really like I feel like the little house in the prairie was for us. Kind of like, yeah, which I didn't really read it.

Yeah. I know it's for girls. But I read it's for boys too. It is for everyone. It's a lovely story. And by the way, I did read those. I read those. I read plays and it was something that I

would I don't know why I was attracted to them or whatever. I think I was you said earlier about watching TV and like watching it to learn about it. And that was what I thought the plays were. And I would read them and I would read them out loud to myself. So my mom was like, you're a weird kid. But it was I would that was the looking back. I think that was the first time I would think

Oh, maybe I want to do this for real. Your mom passed away when you were young, when we were 10. What was she like? She was a professional secretary. She was a very accomplished lady. She was the oldest

of six kids. She was I don't know. She was she was my mom. You know, it was like one of those I'd loved her. We had an amazing relationship. It's I say this to people all the time. There's never a

good time to lose a parent. It sinks. It just does. I lost my mom when I was 10. My dad and I was 20.

But I have friends that are our age now that just lost their parents that are just as devastated. Yeah. So it was it was brief, but it was significant. Yeah. My relationship with her. And I still have

probably the closest family member in my life is my aunt, her younger sister, who was the cool aunt because she moved out here to California. Yeah. And that's you with when you came out here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, I feels like hand bones the theme of a lot of your work and the

things you do is like like finding your family, like collecting them, choosing them, making it like and you're in a in a business that does that too. You know, it's like the circus comes to town and make new friends and you know, being on a show as we both were for an extended period of time. Yeah. You definitely you definitely forge relationships that are that are pretty solid, you know, and and and don't really dissipate once the once the circus moves on. Yeah, I know if you're lucky.

If you're lucky, if you're lucky. And that's the thing you were talking about, I think with the people part of it is like, you know, you meet, we're all kind of crazy weirdos, you know, with different talents. But boy, when you see when certain people come through your orbit and you're like, man, that person's amazing at that. Well, you must feel the way about people too, because I mean, do you ever get this feeling? I get this feeling a lot where like I meet somebody and I'm like, oh, I, you know, we've known each other before in another way. So a lot. And I kind of

am I wrong that Slattery feels like that for you? Yeah, that's my big brother. If I had a big brother, it would be him. I was I was just watching. I have not watched Mad Men Back since I just finished.

Right. And I think I say sometimes on this podcast, the best thing about knowing other actors is sometimes you get to text and be like, I'm watching your show right now. You're so good. And I think I just did that to you. Well, that must have been the impetus for me starting it, because Anna, my wife, Anna, and I hadn't really why I hadn't watched it back.

Wow. Since the first time. And so we're on like episode five or six now, and I text immediately. Yeah. What happens? Go down me. I texted Slattery. I remember this day was the first day we shot.

And I just remember all that stuff. And it was wild. It was very wild. Obviously that was 20 years ago, 15 years ago. Well, we, I don't usually bring this up early in the podcast, but I will now because it makes sense. So you know, we do this thing where we talk well behind

some of these back before and we talk to Slattery today. And he's the best and he loves you. And we talked about just that about and it's funny because I said, do you feel like a big brother, John? And he said, in a very big brotherly way, he was like, I feel like we're equals. I feel like I learn as much from John as he learns from me. I feel like I'm not teaching him

things. I just feel like we're, but that's also a very big brother thing to say. Yeah. And I mean, part of it was, you know, it's funny for me too, because I remember the first couple episodes or first season of shooting the show and his son, Harry was six as was Kiernan played my daughter on the show. Sally. And now they're 26. Yeah. This lightning and

bottle thing that just all of a sudden happens. I pointed to Matt Menon and think like, I worked very hard to get in that room. Well, I think a lot of people know this. You worked hard and you were really grinding. For sure. Like you were working probably for 10 years in different,

in a lot of different things. And not quite 10, but a solid six or seven years as working actor, on stuff that nobody watched. Just get close to stuff where you're everything. I was the other guy in every thing. And in fact, the year I got mad, man, I had tested, when we used to do that, seven times I'd gone to the network, the last step before you get hired, seven times, seven different projects, seven different projects, oh, four, seven. What do you remember what some of

them were? I don't. Yeah. They were like sitcoms and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and in the old days,

now it just feels like everything gets produced. In the old days, it was like they do a pilot, they test it, they see if it worked. Maybe you get fired, but I did on several occasions. And it's such a bananas way to do it. But that was the, that was how it was.

And the man, man audition process you've talked about many times, it was arduous. It started at the very, very bottom. The first audition was a pre-read, just reading with the casting director. They didn't know my work, not that they would. And it was in Santa Monica, and I lived in Silver Lake. So it was like an hour and a half to get across town in the rain

on a Friday. And I met them and there was another kid sitting in the waiting room. And he was like, it's like a 16, 17-year-old kid. I was like, wait a minute, what's going to go? So you're for the two-day stand, I go, what? No? Then it was like, what, what do they say? They're looking for

somebody. And all the guys in the world are showing her the breaded tape. And it was literally, they were casting the other room was a casting commercial. And then this was, they were like, no, no, we're in here. Hi, sorry. Sorry. And I was like, hi, nice to meet you. Wow. The next day was

another one of those. A few days later was then more and more people are in the waiting room. Then we start to see people that have signed up. You're like, recognize that guy's name. He was on sports night. How did we get it? Yeah. And it was that, that, that, that, that, six, seven,

eight times. And then finally I got to New York. They flew me to New York on somebody's miles. And when you went in for that last one, did you? The last one was, was meet the executives. And

Matthew Weiner to his Creek credit. He goes, I go, do I have this job? Like, what's happening? Flying to New York. Yeah. He goes, I'm going to walk you around the production office and I'm going

to introduce you as Don Draper. And you're going to act like you have a job. Oh, God, that's giving me a job. And I was like, okay. And he's like, hey, this is our Don. You know, it's John. I say hi to

Hair Makeup. And we're going to do this. And he's walking me around this whole thing. And I'm like, I've not heard officially from anybody anything. Oh my God. So then we go to, to meet the executives

from AMC, who are these four very young executives. Yeah. AMC was a young company. We hadn't done anything. We go and we have drinks and we're having a drink. And I'm with Matt and Scott Hornbacher,

the two producers and the three executives and holding my drink. And I'm like, what is this? What are we doing? This is, this is a prank. This is the most elaborate, meanest prank. Yeah. And so

we're having drinks. And they're like, here's the show. And I'm like, yeah, here's to the show. And I drink the drink and we go and and and and I'm like, we get into the elevator. There's still in anything. And and the lady who's in charge finally turns me to me because you know

you got the job right now. Oh my God. No, I didn't. This would have been way more fun earlier when we were having drinks to toast to do it. And I said, no, we didn't. And if we go

down the elevator and the elevator doors open up, there's a million paparazzi in the lobby of the maritime hotel. And I'm like, Oh my God, like, wow, that's that was fast. Like, holy shit. But they're all speaking German. I'm not making this up. In the elevator with me was a very famous

German football player named Franz Beckenbauer. One of the like lions of the German Bundesliga. What have you? And I was like, Oh, it's there for him. Guys, guys, I'm not giving interviews yet. Let me get to the. Oh, in German? Yeah, that's it.

Okay, just a few mama questions. I know, you know, the show is I just, John, that part you that writing that show that show is Hall of Fame. Thank you. I don't disagree. I think it's a great show. I was I was pleasantly surprised watching it back to not be mortified.

I'm so happy to hear that because it is just pristine and your performance is so good, so measured, so controlled. And it like all the characters in the show starts to unravel in the perfect way. It does pay off. That's what's really I think really nice about the show is that as it does unravel, it kind of is a satisfying payoff for kind of everybody. And automatically this idea that like the character of John Draper is being presented in this way, which we like project all this stuff on him just like we would any ad any version of like a person.

And then we realize he is a person like we all are like, but heavily flawed heavily flawed, but yet what I love about the show is people change, but not a lot. So there's never like that has said, and I think it's a great way to describe it. He said, I want people to realize that the characters are going to be just a little bit better at the end, just a little bit. Yeah, you know, just a little change. And Don, my God, you know, the whole arc of the final season is him sort of shedding everything his family, his job, his stuff, and he ends up on the end of the continent, the very end of the continent. And that's kind of when he realizes like, Oh, wait, I'm really good at

this job. I should probably just go back and do the job that I'm really good at. And my question to you is having rewatched. And I don't know if you remember, but at the end, your, uh, Don, let's everything go. Can you just tell me about the scene in the group, the group therapy scene where that wonderful day player, sorry, I don't know his name actor breaks down because he feels invisible. Can you tell me about that day? And reading that because that's a big scene to do at the end of

seven seasons with someone who's not, you don't know. I don't, I don't, that was the whole last half of that season for me was being away from everybody that I had spent 90 other episodes with. That's right. That's right. Sladi and I did our last scene. It's kind of a, it's kind of a weird little nothing

scene. It was just us in a bar talking about something. And I said, you listen to our last scene together. And he goes, what? Because it was like three days of the day, we're done. He's like, no,

isn't I go? He goes, no, I go, yeah. And it was, it's kind of great that it's just that, that moment. It's just, that's what it is. And then you don't see that guy. So there was a lot of that

stuff for me. It was a lot of, it was tremendously difficult. Yeah. Because I was handling a lot of personal Michigan in my life, a lot of craziness. And just being on a show for that long is a lot. And saying goodbye to it. Saying goodbye to it. It's a grief, it's a

grieving process. You know it very well. So that particular scene, we were, we shot out of order. That wasn't the last thing we shot on slate, but we were on location. We were up in Big Sur. Yeah.

So we were even physically separated from most of the stages, all the stuff. Our trailers, I was living in a hotel. It was, it was like four or five days in a row up there. And it was heavy. It was super heavy work. Yeah. You, I very much felt the weight of the end of the show.

Yeah. And the responsibility of like, don't fuck this up. You can fuck anything else up, but you cannot fuck this up. This is the end of a very, very long story. And if you shit the bet on this, it's not going to, that will be what you are known for. But I do remember that thinking that

this kid is killing it. He was wonderful. And everyone in that there were a lot of like writers, inter-crested. And for those people that have never watched Mad Men, don't listen to this part. But it is, there is a moment, not to give too much away for people that haven't seen it, but I mean, it has been 20 years, but the way we're past the sport. John is like gone basically to

like an excellent, like retreat and to basically like, to your point, he's lost everything. And he's in what is an early version of group therapy and the closest he's ever had to actually really, truly sitting in his feelings and a man, another man who doesn't know is expressing this thing that John understands really well. Deep dissatisfaction, deep on what's the right word? Unwardiness. Maybe it's just invisibility you said earlier, that whole kind of thing. And so

refrigerator and all this. It's like, it's a beautiful piece of writing. And it's incredibly emotional moment, not only for this man, but for Don. And there's a connection that they have. Okay, well, I want to slow it down because, you know, I like to talk to the TV.

By the way, I did not know that, but I'm an old person and younger person, but I paused in this moment. And I was just like, this is John Ham. Like, I was like, this is like the moment when you approach and hug that man is such good acting. It's like John, it's so, so good. You did stick a landing.

Well, I felt very, very good about what I did on the show. And it was like, it was like masculinity, which a lot of the show was about. And we are all like, look like John Draper, John Ham, Amy Poehler, all like living in a patriarchal world and trying to figure it out and suffering in different ways. That moment when like two strangers, men up that generation are hugging is so moving. Well, and it's because you don't really, Don gets there under such duress. And it's such a

strange journey that he ends up there. And he's, he's lost this connection with his job, his, his family, his, his everything. It's like the sit-arts are kind of moment of just shed everything and to discover who you really are. And there's a moment. And of course, the opening sequence of the show is this man falling out of a building and everyone's like, this is where he does it.

He's going to jump off the cliff. He's going to kill himself. This is the end of the show. He's going to die. And it's, it could have gone that way. I think there's a version of this story where Don doesn't get it

and doesn't allow himself to understand it. And he's so overcome with his emotion and his feeling of inadequacy and failure and what he's what he has failed at as a husband, as a friend, as a father, as a feeling the blank that he does do that. But he doesn't. He kind of takes it in, takes the moment, feels the feelings for real and has the moment of clarity where he goes like, you know, and it's beautifully rendered with the Coke ad and the iconic kind of moment of this. And he's like, this is who I am. I'm an admin. So he goes, you think he goes back? Yeah. And

what do you think happens for the rest of his life? Like, what is the what is the last act of Don's life? What do you think it is? Long cancer. I mean, for sure. I think he goes back. He is a

successful advertising executive. And I think he finds happiness and peace. I think he connects with his children. Yes. As we know that he passes away. Yeah. You in January, you and Lizzie, you and

Slattery, you and Christina. You got incredibly, incredibly lucky. One of my favorite scenes in the whole show is the scene between, I can't remember, I think it's season five, season four, where we see Don and Joan kind of going out on a night on the town. It's incredible. I mean, Don and Joan never had enough scenes together as far as I was concerned. That's what kind of made it great. There was like

two or three. Everyone in that show is just pitch perfect. And you brought up the smoking. What did you have to smoke? They were like those fake herbal cigarettes. And I think somebody did somebody

watch the pilot just to watch how many cigarettes I smoke. And I think it was something like 80 in a one-hour pilot. This episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. Your heart tells the story of your health. And with the new Apple Watch series 12, you can understand it better than ever. It's got this new

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healthcare in Canada, you know how easy it is to feel lost and overwhelmed. CAMH, the center for addiction and mental health, is Canada's largest mental health hospital and top research center where they're working to transform care and improve access so everyone can get the support they need when and where they need it. But they can't do it alone. It's time for a clearer path to mental healthcare and we can all be part of building it. To learn how, head over to camh.ca slash good hang. So, uh, Parks and Recreation and Mad Men were on at the same time. We were fellow travelers.

We were fellow travelers and we shared, um, you and I shared two things. We shared a production designer and Dan Bishop who did your show and did we used to brag like, Oh, the bullpen of, um, you know, the offices of Parks and Recreation were designed by the same by the did Mad Men. People were like, cool. I can tell. That was a big brag. We were like, um, he's a genius. He's a genius.

And, um, the other thing is that you and I were at a word shows many, many times on the losing end. And so, uh, I got to get to Slattery's question. Sorry. I'm all over the place, but I got to get Slattery's question. But before that, let's talk about Losers Lounge, which we mentioned at the very beginning. What was it? The Losers Lounge was a thing that we decided to do after being fed up with

losing. Yeah. Like, let's take, let's turn this front upside down. Yeah. Let's not live in the, we're not losers. We're winners. We're winners. Only losers lose. Only losers lose and we are not

losers. No way. So we decided that and I still think this is a great idea. I think we should have patented it and I think it should have been permanent. Yeah. That, because also any awards

night, there's way more people that lost than one. Oh, yeah. So we decided that there should be a celebratory place for the losers to hang out, the losers lounge. And if you wanted to come and you were a winner and you had a statue in your hand, you had to pay. Yeah, you had to pay up to charity.

It was all a charity thing. It was a love and charity worldwide or friends, I believe it was. That's right. Um, and the rest of us could get in and have a good time for free. And it was a fun party. We, so we threw a party a couple of years in a row. A couple of different places. We had a

dance off. We had a dance off. We had a dance off dance off. And everybody wanted to get in. And the highlight for me was, I think I told you the story, the highlight for me at the Emmys was the great my hero, idol, Frances McDormand. One for, I believe it was maybe Olive Kitteridge or one of the many

incredible things. She won. And as she was walking up the aisle with her Emmy, she turned me and she was, does this mean I can't go to the losers lounge? And you said, yeah. And I was like, yeah, you're gonna have to pay. And I was like, she did, she came and paid. That time of like being at those places

together and losing was so fun. Because of course, who cares? And also the, everyone's work was so great. Everyone was such a fan of everybody's work. We were all doing great stuff because Tina was on 30 Rock at the time. You were doing parks. I was doing mad men. We had that one crazy fun

night. I broke my toe. We broke your toe. And we were like you and me and Tina and Claire Danes and we were all like dancing like insane people. Like it was the last night on earth. Yeah. And I was,

I had just had my, I had to get on a plane the next day. I had to describe like getting on a plane and like looking at the floor and there's like a pile of hair. She was like, well, what happened? I'm gonna beat that. I had just had my second child. And I flew in for the weekend because I was,

well, yeah, I forget. I was in New York and I flew to California for the thing. I broke my toe on the band cat dancing. I'm a mother of two. I can't, I'm very young children. I can't walk in the

airport. I'm like, I wake up the next morning. I'm like, I can't walk. I have to get on a plane. I mean, I put like a hand on and sunglasses and like take my toe and like try to walk to the, I'm like, I can't get a wheelchair. This is like too much. So I'm like, walk away and I hear Amy and I look

in its Bradley Cooper. And the lovely man goes, Amy and I'm like, Hey, and I'm like, oh, baby. Don't go over. I'm like, Hey, Bradley's like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, I'm very, very bad.

And so he has to hold me like an old like talk about old lady like old night elbow while I like a little escort in. I got a little escort. I got an A-lister escort. Wow. That was a fun night.

The last thing you want the last word you wanted to hear. Oh, but, but worth it worth it worth it. I will never forget that night. One was more was there and moving and grooving. We had a time.

We had a time. Okay, let's talk about you hosting us and now though. And I mean, you're are you five-timer? I just had my fourth. I took three and two years, took a 15 year hiatus and came back this last year. It's been said, and I've been listening to

Seth's thing with Andy and the boys. That was an amazing time there. They're all great. You literally can't stack them up against them because they're all different and they're all great. But it was so fun to be there with you, with Maya, Bill, Fred, Will, Kristin. I mean, Seth,

those guys, you guys were, I felt like we were just talking about speaking the same language. It was like, I felt so comfortable there, which was part of it was you're a guest in somebody's home. So you don't want to be too comfortable where you kind of be shitty. But I really did feel welcome there. I mean, because first of all, I'm sure you've told this story, but pitch on Monday, my first time hosting, you guys all rolled in and cost him. Oh, that's right. Let's tell that story.

We all decide to dress up as the people from the four pitch. Sixty's gear for pitch Monday night, which is 35 people in a room, maybe a little bit bigger than this. So sitting on the floor on the sofa, everyone is in 1960s period gear. Yeah. Hader was in drag. Lux was in drag as Joan.

Let's just John Lutz, right? Hall of Hell. Had a cigarette taped to her finger because she didn't know how to smoke. So she's like, I just taping and she would pitch like this. I didn't know this wasn't normal.

Right. I was like, this is okay. Well, they really do. Monday. That's not it was the whole thing. Okay. Well, nice. This is so fun.

And that was the beginning of a wonderful relationship, not only with that show, but with so many of you guys sitting around that whole week, shooting with Jim Singarelli, you're 95 months pregnant. Yeah. And we've told the story a million, million times, but the fast version is Friday. I was supposed to do the show on Saturday and then. And there was no doubt in your mind that you were not having this baby before.

Yeah. You know, women listening, it's, you know, your first kid, you assume you're going to be at least a few days late. I was weirdly feeling good. I was told you're not going to be giving birth on before your due date. No way. Go finish your last show.

Kill it on Saturday. And my first lesson in mothering, which was like, nope, nothing goes away. Nothing goes away. It's going to go. And I really did think I would do the show on Saturday and then give birth on Sunday and Friday night. We were shooting Friday night and we were doing like a pre tape and I got a call for my OB-GYN.

Office of your OB-GYN's office. My beloved OB-GYN passed away that night. And so, you know, for people who don't know, you get really connected to your doctor and you kind of think about your birth plan and you think about how it's going to go. And all of a sudden, you know, you realize, well, you realize two things. One is that a lot of people can deliver a baby.

Yep. And two. Seth had one in the lobby. That's right. Seth had his in the lobby. That's right. But he didn't have it.

No, he didn't. No, he didn't. Fair true. He didn't have it. He didn't. He wore the same jeans that day that he wore the next day.

He did. No, but, um, yeah, a lot of people can do this. And I got the news and my OB-GYN died. I started to cry. I mean, heavy sobbing.

Right, which is horrifying. A giant pregnant woman crying. It's not, it's really scary. And ham leaned in and said, I know this is hard for you. I'm really, really sad. But this is a big fucking deal for me.

You better pull your shit together. And that's the face she made immediately, which I was like, talk about in the world of big swings. That's a big one. That to me is, and I've written about it. That's why you had the baby.

That's something happened because you laughed that hard. I think so. I think a big hard laugh. Oh, I was, I was like, please let this go. Please let this go well.

And to me, the crying to laughings, which are you, that's like, we get about, we get a few in our life where we're really, really, deeply sad. And then someone says something to make us laugh. And that, those two against each other feels like, I think it extends your life. The Friday night was like, because everybody's so punchy by then. And I wouldn't, I couldn't drag me out of the studio. I was having the greatest time.

Yeah. I mean, it now brings me to Slattery's question, which is, which I thought was just such a sweet question, which is, and kind of back to what we were talking about, this idea of finding community and family in places, all different kinds of places. But he was, his question was like, who do you look for for answers when you're feeling frazzled or lost? Because I was saying, you have a big brother vibe with a lot of people. He feels like a big brother to you. But he was saying, I feel like I think a lot about what would

John do here. Like he takes a lot of counsel from you. Who do you look? Where do you go? That's a really good question. I don't have a, I don't think I have a go to, honestly.

I've been on my own in one way or another for a very long time. So I am very self dependent. I think part of my therapeutic journey has been sometimes to a fault where I won't reach out. I'll just hang on. I got it. I'm learning to get better at that, for sure.

But people, like Lauren, for sure. Lauren, I've definitely reached out to when I've had instability in my life. And part of the magic of that man is that he's so inscrutable and so Canadian. That it's a co-end in some way. You get some kind of weird thing.

Wait, did you say co-end? Yeah, like a Zen co-end. You know what that is? It's like a saying that, you know, how do you spell that? K-O-A-N. I don't know that word. Sorry.

Co-an. Obviously, because I don't have a great definition of it. A paradoxical anecdote, question or dialogue. Well done. Okay.

So he'll say, well, you'll just be on the t-shirt. You know what? You know, it's that thing where you let go and suddenly you're finding yourself on Mulholland. And then maybe Mick will come by and he'll say, go great. Everybody does it. That's so great. But people like that, I find that I very much enjoy

talking to my elders. Yeah. I was not to be super named Robbie, but last night I had an amazing dinner at the Brookheimer's last year. I'm a producer, Top Gun. I think you worked for Jerry.

Not that to my knowledge. Was it that this week? I don't know. Oh, he was. Yeah, Jerry. I never met Jerry in the booth when I was Elinor in this week.

But Jerry, thanks for the job. Didn't know that you were the person that hired me. Thank you for the job. Sorry that I dressed up as Elinor when I came in for the audition. You've been in some monster hits. Bridesmaids. Bridesmaids. The town. Bridesmaids. You're so

funny in it. Not funny. What an incredible movie. Yeah. I mean, some fun movies for sure.

Some big fun movies. How did you learn how to do a Boston accent? How did you? I don't like anybody. Just not like anybody. People can't do it really well.

I mean, I famously did it in the town, but I was making fun of Ben. That was part of why it was easy for me. My guy wasn't supposed to be from Boston. When I met all those FBI guys, none of the Boston PD guys are from Boston. Well, even the way you're saying Boston is the correct way to say. Well, I trust me. We were immersed in Boston. Oh, yeah. You do a movie in Boston. Everybody's

in the movie. Yes, indeed. You're cousin. Everybody. Everybody. Everybody. And we talk about making a

movie about Charlestown. Holy moly. Talk about the guys coming out of the way. You've been told me we were going to cast Tommy and the other guy. Where's the paycheck? Yeah. And where's craft service? Yeah. That's Boston. Everybody.

Yeah. They said we're in the job. Don't work. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, okay. You're like,

okay. You're like, okay. You're the guys that would show up and they're like, oh, but I can't shoot here. I'm up a roll. It's too close to a bank. You're like, oh, okay. Sorry. There were

some characters and it was a blast. It was a blast. And what about 30 Rock? Working there? Tina Fey. Tina Fey. Discuss. Tina. I credit Tina along with Lauren for allowing me to be in

comedies. Nobody thought it's not like when you do Mad Men, they're like, I bet that guy's real funny. He's probably got a bunch of impressions and bits and jokes. True. You're very serious, and Mad Men. I mean, yes. So when Warren asked me to host the show,

I was like, oh my God. That's the only thing I've ever wanted to do since I was, since ever was beyond Saturday Night Live. So I was very excited. And then as we discussed, you guys are welcoming. Here we are. Everyone's in costume. It's very funny.

Read through that week. Packet of 50. I think you were right next to me. I can't remember where you sat. So fun. And then I remember I think it was after we threw our papers on Thursday,

when I was going down to eight to do locking something and the phone in my, in the dressing room rings. Jesus, it's weird. It's like a hotel phone ring. It was calling the room. This is very weird.

And I picked it up. I was like, hello. Is this John? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hi. It's Robert Karlock. We just

want to know if you wanted to come do this thing on 30 Rock. It's kind of love interest for Liz. And I was like, huh? Like the other thing that I wanted to be on is that. And Tina, unbeknownst to me, had called Warren after read through and says, it's got funny. How is this guy?

As Tina is want to do, like, give me the straight up and Lauren. I mean, it's like when you're in that space. We were on parallel tracks. Like we shot our pilots in the same studio at Silver Cup. Right. So we kind of, we were, and they were in for comedy and we were

winning for drama. And it was like, man, 30 Rock, man, 30 works great. Well, you were winning, but they were the show. You and those are not sure. Thank you. Tina's love language is writing incredible material that you get to do. Like that's like how

she's like, it's like, it's the nicest gift is that you start to use. I recently got a text from Tina. That was the beginning of my character arc on the show, where I played a perfectly normal human being. Now cut to season, whatever, where I have two hooks for hands and then falling, falling, and the reason I have hooks for hands is because I thought I recognized my old football coach when I was getting out of a helicopter and I wave twice. So she was like, remember when this guy was a normal person? Well, we didn't last long. Okay. And then the last thing I want to ask you about,

because I love it is I loved you at the Super Bowl. Enjoy bad, and I love people bad, but he came at a time where for a lot of people that was like, we were, you know, we're looking for something. So any, any expression of joy there, any exactly, any artistic expression of joy. I know you are a huge fan of his. You went to like, what was it like watching that and tell me why? Here's why. My wife, Anna, who I met on the last episode of Mad Men. Okay, can you tell everybody

who she played in the last episode? The receptionist of the Esseline like place that girl with the pig tails, who then gets put in the Coca-Cola commercial. Yes. So this woman clearly has an effect on Don and clearly had an effect on John. We ended up getting married at the same place, same location. No. Yes,

ma'am. They better give you that for free. We worked on it. It was a beautiful magical experience and lovely. So Anna had gone to Columbia with her sister and her best friend on a girl's trip, and they would go to the dance clubs at night after dinner, whatever, and shake their butts and have a good time. And they were like, this guy, they keep playing Bad Bunny. No one had heard of

him. It's like 2018. He wasn't even played on the Riggaton stations in in LA or New York. No one had heard of him. And we had started to kind of see each other a little bit here and there. And we go out

New York sitting there, playing this battle. Who is this? Our text thread is called Bad Bunny. That was just our first and I was like, I can take this guy's energy, so whatever. It's over the course of our relationship. This is the soundtrack to our relationship. Oh, that's so nice. So it's

it's just organic. It wasn't. Yeah. So we had heard about he had hosted the show or he was a guest on the show on SNL. Got to go to that. We find out he was doing this residency in Puerto Rico. I was like,

and to honest, great credit. She's always like, what if we did that and it was last? Yeah. Yeah. That was the first time I went viral. It was in the Casita dancing dancing. Just dancing. It was fun, man. He's

fun. We had a dance party at Girls. I love dancing. Me too. And so there's, as you said, the world was a little is a little of a bummer. A lot of a bummer. Yeah. But boy, man, for 15 minutes

of that halftime show. Yeah. And what a message and what a and what a and nothing. You forget that he had to perform that. No kidding. I mean, I always sing along to a track where we're like, no, no,

no, he was jumping off a roof climbing on a pole, spiking a football, you're like, doing a trust fall, like a real one, not a fake one. Up in the air. It's so. 10 out of 10. No notes perfectly executed. Then you go and you listen to the words and you're like,

Oh man, that's a nice sentiment as well. Yeah. Maybe if we look back in five years, this is the tipping point. And if it is what a kickass thing to do. Yeah. Remind everybody that

maybe together is a little better than siloed apart. And yeah. And that joy is kind of great. And then there's a million ways to be an American and that music is like like that when music does that. I feel like, I know you feel a way about music too. Like there's something about music

that can shortcut in a way. Universal language is saying it always because it doesn't matter what kind. It doesn't matter what it is. It can be aggressive. It can be soothing. It can be all

of the things, but man, when it hits the right buttons, yeah, feels good. One homo. One seato. One seato. One seato. One seato. One seato. A little downy. I mean,

do you speak Spanish. I do speak Spanish pretty well. You do. I do. I learned it in high school and then I worked in a million restaurants in Los Angeles. Yeah. And then you get really good. Do you have

an accent? Like a, is it? Do you have a, do you have a? And the last question I have for you is, what are you laughing at these days? What are you watching that's making you laugh? And it can be doesn't have to be something. You know what I watch

recently that really made me laugh that I think you would really like? Yeah. It's a show out of Canada called heated right now. No, it's not that. That's a bit. That's called a bit.

It's, but it does have to do it is Canadian. It does have to do hockey. It's a show called Shoresy. Oh, I love Shoresy. That is making me laugh. And you know what? It's all about what we do. Yeah.

Cry. It's making. She's a really great show. Okay. I've only watched clips of Shoresy because, you know, I, I, I've seen him on six episodes of season. Oh, really? Oh, I love that. You can watch

all of them in half a day. And him. Okay. Let's watch. So Jared T so okay. Tell me more. Was on a show

created a show called Letter Kenny. Yes, which is a very, very Canadian show, but very specifically funny. Maybe not to everyone's taste as things should be. Yeah. Comedy is very subjective. Subjective.

And the reason he did this was because he came to LA and they were like, you're too Canadian. You're too this or too that. And he's like, fuck, I'm gonna go back on the make it. I'm gonna make my own show. And he did. And then he spun it off into this thing. Shoresy. And it's about this

kind of local hero legend he plays on the local men's hockey team. And it's kind of the point of pride for the small town in Northern Ontario that they live called Sudbury. And the core of the course of the of the series, they went to championship and he becomes a coach and he tries to teach kids. And it's, it's a tremendous show because it, it highlights most of the people in power that are running things are women. Many of them are First Nations Indigenous Canadians.

And it's not made a big deal up. It just is. Yeah. And his relationship to all of that, while being this bruiser is very soft. Yes. Yes. I mean, I've seen this real high pitch voice.

It's really kind of funny. They're always interrupting. They're always and they're overlapping dialogue is really tremendous. It's a tremendously ambitious show that delivers. So I'm trying to pump their tires a little bit. I want to find out the scenes where he's hitting on. Oh, when he hits on the girl,

we really loves it. So I'll make you so happy. That's the stuff that I see. And it's so funny. It's also like it's also deeply sentimental and heartfelt. Agreed. That was I was like, oh,

I want to show because his move, his comedy move is like, I'm going to love you so hard. And she's just like, I'm not interested. And it's so good. Treat me. I want to enjoy the perks that come along. It's summer and Sunday.

Start fucking play it down carbon. No, I'm not fucking bellow horizontal. I need to be sure that you're sure. Oh, so good. So good. Such a good show. Okay, we got to check that out. Well, John Hamm.

Amy polar bear buddy. I don't have a lot of straight men on the show. So I've been telling a lot of doors a lot of walls. You know, that's nice. You know, and I should probably do a great everybody's to great.

All of our buddies. Yeah, I know. All of our buddies. It's nice to be first of all, it's so great to see you. I really do miss you.

We don't hang out enough. I'm glad we got this one in. Same. You are the best in the biz and consistently make me smile and happy and look forward to your new show, which I know is coming out. I'm talking to sure. We didn't even talk about

your friends and neighbors season three coming out. It's so great. It's so funny. Congratulations on another big show for Apple. Yeah, season three starting. We'll start shooting

that in late April season two will come out in early April. And it's very fun. Stuff shooting in New York. See, I know. Lots of nights. Yeah, lots of nights.

But I saw that for season. I was like, oh, you have to break in at night. They almost broke me on that. I bet I was like, we got to find a way to break into these houses during the day. Well, I'm very happy to call myself one of your chosen sisters, Ham. You're happy. I'm happy to be one of them.

So thanks for doing this. Thank you. Love you too. Thank you so much, John Ham. It was so good to have you and see you and I love talking to you.

And you know, John and I talked about a lot of things. And I mentioned a very brief anecdote about probably my favorite actress, Frances McDormand. And so for this polar plunge, I just wanted to remind you all how great she is. I just re-watched No Mad Land the other night and oh, God, that is a good performance. She's just good in everything. She's so interesting and smart and

just so cool. And Frances, if you're listening, I love you. Never change, please. I'm just a big fan of your work and check out Frances's work. You know, it's these kind of polar punches. Thank

you, Frances, for your work. And thank you, John Ham, for coming today for your work. And thank you just for, oh my God, I don't know how to end this. Okay. Bye everybody.

You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for the show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weisbergman, and me, Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, and Elia Zanaris. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weisbergman.

Original music by Amy Miles.