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It's Wednesday at 9.30 a.m. Eastern Time. We are, I don't know, 32 hours or some such thing away from the NBA draft. I wanted to do a last-minute check-in on all the big intel.
Quickly, rapid fire. Let's get through it. Jonathan Kaboni, how are you? I'm great, Zach.
How are you? I'm good. You must be all hopped up on caffeine and ready to go. I'm fired up.
Let's do this. All right. We know who the number one pick is going to be. Congratulations to the Spurs.
Number two, your latest intel on the Charlotte Hornets, who are in the middle of an ownership change and have kind of an old-school regime that doesn't do as much of the chitter-chatter as a lot of front offices do. What do we know? Well, as Woj and I reported, they brought Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson back for a second workout. It was important for outgoing owner Michael Jordan to get face time with these guys, have a meal, sit down, get to know them, and watch them go through another workout.
Because the sense was, Brandon Miller's first workout was kind of eh. He kind of went at half speed. He wasn't super engaged. His conditioning level isn't at the level that Scoot Henderson's at.
Scoot Henderson has been doing two-a-days for the past three months. I mean, he's in incredible shape. He's an incredible athlete. And the sense of urgency on his part has just been so much greater in the first workout.
And I think prior to that workout, they were, you know, leaning towards Miller. They said, you know, he's a better fit on our roster. We think he's going to be a multi-time all-star. We saw him score 41 points in that SEC game.
They were at a couple of G League night games. And Scoot Henderson didn't play hard, you know? And so, but they got the opposite impression from the first workout. So they brought them back for a second workout.
And the intel that we're getting was that Brandon Miller was much better. He went much harder. He was told, hey, if you want it to be the number two pick in the draft, which he very much does, you better prove it. And so he made shots.
They put him in some, you know, defensive situations where I heard, like, you know, he made some very, very impressive plays. The meeting went very well. And, you know, as Adrian reported yesterday, I mean, all signs are pointing to Brandon Miller being the number two pick in the draft. Could things change between now and then?
Sure. You know, but I mean, if I were a betting man, that's how I think it would go if a draft was nice. And that would be a big deal, not just for the Hornets making a pick that is at least somewhat about positional overlap and somewhat, obviously, about talent, too, but with a mellow ball there. But it would be a big deal.
But, Jack, the sense that, you know, the notion that, like, there's this gigantic gulf between Scoot Henderson and Brandon Miller from a talent perspective, people that I talk to around the league just don't share that sentiment. A lot of people have Brandon Miller ahead of Scoot, even, you know, ignoring positional fits. So I don't think that it's just, you know, we have LaMelo, we don't need another point guard. Let's just say Brandon because it's an easier fit if we want to win a game tonight.
Well, that's good. That's refreshing to hear. And I've heard the same stuff about the, you know, how much of a talent gap, if any, is there really. It's also a big deal because that means Scoot Henderson would be there at three.
And that's where the Portland Trailblazers are drafting with a 32-year-old point guard who I think has made no secret that his preference would be that they trade the pick for veteran help. Now, it's different. Why is that? I mean, would you do it really that far?
There's a difference between, I think, I think I would. I think they would, his camp would prefer that, but there's a difference between prefer and if you don't do it, all hell is going to break loose. And I think that gray area and that distinction is important. Also, Charlotte taking Brandon Miller and leaving Scoot at three would be a big deal because the Pelicans have made no secret of their adoration of Scoot Henderson.
And the Pelicans have, I think one of the only veteran, veteran may not even be the right word, one of the only trade ships, current present day players, that the Blazers would have to have a pretty tough meeting about trading number three for. And that's Zion Williamson, obviously. The Hornets, yes, could they want Zion Williamson? Would they be interested?
Sure, any team would at least have a meeting about Zion Williamson, but they're in much less of a win-now position or wannabe win-now position than Portland is. And that is the most interesting pivot point of the draft. We've already talked about it a lot. And the two big questions is like, so we can talk about all these players that are theoretically available for number three, right?
The Raptors guys, you know, the thing that Damian Lillard doesn't have to worry about as much as Joe Cronin and whatever the ownership situation there is, who's calling the shots from that perspective, is being a steward of the Trailblazers franchise over the long haul. Damian Lillard does not have to worry about that as much as that brain trust does. And so you look at the Toronto guys, like Siakam, he's going to get paid a lot of money really soon. OG Ananobi, he's going to get paid a lot of money really soon as an expiring contract.
Are they worth a number three pick that, I don't know what you, I'd actually just post this to you. Most, because you're a draft guy, I'm not. Most executives I talk to say this number three pick is worth more than the average number three pick in an average draft. Some drafts you have incredible top three or four, some drafts you don't.
Have you heard that same kind of sentiment? Like this is almost like a 1.5 kind of pick? Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of people feel like this is a three-player draft. There's three number one picks in some regards, and that they're sitting at three.
And really, the choice is going to be made for them. You know, so the idea that they're going to trade this pick for 60 cents on the dollar and, you know, for an overpaid, over-the-hill guy that, you know, helps them in the very short term, I just don't buy it. You know, I don't see it happening personally, but, you know, anything can happen on draft night, but I don't sense that they're under the impression that, you know, that if they make this pick on draft night, all hell is going to break loose and literally going to storm into the office the next day and say, you guys lied to me, you have to trade me right now. You know, I mean, they are going to explore what the value of this pick is, and if they can make a trade, that's an obvious no-brainer for them, they're going to do that.
But I just don't sense that that trade is out there right now, and so, you know, if the draft were being held right now, I mean, I think they're making that pick. So, let's just go through the guys real fast. And it will be on an expiring. I just don't think you can trade the number three pick for him.
It's an interesting debate. He's a good player that we keep waiting for him to be great and healthy at the same time, and it just hasn't happened. See, Ockham would be a fantastic fit, and he's on Dame's age timetable, but that's going to be a huge financial commitment. And again, for a pick that some would value as, like, a number two, number 1.5 pick and a draft, a chance to pick a potentially transcendent player you could have for 15 years.
It came out yesterday that they would like to take a run at Bam on a bio. That was met with laughter from the front offices of the Miami Heat, who are not going to trade a step-back kind of trade, let alone one involving Bam on a bio, who they consider a franchise pillar, who has proven himself a playoff winner for a team that has made two finals in four years and has a superstar entering the back end of his prime. Let's say so that's not happening. Mikael Bridges, Dame has made no secret of his affection for Mikael Bridges.
I don't, I just, the Nets aren't going to do that. I continue to hear the Nets are not going to do that. Simons in three is not going to get Mikael Bridges to Portland. Even if Portland would do that, the Nets aren't.
And when I push back on that, I've asked a lot of people, like, are the Nets being a little too haughty about what Mikael Bridges is versus what Simons in the number three pick are? Would you have that kind of discussion? What do you hear about the reasoning? I mean, some executives say, yeah, I think maybe they're turning up their noses a little bit.
But I would say most that I've pulled think the Nets are being rational. What do you think? I honestly haven't heard a ton about this, you know, Bridges for number three conversation. Maybe because, like you said, it's just a non-starter for the Nets.
And, you know, it probably might not be something that Portland wants to do either. So I just haven't really heard a lot about it. And I mean, part of it has to do probably with the fact that the Nets don't own their picks. And so for them to go into this, you know, prolonged hair down when you don't own your own draft picks, that just doesn't make a lot of sense.
You're just helping the Houston Rockets more than you're helping yourself. I hear that. And I hear Mikael Bridges is going to be an all-star from the Optimists. And he's on a dynamite contract for three more seasons.
Like, he's just too valuable. He's an incredible character guy. He's so many one on your team long term. Even though he's a little older than people think.
I think, what, is he 27 or 28 already? I think he's a little older than people think. But, and I can't really quibble with that. And I think what you said is hit the nail on the head.
The Nets own so many picks from Phoenix and one from Philly and one from Dallas that I think you can trick yourself into the idea that they can do what some other teams have done where, oh, we own so many picks from so many other places that we don't even have to worry about the fact that we don't control our own picks. We can do whatever we think is optimal, even if it's a teardown, because we're betting against all these other teams. And maybe at some point, even if, you know, our picks are out of our control, we can luck into a high pick for one of those teams. But those picks, the majority of them are 20, 27 and later.
20, 23 Suns is already conveyed. 20, 25 Suns looks like a pretty good bet right now to be like a low first round pick. Obviously, the Suns think it could get a little volatile post field. And the rest are 27, 28, 29.
That's a long time to wait for that wager to pay off. So I agree with you that that's a big part of the Nets considerations here. Finney Smith, you know, Royce O'Neal. I mean, those are the names that you hear more around the Nets, you know, like would the Lakers or the Nets, you know, look at a deal with like 17, you know, 17 for 21 and Royce O'Neal, it probably makes more sense for the Lakers than it does the Nets.
But like, I think those are the kind of trades that you might see potentially on draft and more so than in the Calvary district. Yeah, I've heard the Nets are asking pretty steep prices for both of those wings from teams that have acquired about them. I know Cleveland is going to kind of be desperately searching around for wings. And that's, you need to save a little money.
That's one thing. The Nets, once they have Cam Johnson back, A, they have a million wings. And B, if they retain Cam Johnson, they're going to be right at the tax for a team that isn't worth being at the tax for. So I could see like one of those guys moving in a cost-cutting move that also brings back the draft asset.
But from what other teams have told me, they are asking a ton for both of those guys. Real first-round pick equity. That's probably bigger, as you say, than moving up four picks in the draft. But things don't get really serious until, honestly, this afternoon, today and tomorrow.
You know, everybody's kind of posturing right now these past few days, you know, in terms of asking for the moon. And then the prices are going to come down, I think, you know, leading up to draft night. There's also the possibility, and I'm not sure how much I buy this, that the Nets look at the Portland situation and say, well, why can't we position ourselves to get Damian Lillard and keep Mikael Bridges and not go for number three in Simon with all the picks I just talked about? As I've said before, I think that would be a pretty interesting debate within Nets' ownership and front office altogether, making that decision.
Whether Dame, at his age and at that salary, which is huge and worth it, Damian Lillard, first-team, second-team, all-NBA-level player still, coming off the best season of his career, whether that's the guy to cash in the chips for, depends a little bit now, saying, well, did the Bradley Beal trade kind of re-normalize the market for some of these mega-contracts? I'm not sure that's the case, considering the no-trade clause and just that's a one-off, but it's an interesting thought process. If the price were right, I think you'd have to consider it. If it ends up being like all the chips, that's a tougher question for the Nets, knowing that at least a couple of teams like Miami are going to be sitting there saying, well, we're ready now with a team that's ready to win now, and we're ready to up the ante a little bit.
Yeah, I also just, I'm not sure that there's a huge appetite on Portland's side to trade Damian Lillard. You know, I just think that, you know, they're going to build a statue of this guy when he retires, and he started his career there, they wanted to end his career there, they really value everything he does, having him around, they're young players, they think he's in his prime, they think they can win now, they want to make another run at being competitive here, making the playoffs, and saying, hey, if we have the best player on the floor, we have a chance in any series against anybody in the West, maybe exploiting the Denver Nuggets. Well, the Nuggets exist, and are going to be really, really good. I just keep coming back then to Zion, not because I necessarily think any of this is really, really, real, and really, really imminent.
I agree with, I mean, the teams that have called Portland about three have been shoved away pretty aggressively. Have you heard that same thing? Like, it's just not realistically attainable, have you heard that? Not for what being offered.
So, you know, them making the pick, I don't think it's just posturing. I don't think it's just a negotiating posture, and they really are looking to trade it to please Dame, and they're just trying to up the ante. I think, as stewards of the organization, I really do think they would like to make the pick, and try to tweak the team around Dame, and at least get Dame to give them to the trade deadline, to figure out how good they are with that construction of the team, of Lillard, Simons, Sharp, Grant, Nurkic, Scoot, bring back Theibuller, Reddish, and Drew Eubanks, and Trenton Walker, use the MLE, the big mid-level to fill out the bench. Which, not sure that's good enough, not sure that's good enough, but the other question is, is, like, the other iteration of this, where they go and get a big-time player, is that team good enough?
When they trade the number three pick in Simons for a big-time player, are you throwing sort of good money after bad, and ending up in, like, a slightly better place, but ultimately the same place? That's the debate worth having, I think. Yeah, if a big-time player is out there, which I'm just not sure he is, the problem is that, like, there's not a lot of teams that, you know, are looking to take that big step backwards, and, you know, enter, like, into a rebuilding situation, and trade one of their, you know, maybe their best player for the number three pick, and that's where, I think, this is where the hurdles are, in terms of, like, getting fair value for that pick. Baseports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place.
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Sign up for Activate now. What are you hearing on Zion? Like, is this, are we just spinning our wheels for no reason? I mean, I said it a week ago that I would be very, very surprised if Zion got traded, and nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed, yeah. I mean, I don't see Zion getting traded. You know, they were the number one team in the West when he got hurt. You know, if he's healthy, he's a top five player in the NBA.
I mean, when he's played, he's been incredible. You know, like, everybody's searching for that type of player. I'm just flashing back in my mind to the Zion Williamson draft. The amount of hype that there was around this guy, I mean, the season that he had at Duke was so incredibly impressive.
I mean, he might be the best athlete in the league. He can handle, he can pass, he can shoot. I mean, you can play in any position. And I just don't, you know, like, it's going to be so hard.
They haven't really cashed in their chip and, like, and trade Zion Winston at this point it's just such a tough question on multiple fronts, like, from both perspectives. The risk of, if he hits for another team, and he's just starting a five-year contract. He's just starting it now. Like, it's not like New Orleans is under any time pressure at all.
He's 22 years old. And it's not even a bad contract, even given his health issues. Like, it's the mini young guy, Max. You can totally live with that and live with the risk.
And it's got all the stipulations and the way that it works. From Portland's perspective, if this were, and again, I'm with you. Like, it's hard to know what to believe at this time of year. There's a ton of posturing.
The reason I keep this discussion alive is because, although I've heard the same stuff on both ends of this that you've heard, the unlikeliness of Zion being traded, Portland taking number three and using it on a young player being more than just a posturing stance, this feels like the one where, as you said, when things get on the clock, a lot can happen in the next 48 hours. It's the one where there's, like, enough smoke that I'm not extinguishing it completely. And from Portland's perspective, you think, well, you know, he was at his healthiest and most committed when he was here working out in Portland around Nike, right, in the offseason. And I think he's a guy that Dame would be interested in trading that pick for.
And if it hits, it's a once-in-a-lifetime chance. The if is obviously bigger with Zion than almost any player in the league. And this is an organization that, by the way, I don't know how much this matters to their franchise psyche, but a lot of the injury ifs for them have gone the very worst possible ways in the most high-profile spots for a long, long time. Like, there are some injury scars in Portland, metaphorical scars and literal ones, that have really hurt that franchise over the years.
The other thing is, like, let's line up the team. Just for fun. This is just fun. Just fun.
We're having fun. And we're going to get the draft stuff. If your team is, let's say you trade Simons in three for Williams. Maybe more.
Maybe you got to trade even more. I don't know what the hell. I don't know how to value him. Okay, so your starting five is Lillard, I guess Sharp.
Let's say they re-sign Jeremy Grant, Zion, and Nurkic. For now. For now. That's your starting five, probably.
Off the bench, you have all the guys that I just mentioned. It's not a great bench. Not a lot of proven guys off that bench. Shade and Sharp was the best guy off their bench.
Toward the end of last year, you got all the guys I mentioned. You got Jabari Walker, who I thought was pretty solid. Re-sign five, but whatever you end up doing. That team's good.
It's a good team. It should be an unbelievable offensive team. You have two of the ten best offensive players in the league if they're healthy in game and Zion. Defensively, I just don't know how they survive well enough to be even a credible defensive if you're playing Sharp, Lillard, and Zion together.
That's where I think Nurkic, not quite being the same guy, comes back to hurt them a little bit, and that's a position that they probably need to upgrade. And I can hear people saying, well, you can't compete with Denver, so what are you even doing? But, you know, the rest of the West is in a state of flux, and you can't always live in a, well, we can't compete with the number one team state of mind. That's the one that would keep me up at night.
Ultimately, it would depend what I thought about Scoot as a franchise-level building block. And if I were bullish on Scoot, I probably can't do it. I just can't do it. I can't absorb the injury slash whatever else is going on, but it's a tough one.
Yeah, I mean, I just, I keep going back to 2019, that incredible season at Duke, shooting 75% for two, you know, just Zion was must-watch TV. You know, Zion was the victor of that draft. People were saying, this is a generational prospect. This is the best prospect we've seen since LeBron James.
That was four years ago, when Zion has played 26 points a game in 32 minutes. You're talking me into it now. You're talking me into a trade that's probably not even on the table. You're talking me into it.
It's unstoppable offensively. You know, so it's just like, if you're going to trade it for anybody, I mean, here's the thing. I'm not a doctor, so like, I have to get, my doctor is on the line with New Orleans doctors, exchange the medicals, you know, what is the likelihood of him staying healthy? And then I'd probably want to have like a face-to-face meeting with Zion and say, Zion, where is your head at?
You know, like, are you, do you want to get out of this rut that you're in with this crazy woman that's tweeting at you nonstop, you know, like, come, and so like, that would be the only type of trade that I would entertain. I don't really see it happening, you know, but, man, Zion is a hell of a talent. Yeah, it's a tough one. That's the toughest one.
And like I said, Portland, you got a lot of holes to fill. They don't have any holes offensively. They got a lot of holes to fill defensively and roster-wise. That team could be good enough to at least catch Denver's eye.
And, you know, again, I keep saying this, like, who else in the West do you feel like has a stable two-year roadmap to greatness? And the obvious answer is Phoenix. And I do think, like, I did the Beal thing the other day. Like, I'm probably a little bit on the optimistic side of both that trade and how that team projects.
And by the way, from what I'm hearing, that trade is not done yet. But from what I'm hearing, the plan is, tentatively, I think Washington's getting all the seconds and all, with some of the mechanics to be worked out because there's a third team involved, and all or almost all the first-round pick swaps that Phoenix can do. And the Jordan Goodwin coming to Phoenix thing was kind of a small little prize for Phoenix. So I think Washington's getting almost everything there.
But, you know, like, at the same time, is that team so much better than they keeping Simon's the number three team that it's worth the upgrade given Zion's health risk? That's a really tough question. The one, the other one, Mark Stein reported last night that, I don't want to read it exactly because he phrased it the way he wanted it phrased. League sources tell the Steinlein that the Clippers have left various rival teams with the impression through their draft week conversations that they are, at a minimum, attempting to gauge Paul George's trade value and to hear some describe it, giving real consideration to the idea of disassembling the Kawhi Leonard-Paul George tandem.
So, like, what that means is teams have talked to the Clippers and maybe kind of come out of the conversations thinking, huh, are they sniffing around, like, what they might be able to get for Paul George? We're not sure. And then some of those teams have been like, are they maybe just busting up the whole thing? Like, there's nothing definitive there.
But immediately that started speculation. Like, well, Paul George for number three? Is that a thing that the Blazers would do? What is your reaction to that?
My sense is that people are looking at some of the candidates that the Clippers are looking at with a 30th pick and saying, you know, these aren't players that you're looking to, you know, maximize your winning window with right now. We're talking about guys like Dariq Whitehead, 18 years old, Ryan Repairs, just turned 19, Gigi Jackson, ready to help a team right now. And so they're saying, oh, maybe the Clippers are getting ready for a rebuild. Personally, I don't really subscribe to that theory.
I just think that the Clippers are looking at the roster and say, like, we need to have fine talent, man. This is a very, very deep draft. There's some really interesting young guys who are following, you know, for one reason or another, you know, whether it's medical concerns or just, you know, they're just not physically ready, you know, or bad interviews, you know, or whatever, Gigi Jackson's case. And so I think that that might be, I don't want to speak on science, but I think that might be where some of that is coming from.
And so, yeah, I just, I don't, I'll be very surprised if, you know, the Clippers just hit reset on this thing right now. It doesn't seem to be where they're at, but I haven't explored that enough. If I'm Portland, like number three for Paul George, who's been injured a lot, it's nothing I can entertain. And I'm a, I mean, remember, I'm hashtag Paul George is a boss.
Like Paul George is amazing. You know that I'm blocked by Paul George on Twitter? What'd you do? I have no idea.
I actually asked him one thing. Oh, why did I block him on Twitter? He's like, I don't remember. I must've said something that he didn't like when he was in the draft or whatever a million years ago.
And even though he doesn't know, he doubled it. You're still blocked. He probably after that interaction, he's like, yeah, I'm going to keep that block, like, through him, so. I like it.
I like you. Look, commit to it. Commit to it. Here's what I've heard about the Clippers.
About two days ago, the buzz I started to hear was not trade related, but that the Clippers were at least considering in the event that Kawhi Leonard, who's eligible for an extension in July, and Paul George, who's eligible for an extension in September, I might have those two flipped around, but I think those are the correct dates for them. In the event that they ask for an ironclad four-year max extension apiece, that the Clippers were actually prepared to put up a fight. I'm not 100% sure this is true. This is just a buzz I've been getting.
That they're prepared to have a discussion about, listen, guys, like, you don't play. You play, you've played, like, half the games together. We can't give you, going to your late 30s, ironclad, guaranteed, all the years, extensions. Would you have a reasonable discussion?
This is what I've been saying since the end of the season, about a 2 plus 1, about a 2 plus partial, about just something to acknowledge the reality of what has happened in the last four years, when, yes, you got us to a place we've never been before as a franchise, the conference finals, but also, you're just, both of you are hurt all the time, and the minute we ramped up Kawhi to postseason intensity this year, after a pretty careful load management plan, he got hurt again, and I think maybe that buzzing around the league has created the secondary ripple of other teams, thinking, oh, well, those are pretty imminent decisions. Are there next level decisions after that? That's what I, that's what I think. You want to go back to the draft?
Sure. Rapid fire. Precious little talk at, wait, is there any more Portland stuff? Have we done all of it?
I think we've done all of it, right? There's no, as of now, if both of you and I were betting money on it, and we are not, I think you and I would bet on stability, that Portland makes the third pick and Zion stays in New Orleans, but obviously, I would be barfing in my toilet if I bet a lot of money on it, like, in the hours leading up to the draft. This is the NBA. Anything can happen.
Precious little buzz about Houston at four and Detroit at five. You released a new mock yesterday with Jeremy Wu. Are they just making those picks at this point? I mean, teams are still trying to jostle around, but what do we hear about those two teams?
All indications are that, you know, from around the league, people I trust, is that people were just, are penciling in a man Thompson into that spot. He had a fantastic workout there, apparently. Probably his best one. I know that, you know, I just, I don't, I think that a man Thompson is probably going to be the pick there.
There's still a lot of question marks about around Harden, you know, is that window closing there? And so they just, it's going to be very hard for them to, is the Harden to, you mean, what? Harden to Houston, you know, I mean, it's like, I don't, you know, a month ago or three weeks ago, it was like, oh, Harden to Houston, done deal. You know, like it's, the story has completely slipped since then.
And so I just think Houston is going to go into tomorrow with the assumption that we don't know it's going to happen Harden. We're going to take the best player we can at four. And I love a man Thompson, man. This guy is a mega, mega talent.
I just, actually working on a kind of OTE thing. So I've been rewatching a lot of OTE stuff. Holy cow, is this guy talented. I mean, if I'm a Houston Rockets fan, I'm very, very excited to have him on my roster.
So I think a man Thompson at four and at five to me is where the draft really starts with Detroit. You know, we all kind of had Ken Whitmore there at five initially. A lot of teams have moved off that, you know, we're hearing different things now, you know, Jairus Walker, potentially a lot of them. Asar Thompson buzzed there at fives of the Thompson twins could go back to back four to five.
I mean, you hear teams like Utah would love to trade up with nine and 16, but I don't think that ownership is going to be very, you know, it's going to be very excited about trading down. They had some opportunities to trade down last year at number five at JNIV and ownership said no, no. So I don't think that I think they're going to be saying Pat is my understanding. And it feels like, you know, Asar Thompson right now, but that's very talented at this stage.
The two teams that other teams tell me they've heard either from the most or just the most just not noise, just like activity from are Atlanta and Dallas. Maybe not the most, but among the kind of busiest. Atlanta is picking at 15. Dallas is picking at 10.
Obviously they've been linked in sort of fake trades in which they swap those picks with stuff going to Dallas. What if you pick one of those teams? Like what were both of them? Like what is, what is actually going on with those teams?
Yeah. I mean, you just heard this jostling going on between Atlanta at 15, Dallas at 10. I'm sure, you know, Atlanta, you know, people say would like Dallas to pick John Collins. Dallas would much prefer Clint Capella.
Sorry, I now get an electric shock anytime I guess on the podcast mentioned the John Collins trade rumor. So I apologize if I appeared stunned for a second. I've designed my, I've designed a contraption to stop that from happening. And the question is, you know, where do the picks end up?
You know, who has 15, who has 10? I think that, you know, Atlanta, if they trade Capella, they would like to keep the number 15 pick where Dallas says, no, we need 15 and Capella, you know, we're not giving you 10. And so like that seems to be where it's breaking down. You know, a lot of chatter around Atlanta also regarding DeAndre Hunter.
You know, could he be a guy that's on the move potentially? I mean, we're all, everybody's looking at their cap situation. Exactly. They've got these extensions on the horizon.
DeJounte Murray, Sadiq Bey, Onyako Okonwu, you know, they're going to be pushing up against that second apron. And how good of a team are they, you know, like with all those extensions? And so that's where, you know, there's a sense that like Atlanta needs to do something either on draft night or in free agency to clear up their books. And, you know, but I think they'd like to keep that 15 pick at the same time.
And so like, are they going to be able to accomplish both? A lot of agents have said that that's a situation that they've actively avoided because they feel like their roster is very deep. You know, there's no, what is the pathway to playing time? You know, like they had A.J.
Griffin, who probably was a top 10 rookie, you know, in terms of performance, you know, and he's got, you know, very high upside too. Basically, you know, like put on the bench and you're going to play, you know, like the latter part of the season. And so I think people are looking at it and say like, there's probably other teams, other situations in that range, that 10 to 20 range we'd rather be at because there's more of an opportunity for playing time there. You know, you know, I don't want to send my guard there, next man's case in Wallace, Huchafino, and then he's stashed in the G League for two years.
You know, I mean, that's not what these guys are hoping for. They want to hit the runway right away and start playing. You know, whether that's realistic or not, I don't know. But so that's, you know, some of what you're hearing out of the Atlanta front.
Yeah, the cost-cutting thing is going to be interesting, not just for the Hawks, but with the new CBA looming across the board. And I've heard, I've heard everything with Dallas, for instance, from, I mean, obviously there are all these paths, but they just draft 10, they could try to trade 10 for a player who helps them now with the Luka and probably Kyrie tandem and fits with those two, assuming that Kyrie goes back. And I've said all along, I think that's easily the likeliest outcome for now. I've heard, could they try to trade back if they can't find that kind of deal on the clock?
If they can't find a player for 10, that really helps them win. Could they try to trade back in a cost-cutting move, just to kind of clear a little bit of flexibility? I think those kind of cost moves are going to be, are going to be interesting to monitor. Utah, 9, 16, and 28, and a whole boatload of cap room.
Maybe the team with the most immediate optionality in the NBA, not only do they have a whole boatload of cap room, they have unprotected Minnesota picks up the wazoo, unprotected Cleveland picks up the wazoo, extra other picks in the wazoo. They could do, I mean, if they actually wanted to make a run at three, which I don't think they do because the price is so prohibitive, they could do what we always thought the Thunder might do and what the Thunder have done kind of in piecemeal mode over the years of like, here's some extra picks, a lot of them. Can we get from nine to wherever? I haven't heard much chatter about that.
Have you? They just have so much stuff. Oh, I've heard that they've reached out about five, they've reached out about six, they've reached out about seven. And, you know, the sense among teams is that they feel like they need to get ahead of Washington if they want to draft Anthony Black.
The coaching staff, from what I've heard, is very high on Anthony Black. They've got a big gaping hole there in the backcourt. He could come in and start right away, be their starting point guard, you know, like him and Colin Sexton would be kind of an interesting backcourt there. So that's, but I don't think that any of those teams are doing that, you know, I mean, there's, it's kind of viewed right now as like, you know, the tiers of the draft, there's Victor and then it's, you know, it's Scoot and Brandon.
And then, you know, from four through nine, you know, that's a big tier. I would kind of split it up in half there, but like after nine is where it really falls off, you know, we're talking about, you know, Taylor Hendricks and Jairus Walker and Cam Whitmore and Anthony Black. I mean, one of those guys is going to be there at nine. And, you know, the question is, are they going to settle for like the ninth best player in that tier?
Like, could they trade out? I don't know. You know, like you said, they have a lot of flexibility and go a lot of different ways, but I think nine is also, it's a pretty, it's a pretty interesting spot to be in the draft if a Whitmore or a Taylor Hendricks is there. One thing I'm pretty confident Utah is not going to do is splurge on a free agent who really doesn't fit their timeline.
They have all this cap space, but the free agency class is pretty weak. I like the idea of Van Vliet for them just to get a floor general there, but I don't think that's a thing that is going to happen based on what I've heard. Just an interesting team. Ditto for Indiana, who has what, 7, 26, and 28 or something like that?
29, yeah. I know a lot of teams have called. And 32, which was a lottery night, sort of flipped the right way for them to get 32. That's a Houston pick, is it not?
I can't even remember whose pick that is. I know a lot of teams have called Indiana to get to seven. They're another team that has a bunch of picks and cap space this summer. What are you hearing about them?
I think there's a lot of options on the table for them. They could trade down, they could trade out, but I mean, my sense is that like, there's a lot of talent in this group, and so it's going to be hard for them to move off that pick. You know, you see this every year. Teams get these players in for workouts.
They do all this research on them, and they fall in love with the talent. And in this case, I think it's very much justified. You know, like you look at a guy like Asar Thompson, for example, if he's there at 7, I don't know. sure he is uh that's gonna be hard for them to move off that or jairus walker or someone like that who could actually really fit their roster right now so my sense is that ownership is being very patient in indiana which is kind of a far cry from how they were five or whatever plus ten years ago they are looking at you know what happened in denver the way that they built their championship team and they're saying guys let's not cut any corners um you know for us to trade the number seven pick for deandre hunter or someone like that doesn't make a lot of sense let's get the most talented player we can get here regardless of position you know and just let's just build for the future because we have something very promising we're building here tyree's halberd you know maybe the best passer in the nba um ben mackeron had a good rookie myles turner had a rejuvenated season um you know they got some very interesting you know young more and more to these trade offers maybe just get to the point where they have to make a deal it's gonna be an interesting night i just keep coming back to portland at three and the fascination that everyone has about what they're gonna do there and even if there's just a two percent five percent whatever chance of like a three for zion swap being actually in play that's gotta be awfully tempting it's gotta be awfully tempting even though scoot is also awfully tempting and you know if you take scoot and dane gets mad you gotta be prepared to live with that now like we talked about don't you know that's coming if this guy's in your building every single day watching scoot henderson work out watching scoot henderson film sitting in on their draft meetings you know talking strategy like don't you think they've had this conversation i assume so yeah so and also like all these people are human beings there's i'm sure people are torn in multiple directions and have multiple things that they'd like to see happen or things that they're debating between and feel strongly about on both sides and you know we saw with beal and beal and dame have been connected for so long as these giant contracts in the will they want they kind of thing we saw with beal that washington was basically able to like everybody washed their hands of it looking more or less okay like like washington went to beal and was like i know you want to win and you want to win here i don't think we can do that on your timetable let's let's let's take care of this in a way that makes you happy and us happy and and tells the world we knew all along that your priority was to win in washington we just couldn't make that happen and so this was the situation like optically i think that was a good that was a good move for washington good move for beal and i don't know what's gonna happen with dame but um like you said you think they would know the answers to these questions with 40 hours left before the draft anything else you want to hit before you get out of here uh you want to talk about toronto what do they do on draft night i don't know i don't know we talked about siakam and and obi gary trent opting in and presumably getting an extension was kind of interesting interesting for both sides i just you look at masai ujiri's history this guy is not afraid to take a swing you know he did it with kawaii kawaii was hurt he didn't want to be you know there were questions about whether he wanted to come in toronto long term they took him on a rental for one year and so i think the they're fascinating because they could go in so many different directions on draft night you know so what do they want to do do they want to trade up do they want to go get a star do they want to tear it down um i don't know you know but i you know just masai seems like the kind of guy who you know does not you know like he will take a swing he came into a press conference at brooklyn you know so like he might you know who knows what you know what they're going to do on on draft night and that's kind of interesting story because they have a lot of talent you know like pascal siakam 24 8 6 assists last year i mean og i don't know one of the best two-way players in the league gary trent opting in scotty barnes rookie of the year their situation is still very attractive i think if you're breaking you know the futures of i mean they have to be in the top 10 you think about ownership and their fan base and you know the city that they're in so i think toronto's gonna be a really interesting team to follow on draft night yeah for sure for sure the interesting thing about siakam is i think the jury's out he's not a number one option on a great team that's not what he's gonna be but he's played like that now for several seasons in terms of how much the ball is in his hands and how much he command all the attention and runs the offense it would be interesting to see him transition back if they ever were to move off of him the team getting him would presumably want to do so to transition him back into a secondary number two option kind of role it'd be interesting to see how he would adapt to that i think fine but it would be there is just such a duplication of not just skills but sort of style between and in obi and in particular barnes and siakam that at some point unless somebody makes a leap as an outside shooter between pascal and scotty at some point one of those guys is gonna have to move it it's not gonna be scotty because he's gonna be the future of the team but to your point that doesn't have to be now doesn't have to be now despite the salary pressure and the contract time tail pressure there's a lot going on john we have a lot of work to do i'm heading into the city for a whole bunch of meetings you gotta just get into your bunker with nine phones like joe dumars and get the landline work get a landline just in case somebody's gotta reach you and cell reception is down do you have a landline i like the idea of you having like a red phone on your desk just in case no i mean anyone i haven't had one ever honestly so maybe that's what i need to look into just pay thirty dollars a month for nothing for the for the security of the call can come to the landline if need be johnny gavoni uh your coverage is second to none buckle up try to take like a 20 minute power nap get ready thank you sir thanks back have a good one