This Sunday pressure campaign. Just four months to Election Day, a defiant President Biden vows he's staying in the race. I am running to go to win again. But as his poll numbers plummet and Democrats consider Vice President Harris at the top of the ticket, pressure is building for him to drop out.
I think it's a legitimate question to say, is this an episode or is this a condition he has to show that he can do the job? He does not have a lot of time. Can the 81 year old President reassure his party he's still fit to serve? I have a cotton test every single day.
Every day I have a test every day I do. I'll talk to Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California. Plus, power surge. The Supreme Court rules former presidents have immunity for all official acts, delaying Donald Trump's election interference case and postponing his sentencing in the New York hush money case.
If you don't have immunity, you'll just have a ceremonial president. What will it mean for a potential second Trump term? I know I will respect the president's powers I have for three and a half years. But any president, including Donald Trump, will now be free to ignore the law.
I'll talk to Republican Senator J.D. vance of Ohio, a potential Trump running mate. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News White House correspondent Mike Nemele, Amy Walter, editor in chief of the Cook Political Report, former Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Welcome to Sunday.
It's Meet the Press from NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Walker. Good Sunday morning. President Biden is in an all out effort to revive his candidacy after that debate performance last week that raised questions about whether he's capable of beating Donald Trump and serving another four years in office.
One veteran House Democrat tells NBC News opinions are hardening in many quarters. That action has to be taken and that action is a different nominee. Both House Democratic leader Joaquin Jeffries and Virginia Senator Mark Warner are convening groups of their colleagues to discuss the path forward. And a growing number of Congressional Democrats have called on President Biden to step aside.
Mr. President, please look at what's happened. Recognize that the reality out there may not be the same thing. You're hearing from the circle of your closest friends and family and consider putting our country first.
The campaign has been very, I think, arrogant in their response. We want to know what their plan is to win this election and turn these numbers around. If they don't have a plan, then I think we have to move in different directions. It's like talking to a loved one about such a tough situation.
You tell that person he can't do this anymore. The decision about whether Mr. Biden stays in the race may come down to raw data. In a new Wall Street Journal poll, former President Trump has opened up a six point lead over President Biden among registered voters, the widest gap in that survey since 2021.
Mr. Trump leads by nearly 9 points among registered voters. In the New York Times CNN College poll, He's up by 6 points among likely voters, his largest lead since 2015. And Vice President Harris performs slightly better in a CNN poll within the margin of error.
But a Bloomberg Winning Consult poll shows a close race in key battleground states. Now an increasing number of big Democratic donors are calling on President Biden to drop out. The lifeblood to a campaign. In politics, the lifeblood is money.
I talked to a bunch of big donors and they're moving all their money to Congress and Senate. I mean, I cannot believe we're in this situation. But the President has been defiant. He is not dropping out.
On the trail in Wisconsin, and in an exclusive interview with ABC George Stephanopoulos, President Biden insisted only the Lord Almighty could make him change his mind. If the Lord Money cannot joke about the race and get out of the race, the Lord of Money's not coming down. I agree that the Lord Almighty's not gonna come down. But if.
If you are told reliably from your allies, from your friends and supporters in the Democratic Party in the House and Senate, that they're concerned you're gonna lose the House and Senate if you stay in, what will you do? I'm not gonna answer that question. It's not gonna happen. But the interview did not calm the widespread panic throughout the party.
Former Obama senior advisor David Axelrod said President Biden is rightfully proud of his record, but his quote is dangerously out of touch with the concerns people have about his capacities. Some Democrats have also expressed frustration that the President refused to commit to taking a cognitive test. Have you had the specific cognitive tests and have you had a neurologist specialist do an examination? No, no one said I had to.
No one said they said I'm good. Would you be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cognitive cognitive tests and released the results to the American people? Look, I have a cognitive test every single day. Every day I have that test.
Everything I do, the answer right now is no, you don't want to do that. Right? I've already done it on Monday, the Supreme Court gave former President Donald Trump a monumental legal victory, granting him sweeping immunity from prosecution over official actions in an extraordinary expansion of executive power. Aiming to capitalize on that, the Biden campaign is now arguing the decision is added proof that Mr.
Trump will be more dangerous in the second term. If you stay in and Trump is elected and everything you're worrying about comes to pass, how will you feel in January? I feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the goodest jobs I know I can do, that's what this is about. And joining me now is Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California, a candidate for Senate.
Congressman Schiff, welcome back to Meet THE press. Thank you being here. Great to be with you. It is great to have you here.
I want to get your gut reaction to that interview on Friday night. Obviously, the president trying to turn the page. Based on what you saw, do you think he is still the strongest candidate to beat former President Trump? Well, ultimately, this is a decision President Biden is going to have to make and President Biden alone.
But I would say this. He has been an extraordinary president. He has created millions and millions of jobs. He has expanded, strengthened our naval alliances.
He has brought back in this country. He has brought about the most aggressive attack on climate change. He's done more in one term than most presidents ever do, no matter how many terms they get. And he's running against someone who's a pathological liar, someone who ran the country into the ground by his mishandling of a deadly pandemic, someone who is a pathological, not only pathological liar, but is immoral, indecent, unfit for office.
But the performance on the debate stage, I think rightfully raised questions among the American people about whether the president has the vigor to defeat Donald Trump. And this is an existential race. Given Joe Biden's incredible record, given Donald Trump's terrible record, he should be mopping the floor with Donald Trump. Joe Biden's running against a criminal.
It should not be even close. And there's only one reason it is close to that's the president's age. And what I, what I would say, Kristen, what I would advise the president is seek out the opinions of people you trust. He's obviously talked to his family about this, and that's important, but he should seek out people with some distance and objectivity.
He should seek out pollsters who are not his own pollsters. He should take a moment to make the best informed judgment. And if the judgment is run, then run hard and beat that SOP Congressman, what is your opinion? I mean, you watched that interview on Friday.
A lot of Democrats say it was fine. He certainly seemed stronger, more robust than during the debate. But it didn't put concerns to rest. Are you confident he can beat Donald Trump or do you think he should drop out of the race?
The interview didn't put concerns to rest. No single interview was going to do that. And what I do think the president needs to decide is can he put those concerns aside? Can he demonstrate to American people that what happened on the debate stage was an aberration, that he can and will beat Donald Trump?
Given the Supreme Court decision now essentially making any future Trump a dictator. Nick King, it's all the more important. But here's the thing. I think if the president takes the time to consult people and has an open mind about this, he will do what Joe Biden always does, which is he will make the right decision.
You make the decision in the best interest of the country. That's what he has always done. I'm confident that's what he will do here. You heard Nancy Pelosi say that it's legitimate to ask was this an episode or a condition?
President Biden refused to take a cognitive test. Do you think he should take a cognitive test? Look, I'd be happy if both the president and Donald Trump took cognitive tests that said, yes, you think he should take a cognitive test. They both should be willing to take a test.
I think, frankly, if that would show Donald Trump has serious illness of one kind or another. But ultimately the decision is going to come down to what Joe Biden thinks is best. And if his decision is to run, then run hard and beat that sob. And if his decision is to pass the torch, then the president should do everything in his power to make that other candidate successful.
Let me ask you about next steps because obviously there are going to be meetings like Capitol Hill and Jeffries Mark Warner concerned about down ballot races. Are Democrats in trouble with Joe Biden at the top of the ticket? Look, there are concerns with the impact on down ballot races if the president doesn't do well, is he dragging down down ballot races as we speak? You know, at present our down ballot candidates in the Senate and House doing well.
They're all ahead. They are running well ahead of the president. But you can only run so far ahead of the president. And so obviously Joe Biden is going to need to consider for his own sake and his own legacy, can he beat Donald Trump?
He's the best to beat Donald Trump, but also the profound impact this decision made, the most important presidency will have on the House, on the Senate, on the future of the country. You know, Congressman, when I talk to Democrats, one of the exchanges that frustrated the most from that interview on Friday was when he was asked what happens if you lose? President Biden said it's about whether he gave it his all. Is that what it's about?
Is that answer satisfying to you? No, that is the answer that most concerns as well. This is not just about whether he gave it the best college try, but rather whether he made the right decision to run or to pass the torch. That is the most important decision for him to make right now.
This is about whether this country remains a democracy, whether we veer off into some kind of pseudo dictatorship. Everything's riding on this. And I know people feel an urgency. I feel an urgency.
But I would tell the president, slow down and take the time to make the right decision here. That's best for the country. You laid out the stakes right before the debate. You noted that the country is divided.
This will be a close election as it was back in 2021. Play a little bit of what you said. You can't discount the chance that if he loses again, when he loses again, that he will go to even greater lengths to try to overturn the results. The only remedy really is the one in all of our hands, and that is to make sure that Joe Biden wins overwhelmingly, that this is not close.
Congressman, overwhelmingly. Can President Biden win overwhelmingly by any stretch at this point? Either he has to win overwhelmingly or he has to pass the choice to someone who can't. It's as simple as that.
Because what the Supreme Court did in that decision was give the next occupant of that office, whether Joe Biden or anyone else, nearly dictatorial power. I want to ask you about that coming up. Let me very quickly ask you about the vice president. You saw the polling.
One poll shows her doing better against former President Trump. Do you think she's a stronger candidate to take on Donald Trump? I think the vice president would be a phenomenal president. I think she has the experience, the judgment, the leadership ability to be an extraordinary person.
She win overwhelmingly, Congressman. I think she very well could win overwhelmingly. But before we get into a decision about who else it should be, the president needs to make a decision whether it's him. I don't want to get into a debate.
I don't think it's good for the party to get into a debate over, okay, if not him, then whom? But rather, let's focus on the final decision. I want to get to immunity. How quickly does he have to make this decision of the next week, the next 10 days?
It needs to be made promptly. But frankly, more important than speed is getting it right. Let me ask you about the immunity decision. In the past, Mr.
Trump has accused you personally of fraud and treason. He's called for members of the January 6 committee to be indicted, as you know. Are you personally concerned about the former president's threats against you should he be reelected? Of course.
I think anyone who's on his enemies list should be concerned. What scares you most? What concerns you most? Well, what concerns me the most is what the court just did was to basically tell Donald Trump, you can do anything through the Justice Department, you can do anything through the military.
These are core responsibilities of the president of the United States. You have unquestioned immunity for whatever you do. And even outside of that, you will have such a strong presumption of immunity as to be irrebuttable. Donald Trump already had very few guardrails.
All the people of stature of the Secretary Mattis and others, he drove out, replaced them with out of sick offense. He would start with the outer sick offense and he would start with no guardrails whatsoever. He was talking about bringing Liz Chiya before military tribunal. If there's anything that should show the American people that he is unfit to be president, if statements like this very quickly given those high stakes, should President Biden drop out and pass the torch to Vice President Kamala Harris or someone else who you believe the maneuver lonely.
I think Joe Biden should take the time, talk to people outside of his immediate circle, talk to people he respects, people with objectivity, people with distance, and make the right decision for the country. And I'm confident Joe Biden has always made the decision in the best interest of the country. It is the fundamental distinguishing distinction between he and Donald Trump. Donald Trump you can always count on to do what's best for Donald Trump.
But Joe Biden you can count on to do what's right for the country. All right. Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Good to have you here in studio. When we come back, Republican Senator J.D. vance of Ohio, a potential Trump running mate, joins me next. Welcome back.
In a landmark decision this week, the Supreme Court ruled former presidents have immunity for their official acts. The blow to the Special Counsel 2020 election interference case, Chief Justice John Roberts writing from the majority quote, the president is not above the law, but under our system of separated powers. The president may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers. In a scathing dissent, Justice Soda mayor wrote that the ruling effectively creates a law free zone around the presidency, writing in every use of official power.
The president is now a king above the law. Joining me now is Senator J.D. vance, a top finalist to be former President Trump's running mate. Senator Vance, welcome back to Meet the Press.
Good morning. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being here. I want to talk to you about the immunity rule and the implications.
This is what Donald Trump said last year about wanting to target his political opponents. Take a listen. I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America, Joe Biden and the entire Biden crime family. Senator, if former President Trump were to win, if you were to be his vice president, would you support him appointing a special prosecutor to go after his little enemies, the Bidens?
Well, first of all, Kristen, I find it interesting how much the media and the Democrats have lost their mind over this particular quote. Donald Trump is talking about appointing a special prosecutor to investigate Joe Biden for wrongdoing. Joe Biden has done exactly that for the last few years and has done far more in addition to that to engage in a campaign of lawfare against his political opposition. I think Donald Trump is simply saying is we ought to investigate the prior administration.
There are obviously many instances of wrongdoing. The House Oversight Committee has identified a number of corrupt business transactions that may or not be criminal. Course you have to investigate to find out. So I think Donald Trump saying, look, let's do the basic work of investigating wrongdoing is a totally reasonable thing for him to do.
And frankly, the Biden administration has done far worse. So if you think that what Donald Trump is proposing is a threat to democracy, isn't what Biden has already done a massive threat to our system of law? Senator, just to be very clear, though, Joe Biden didn't appoint a special prosecutor. The attorney general did that.
Trump was indicted by grand juries. He was found guilty by a jury of his peers in Europe. But can we just go back to the core question here? Would you support him taking such an action?
It sounds like you're saying yes, you would. I would absolutely support investigating prior wrongdoing by our government. Absolutely. That's what you have to have in a system of law and order, Kristen.
But I have to reject the premise here. Joe Biden appointed the attorney general, Merrick Garland, who of course answers to Joe Biden, can be fired by Joe Biden. So the idea that the Biden administration has nothing to do with the appointment of special prosecutor I think completely betrayed understanding a misunderstanding of how our system of government actually works. And of course we have to make this point, Kristen, that the prosecution of Donald Trump in New York, which I think now is fundamentally been thrown in doubt by this Muni case.
It was one of the main guys was a Department of justice official in the Biden administration who jumped shit to join a local prosecutor's office to go after Donald Trump. Yet the doj, that's a problem that happens all the time. People are appointed from Washington. The DOJ told Congress testified this week.
Are you really saying. Kristen, hold on, let me just finish this. The DOJ told Congress this week it reviewed all communications and spied to office and found no contact between federal prosecutors and those involved with that case in New York. Can you stick to the substance of the question though?
Let me just ask because you are, I just want to stick with this line of theory that you are laying out, which is you are saying it's not okay for Joe Biden to weaponize the Justice Department. It's not okay for Biden to weaponize the Justice Department. As you say, there's no evidence of that. Why is it okay for Donald Trump to do that?
Well, Kristen, first of all, you said it happens all the time. The number three person in the Department of Justice jumps ship to join a local prosecutor's office to go after the president's political opponent. I think that's ever happened in the history of American democracy. And I don't think we should legitimize it.
Now. If Donald Trump's attorney general had his number two or his number three jump ship to a local prosecutor's office in Ohio or Wisconsin and that person then went after Donald Trump's political opposition, that's a different conversation. All he's suggesting is that we should investigate credible arguments of wrongdoing. That's all that Donald Trump is saying.
That is not a threat to democracy. That's merely reinforcing our system of law and government. Bottom line, you are okay with Donald Trump appointing a special prosecutor to go after his political enemies, which would include Joe Biden. You're just to button that up.
It sounds like you're saying yes. Let me move on though, to my next question. I want to talk about the Heritage Foundation. It's a conservative think take in Washington.
It shapes the agenda they would like to see in a Trump second term. The president said this after the Supreme Court's Ruling this week. Take a look. We're in the process of taking this country back.
No one in the audience should be despairing. No one should be discouraged. We'll be really encouraged by what happened yesterday. We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.
Do you support those calls for a revolution? And would political violence ever be justified? Well, of course, political violence is never justified, Chris. And you have to ask the president of the Heritage foundation to defend his remarks.
If you'd like to do that. I will say, look, the Heritage foundation does a lot of good work. It does a lot of things I disagree with, a lot of things I agree with. But the Heritage foundation is a nonprofit organization that works on public policy, and I think it's an important part of how DC Functions and operates.
We'll continue to have important conversations in the Republican Party with a whole host of think tanks from the right and from the left as we craft public policy. That's the way the city works. And again, I'm not going to be the person who serves the spokesperson for the Heritage Foundation. I don't have any affiliation.
Sounds like you're distancing yourself from those comments that talk of political violence. Look, Chris, I certainly don't think political violence is justified. That's certainly actually not what I think that kind of Robertson's saying to begin with. But again, have him, have him on your program to defend what he said.
And I think that's the best thing to do. Let me ask you specifically about Project 2025 for our viewers so that they know it's basically a policy blueprint for a second Trump presidency. It's supported by the Heritage foundation and other conservative groups. The Biden campaign has a Project 25 quote, should scare every single American.
It would give Trump limitless power over our daily lives. Among the things they are calling for is reversing approval of the abortion pillman for Christian. But Donald Trump says he supports access to that pill. Actually, do you support access to abortion medication as Donald Trump does?
Well, Christopher, you asked about Project 2025. I want to be clear here that Trump explicitly has said his own transition team runs the Trump transition and will run the Trump administration again. You have a whole host of organizations, some of which have good ideas, some of which have bad ideas, and some of which have both. And I'm sure the Trump administration will talk to a lot of people as it's crafting an agenda to bring back American manufacturing jobs, to lower inflation and to bring peace and prosperity back to the world.
That's the whole reason why me and so many others are trying to re like Donald Trump is because the agenda actually worked. It was his agenda and I think it'll work again for the American people. On the question of the abortion, what so many of us have said is that, look, we certainly don't. The Supreme Court made a decision saying that the American people should have access to that medication.
Donald Trump has supported that opinion. I support that opinion. I think it's important to say that we actually have to have an important conversation in this country about what our abortion policy should be. Donald Trump is the pragmatic leader here.
He's saying most abortion policy is going to be decided by the states. We want to make it easier and more affordable for young women and parents to have families to begin with. We want to lower housing costs, eliminate the surprise medical bills that so many families see how to have a baby. That's the Trump and Republican approach to this issue.
Meanwhile, Joe Biden wants taxpayer fund abortion up to the moment of birth. It's so crazy to me how Democrats frame this as Republicans. They frame Democrats as being reasonable and pragmatic when in reality Republicans are the ones trying to find some common ground. As you know, abortions, very few abortions take place later in pregnancy and almost always because there is a medical emergency.
I know Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025, but we have to point out that a number of people who are involved with it are former Trump officials, Ben Carson, Peter Navarro, Ross Vaught and others. But just to be clear, you support Mitchell, Kristen being accessible? Yes, Krista, I do. But again, on the Project 2025 issue, what the media and Democrats are trying to do is attach its most unpopular elements to the Trump administration.
It's a 900 page document. I guarantee there are things that Trump likes and dislikes about that 900 page document, but he is the person who will determine the agenda of the next administration. All he said very explicitly is I'm in charge of the next administration because I'm the person running for president. It's just important to make that clarific.
Let me ask you something that caught our eye. This is something you wrote in the New York Times op ed in 2017 about former President Barack Obama. You criticized his policies, but you also said, quote, it is one of the great failures of recent political history. The Republican Party was too often unable to disconnect legitimate political disagreements from the fact that the president himself is an admirable man for at A pivotal time in my life.
Barack Obama gave me hope that a boy who grew up like me could still achieve the most important of my dreams. For that, you write, I will miss him and the example he set. You wrote that just days before Donald Trump was inaugurated. Do you still consider Barack Obama to be an admirable man who you miss?
Well, you know, I grew up in a broken family, Kristen. I just want to be a good husband and dad. And certainly Barack Obama is quite my big political disagreements with him. He's clearly a good husband and father.
By the way, I said the same thing about Donald Trump, whose children love him. And I think this is one of the things the media often misses about Trump is how genuinely devoted he is to his family, to his grandchildren, and how part of his pro life messaging, his fundamental pro life view, is that we want to make it easier for American families to have those thriving children and thriving families. So certainly, I think we've been blessed with a lot of examples across our country. And yeah, absolutely.
It was bracket on the president. No. Was he good husband, father? Yes.
So he's still an admirable man. That's just what I said, Kristen. All right, Lenny, I have to ask you about beepstakes, of course. Have you gotten the call from Donald Trump?
Has he asked you to be his running mate? I've not gotten the call, Kristen, and I'll certainly, maybe not the first person that I'd let know if it happened. But we'll let the media know if I ever get that call. But most importantly, Kristen, we're just trying to work to like Donald Trump, whoever's vice president is.
He's got a lot of good people he could choose from. It's the policies that worked and the leadership style that work for the American people. I think we have to bring that back to the White House, and I'm fighting to try to do that. Well, here we are about a week before the Republican Convention.
Before I let you go, can you say unequivocally, unequivocally here and now that you will accept the results of the 2024 election, no matter what they are, so long as it's a free and fair election? Christian, of course we will. We will use constitutional processes to challenge issues if we think they're issues. But if it's a free and fair election, we will do what the Constitution requires.
We will respect the results. And I expect those results are going to be to reelect Donald Trump. It was a free and fair election. In 2020, Donald Trump took his concerns to court.
He lost in court, but he still has not conceded. Do you understand that when you refuse to commit unequivocally, that feeds into people's concerns, skepticism about the nation's electoral process? Well, Chris, I don't agree with that, actually. I think that feeding into people's concerns about our electoral process is that one half of America's political segment, they won't support legislation that makes it harder for legal aliens to vote.
They won't support universal VOT in our elections, even though you have to present ID to do almost anything in this country. I think taking people's concerns seriously about election fraud is the way to reinforce security and confidence in our elections. Yes, an authority against the law for non citizens to vote. But just on that very point, when you, when others refuse to say, yes, we will accept the election results, do you understand how that undermines people's confidence in the electoral system?
But Chris, what I just said is I don't agree with that. What I think actually undermines people's confidence in the electoral systems when the media is incurious about obvious examples of problems in our electoral system. I think we've got great elections, but a lot of things could be better in certain states. I want to work to make that happen so the American people have greater confidence in their elections.
That's what I'll keep doing. Senator, thank you for being here. Please come back when you get that phone call, if not beforehand. Really appreciate it.
Thank you so much. When we come back, President Biden is dismissing his critics and vowing to stay in the race even as more pressure grows for him to drop out. The panel is next. Welcome back to panelists here, NBC News White House correspondent Mike Memaly, Amy Walter, editor in chief of the Cook Political Report, former Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy of Florida and Matt Gorman, former senior communications adviser for Tim Scott for America.
Thank you all for being here. On what is a sensibly still holocaust, we have no holiday for us. Mike, I have to start with you. Take us inside Bidenworld because you heard from Congressman Adam Schiff.
There's still a lot of skepticism about his ability to be Trump. And he's really trying to turn the page and quiet the skeptics. Kristen, I covered that rally in Wisconsin on Friday as I did the week before in North Carolina. We all watched that interview with George Stephanopoulos.
The tone being set by President Biden and others in his inner circle is one of defiance. They are almost challenging the Democratic Party to take this nomination away from. I share with One senior advisor, those news making comments, I thought from Congressman Schiff about the president and they said this is not going to be decided by members of Congress, this is going to be decided by the voters. They really are framing this.
We're going to hear a lot more than we get about the voters versus the pundits, voters versus the media, voters versus the establishment. This is Joe Biden, 50 year politician establishment of the Democratic Party if there ever was one, who is now running as an insurgent against his party. He's the one dose of reality I've gotten is he's 100% in until he's 100% out. He has to be defined until the moment he writes that.
Such a great way to frame it because he has been such a part of the Democratic establishment for so long. Amy Walter, take us inside the number, give us the reality check. Because just to remind folks, at the top of the show, I laid out the fact that there has been erosion in the polling and yet there is one poll that shows the battlegrounds are still closed. Where are we right now in this race?
Well, Chris, you know, I love me some polls, I love digging into data, but I want to step away from it because I think we really talk about the fundamentals because sometimes I think we get caught up in the numbers. And the fundamentals today aren't any different than they were before this debate. And this is. These are two unpopular people running against each other.
The candidate who is in the spotlight, whose liabilities and flaws are in the spotlight, is a candidate who's most likely to lose. Joe Biden went into that debate with the spotlight on him. He wanted that debate to turn the spotlight back onto Donald Trump. Not only did he fail on doing that, but now the spotlight isn't just on his weaknesses as a president in terms of his policies.
It's not just about inflation or immigration. Now it's about whether he can functionally do the job and whether he has the physical and cognitive ability to do that. And that is a very different fundamental that we've added to this fundamental problem for both candidates in this race. And the one other thing I'll say, the challenge of getting beyond this question, because it's not just earlier it was about can you get beyond the frustration about the economy or about the border Right now, it is about him personally.
And when I see where the media is going to be for the next four months, it is going to be focused on every speech, every interview, any slip he makes is going to be highlighted and talked about. Absolutely. And Stephen, Amy hits the nail on the head with the level of concern I think, that Democrats have in this moment. Take us inside some of your conversations.
What is the reality check there? How concerned are lawmakers about down ballot races? They are far more concerned privately than they have said publicly at all. Panic at this point.
But, you know, if you look at it, and if the Biden administration says it's up to the voters, well, three quarters of the voters in a very divided America agree on one thing, and it's that he doesn't have the mental attitude to go forward. And the Democratic caucus agrees that Trump 2.0 would be dangerous for democracy. And now they're also looking at the potential that they're going to be significant headwinds for a down ballot. And if we can't hold the House or the Senate with the Supreme Court rulings that expand the president's powers, this puts democracy in a really precarious place.
And if you believe that, then it's reasonable for you to ask the president to really consider whether or not he is the best candidate and to really consider the consequences of staying at the top of the ticket on the down ballot. Racist. That's really the disconnect, because President Biden, his campaign, have argued Donald Trump's a threat to the democracy every single day. And if those are the stakes, can they risk this?
I have to go to you because there is just growing pressure also for Republicans as they watch this unfold. Donald Trump had this post yesterday where he seemed to sarcastically say, Joe Biden should stay in the race. Is he worried? Are Republicans worried about what happens if Joe Biden gets out?
If all of a sudden there's an infusion of excitement? I mean, look, if Joe Biden takes this race to Amy's point, this race becomes about him entirely, his fitness for office, bar none. If it's Kamala, I don't think there'll be anyone other than Kamala. Then this becomes much of the race we thought we're gonna run two weeks ago.
You know, it's the economy, immigration, crime, and she owns all of it. And I will also say this, one of the first questions she will have to answer is, what did you know about Joe Biden's condition? When did you know it? A lot of these stories coming out say that, you know, there's been some issues for about a year now, if not more.
You're the one person in the government he can't fire. You need to tell you didn't see anything about it. She's got the first Thing she says we should know. Yeah, crime is one of the top issues for voters.
It's also a 50 year low right now. Mike, pick up on that point. I mean are there contingencies? What are the conversations happening around the vice president?
Well, we have seen Vice President Harris have a much bigger role in the administration and in the campaign since the president announced he was running for re election. We've seen that times 10 just in the past week. They have been very deliberate. They've been very intentional about having the vice president physically with the president in some cases, but also speaking out, very supportive.
You also have top advisors in the campaign who've been telling donors putting forward these what I was told were West Wing tight scenarios of how shalom comes on the ticket or something. The most likely scenario, the cleanest scenario, except there is one, is it's going to be the vice president. And there are a lot of Democrats who really like the idea of a Harris Cooper ticket. Gunner Cooper of North Carolina, two term governor, 16 year attorney general's, two prosecutors who have three point crimes of issue, who can make the arrest of the campaign about procrastinating the case.
It kind of struck me Adam Schiff said yes, he thought the vice president could have been overwhelmingly. Look, I absolutely agree with that. She comes with the same liabilities in some ways that Biden does, which she's had to answer for the administration and all the issues that people are frustrated about about the economy and immigration. The question is can she now as because she doesn't have the same challenges that the president does, change the conversation back to Donald Trump?
Can she make this race about Donald Trump? Can she put together not necessarily the pro Harris coalition but that anti Trump coalition that has been successful not just in 2020 but in 2018 and 2022. Now who's the candidate Republicans are most afraid of? I mean it's a different race whether it's Biden or terrorist.
I mean I think we look back and Republicans remember the kind of disastrous campaign she had enterprise primarily every day there was a new and new position of marijuana. She hasn't proven to be an effective communicator on complex issues on a lot of different things. And look, she certainly would help the Democrats on Roe, but she owns the border lock stock and barrel. One of the things I keep thinking about when I think about the vice presidential running is Donald Trump back in 2020 saying she had the best announcement.
What do you make potentially? Do you think she could win overwhelmingly? I think she should have consideration, but we shouldn't repeat the mistake that got us to this place, which was not to have a real primary. Primaries are a way to road test your candidates.
And so if there's a way for us to have a real primary, it gives us, the Democratic Party an option and then it allows them to coalesce behind that person. Post convention political reporters have been talking for years about wanting to have a real political convention, a brokered convention. Then every year it gets pushed aside. This may be the one time where this actually happens, not necessarily brokered, but that this conversation, if it's starting, it can't start the day of the convent.
They have to start today. But the Dems get a chance to bring the attention to their great bench and to put forward what America wants, which is change. One last thought. I really am not underestimated until this point.
Joe Biden got this out. He could think Donald Trump's playbook, he's crazy. We could see it. We wait with faded breath to see how it all plays out.
Stick around, guys. When we come back, a Democratic president with low public approval ratings and a deeply divided country suddenly withdraws from the race. What his hand picked successor said in the summer of 1968 are we the President is next. Welcome back.
The rising Democratic pressure on President Biden to step aside has echoes of 1968. The last time a president decided not to seek a second term, that president was Lyndon Johnson. Weakened by the Vietnam War, Johnson had never formally entered the race and bowed out five months before the convention. He was replaced on the ticket by his vice President, Hubert Humphrey, who won the Democratic nomination but lost the general election.
Vice President Humphrey joined this broadcast the day before the start of the Democratic National Convention. President Johnson seems to believe that if he ran again, the country would remain divided and his move towards peace would be suspect. On view of your close identification with him and the administration, why do you think that what applied to him doesn't apply to you? Also because I have not been President.
This is not to be tracked from President Johnson for all. But he had to make the tough decisions in respect. It is President Johnson that has had to call the shock, so to speak, that has had to face up to the responsibilities of the management of our affairs. The Vice President of the United States does not do fair.
I knew when I became Vice President that we only had one president at a time, that I ought not to act like the President or should I try to pretend that I'm President. I hope that I can go to the country and I say I hope that I can Go to the country and to unify it as best as possible and to lead this country to good performance, to higher standards. I think I can. When we come back, Donald Trump claims victory after the historic Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity.
The panel returns next. Welcome back. The panel is still here. Let's talk about the big ruling in the Supreme Court, Stephanie, which basically gave presidents immunity over official actions that they take while in office.
You obviously served on the January 6th committee. Your committee recommended criminal charges against former President Trump. What was your reaction to the ruling, quite frankly? What are the implications, do you think of this ruling?
You know, the context for me is my family and I escaped political persecution when I was just a baby. So I know what a government that is unaccountable will do to its citizens. And I signed on the January 6 select committee and I saw how our institutions were tested. The ruling, the Supreme Court ruling basically gives the presidency expanded powers and makes accountability through the justice system very difficult.
So what that means is that one, we have to elect presidents with character and values and morals that align with this country. But we also have to in this particular election hold the line in the House. The House is now the last place that can hold a president accountable. And that makes this election critically important.
Matt, you know, for President, Trump is taking the victory lap obviously because it means his court cases will be delayed. But Democrats are pouncing on this. They are making the case. Look, this is why Donald Trump will be more dangerous in the second term.
That's Democrats argument. How do you think this plays out or factors in if at all? I keep coming back to the fact in the background of all this talk around Joe Biden is that Trump's had probably the best 10 days he's had since he was president. You the debate plunging, the Democratic Party crisis.
But this code is really fun. Chevron immunity. But also again, what that means, the sentencing that was always the albatross, the sentencing between now and the convention that's off the table for now at least the VP will be a positive newsmaker. And I think, you know, he has stayed out of the headlines this last week and let the Democrats self immolate.
Look, this I think in large part has been the best run campaign apparatus he's had in his three times he's run president. Amy? Yeah. What do you think?
There's no doubt about politically? Politically, I mean the discipline is actually quite remarkable. Right. They really were hoping that he would come and make a story so that the focus could get off the president.
I agree that this should have been a week where we started the roundtable with Case and instead we're ending it. Which tells you all you need to know about how difficult it is going to be for Democrats to make this case to the voters. Some of the most interesting comments the president made at the rally on Friday were about this. He said the President Trump really could be a dictator when he said we have to politically exile him because of this immunity ruling.
Talk about Project 2025 as well. The promise. They were overlooked because of where the focus is. This is what Democrats are saying at your earlier point.
The debate was supposed to put the spotlight back on Trump and it's only really on President Biden. Someone said to me that the immunity ruling is going to be the new jobs ruling. The Democrats are just going to continue to hammer it. Matt, we gotta talk a little.
Deep stakes, obviously. Just talk to Senator J.D. vance about a range of different topics, including this immunity issue. We know that he is on the short list.
We know this decision has to come soon. Senator Vance said no, he hasn't gotten that call from former President Trump yet. Where do you see this heading? I mean, Vance did a great job this morning.
He'd be a very formidable candidate. And, you know, one thing we haven't talked about is he has a military background. The only person out of four VPN and president nominees with military back. And if Biden is gonna make the case about Trump and veterans that he has in the debate.
And since Vance could be an effective rebel for that. And so someone who comes in these scenarios isn't afraid to do Sunday shows and he's able to message her. He's impressive. You know, Stephanie, it's interesting.
I mean, he's viewed as the future of the MAGA movement. I guess the question is, can he appeal to independents, to moderate voters, can he win? Those critical voters are gonna be necessary to ultimately win the White House. I thought he was very good on your interview with him.
He makes some of the more extreme policy positions that he is espousing seem normal because of the way he delivers it. And I think he fits apart for what Donald Trump looks for in a vice president. He looks apart. Do Democrats fear a Trump Vance ticket, do you think?
I think they are so focused on trying to figure out who your ticket is gonna be right now. That's a fair point. That's a fair point. Amy.
How do you say. I mean, I think that for Trump, so much of this is, as we talked about, the look, but also it's sort of softening Donald Trump or at the very least, somebody who can come in and look like they could keep him in line, not worrying about, you know, sort of going off track. And this is a person who could do that. That's where Dunberg, I think because of how low key he is, he seems just he's not getting in fights with anybody.
He is coming from a very different perspective in that way. Could be a better pick. All right, conventions one week away. Mike Miller, quickly, how long one word answer will take for president.
Biden makes a decision. This is a consequential week for him. His team knows that they've been giving him some tough advice that's coming from the outside. The question is, are they themselves hearing it?
All right, great conversation, you guys. Thank you so much. That is all for today. Happy July 4th weekend.
Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the us. Hey, everyone. I'm Dylan Dryer, co host of the third hour of Stay and mom to three wild boys.
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