This Sunday. The outsider North Dakota's Governor Doug Burke is outspending all of his Republican presidential rivals after entering the race just four weeks ago. I believe that the president has got a defined set of things they're supposed to work on. And it's not every culture we're talking.
Can this little known former software executive breakthrough and win over Republican primary voters? You're doing business with Donald Trump? I don't think so. Why?
I just think that it's important that you're judged by the company you keep. My exclusive interview from Fargo plus Biden's economy Biden is just another way of saying destroying the American dream. President Biden crafts his campaign economic message Bidenomics means you pay more for everything in life. I can't think of anything more un American than what we're seeing in Biden's economy.
Does Biden even need an economic message to win in 2024 or issues like abortion matter more Alex New Jersey SNAP credit counter Bill Murphy civilian risk the US plans to send cluster munitions to Ukraine despite concerns they could kill civilians. Why is a weapon that's banned by over 100 countries the best option now for Ukraine? It was a very difficult decision on my part. The Ukrainians are running out of ammunition.
And join me for insight and analysis on NBC News. Senior Capitol Hill correspondent Gary Hague. I'm in a vaz co anchor of PBS News Out Republican strategist Brendan Buck and former Democratic Senator Larry McCaskill. Welcome to Sunday.
It's Meet the Press from NBC News in Washington. The longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Khan. And a good Sunday morning to all of you out there.
With the Iowa caucuses just six months away, mark your calendars for January 15th. Officially. By the way, the two parties are debating what the coming campaign is going to be about the intensifying culture wars or referendum on the economy. President Biden is holding the claim credit for what is an improving economy.
He's ramping up a messaging tour focused on the economic agenda that he is embracing and calling Biden knocks Inflation has dropped for 11 straight months from a high of 9.1% in June last year to 4% this May. Unemployment stands at 3.6%. That is near a 50 year low. And 13 million jobs have been added since Biden took office.
Was completely recovered from the pandemic drop. But the American public is not feeling just 34% of Americans approve Biden's handling the economy in a recent AP poll that was released at the end of June and only 20% of voters believe the nation is on the right track. The voters have not felt good about the rest of the country for over a decade. And Biden is trying to persuade voters that the economy is better than they think it is.
Guess what? Bidenomics is working. I'm not here to declare victory on the economy. I'm here to say we have a plan that's turning things around quickly.
It's about growing the economy from the middle out and the bottom up. Today's job shows that I think jobs report I think shows that Bidenomics is working. Now this is actually a familiar pivot for incumbent Democratic presidents in the last 30 years. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama had to make the case that their economics economic policies were working to a skeptical public as they were buying for a second term.
And it's a necessary tip for the Biden campaign. But ultimately it could end up being that the cultural issues like abortion that Democrats end up rallying around, especially as the Republican Party continues to focus even more time on cultural issues. School bureaucrats do not know better than parents. We've got to go and defeat them from the ground up and let them know that we are not going to have this indoctrination in there.
We are going to end Men joining Women's teams identifying Donald Trump as really being a pioneer in injecting gender ideology into the mainstream where he was having men compete against women in his beauty pageants. And in fact Florida gunner Rod of Sansi who's trailing Donald Trump by 30 points in many national primary matchup continues to try to run to the right of Trump on these social issues like abortion and LGBTQ rights. In fact this week the Census rapid response team reposted a video on Twitter attacking Trump for formally expressing support for the LGBTQ community. The video was criticizing by Republicans and has since been taken down.
Now one Republican candidate who's already outspending all his rivals right now in advertising in Iowa, New Hampshire is betting that there is a lane for a Republican candidate that is solely focused on the economy and national security rather than on what he calls anti wokeness. On Friday I traveled to Fargo, North Dakota and I sat down with the governor of North Dakota, Doug Burg. He's a 66 year old former software exec and a two term governor. And yes he is self funding much as presidential campaign right now.
In April Burgum signed a law that did ban abortion six weeks and he has signed eight bills in the law that has been pushed by his very conservative legislature that limits the rights of transgender North Dakota codes. But at the same time, he is arguing that Republicans will do better in 2020 and 2024 if they focus solely on pocketbook issues. Kevin Bergen, welcome to the press. Chuck, great to be here.
And special gratitude from all of us in Barcode for you and your team traveling all the way far away. We love being here. So let me start Every write up of your candidacy and the focus that you put on your presidential on the issues you want to focus on, what you say is what the silent majority cares about. Every analyst seems to end their analysis of your campaign with this is a campaign that would make a lot more Sense in the 1990s or in the Mitt Romney era of the Republican Party, let's say you to that.
Well, first of all, I would describe them not as silent but exhausted. There's a broad spectrum of Americans that are really frustrated with the discourse that's happening at the edge. And part of the reason they're frustrated is because there aren't candidates, there aren't choices on the ballot to talk about the things that matter to them. And when first lady and I are in New Hampshire, in Iowa or here in North Dakota where we've been meeting the last six and a half years, the things people are concerned about, price of food on the table, price of gas at the pump, you know, and you wouldn't think that in North Dakota, may the national security be front of mind, whether it's, you know, Chinese spy balloon, whether it's the price of soybeans and tariffs or whether it's China building supply bases.
You know, these three things, the economy, energy policy and national security are the things that people really care about. And they touch every American. And they don't just touch Republicans, they touch independence, touch Democrats. If we can unleash the best of America, if we can get our economy shrinking instead of crawling, that lifts the boat for everybody.
We know that that's always been and when we are in a cold war in China, we just won't admit it. The way we work your way through Cold war is you win it economically. Your message makes a lot of sense in the middle of the electorate. But you're having one Republican nomination first and you have firsthand experience.
You have a legislature that is not focused on the issues you're focused on, but they're focused on these cultural issues that the primary electorate seeks to be focused on. So how do you, how do you talk the Republican primary voters into your position? Well, I think we know a little bit about winning Republican primaries Because we've won two here in North Dakota in a state that is primary state in mostly Republican primary contests other than New Hampshire, Independent Democratic New Hampshire is a very important state. So it is a, an opportunity here again for this exhausted majority to say, look, there's so many people in our country that don't want to rerun at the presidential race of what we had in 2020.
How do you explain Donald Trump's hold on? Well, I believe that there's a whole industry that talks incessantly non stop about these kinds of questions. And are you running to lead this party? And in order for you to become the leader of this party, you understand why the current leader has this hold on constituents that you want to leave?
What's your, what's your diagnosis here in North Dakota, people that voted for Donald Trump also voted for us. And so we know a lot about Donald Trump voters, but we also know that Republican primary voters, they want to win in 2024. And how we're going to win is we will present ourselves when we get to next January, next February, when the voting starts is that we have the best chance of beating Joe Biden. How much your character count when it comes to running for office?
It should count enormously, particularly when you're talking about the jobs of being a governor or being a president, because the executive branch, different from the other branches, but specifically legislative, you know, if you're a legislator, you put on your jersey, you fight for your side, you vote oftentimes long party lines, you, if you don't vote with party, you vote at your peril. The president of the United States, as this balancing third branch, is the one that's supposed to unite people, it's supposed to bring people together, supposed to paint a vision about a powerful, positive future. And somehow we've gone astray on that, where the presidency has also become hyper partisan, no matter which party is in office. You ever lied in politics?
No. You don't believe you'd ever lie? No. You'll be fact checked on that.
I'm sure you've always told the truth, that you understood it. Absolutely. That's how I was raised and that's how I've gone forward. Do you think Donald Trump's elevation to the presidency is proof that characters counter?
Well, I grew up in A town of 300 people, Arthur, North Dakota, in a town like that. And the business that my grandparents started was the grain elevator business. And the grain elevator business. Farmers bring you grain.
Every truck they bring, you take a sample. And in that sample, the way you take that sample, you can have is it going to be 99% wheat and tenders and 1% chaff or is it going to be 95% wheat and 5% chaff? Money in the pocket, every transaction. You build trust on every transaction.
When I was about six years old, my dad walked me up in the driveway of the elevator and he said, this is how we take the cleanest possible sample. This is how we get the highest amount of wheat and the least amount of chaff when we take that sample. Because if we don't, this family is going to hold their grain six miles down the road. Is the other community business with altru?
I don't think so. Why I would. I just think that it's important that you're judged by the company you keep. And I use what do business with.
No, I wouldn't feel like you've signed a lot of bills that your legislatures put on your desk that you're not, you're not crazy about, but you've signed them anyway because you made the argument they can override my veto. And some things you do choose to stand up and veto. And I guess I'm trying to figure out and we'll get into some details, what's your line of when you decide, well, I'm going to issue this veto. They're going to override me.
But I want to make a statement versus I don't like this bill, they're going to override me. Something like that. Well, every governor has got to deal with the legislature. They're dealt with.
In North Dakota we've got legislature that's 90, 10, 90% Republican, 10%. The other party and some of the other party feel the same way the Republicans do. So it's a little bit like a unit party in North Dakota. Do you wish it were more politically diverse?
Well, I think that we want to make sure that all voices are heard. I think every state legislature has really slanted, you know, ours is like 80% then 20% women. I think you might have different outcomes across all state legislators if you had more women involved, if you had more youth age. I mean people say, hey, I'm young, I'm building family, I can't do it.
So the average age in North Dakota is 35. That's the average age in legislation North Coast, 50, 50 men and women. That's not our legislature. That's the same across the whole country.
So let's take, let's take abortion, a six week ban. A voter wants to know what your position is on Abortion. I understand the law. It doesn't sound like this is the law you would have designed, but it's the law you signed.
So what is your position on yours? Well, my position is that I support the Dobbs decision, that this decision should be left to the states. And what's going to pass in North Dakota is not ever going to pass in California, New York and what even pass in the state of Minnesota. That's why I'm on the record saying that I would not sign a federal abortion ban.
You would not sign any federal legislation at all whether it set the line at 24 weeks or six weeks? No, I wouldn't because it should be left for the states. Now I think people can say Republicans are extreme. I personally think that having a late term abortion, having an abortion one day before a child was born, I mean that's important to me.
Some states allow that. I think that's extreme. But states get to decide where they want to fit on that spectrum. The states created the federal government.
Where I'm at is I believe in states rights and I believe that the president states has got a defined set of things they're supposed to work on. And it's not every culture war topic. These are things that are left to say as president, things that you're supposed to focus on. Things like the economy, like energy policy which is completely tied to national security and international security is the border.
And these are things that the president right now President Biden is completely abdicated as responsibility on every state's become a border state. 110000 overdose deaths in this country last year again that's. And that's a statistic, but that's 330 a day. Let me ask you this.
You're a limited government guy but you're legislating science in this case, you comfortable with that? You're legislating when a doctor can get involved and when somebody can get a medical intervention on their own decision. Are you comfortable with the government setting those lines? Well, I'm comfortable with those battles happening at the state level because people don't like them.
They got an opportunity to get engaged and try to change that at the federal level. It's not anything I'd be pushing because I believe in freedom and liberty and I believe that if we believe that as a party then we have to think long and hard about if we believe in freedom and liberty, then why are we trying to restrict certain things? As a party we should be the freedom of liberty party. We should believe in the states rights party and you have to have consistency around it.
You're not going to sign any abortion bill, you're not going to sign any transgender bills. You're just not getting, you're going to stay out of every cultural issue. Anytime that when I was in private sector and I had a chance to start for the tiniest startup, less than 10 people build that into a 2000 person company, I then had an opportunity to work at large global companies. Anytime you're the CEO, if you're spending time on something that can be done, you know, in a, you know, sales office, you know, out on the front lines dealing with customers, you're not doing your job.
You gotta be looking the future. We need a president that's focused on the challenges that are being faced as a nation. Not, not that a president decide whether a book is in the right section or not in a library in a small town somewhere in America. That is the.
And that's part of what's going on. The reason why we got issues with our economy, with our energy policy, with national security, they're just raf is because we are somehow through culturally, media, whatever, trapping the presidency, are expecting them to weigh in on every, on every single thing. That's not, it's not the place that a CEO should be spending their time. It's definitely not the place where president should be spending their time.
A few. How would you select a Supreme Court nominating? Do you have any litmus tests? I have had incredible opportunity as governor to appoint judges somehow through the fate of baby boomers retiring.
I'm the 33rd governor of North Dakota. I just yesterday was working through the decision process for my 18th judge appointment, two of those at the North Coast Supreme Court, the other district judges. And we don't have litmus tests. We try to find the people that are most qualified to do the job.
And I think that again, if there is any kind of litmus test, are they going to follow the Constitution and follow the law and not legislate from the bench? Do you care what the federal society thinks of a nominee? Are you going to. Donald Trump outsourced all his Supreme Court nominees to the federal society if they didn't have their sample approval.
Is that important to you? Like I said, I've interviewed thousands and thousands of people in my life for jobs. I think that the process of selecting people for a job also depends on the team as well as the individual. And this is who wins the Super Bowl.
People who win the super bowl are people that have a right team on the field. If that opportunity comes forward. That's one of the biggest responsibilities of the president. But I think my track record of picking people of high character, high integrity, every company I've ever been involved with, I've been surrounded by people of exceptional talent, exceptional commitment, exceptional character.
I don't think that's going to change. Whether it's in the administration, whether it's cabinet leaders, or whether it's appointing federal judges at any level, that's not going to change. So one thing President Biden has done that he thinks, Well, I'm struggling there because again, as a governor, what I've seen in terms of the overreach the federal government is, my heart goes out. But I don't know whether you describe that to him initially.
I'm like, hey, you know, as president, spent time in software, and we had tremendous dependence on foreign manufacturers for chips. You know, the CHIPS act started out like a great idea. People said, you know, I say, hey, I never comment on a bill until it's on my desk and it's final form. And people said, wow, we're going to try to get on shoring for critical aspects of what we need for communications, for transportation, for military equipment.
That made a bunch of sense. Well, then you pile a bunch of ideology on top of that and say, well, yeah, you can get these dollars to help onshore here, but, you know, you got to use union. You've got to do this, you got to do that, and you pile your ideology on two more possib. Sheesh.
We talked about China a little bit. See, dictator. Absolutely. So you agree with President Binano.
He called a dictator and China got offended by this. How would you handle that? I call him a brutal dictator. I mean, I mean, it's.
I mean, look at, look at the rights record that they have. So that's a. Where do you put Vladimir Putin? I think he's running a large criminal organization.
And I think we're seeing the tip of that with the Wagner Group. I mean, this, like, we can't think of Russia today under Putin like a country. You said almost more as, like, not absolutely. The Wagner group was operating, you know, 65 shell companies all over the world.
They control gold mines in the Central African Republic. You know, when they're down helping out in Syria, you know, there's contracts where they took over 25% of the oil production in Syria. That's a large criminal organization. So in President Bergam administration, does Ukraine support change?
Well, we have to win the war in Ukraine, period. We have to do that. And it's unfortunate We've been in this spot, I've said many times before, we've announced we wouldn't be in the spot if we hadn't allowed our allies. And think about, think about all the Americans we talked earlier.
We both been in Normandy. Think about all the Americans that died fighting World War II. And then we adopted a policy where we're trying to shut down the US Energy policy, shut down the US Energy industry so that all of Western Europe can be dependent on Russia for their oil and gas. That's what allowed that, gave him quite the dotted line.
You think our shutting down our energy industry pushed Europe towards Russia? Absolutely. Absolutely. They were completely dependent on Russian oil and gas.
I mean, German manufacturing is off 25%. They made a choice to be dependent on that. Right. The idea that they had no choice, they made a choice.
Germany did they. Right. But we had up until 20, you know, until just recently, we still got the Jones Act. We have a bunch of red tape and regulation that's completely outdated.
If you care about the environment, you should want every drop of energy produced in the United States, which is cleaner, safer than anyone else. However, I have more questions, but I don't have more time. Thanks for your time, Chuck. Thank you for being here.
As you might expect, there's a lot more to that interview. You can see the entire unedited version of that interview with Thunder Doug Burger right [email protected] youm can either see it or listen to it. When we come back, President Biden makes his sales pitch on the economy. Is Bidenomics a winning message and strategy?
I'll ask New Jersey's Democratic governor Bill Murphy next. Welcome back. President Biden saddled by questions about his age and his ability to do the job. For another four years he has been sharpening his economic message and he's arguing that the economy is improving.
Voters just don't realize it as inflation remains high and vot voters disapprove of the president's performance in the economy. Mike campaign hopes say that this strong employment picture and focus on the middle class could break through with this voter pessimism about the direction of the country. Governor philippe, New Jersey he was for what's once considered a potential presidential candidate himself had Biden decided not to see a second term. Murphy forces now a member of the Biden Harris campaign national Advisory Board.
So there's no more talk of that. Governor Murphy, welcome back to press. Greetings from the Jersey short shot. Great to be with you.
I appreciate that. Let me start with this idea of Biden nomics. As you know, the public doesn't believe that this administration is doing well on the economy. Obviously you believe differently.
Why do you think voters don't buy into bidenomics yet? I think there's a lead lag factor here, Chuck. First of all, the facts speak for themselves. 13 million jobs created, I think unemployment below 4% for the longest stretch in 50 years.
It's a middle class mill out, bottom up approach. I look back at four years ago this summer. Even the great communicator himself, Ronald Reagan, was struggling to get the message through that the economy had already begun its recovery in the previous year. Ultimately, he went on to a landslide victory the next year.
I'm not sure it's going to be a landslide, but the facts are on the side of the President and his administration and I think eventually that seeps into the general sense of how the economy is. Do you think this pessimism though is driven by the fact that the most likely voters, the people that pay the most attention, you know, nearly 20% of our electorate, retirees. Right. Who are.
And so the cost of living increases impact them more than those that are currently working. Not to say this doesn't impact everybody, but in some ways a retiree is more sensitive to inflation, inflationary issues than somebody in the working world. And as you know, they're the most likely voter. How do you bridge that divide?
Yeah, that's. I think your premise is exactly right. In fact, we decided to budget with a massive property tax relief explicitly for seniors. Tomorrow I'm going to sign a bunch of bills capping prescription drug prices for seniors again.
But the facts, the facts, I think the Biden administration also speak to the, to the reality that inflation is here. There's no question. But the United States over the past year is the leading deflationary country in the developed world. So I would say help is on the way.
And there's an enormous focus, I know, by the President, his team, on seniors and affordability as there is here in Jersey. But as you know, it looks like this. The stubborn inflation numbers mean we're have more interest rate hikes. And before you were in public service, you were in the finance world.
You know what this means. A rise in interest rates is going to mean harder to get a car loan, harder to get out. That is not how you create the conditions to convince people the economy is coming. Yeah, I have to say I'm not sure that the Federal Reserve has much choice.
There's no question you raise interest rates another 25 or 50 basis points. There's short term pain, you're absolutely right, but that pain is very small as compared to if inflation is allowed to reemerge and stay with us for many years. Sadly, that's tough medicine. But we're coming out of a pandemic.
All of the extraordinary, unique realities associated with that, at a certain point, in that respect, you may have no choice. Let me ask you about where we're coming in the general election. If this is a referendum, you think you can, the Democrats can avoid this being a referendum on Joe Biden's presidency, or you think that's a good thing if it's a referendum on Joe Biden's presidency? Well, I certainly think it's a good thing if it's based on the track record, which is outstanding.
We've talked about the economy. I think that story only gets better. His foreign policy, particularly leading the coalition against this brutal war of aggression by Russia, has been a master class. Sadly, I think folks vote more, they vote less on that front, but it's a reality.
Those are two very powerful engines. And I think when the facts are on your side, I'd rather be playing that hand than a hand that doesn't have the facts on their side and make a lot of noise. Do you believe that Donald Trump presents the best contrast for Joe Biden's reelection, or are there other candidates that you think would be easier for Joe Biden to face? I don't know that I think this, Chuck.
I believe a strong economy and a powerful foreign policy hand, and the president has exhibited both. I think that's a winning hand no matter who they're up against. I'm not suggesting it's a runaway election like it was in 1984, but if you've got those two engines on your side, that, to me, is a winning hand no matter who you're up against. A couple of quick political stories on the Supreme Court.
Do you think it's time for Democrats to embrace this idea of changing how the court works, adding justices term limits, or do you try to. You try to deal with the system that you have rather than change the system? Yeah. As painful as this radical court has been taking away rights and freedoms, I'm in the camp that you, you play within the rules.
And I have to say that's a tough conclusion. Given the extremity of whether it's LGBTQ decisions, abortion, student loans, affirmative action, one, one gut punch after another, I think you still play within the rules. The largest ever transportation grant from the federal government is coming to the Tri State area, $7 billion for this second tunnel, the most trafficked area in the country. This was a new tunnel for trains that was on the books to start being built.
In 2009, the project began. Chris Christie, your predecessor killed it. Decided to say no to this is the, is this, is, is this decision reaffirm Governor Christie's decision at the time, or is this going to now cost New Jersey taxpayers more? Listen, the biggest policy mistake of the past 50 years in New Jersey was his decision to cancel the predecessor to this project.
This is a game changer, and this is overwhelmingly supported by federal money. The tunnels that exist were built in 1910. They've been damaged severely over the years. This is two new rail tunnels under the Hudson River.
It's a game changer for New Jersey commuters. But tragically, the project that was canceled by my predecessor would have been opened five years ago. So we're going to get it, but it's sadly later than it should have been. Is it possible?
Oh, definitely. Cost more money, but we had no choice. This is the most congested. This is.
20% of the American economy rides on these rails. And thousands of commuters from New Jersey go into New York every day. We have no choice. Donor film for the Democrat of New Jersey.
Appreciate you coming on and spending your Sunday morning with us. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chuck. The Supreme Court ruling banned affirmative action in college admissions late last month, reversed a precedent that had shaped academia for decades.
In my very first sit down with Donald TRUMP Back in 2015, I asked Mr. Trump for his take on this policy. His answer might surprise you. Take a listen.
Affirmative action, should we keep it? Yes or not? I'm fine with affirmative action. Should be expanded or should be limited.
Well, it should be. You know, you have to also go free market. You have to go capability. You have to do a lot of things.
But I'm fine with affirmative action. We lived with it for a long time. I've lived with it for a long time and I've had great relationships with lots of people. So I'm fine with it.
Should private companies be able to fire people because they're gay? Well, it's a big. It's a big discussion and I guess it's getting a lot of negative rulings right now, that whole thing. And I'm willing to go with what the courts are saying.
And that is. You don't think private company should go like that? I don't think it should be a reason. I don't think it should be a reason.
It's nearly eight years ago. When we come back, why Republicans are embracing the culture wars over the economy and the campaign train. I believe in states rights and I believe that the president of the United States has got a defined set of things they're supposed to work on. And it's not every culture war topic.
Welcome back panelists. Here I'm in the Oz going for PBS News Hour. Our NBC News senior Capitol horsebacker Hatch Brennan Buck, the former advisor of House speakers for Paul Ryan and John Boehner and former Democratic Senator Clarence Castle is here before two days begin for Pat Holmes. Let me start with you, Brendan Buck, because you heard what Gunner Burton said.
Now let me play this exchange between Donald Trump and Ron Sanctus Desantis, as I call him, the abbreviation is a globalist sellout in Paul Ryan and Karl Rove acolyte who's in the pocket of Wall street donors at the Club for no Growth. Donald Trump has spent over 20 million attacking me. That's more than he spent supporting Republican candidates in last year's midterm elections. So Doug Bergam's message just feels like is that a fish out of water messaging compared to what DeSantis and Trump decided to do?
Well, I guess DeSantis answer there was a bit of most Washington answer I've ever heard talking about fundraising and attacks. But in the bigger picture, yes, Trump and DeSantis are fighting the culture war and I think that's what Republican voters want right now. I talked to a lot of Republicans who like how we break out of this cycle, what we we need to put out a 10 point plan, remind people what we're for. And that's really answering the question that nobody's asking.
Republican voters don't care about your policy right now. They want to know that you're fighter. They want to know you're fighting for them. They want to know that you see the world, the threat that they see coming from Washington.
And you're going to stand with here. You know, your first job for us here AMC was covered at rom. That's right. And I felt like I was talking to his younger brother there a little bit.
He even has a little salt and pepper too. He could be a six Rami son. Exactly. And I don't say that as a criticism, you know, but even that Rami realized a business only approach wasn't that work and he awkwardly tried to embrace social relationships.
Yeah. He got through too late. And that was a big debate within his campaign of how much he should just be the economic Mr. Fix it, how much he should engage on these other issues.
I think Brendan kind of touched on, to me, is the key issue here. It's not culture wars. The operative word here is wars, Right? It's the fight.
And this has been Donald Trump's superpower all along, I think in this primary is that he has. He has cultivated the right enemies. He can fight the Biden doj, he can fight the left. He can kind of pick the enemy of the moment and make it all about how they are going after him.
The scientist tries to do that. Even that clip you play, the idea that Trump is the enemy, that's not going to work. Trump has spent the last eight years in the public eye cultivating all the correct enemies for Republican primary voters. I think that's the reason he's got the leading has.
How nervous would you be if somebody like Doug Burgum suddenly ended up with a Republican nomination for Republican primary? Voters said, whoa, let's go with somebody who's gonna do that. Well, you know, would he be a stronger candidate than Trump? Candidly, he probably would.
Because what Trump and Desantis haven't figured out is they have to win a general. Neither one of those people are growing the number of voters they need to win. It's just the opposite. Their sliver is shrinking.
And the culture wars, I gotta tell you, this time around, bring it. Because I think the Democrats want to talk about abortion and they want to talk about guns. I was just going to say, yes, they did the messaging, but this felt. I'm a claire here.
I don't think they're going to run a binomics. I think they're going to say it. I think they're going to do it to appease Bernie Sanders, to ship on the economy. But I think they're going to run abortion.
By the way, I think the economy is a huge part of their message. They need something that tries to capture all the many things that they've done, including the Infrastructure act and the Inflation Reduction act and the CHIPS act, all those things, trying to get it all under one big umbrella. And the White House officials will tell you it's not that it has to be all the way fixed by the time people are voting. They just want it to be trending better.
They think that is definitely a strong message that voters will be voting on. But absolutely, you're going to see Vice President Harris out much more talking about issues like abortion rights, talking about voting rights, talking about those issues that we know they've been messaging on more cultural, social things. That's going to Be just a bigger message for that. Yeah.
How would you be handling the economic messaging here? Because voters don't believe it. What would you be telling people? I think that fundamentally, voters do understand that we have very, very low unemployment.
They see it in their families that everybody has jobs, everybody can get jobs. Their jobs are paying slightly better. If I were them, I would not try to sell the whole economic picture. I would just talk about what politicians always talk about.
Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. And with the infrastructure bill, they can do the same thing. Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. So jobs, guns and abortion.
All right, I want to put it back to the Republican race because we have. This is like the umpteen. We're saying, is Ron DeSantis losing? Wall Street Journal called it stalling while Ron DeSantis is acknowledging that he's struggling.
But listen, you talked about Washington. Answer before. Listen to this answer on rationalizing what's going on with this campaign. Well, I think if you look at the people like the corporate media, who are they going after?
Who do they not want to be the nominee? They're going after me, who's the president of Mexico attacking because he knows we'll be strong on the border and hold him accountable in the cartels, he's going after me. So I think if you look at all these people that are responsible for a lot of the ills in our society, they're targeting me as the person they don't want to see as the candidate. This feels like I attempted to do what Donald Trump does a lot better than he does, is be the martyr.
Yeah. I've always agreed with what Garrett said about me. And he said Ron Sensas has made a lot of enemies and he's very good at getting people on the left to dislike. He used to be the best person around to pick a fight.
He knew how to pick a fight. But some people, when you run for president, you need more than that, and you need people to connect with people. And I think this is what's missing with Ron Santinis. I think you've seen it in your past years left comparison to Scott Walker and Jeff Bush.
And I think one of the big problems with them is they were a little dull. And I think what we're seeing is Ron DeSantis gets out here, people are seeing him more and more. He doesn't make people feel anything. What if you care about Donald Trump, he makes you feel something.
Ron DeSantinas seems to lack that. You know, Garrett, I saw that Lenykin made sure that he has checked the boxes and National Guard trips to the border. I think it's sort of a perfunctory thing. You want to be the Republican.
There's a reason that the Brian Camp and Glenn Young Congress don't go away. It's due to DeSantis performance. He's not right. There's a significant element of the Republican electorate and the Republican donor class who desperately wanted to be someone to give a credible challenge to Donald Trump.
And the theory was that was always going to be Ron DeSantis. And if not him, who is it somebody who's already in this field, or does the field expand yet again now? It's getting awfully late in the year for something like that to happen. But every, you know, every bad DeSantis poll story, every awkward DeSantis clip on television opens that door a little bit wider for someone else in this theoretical field to say, why not me?
If I quickly Ana, you heard Phil Murphy's answer about the Supreme Court. As much as he wishes things were different, he doesn't want change to go through Supreme Court reform. I don't think Biden does either. But his party on pressure.
He may get the pressure from Nasher from the left wing, but that conversation is not going to go away. It's never going to go away. Right. The economy is a big message right now, so they have a good message to deliver.
Right. Unemployment is low. Inflation is coming down so uncomfortably high. The risk for them, though, is if things get worse, this has to be something that continues to get better for the next year and the Fed's going to keep tightening and we still don't have enough workers and that both it contributes to inflation.
Up next, the spring court's rulings on affirmative action and student debt may change who gets a college degree. And there are still some serious debts when it comes to higher education. Data Downloads welcome back. Data Download Time the Supreme Court's decision to strike down affirmative actions pave the way for a potentially dramatic change in who gets into college and where they go.
This is important because these sharp racial and ethnic divides remain around who has a background degree in the United States. And those differences have very real impact on a person's employment and earnings for the rest of their lives. Over the last 40 plus years, a number of Americans who get Baptist history has grown across the board, but the differences across racial and ethnic groups is staggering. Let me show you.
We're starting with Asian Americans here. In 1980, 32, nearly 33% of Asian Americans had a passenger degree or higher. That number is close to 56% today among the white population. 1980 it was under 20%.
Today it's just under 40%. Nearly a doubling. A little more than doubling, if you will. Then you look at black Americans, it was below 10% in 1980.
It is now near 25% in 2021. Hispanic Americans, again, just below black Americans in 1980. And here, just under 20%. So you can see these disparities exist quite a bit.
Now. Take a look at it when it comes to earning potential for folks that have a bachelor's degree month ages 25 to 34 years, your average salaries and for every bit of education you don't get, is every bit of salary you don't get. As you can see, an associate's degree less, high school diploma less and so forth. And then you look at it when it comes to employment.
Look at the employment rate over the last, over the summer. You have a bachelor's degree, you're at 2% of those with a bachelor's degree unemployed. You look at those folks with some colleges, 3%. You have less than high school diploma, you're at 6% unemployed.
So it has a huge impact on your ability to get a job. And then there's the college debt issue. Take a look at who has college debt in America. Those holding the most among those under the age of 35, black women over $11,000.
Then it's white women, then black men, then white men and Hispanic men and Hispanic. But the point is, both of these rules could have a huge impact on the lack of diversity in colleges and universities over the next generation and in the next 10 years. Could be fascinating to see how these numbers have changed. When we come back.
They are weapons banned by over 100 countries. So why did President Biden decide to send them to Ukraine even if it means an increased risk to civilians? Welcome back. President Biden did something that has a lot of anti war activists upset.
Frankly, has a lot of folks around the world upset. The decision to send over cluster munitions to the Ukrainians personally. Play President Biden's rationale for why he went ahead and agreed to do something that 100 countries have banned the use of ammunition. 100 countries have banned the use of ticklish explanation.
This is a war relating to munitions and they're running out of that ammunition and we're low on it. And so what I finally did took the recommendation of the Defense Department. You know, he's actually giving voice to something that's been a running issuance that's been on for about the last three months. Which is the stockpiles are running down around the entire west.
They are and it's dangerous because they are going through that ammunition faster than the US and the alliance can be supplied. It's a real problem. But they have called a must win war. Let's be clear about what these cluster munitions are though, right?
They basically spread a series of so called bomblets over a huge area. Many of them do not detonate upon impact and then pose a severe potential. Exactly. And we know this has happened.
There's been thousands of civilian deaths across the world or maintaining across the world as a result of these. The US themselves stopped using them back in 2003 by and large, by the way. So this speaks to both the desperation that we're facing on the front in Ukraine. Also this particular moment in time recounts the defensive is not going as well as they would like it to.
Military folks I talk to say this could change the direction of the war and they're already using these so why not give Ukraine everything they want? And they did request these. But even some more military folks I talked to said look, there's going to be a long and dangerous cleanup after this war. We will deal with this after the fact.
A few Democrats spoke out. Senator is uncomfortable with this. Is this somehow going to impact support for the war? I doubt it.
I mean the coalition of people in Congress and nationally inclusive people believe the polling is still strongly in favor of giving Ukrainians what they need here. I think to the degree this becomes a political issue becomes another example of the Biden White House having been kind of dragged towards giving Ukrainians what they said they needed, whether it was tanks or jets or Himars. You know, there's been this very element like we will give you what you want only after you really, really beg us for it. That could have a political impact.
But I don't think the progressive opposition to giving Ukrainians dangerous weapons they're going to use on their own lands, you know, to defend their own territory, is going to broadly change the direction of political behavior. Clarem convinced the next 15 years there'll be more books written about Biden and NATO than Biden into anything in domestic policy. Just because we judge our presidency by their foreign policy yet it's unlikely that success in the war accrues with benefit. But any mistake could become a problem.
Well, yeah, and he has shown tremendous strength in terms of unifying NATO and he will go over to NATO and he will talk to all of them and he will use his foreign policy chops and his policy skills. Which are really impressive and he will smooth this over about these weapons. And I think one thing we have to remember about these weapons. First, the Democratic Armed Services Committee embraced this.
So this is not going to be a huge citizen in the party. And second, they're asking to use them in their own country. They're not going to use them in another country. So this is not that you're going to punish innocent civilians you're at war against.
This is Ukraine deciding it is worth the risk to hold belong to our country to use these munitions to save our country. And Brennan Republicans would have on the House at least the more hawkish ones had they not Senate would have said oh, wokeness is somehow hitting the military decisions in a war. Yeah. I think the other important thing we have to keep in mind is it's not clear that there's going to be support from Congress to continue funding this war forever.
And obviously Ukraine's success in here relies in large part of the United States footing a lot of the bill. And we've already started seeing our Republicans question whether I think there will be more money to come. But it's not forever. And I think Joe Biden is looking at this and realizing we need to win this war quickly before we go down.
Support back home before I close morning down Garrett had pretty tough peace on Joe Biden's. It was about sort of the Biden family isn't acknowledging all of honor. Biden's children, seven grandkids, Mr. President, not six.
I think we all understand the personal challenge and concern and all these things that the, that the president has here. But his political foes see this and they're trying to exploit. I mean, there's no doubt every day this ancestor or Trump tries to use Hunter to beat up Biden. How's that world handling it?
Look, I don't think anybody envies the position that the president and his family are in on this issue because his family and Hunter specifically have become his primary political liability in a lot of ways. I mean, look at the cocaine story from the last week and how many Republicans have tried to seize on that issue. It's really kind of ugly. It's been done.
It's kind of. It's certainly kind of a tacky play here. I mean, look, this is as complex as it gets. You know, I'll get all this.
Your parents. Right. The idea of trying to balance your family's needs versus your political imperative is just ugly and unpleasant politics as we're going to get and we're going to get way down in it. I was just going to say this is only the beginning.
All right, I got run. That's all we have today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's me.
I'm Craig. No. Cheers. Cheers.
Cheers. I've always been a glass half full kind of guy, and now I'm talking to people who look at the world that way, too. It's really fascinating. Folks who share their defining moments, their trials, challenges, their stories are funny.
And I can. So I hope you'll join me each week. Who knows, you might just come away with your own glass half full. Search Glass Apple with Craig Melbourne From Today on YouTube and wherever you get a podcast.