This Sunday, presidential showdown, President Biden and former President Trump are set to face off in the first debate of the 2024 campaign. I'm not interested in playing politics with border immigration. I'm interested in fiction. When I'm reelected, Joe Biden's illegal amnesty plan will be ripped up and thrown out on the very first day.
Will this high-stakes debate shake up the race? My guest this morning, Biden campaign co-chair Mitch Landrum and Republican Governor Kristi Noem of South Dakota, plus running mates. Donald Trump narrows his choices for his vice presidential pick. There's never been a better politician, a better debater, a better communicator.
I feel very comfortable with the fact that I can do the job. Who will make the final cut? And team of rivals, Vladimir Putin, makes a rare visit to North Korea, not a mutual defense path, as he seeks more ammunition for the war in Ukraine. How will the West confront this new escalating threat?
Joining me for insight and analysis are the Wall Street Journal, senior political correspondent, Molly Ball, Greg Bluesteen, senior political reporter for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbello, and Simone Sanders Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press. From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristin Welker.
Good Sunday morning, I'm Peter Alexander, and for Kristin Welker. It has been more than 1,300 days since the last debate between President Biden and former President Trump. The last time either man appeared on a debate stage. In four days, they will face off again in the earliest general election debate in history, and what may be the most consequential face-to-face in decades.
The two candidates and their allies have signaled that they will attempt to portray each other in the most negative light possible, casting Mr. Trump as an unhinged felon, and President Biden as not physically or mentally equipped to serve another term. Crooked Joe's gone to a lot, Gavin, to study, prepare. No, he's sleeping now, because they want to get him good and strong.
So a little before debate time, he gets a shot in the ass. I think he said her off the wall, I want to be a dictator on day one. I want to move in a direction where he talks about, you know, suspending the Constitution. I'll have to see what he says.
Remind people what he says and what I believe and what he believes. The stakes are high. More than 73 million people tuned into the first Biden-Trump debate in 2020, and President Biden is spending the weekend at Camp David, hunkering down in formal debate prep. The President's personal lawyer, Bob Bauer, is playing the role of Mr.
Trump reprising his role from 2020. Mr. Trump was on the campaign trail on Saturday, a say that he's going to spend time this week meeting privately with advisors in his Florida state as part of a more informal debate prep process. President Biden closed door fundraisers and on the trail has previewed what will be one of his key debate messages that Mr.
Trump is now a greater threat to the country than during his time in office. The threat that Trump poses greater in his second term than his first is clear than when he lost in 2020, something literally snapped in his car. Now he's running again and is clearly unhinged. Trump allies are pushing the former president to focus on President Biden's record and some of his own plans, instead of venting about the legal cases against him and repeating false claims of election fraud.
President Biden's team expects aggressive attacks on the president's record on immigration and the economy in particular. Tomorrow marks the two-year anniversary of the Supreme Court's doves decision that overturned Roe v. Wade, and both the president and vice president, are making the fight to protect reproductive rights central to their campaign. I think that the debate is going to make clear the contrast between our president, the current president, who works on behalf of the American people, fights with the American people, and the former president who pretty much spends full-time fighting for himself.
Mr. Trump's vice presidential shortlist has gotten even shorter in interviews with NBC News, where the dozen sources wired into the process, tell us that North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum and Ohio Senator J.D. Vance are now emerging as the top finalists, Florida Senator Marco Rubio, remains in contention, but those sources say there are doubts about Rubio's enthusiasm for the job. Both Burgum and Vance were asked this week whether they want to be VP.
When he makes that decision, it's solely up to him and he's the guy that controls the criteria. There's never been a better politician, a better debater, a better communicator. I think that's ultimately, that's Donald Trump's choice, whether he selects me as vice president. So I feel very comfortable with the fact that I could do the job.
But look, you have to have some humility going into this too. And on Saturday, NBC News asked Mr. Trump whether his vice presidential pick will come to Thursday's debate. Most likely, yeah.
I didn't hear about president. In my mind, yeah. They know. Nobody knows.
And joining me now is Mitch Landrieu, national co-chair for president Biden's campaign. Mr. Landrieu, welcome back to Meet the Press. Hey, nice to see you.
Thanks for having me. Let me get started. President Biden asked for this debate in June, the earliest general election debate in history. Aids privately tell me that the campaign was looking for an opportunity to shake up a race that has largely been static for months here.
Is president Biden the underdog in this debate? No, I don't think so. The president is debated Donald Trump twice and beat him twice already. The president is really anxious to tell his story to the American people, as he has been doing for the past three and a half years.
Listen, this race is going to be tight. Everybody knows that. It's going to come down to a couple of votes in a couple of really important states. And it's important for the country to see the difference between these two men.
Joe Biden wakes up every day thinking about the American people fighting hard for regular folks, thinking about ways to lift everybody up Donald Trump, wakes up every day pretty much thinking about himself, thinking about his rich friends, and then really thinking about ways to hurt people with the power that he would have if he were the president of the United States again. And I think the president wants to be really clear about the difference between those two that everybody will see again on Thursday. And Mitch, let me ask you, will you at least concede that this is a high reward, high risk strategy for president Biden, given the doubts that Americans have about his ability to serve another four years? Well, listen, everything that we do is high risk.
I mean, every campaign that you have is going to be close. So everything that you do has to work. It has to be thoughtful. But when the American people continue to see Donald Trump do and say the things he's done before, the American people are going to go, I don't want a guy that thinks about himself and his rich friends.
I want somebody that thinks about me that is fighting for myself. So I expect president Biden to do an excellent job just like he did in the last two debates. It really doesn't matter how Donald Trump shows up. If he comes in on hands like he is most of the time or he sits there and is quiet, people are going to know that he's a twice impeached, convicted felon who's been found to have defamed somebody, sexually abused somebody and gone bankrupt six times.
They will always know that. And that is something that the American people have to think about, about the wisdom, the character and the judgment of the person that they're going to appoint to lead America, not only at home, but also to the rest of the world. And as you know, well, top of mind for so many Americans right now, both the economy and inflation, despite limited signs of improvement for president Biden, polls consistently show that voters prefer Mr. Trump over president Biden when it comes to handling the economy.
So how do you change the minds of those Americans who say they are still not feeling the progress that you promote? Well, first of all, those feelings are really important and they're real. But to remind people that when president Biden took over, the country was in the midst, as you know, of COVID, they were in the midst of, as you now know, an insurrection and an economic cataclysmic downfall. President Biden came to the rescue.
He passed four of the biggest domestic pieces of legislation that was seen in our country's history. He's created 15 billion jobs. The lowest unemployment rate that was seen in the last 50 years. But the problem is that all of those benefits are not flowing down to everybody as quickly as possible.
And that's why Joe Biden every day is fighting to save people money by fighting for lower prescription drug costs, fighting for health care, fighting to make sure people have access to housing, fighting to make sure big oil and all of the big companies are not taking profits when they're not supposed to, making sure that everybody has a better chance to support their family. And it's just to be very clear, you just mentioned housing their home prices right now. If at a record high, the medium US home price is $419,000. We're talking about food prices as well.
Those costs are up 20% since the start of the Biden presidency. I want to ask you specifically about the debate. There's going to be no studio audience and a camera and a candidate's microphone is going to be muted when it is not their turn to speak. If the Biden campaign's intention is to show Trump being Trump with all the interruptions that we saw back in that first debate in 2020, does this in some way prove to be an advantage for Donald Trump?
Does it cause a bigger risk for Joe Biden? I don't know. I mean, who knows what Donald Trump is going to do in any minute or any time? I'm going to bet that he's going to talk over the microphone 100 times like he does because he's a bully.
But the best way to fight a bully is to stand up to him and Joe Biden has done that before he's going to do it again. The fact still remains that Donald Trump's presidency was awful. 17 of his cabinet members left and said, please don't elect him again. Three of the people that he's thinking about picking his vice president that on his top list actually asked the American people not to not to listen to Donald Trump because of he was a fraud.
So this is a really clear choice. You can have a great guy that's got great character, great judgment, great wisdom that fights with the American people or you can have a guy that thinks about himself and just wants to hurt everybody who's not for him. Let me ask you a pretty clear choice. And the American people will get it right.
Well, they're going to get a chance to see these two men side by side just four days from now. Let me ask you about a new ad from the Biden campaign that was just released that focuses heavily on Mr. Trump's felony convictions that calls him a quote convicted criminal who is only out for himself. Will Joe Biden make that same argument on the debate stage?
Well, I'll let the president say what he's going to say. But the fact of the matter is that the sky is blue sometimes and Donald Trump is a convicted felon. And the American people have to sit in that for a second. The person who wants to be president has to go sit with his probation officer before he actually goes to the debate.
And so it is just a fact. But it's not just to call Donald Trump a convicted felon. It goes to his behavior and it goes to his character. Remember, he's actually filed bankruptcy six times.
That means that he's not just a bad business guy. It means he's screwed all the small people who actually relied on him for a living. And so the American people are going to see that when you have 17 Catholic members and his chief of staff saying to you, I witnessed this guy, the people who know Donald Trump, the people who know Donald Trump the best like him the least, that's worth taking a moment on to think about whether or not this guy is just going to be better next time at being bad. And to be clear, many Democrats say the President Biden is spending too much time on this particular topic of democracy being at risk.
It's their argument that if you believe that democracy is at risk right now, you're already voting for Joe Biden. Are they wrong? No, they're not wrong. Democracy is really important.
Donald Trump, as you know, led the insurrection and talks about political violence. And if you undo our democratic norms, you don't even have a chance to make a living vote. The point that they're making and it's a good point and it's worthy. And Joe Biden knows this and it's working hard on it.
You need to lower the cost for American citizens. And Joe Biden is fighting for that every day on housing costs, on gas, on groceries. Inflation has come down from 9% to 3% because Joe Biden is working every day. And don't forget, America is now back and work.
We're building things now. We're making products in the United States of America. Stock market is at four all-time highs. But we've got to do more because people are feeling the pain and Joe Biden wants to make that easier for them.
Mitch, let me ask you about this. In the 2020 campaign, you'll remember, after four years of Donald Trump, Joe Biden promised to return the nation to what he called normalcy. And he cast himself as a bridge to new leadership. Here is what he said then.
Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. There's an entire generation of leaders you saw standing behind me. They are the future of this country. So here we are four years later, and Joe Biden is back on the ballot.
What changed? Well, nothing changed. Joe Biden didn't say that he was going to be a one-turn president. He said he was going to lay a strong foundation to build a new generation of leaders.
And my goodness, look at all the incredible democratic leaders we have across the country, but we have governors now that didn't want an office before that are now doing an incredible job. Wes Moore in Maryland, who as you know, was right there when the bridge collapsed and in partnership with the president got that back up and operated. Mitch, there's so many other good Democrats out there. Why not?
We've got the reins over to a different Democrat. This go around where you would take away the concerns about his mental fitness to serve. Well, first of all, Joe Biden doesn't have any concerns about his mental fitness. Nor do I.
I spent an incredible amount of time with Joe Biden. That's just a fade that the other side is pushing. Joe Biden has taken this country from being in a cataclysmic downfall to actually leading the world once again. And he's going to continue to do that.
And he has built up an entire new generation of leaders that will govern this country really well into the future. And so he succeeded massively in both of those things. Let me ask about policy. If I can, Mr.
Trump is expected for reporting to attack President Biden as being weak on immigration, amplifying the examples of undocumented migrants committing crimes. President Biden is losing ground with some Latino voters. How will the president respond to those attacks? Well, first of all, the border is in trouble and it has been for the past 20 or 30 years in this country.
Joe Biden on day one on day one sent the comprehensive immigration reform proposal to Congress. They did nothing with it. Then, as you may recall now, four months ago, after the Congress doing nothing, the president met with the most conservative Republicans in the country. They asked for everything in the border bill the president gave them to him because Donald Trump called and told them not to do it.
That border bill is still waiting challenges. And so we have a long way to go on that. It's a very important issue in making sure that America is safe and secure as one of Joe Biden's top priorities. The question is, why is Joe Biden losing ground with some Latino voters right now?
Well, I don't know. I think that you've got to play this thing out and see actually how it works. Latino voters are like everybody else. They move around from space to face.
You see this with African-American voters as well. The point of the matter is most Americans want to safe and secure country. They want a stable president. They want somebody that is fighting for them.
And at the end of the day, I think they're going to vote for Joe Biden. Mitch Landry, we appreciate your joining us and sharing your perspective. Thank you very much. And when we come back, Republican Governor Kristi Noem of South Dakota joins me here next.
Welcome back former President Trump says he only knows who he will pick as a running mate. He's only one with that information in his mind on Saturday at a gathering of religious conservatives here in Washington. The crowd had some ideas shouting VP VP as our next guest took the stage and joining me now is Republican Governor Kristi Noem of South Dakota Governor Noem. Welcome to meet the press.
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. We heard how president Biden is preparing for the debate from Mitch Landry moments ago. Here's what a group of veterans of presidential debate prep said to Republican strategist Karl Rove about what Donald Trump needs to accomplish.
They said, quote, everyone agreed that Mr. Trump cannot come off as unhinged or enraged. The words rigged election should not pass his lips. He has to keep his cool and cannot make it all about himself.
Is that good advice, Governor? I think it's an important debate. It'll be great opportunity for president Trump to talk about his policies and how his policies when he served as president of this country were good for every single family that lived here. They had more money in their pockets, the grocery prices were down, gas prices were down.
There was a lot more opportunities. So he's going to have a fantastic opportunity to talk about what his policies delivered for the American. So be clear on 2022, you said the personal insults are part of what you did not appreciate about Mr. Trump.
Should he avoid those insults on the debate stage? You know, I don't think that he has to talk about get personal in this debate at all because he's going to have so many good things to talk about in contrast with Joe Biden's policies. Republicans are Joe Biden's policies have just been devastating for the families that live here in this country. Their costs have gone up.
They've had less opportunities and they're just really incredibly challenged right now with trying to afford to put food on the table. So that's really what I think president Trump is planning on focusing on. So let's talk about the economy for a moment. If we can and specifically Mr.
Trump's plans on it, he has talked about a 60% tariff on all Chinese imports. He recently floated an all tariff policy as you know, he calls himself a tariff man, which economists say is effectively a tax on American consumers. So how would sweeping new tariffs help middle and lower income Americans? Well, I believe when he was talking about that, what he was referencing was getting rid of the income tax, which obviously would help every single family in this country, too.
And doing that exchange with some of those Americans, they don't pay the income tax. So when they end up paying more in the tariff, it affected all Americans. I served on the Ways and Means Committee when I was in Congress. And that's the committee that does all tax policy, all trade policy.
And many times when we talk about trade and trade with other countries, and especially with China, we talk about free and fair trade. Unfortunately, we've gotten a lot of free trade. We've never been treated fairly by China, not once. They have manipulated their regulations and hit us at their borders with regulations that take more money out of Americans' pockets.
They've never been fair to us. So President Trump has recognized that many times with countries like China, who do violate our trade agreements all the time, that you have to have some consequences when they do that. And I want to talk specifically about what you have said about tariffs in the past. And the resulting trade war is in Donald Trump's first term.
You said, quote, South Dakota has been devastated by the trade wars that are going on. Do you still agree that more tariffs as Mr. Trump proposes could be devastating to South Dakota's economy? I think it's very important to remember and be specific about when tariffs are utilized.
So I'm a farmer and a rancher. And many times when you talk about tariffs, they do have an impact on us and on our incomes. But if you're using them, we also know very well that when our soybeans hit the border of China, that they hit us with sanitary and phyto-sanitary regulations and reject, our ship loads of soybeans based on things that aren't even in our trade agreements. And we're trying to get you back at how to re-impact on the people in your state.
They are. They are. They are. China is definitely our enemy when it comes to the Communist Party and who has run by that government.
They've never treated us fairly under our trade agreements. And I'm hopeful that President Trump will continue to be strong and fight for the American consumer. Let me ask you about the infrastructure law. It never got passed under President Trump.
It did pass with bipartisan support by President Biden in 2021. It has provided South Dakota with $1.5 billion for more than 250 projects. They include more than $800 million for rose in bridges, $47 million for airports, $100 million to expand broadband access. And it's been a benefit for President Biden's bipartisan infrastructure law.
You know, South Dakota has used the dollars from the federal money to help better the families in our state, but we also have helped our families by opening up our state and by making sure our economy was wrong. We made very different decisions when President Biden was in office than we did when President Trump was. I would say that every day as governor, when Trump was in the White House, I was on offense. I was able to go out there and solve problems for Americans and for people in my state.
With Biden and the White House, now I've been on defense. It's been a consistent fight against regulations and administrative rules and interpretations and even lawsuits from the federal government on what we're doing. So, so be here. You wouldn't give the $1.5 billion back.
So has your state has to go to benefit? We have used those dollars strategically. So you have to agree. I would say that those dollars we used strategically knowing that if we returned those dollars back, they'd be sent to another state and that they would use them.
Some of them we've rejected though. The ones that came with ties to green new energy deals and some regulations and more control for the federal government. We've rejected some of those dollars recognizing that it was just a way for Joe Biden to grab more control of our families. Let me ask you about some of our reporting that shows there are three names now on Donald Trump's shortlist.
The service is vice-presidential. Pick yours is not one of them right now. Are you being vetted? Have you received the paperwork?
The only person who knows who the vice president is going to be? And you see the paperwork though? No, I haven't received any paperwork. No, I haven't.
I've had conversations with the president. And I know that he is the only one who will be making the decisions on who will be his vice president. You said that having a woman on the ticket would help Donald Trump win and he said on this program last year that he liked the concept of running with a woman. Only men as you know are on his shortlist right now, Bergen Vance Rubio.
Would Donald Trump be making a mistake if he does not pick a woman as his running mate? I think he's the best person for the job. He needs to help someone, pick someone that will help him win. And I think that President Trump is in a fantastic position to win this election.
He's strong. He's right on all the policies. He needs to pick somebody that will help him win and make sure that he's back in the White House fighting for America. When I asked you, you wrote in your recent book, No Going Back About Shooting Your Dog Cricket.
Of course, the blowback was intense there. Do you think that sharing that anecdote, whether fairly or unfairly, cost you a shot at being his vice president? You know, I would say that that was a story from 20 years ago about me protecting my children from a vicious animal. So, you know, we've covered that in any mom in those situations when you have an animal that's viciously killing livestock and attacking people.
It's a tough decision. The reason it's in my book is because that book is filled with challenging time is in hard decisions. And it's a story about I think many Americans will be able to read and to learn how they can get engaged with their government again. And to be clear, Republicans have had a lot to say about your story.
The copy dogs are pretty popular from Senator Mike Rounds of your state. I was pretty stunned when I read it said another, why would you do that to a puppy? It's just crazy. Even Donald Trump said about that episode, Governor, that you had a bad week.
Do you think it cost you a shot at being his VP? Did you read the book? We have read a lot of the book. I haven't read it to cover the part of the book.
It's a wonderful book. And if you read the book, a lot of what got reported was not the truth. It was not the truth on the story. So, I would encourage people to read the book and to really find out the truth on why that story is in there and read the other parts of the story about how we're not going back to politics the way that it used to be.
So, it's a little bit ... I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not going to talk about it.
I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. I guess my question is you wrote the book though. So, why was that line ever in your book?
I wrote the book and I hope people will read it. It's a good book about how the American citizen can get involved in their government. Again, and what they can do and how the most powerful person in government is them. It's the people who show up who get engaged in the stories of what they can do to take this country back and how Donald Trump's policies work for the American people.
And I understood that just to put it to Ben once and for all, did you or did you not meet with Kim Jong-un? I am not going to talk about this. Why is that such a difficult one to say publicly? Yes, because I've taken that line out of the book and I'm not going to discuss it.
Okay, but I guess the question is because you wrote it in the book. People just wanted to know whether that was an accurate or an inaccurate statement. Let me ask you about the topic of abortion. One that you focused on heavily at the faith and freedom event last night is a member of Congress.
You voted for federal legislation that defines life as beginning at conception. Donald Trump does not support that. In fact, he now says that he would not take any federal action on abortion. If elected, is that the right call?
I think what's important is that Roe v. Wade, and that decision of it being overturned, has given the decision back to the people at the state level and every state will look different. I think that's appropriate. So I know every state will have different laws and what we need to do is continue to talk about what we can do to help women who are in crisis, what we can do to walk alongside them and support them and love them.
And when people find an unplanned pregnancy, that's a very difficult time for many of them when they're challenged with that. And so that's what we've chosen to do in South Dakota is to make sure we're focused on supporting women and supporting families and making sure that we're taking care of those that find themselves in this type of situation. And as you know on this topic, South Dakota has some of the most restrictive laws in the country. It has no exceptions allowing an abortion in cases of rape and incest.
Donald Trump says he supports those exceptions, said he would not pick a running mate if they do not support those exceptions. Why is he wrong on that? Oh, I wouldn't say that. I would say that every state is going to look different.
And he said that many times over. In fact, you know, in our state, specifically the people decide. The people will decide what the law looks like. I, as the governor, don't get to be the dictator.
You know, we get to talk to people about what the law will be and have that discussion and then every state will look different. We're in the shadow of the Capitol right now just outside the building here on January 6, 2021. You posted a message immediately condemning the violence. You said what's happening in the Capitol right now must stop.
What message is Donald Trump governing, sending by promising to pardon the writers who have been convicted if he wins? I think each of those situations needs to be looked at separately. So you would disagree with him and pardon all of them. I would say that every single one of those cases needs to be looked at specifically.
So let me ask you specifically about that. What I have been very clear about is that we don't want to see another January 6 again. Nobody in this country wants to see another day like that again. And I believe that Donald Trump, when he comes back to the White House and is in charge of this country, we're going to have incredible opportunities to show that people in this country will be safer.
They will have law and order back in our streets. If you look at one of the most violent areas of our country is often Democrat-run cities, sanctuary cities with an open border where we're allowing our streets down 50% since Joe Biden took office. But specifically just to get back to this topic of the writers, is Donald Trump wrong when he says he would pardon all of those who have been convicted in the January 6th attack? Each of those individuals needs to be looked at separately as far as what their role was and what was happening in this situation.
And a hundred 32 of them who admitted to assaulting law enforcement officers, would you agree that they should not be pardoned? I think that every one of those cases needs to be looked at individually. I think the January 6th is what our judicial system is for. It's supposed to be the scales of justice.
He's offering to pardon them. So I guess the question is, would that be based on his prerogative and his decision when he looks at those cases? But what I would say is that we have a nation, we are a nation of laws, and they need to be enforced. And we have a president in the White House today that is ignoring federal law.
He is ignoring federal law and allowing people into this country that are incredibly dangerous. And just this week, I think we had four different people that were attacked or raped or murdered by illegal immigrants that have come in over our open border. And that can not continue to happen. To be clear, as you know well, undocumented immigrants commit crimes at a much lower percentage than Americans do.
But let me ask you a last question about your future, which is regardless of whether you're on the ticket this time, are you considering a presidential run in the future in 2028? Oh my goodness, I'm considering being the governor of South Dakota as long as they'll have me. So I love my job. It's the best job taking care of the people in my state.
And that's my plan. It's a beautiful state. Are you ruling it out? I'm not even thinking about it right now.
So I certainly have a situation where I'm busy at home and we have a lot to get accomplished in South Dakota next several years. Okay. To be clear, at least for now. You're not ruling it out.
Perhaps we'll see you again along the way. Christina, Governor of South Dakota, appreciate you being with us in person. Thank you so much. And when we come back incumbent presidents often struggle in their first debate.
Will President Biden be ready? The panel is next. Welcome back. Good evening.
I'm Chris. I'm Chris Harris and host of the weekend and former Republican Congressman Carlos Cabello of Florida. Appreciate you're all being with us as we look ahead to the debate coming up. Molly, I'll start with you.
President Biden and Mr. Trump, they're going to be facing off in Atlanta just a few days from now. 1,300 days since either of these men have been on a debate stage who is facing more pressure. Who's the pressure on?
When you say like that, it doesn't even feel like that long, right? Look, this debate is hugely consequential. It's the first chance for either candidate to break out of what has essentially been a tie for the past year and try to shake things up I think you have to say that more pressure is on President Biden. We know from polls that voters have more doubts about his age and his ability to do the job.
They want to see him perform in a high pressure situation. As you say, neither of these candidates has debated in many years. And so I think there's going to be a lot of interest on just their respective stamina, their ability to parry questions and speak consistently and comprehensively in addition to what they actually say and what sort of demeanor they are. Well, essentially to synthesize your thoughts into these two-minute sound bites that you make out of one minute, other times, Greg, this is your home state.
What are you going to be watching for? Look, the pressure is on President Biden, in my view as well. There's been a lot of questions about his polls, about his ground game, about enthusiasm, about grassroots energy, and about whether you can do the job. And so there'll be a lot of pressure looking at how he's going to synthesize those answers and also what he can get Donald Trump to say.
You know, I think in a week from now we might be talking more about what he got down. We go to Donald Trump at the saying unless about what President Biden said himself. So when the comments historically have lost the first debate go back to Barack Obama with Mitt Romney back in 2012. What are you hearing about how the Biden campaign is trying to prevent that from happening here?
Well, look, I think first of all, the Biden team will tell you that they, the reason we are here today in this particular space, looking forward to debate this Thursday is because of the challenge that the President issued to the former President, to meet him at the debate stage earlier than usual outside of the Presidential debate commission. And I think that they're setting that they set the terms, and now they know that they have to rise to the occasion. The Biden folks do believe that every time they've asked the President to, you know, meet the moment he has, so they're not concerned about that. I think that from the Trump perspective, though, I think that Donald Trump has a lot of writing on this debate as well.
And I understand why the pressure would be on Joe Biden as the incumbent, but Donald Trump, we haven't seen him on a high-powered debate stage, standing next to his opponent, talking about the issues. We hear him really raging against the machine in front of a camera all the time, but not talking substantively about the issues. Joe Biden regularly speaks substantively about the issues, how would we like to be more so in an interview, frankly, for a lot of us than what we've been seeing. But we know where he stands on the issues, how will he meet the moment as a question, but where does Donald Trump stand on the issues?
What does Donald Trump need to do for a good night? Peter, no self-inflicted wounds. Donald Trump is oftentimes his own worst enemy, as everyone has said here, the pressure's not on him. I mean, there's some pressure, but the heavy pressure's on Joe Biden.
He's the one who has to perform. Donald Trump can actually take Governor Noem's advice and talk about policy, boring things. That's what Donald Trump needs to do in this debate. B.
Vanilla, reduce his risk profile to make some of those Americans who switched to Joe Biden in 2020, who chose Joe Biden in 2020, because they thought Trump was too risky, too chaotic. He has to counter that narrative. But that to me means that pressure is on Donald Trump because he has not seen him do that. That's very hard to do.
Yeah, these are the things that the Allies are saying. It seems like it shouldn't be tricky. We haven't necessarily seen it happen yet. Let me ask you about something we've noticed from the Biden campaign in recent weeks.
They particularly leaned in to referring to Mr. Trump as a convicted criminal, clearly unhinged, as the President said, in recent speeches. Is that the right message to take into this debate? Well, the Biden campaign believes they're doing something very clever here by making this argument that because that Trump being a convicted felon shows you that he's focused more on himself.
And it reminds me actually of a version of the argument that a lot of the Republican, his Republican opponents made in the primary, which was the idea that these legal issues that he faced, I would be a distraction to him. And it didn't work then. Voters did not believe that he'd be too distracted by his personal issues to govern or to be the nominee. It'll be interesting to see if the Biden campaign continues to feel that this is an effective attack.
You know, a lot of Democrats believe that in 2016, Hillary Clinton spent too much time attacking Trump's character and not enough talking about the policies he would implement. But at the same time, there is a feeling that a lot of the disengaged voters that Biden needs to reach don't necessarily know about all this baggage that Trump has. Well, perhaps I think there's also the concern, right, that they want to make sure they know about the economy and what his vision is for the next four years, so many Americans, I'm struck as I travel around the country, Greg, don't even know what Joe Biden has accomplished in the course of his four years. You're a Georgia guy, one of the critical battlegrounds, Donald Trump narrowly lost it last go around this time.
He consistently leads in all the polls. How does Joe Biden appeal to the independent voters there? Well, I think he appeals partly with that argument about the convicted felon. I mean, think about Georgia, Georgia is the backdrop to this debate.
It's also the home of a significant number, small, but significant number of disinfect the Republicans who switched ballots, who switched tickets. And not just in 2020, but also in 2022, and also some of them in 2018. These are voters that are concerned about Donald Trump's background. His history is not a huge number, but enough that swung the election in 2020 and enough that helped Senator Raphael.
We're not going to elect in 2022. How concerning is the fundraising advantage that Joe Biden had? It's now all that's been erased by Donald Trump, a lot of it after his conviction in Manhattan there. How worried should the Biden campaign someone be about that?
I don't think they should be too worried. Look, this debate is going to be a big moment of fundraising opportunity for the president as well. He's coming off the heels of a big fundraiser in LA with everybody from Georgia, Georgia, Julia Roberts. So I think the money will be there.
The question on the table is for the folks that are not tuned in, right, some of those younger voters based Democratic voters. And some of those Diseffective voters as well as Diseffective Republicans. What they see on the debate stage this Thursday make a difference for them. How does an 81-year-old or 78-year-old speak to a 21-year-old in this?
Well, I know some younger people, maybe 21-year-olds, but some mid-20s, early-30 folks who would love to buy a house, but it's very expensive. Who build their rent is too darn high to be clear. And so what is Joe Biden going to do about that if you have the next term? And does Donald Trump have a plan?
I've heard one. Carlos, we have a new reporting today about who the sort of front-runners are as this whittles down the number of VP picks. Doug Burgum, JD Vance, Marco Rubio, sort of the third choice as we are told right now. Who would be the best asset for Mr.
Trump? Well, Peter, apparently Burgum is the one Trump likes the most and feels most comfortable with. Vance would be the next leader of the omega movement. Rubio's got a little residency issue, right, being from the state of Florida.
However, I think that politically he brings the greatest benefits to take it. I want you to think about two groups in particular, Hispanics. They've been migrating towards Republicans. Rubio can accelerate that.
And Greg, you mentioned these Trump skeptics, the Republicans who are weary of Donald Trump. Marco Rubio is a figure that could give those people comfort. The people who are still showing up in primaries voting for Nikki Haley. Those are two groups that Trump really needs to lock down, and Rubio can provide that benefit.
Not, you know, not even mentioning the fact that Rubio would be a great governing partner, too, given his one policy. Greg, does the VP pick matter anymore? I think it does. Look, margins, this is a margin of error race, and the race will be decided in the margins, in states like Georgia, states with just a small number of voters could affect the outcome.
But look, it could also be a countervailing effect, right? Picking a JD Vance could also help energize a Democratic base. It could help get Democratic base voters. Look, if you talk to Democrats in Georgia about Joe Biden's quote-unquote problems with black voters, they don't see it as a battle between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.
They see it as a battle between Joe Biden and the couch, and getting someone on the far right who could energize Democratic base voters could end up helping Joe Biden again. Someone you worked for Kamala Harris, who does she want to debate in this? I think either any of the folks that were named would be, I don't know about four, but I heard someone say that JD Vance be a formidable and concerned opponent for Vice President Harris. I don't think so.
I think she is someone that could take either of them, because the reality is, it's not about who the VP pick is, because your name is the number two on the door, not the first name on the door, it's about what Donald Trump says. And that Vice President, whoever they may be, will have to defend his record and all of the things that he said. And while we last thought, notably all three of those names we've mentioned have been very critical on tape against Donald Trump in the past. You can already see the ads writing themselves.
We play the VP picks voice, attacking the guy at the top of their own ticket. Well, it's hard to find anyone who's been in the Republican Party for more than five minutes, who hasn't said something negative about Donald Trump that they've then had to eat. But look, I think Trump wants a few different things out of his VP pick, and I think to Carlos' point, the decision he makes is going to be a massive statement about what kind of presidency he sees himself potentially having in a second term. Is it about the future of the MAGA movement?
Is it about taking someone like a JD Vance, or is it about a yes man, right, which is something that we know that he wants throughout his administration, is someone who will not say no to him, and will sort of make him feel comfortable indulging all of his instincts. And so I think it's going to tell us really a lot about how he plans to govern it, which are these minutes. Even the last Vice President he had isn't supporting him, and I think that's where he's telling. We got more to talk about when we come back, some of the best advice for a President in a reelection debate that has been learned over decades of experience.
Our Meet the Press Minute is next. Welcome back. The Biden and Trump campaigns have announced similar strategies of head of their debate rematch on Thursday to quote, let Biden be Biden and let Trump be Trump, encouraging the candidates to lean into their authentic personalities. That campaign cliche began with Ronald Reagan back in the 80s.
In 1984, the polling director for President Reagan's reelection campaign joined this broadcast ahead of his debate with Walter Mondale. Four years ago, you advised President Reagan or then candidate Reagan to talk less, to keep his answers brief, to avoid serious mistakes that were plaguing his 80 campaign. What's your advice to Mr. Reagan, President Reagan, about his technique tonight?
Roger, I really didn't give quite that counsel. I said let Reagan be Reagan in essence, and I think that's what we'll see tonight. What is the danger, Mr. Worthland, of the President committing some slip of the tongue, like liberating Poland or confusing Lebanon with Libya?
Is that a worry for you? It isn't a great worry. The problem and the challenge of the debate is that they offer a freestyle exchange, and the President, I've seen debate a number of times. In fact, if it weren't for the debates in the primary of 1980, I'm convinced that Reagan may well have never been nominated.
This broadcast in 1984, and when we come back, Louisiana became the first state to require the Ten Commandments be displayed in every public classroom, renewing the culture war debate over the separation of church and state, more with our panel. Next. Who likes the Ten Commandments, by the way, going up in the schools? They think it's such a bad thing.
I said, has anyone read thee? Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt... I mean, has anybody read this incredible stuff?
It's just incredible. They don't want it to go up. Incredible stuff. That was Donald Trump just yesterday.
Welcome back here. Headline out of Louisiana, Simone, you know this week, becoming the first state in the country to require the Ten Commandments to be displayed publicly in all public classrooms there. Challenges are coming, of course. But what does this say about the strength of the conservative Christian movement in this country right now?
I think the conservative Christian movement is absolutely infused into what has become the mainstream Republican Party. Yesterday on our show that we spoke with Kevin Roberts, head of the Heritage Foundation, and he made some of these very... These points, we talked about Project 2025. And when I asked about the project and was this really tied to Trump, he said this was really about Trumpism, and infusing Trumpism and institutionalizing Trumpism because Reagan was 40 years ago, and I thought that was very talented.
Greg, how crucial are the culture wars this go around? Yeah, look, you've seen similar legislation passed in states like Georgia and other Republican states. Republican-led states. Culture wars have been a recurring theme.
I think it motivates voters for primaries. I don't know that it motivates voters in general elections. I do know that Republican officials in Georgia hope those types of issues help drive up turnout in deep red parts of the state, where turnout was a little underwhelming in 2020. Carlos, as you talk about policy, we're going to be here in some of the back and forth.
I think immigration, reproductive rights are going to be center stage. The economy as well on Thursday night. Mr. Trump is leaning into these attacks on immigration.
The Biden campaign argues that Mr. Trump is a blame for taking that bipartisan border security deal just a few months ago. Mr. Trump is linking a legal immigration with crime right now.
Is that going to stick? Peter, this is a good political strategy. I'm not saying it's honest. I'm not saying it's right.
But certainly, Joe Biden's not going to be able to explain himself out of the immigration mess. I mean, it is a very, very tough issue for them. Just like abortion is for Trump. I mean, I don't care how many times he says each state can do its own thing.
People in these states who are facing some of these tough restrictions are going to blame him. It will be the same with immigration and Biden. And by the way, that includes a lot of Hispanic voters who are upset over the situation at the border, which explains some of them shifting over to President Trump. And I was struck by the latest element.
A poll that shows Donald Trump is preferred by 29% of voters as it relates to immigration. Joe Biden by 22. Neither one of them has this as a runaway right now. I think that is a place that's going to draw a specific vote.
Hispanic vote is certainly up for grabs. And by the way, part of that is explained by this culture wars conversation. A lot of Hispanics are identifying with Republicans in the context of the culture. That's something the Biden campaign is trying to focus on winning back, avoiding more of that erosion.
The president's support with Latino voters, as we just said, is trending in the wrong direction. We've seen Biden try to take some action recently, most recently, the executive action, where he is going to put protections in place to avoid deportation of those undocumented spouses of American citizens if they have been in the country for at least 10 years. Can the Biden folks turn things around on this topic? You know, I've been covering this issue for more than a decade, and my feeling is that Latino voters have become very cynical about the immigration issue especially.
They don't see either party doing anything to help them. They don't see either party securing the border. They don't see either party fixing the broken immigration system. You know, whether you're talking about Latino voters, older voters, younger voters, the center of the electorate is concerned about pocketbook issues and the things that affect them directly.
They're not concerned about some of this culture war stuff. They're not concerned about a lot of it. But you don't really hear either candidate trying to tailor their message to that center of the electorate. We've heard a lot more about trying to distract people and getting them focused on different issues where they think that they are winning.
And so I think, you know, I think Carlos is exactly right, that if President Biden is talking about immigration, he is probably losing that conversation. He is not viewed as strong on that issue. And if Trump is talking about abortion, that is an issue that he loses, no matter how he tries to talk. That's what I want to ask you about abortion because tomorrow marks a two-year anniversary of the overturning of Roe v.
Wade. Clearly this has proven to be a political, a potent political issue for the Democrats. To this point, what impact do you think it will have on the election cycle? We've seen what it did in 2022.
We've seen what it did in some of the early primaries. Will this hold? Will it still be such a big issue come fall? I think it will be a huge issue come fall because this is about a healthcare issue.
You know, the same procedure that is used to, you know, an abortion is used in a miscarriage, right? It's used when there is a complication and the fetus has died within the, it's no longer a viable pregnancy. And in state, after state, across this country, lawmakers are making the decision that, hey, I don't care what your doctor said. This is the law and, again, I don't care what your doctor said.
You cannot get the health care that you need. Now, we are waiting on case one of the Supreme Court to come down. A decision on, again, medical care. In case of an emergency.
In case of emergency. In case of emergency. And it will make a difference. And Carlos, I was struck by Kristi Noem here today.
There is a difference between Kristi Noem and other Republicans. And Donald Trump, on this issue in particular, she supports a federal abortion ban. She supports no exceptions in cases of rape and incest. Donald Trump has said, no, you wouldn't consider somebody on that.
But he still faces a lot of liability on this. He put the three Supreme Court justices in place and overturned Roe v. Well, Peter, but it's even more complex than that because he faces liability and risk on both sides. If Donald Trump starts getting too soft on abortion, we started this conversation talking about Christian conservatives.
Well, I don't know if they'll leave him, but enthusiasm matters in close elections. And if some of those people say, well, Donald Trump really doesn't care about abortion anymore. He's not a staunchly pro-life. He's apologizing for it.
Some of those people might stay home. So he's really got to find the perfect balancing act. Greg, you work for the Land of Journal Constitution. What's the headline when we wake up on Friday morning?
The headline will be still a close race. I don't know if anything will end the dynamics of the race. But I do think that center block will really be important the next few months. Notably, RFK Jr.
Not going to be there. A lot of these folks who are going to be watching. Maybe the ones who say, I don't like either one of these guys. As you said, it's Joe Biden versus the couch for some of them.
It's whether it's a third party or not. A double haters. One of the little term for perfectly normal people. I'm happy with the two tweets.
Exactly. Well, the question is does RFK, not being on the stage, help or hurt him, right? Because as you mentioned, it's possible that both candidates come off looking so bad. But a candidate who's not even there is the chief one to benefit.
This is RFK Jr. worst for Joe Biden for Donald Trump. I mean, I think, I don't care what these polls and the people say conventional wisdom tells me that it is bad for Joe Biden. And I think Democrats know that, which is why there's an entire effort dedicated to tearing him down.
This has been a great panel. Go to NBC at 9 p.m. Eastern on Thursday for coverage of the presidential debate hosted by CNN. Les Rolten, Savannah Guthrie will lead NBC News' special coverage and analysis with Kristen Welker, back from Family Leave.
Tom Yamas and Howie Jackson as well. That's all for today. Thank you for watching. We will be back next week because, of course, if it's Sunday, it's going to be the best.
I'm Craig Malef, cheers. Cheers. I've always been a glass half bowl kind of guy. And now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that way too.
Some really fascinating folks who shared their defining moments, their trials, their challenges, their stories are funny. And if I can't, so I hope you'll join me each week. Who knows? You might just come away with your own glass ass.
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